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blinking8s
26th of September 2004 (Sun), 03:37
ok, so i have been a member here for a while now. during my time I have learned A LOT from some of the members here, but the forum seems to be shifting in the wrong direction. I feel it is becoming more of a walmart photo album than a "photography" forum or community that has anything to do with photography. A camera is a tool of art. We're letting that slip out from under us.

Sorry for the ramble, I posted on this a while back to, just about the critique section not being up to par, half hearted replies like "cool" or "I dont like it". Just curious what others are thinking, cause I know some people on AIM have mentioned POT.net is starting no not be all it can be...

or is digital photography just breaking apart from what photography once was about?

Pekka
26th of September 2004 (Sun), 06:15
Forums are _exactly_ what people make of it.

When digital camera sales go up and up more and more people get a camera without thinking for a second "what photography is", composition, use of light or deeper philosophical ideas behind taking a shot. They just take snapshots, share them and be happy. Marketing has succeeded to make people think more is better and that you should buy a new camera every 9 months just to keep up with megapixels. Photos itself are judged as "this is not sharp" or "this is sharp" - content, composition, feeling and execution are irrelevant.

As the forums grow bigger the ratio between "dedicated photographers" and "casual photographers" grows bigger. Inevitable.

This kind of forum can educate and change way of thinking but they do not educate or change if replies are not given. If someone gives you "a nice photo" reply then by all means ask "what is nice in it and why?". Challenge. Ask more.

PS. What is AIM?

sGu
26th of September 2004 (Sun), 06:20
PS. What is AIM?

AOL Instant Messenger

Persian-Rice
26th of September 2004 (Sun), 18:50
Agree with both arguments.

Its always good to have a good mixture of both levels of users where information can be exchanged and good questions can be asked and answered.

But I sort of agree that just in the past months, that there are a lot more questions then answers. If that makes any sense.

To be honest I have always had the opinion that these board are more of a camera owner/gadget freak board rather then a true photography/photographer board. Correct me if I am wrong, but the least active sections are probably the photography concentrated side of the board where images and techniques are shared, people rather compare their powershot pro's to a 300D.

This is probably why I try to split my time between here and the FM photo board which have a larger concentration on the art of photography rather then the camera behind the image.

I came here as an aspiring pro photographer wanting to learn the ropes and that was covered quite well, but when it came time to move onto the actual photography related part where I could get good insight on the actual art of photography, this, at least in my eyes, isn't the best place to ask it.

It's not a bad thing at all, but I guess to some people, Megapixels are more important then techniques and results. Thats why we have more then 1 photography related board on the net.

ChrisN
27th of September 2004 (Mon), 08:49
Word of warning. Blinking8s, I am not ganging up on you or putting you down in any way. I would like what I have to say be taken as rebuttal rather than an insult as I know that words can be taken any number of ways.

I am going to stand with Pekka on this. Perhaps it is you that is shifting your focus away from the direction that this board is taking.

For me this board represents the learning that I am unable to do on my own. It allows me to feel as though being new or inexperienced does not make me a leper in this community. I work hard to understand my photos as I am sure that many, many people around her do, and being called a "walmart photo album" is quite offensive to people that don't have as much experience as yourself.

When all people do is bitch and moan about newbie questions and different directions it casts an elitist shadow on the community as a whole, something of which I find even in the real world when "talking shop" around town, it does not do anything to forward the forum or make it any better. This is what scares people away from even participating or saying the wrong thing. The "direction" this form has taken is a result of the openness of the people to help out the new people and not make them feel like an idiot for not knowing, it is a result of the understanding that criticism is constructive here and not destructive, positive reinforcement shoves people to try harder and makes them proud of what they have accomplished . Personally I am proud to say that I have not had a negative experience on the board (I have had positive and negative comments that "altered" my perception of the picture that I took, good and bad) and the "help" that I have gained has only proven to further my understanding of the "hobby" (for me).

You got into the hobby (profession, whatever) earlier than most people and have made significant strides towards being a great photographer and now you look down at people for not sharing your vision. (maybe "look down" is a bit harsh, but lack of better term prevails).

I don't mean this to be directed towards you, please don't get that impression, I am only saying this because, well, you brought it up and if this conversation goes further, then wonderful, lets be mature about it and when all else fails agree to disagree, shake hands and enjoy what brought us here in the first place.

Andy_T
27th of September 2004 (Mon), 09:03
ok, so i have been a member here for a while now.

That would be June 2004 - September 2004, right?

A whopping 4 months, that is :lol:

I don't mean to sound condescending here (although I most likely do :wink: ), but I haven't seen the forum 'go down' recently any more than in the last 2 years so that I would consider it any less worthwile to participate in it.

I also don't really feel overwhelmed by hordes of 'casual photographers'. I still remember the fears voiced that the forum might go down with the hordes of 'DRebel owners' :roll:

Surely, there's a lot of people who pop up, pose a single question that might be answered by a 5 minute search over the older posts and do not even stay around long enough to hear the answer.
But that has been the case before, as well. Alas, it's a thing you will have to accept with any internet forum.

On the other side, there's a dedicated bunch of 'regulars' that have a wealth of information, insight and photos to share. I wouldn't want to miss them.

Just my 2c...

