Calumet Genesis kits?

[MrChad]

I have a small livingroom but a fairly high large white ceiling. I was thinking of buying a nice neutral back drop and nice pair of lower wattage starter strobes w. stands.

I was thinking of getting some AlienBees, however, anyone have any opinion of the Calumet Genesis kits? Clearly targeted at the beginner but the kits looked to have everything one would need to get started.

Having a fairly small room for now I was thinking of getting the 200w twin kit. I also liked the idea that the Genesis lights can fit some Elinchrome accessories.

[swalter]

I was looking for reviews as well, but haven't found any. They certainly look good on paper.

http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CF0502K1/

-Scott

[Atomic79]

I just got email from Calumet announcing these today so they are really new. Unless they are a repackage of some other light it's going to be a little bit before reviews start popping up.

After going to both Calumet's and Elinchrome's sites and doing some image comparisons I think the Genesis200 is a repackage of the D-Lite2.

[elwood58]

The Elinchrome D-Lite2s sell for $300 each. If this is really a repackage of their Strobe, it is a very good deal. The dish assembly looks different though, so I could not tell if accessories are cross compatible.

[chris sorensen]

I was in Calumet today and played with these. Pretty darn nice for the price. Digital adjustment, audible beep on recycle, seemed fairly sturdy. Tested the recycle time on min to max and was pretty much in line with the 1-3 second the specs say. Which is higher than the .8 seconds the specs for the DLite 2 says, so maybe they're not rebadges. They did say they take Elinchrom accessories.

[Cars0n]

These are ridiculously tempting. I've been toying with the idea of studio lights and even though I don't think I'm quite ready, I'm almost ready to jump on these just to play with.

[magicmikey]

The only problem I see is that the accessories for Elinchrome strobes, which these use, are more expensive than those of Alienbees. Other than that, they look quite nice.

Michael

[nobleatelier]

Hi.
This is my first post here.

I just picked up a Genesis 2 kit last night. Haven't had a chance to pop it yet, but initial impressions: it is a very robust kit for an entry level kit. In fact, it really is on the higher end of an entry level kit, akin to a prosumer kit, if you will.

The light stand is a very sturdy stand, telescoping to 10 feet. It is much beefier than the thin Impact stands that come with some kits. The twist knobs are substantial, and you don't get the impression that you'd strip the screw threads if you turn too hard.

The umbrella is a convertible 45" brolly. It feels stable and of decent material. It comes with a nice sheath to put it in.

Finally, the strobe head itself. Well made, nice form factor, solid build. Digital readout, push buttons, audible alerts. The modeling light and flash tubes are user replaceable. The strobe uses Elinchrom mounts. If you want to use softboxes you