Best regards,
Andy

Scottes
27th of September 2004 (Mon), 10:05
That would be June 2004 - September 2004, right?

A whopping 4 months, that is :lol:

Come on Andy, give him a break. In a few days it will be 5 months.
:D

Seriously Blinking, I don't think that 5 months is enough time to notice a trend at all. If you had been here before the upgrade you would have noticed a lot of changes here. But 5 months? Come on now...

5 months ago you were wondering what bokeh was, and now you're saying that this site is going downhill? Seems like you've just learned a few things.

blinking8s
27th of September 2004 (Mon), 11:51
a pretty active 5 months is more than a good effort at being a community member. And I have enough forum experience as a community leader to account for some knowledge of what it takes. I’m not saying I am part of the old school forum crew or one of the great regulars, but I come here a lot, and I research, go out and shoot and learn more all the time. I’ve reached the point where I am comfortable with a camera and my abilities and understanding now, but I find that its hard to get a good critique and learn more beyond the camera's technical side here...constructive criticism is a good thing, and not many people here give it at all. Maybe I post crap and people just want to give me a pat on the back for trying, maybe I don't post enough and my small amounts of work are not enough to learn...but its not a bad thing to be told so...in school when I post design work up for critique, I ask for the other students and teachers to be harsh. I am a big boy, I can handle myself.

I don’t take any offense to what is said in here. I am here to learn and this is by far the most active forum for a canon user I have found. Maybe the forum has no room for expansion and improvement and its reached its peak and place on the www, but talking about it doesn’t hurt at all.

CyberDyneSystems
27th of September 2004 (Mon), 12:29
I would merely caution to all that experience.. whether it be photographic or on this particular forum.. is all very very relative.

To some here on this forum,.. I am a newcomer. (right Andy :wink: )
As far as photography on the whole,.. I am a babe in diapers.

I consider this often when I post. It helps to maintain perspective.

as for this;
Maybe the forum has no room for expansion and improvement and its reached its peak and place on the www, but talking about it doesn’t hurt at all.

We are trying to add new features regularly.. and are allways looking for contributors to write reviews or tutorials.

Care to pitch in? :wink:
Or is it enough to point out the deficencies in others?

ilya
27th of September 2004 (Mon), 13:00
This is for the persian rice post ... also the blinking ... similar to what cds said and pekka said, its what members do that makes the forums. for folks that sit back and *expect* knowledge to come to them and then complain if it doesn't well...

About the art of photography - FM is much more gearheaded then this place. That board has some serious gearheads who are way passionate about gear issues, as theyd o this for a living... this place is a bit more kind to the amateur and user friendly.

So which part of FM gives teaches you about "Art"? Its a lot of technically proficient photographs by people who do it for a living. Save for a few very notable examples (and one notable actually hangs here as well), I don't get that "i'm gonna learn about art today at FM" feeling. Its stock photography by a few talented professionals, lots of really great photos that follow more or less a formula for being a technically proficient shot. Its great to learn about how to take a technically proficient photo over there. And lots of great people as well. But ...

Art is a whole separate topic.

kawter2
27th of September 2004 (Mon), 18:59
This is for the persian rice post ... also the blinking ... similar to what cds said and pekka said, its what members do that makes the forums. for folks that sit back and *expect* knowledge to come to them and then complain if it doesn't well...

About the art of photography - FM is much more gearheaded then this place. That board has some serious gearheads who are way passionate about gear issues, as theyd o this for a living... this place is a bit more kind to the amateur and user friendly.

So which part of FM gives teaches you about "Art"? Its a lot of technically proficient photographs by people who do it for a living. Save for a few very notable examples (and one notable actually hangs here as well), I don't get that "i'm gonna learn about art today at FM" feeling. Its stock photography by a few talented professionals, lots of really great photos that follow more or less a formula for being a technically proficient shot. Its great to learn about how to take a technically proficient photo over there. And lots of great people as well. But ...

Art is a whole separate topic.

I am a relative n00b to these forums, but I see where blink is comming from. I try to equal my time between here and FMforums.. but my work blocks FM's boards and I can only post here.


My analysis of the areas that i have frequented:
Canon EOS digital cameras: Great forum!!! I think there is a great ballance between tech an technique. Closely paralells the FM 20d,10d,d30,d60 forum



Marketplace: prety striaght forward, good resource

Share Photos: Two thumbs down.. I think the problems are that ALL the posting the entire gamut. I would sugest splitting this up into themes, animals, art,still life, casual shooter, trying to be a pro etc. Just like the tech section is broken off to avoid sifting through posts that are irrelevant.. same would help with photos

Critique Corner: It is ok, and then it isn't but this is inevitable. only problem is that sometimes people post like the pic is in the "share" category with responses such as cool!! to me it seems like an oppertunity to spam up their post count. I encourage people to keep there one phrase coments to thereselves unless they really wnat to GIVE FEEDBACK

Cornering the Proslooks promising, it moves a little slower so I will reserve my comments untill i can make a better opinion




Thanks for hearing my perspective

blinking8s
27th of September 2004 (Mon), 22:16
and to all reading, dont take the title as something negative, my retarded mine was playing off "round and round we go" im not saying the forums are getting bad, just...not up to their potential

i agree kawter...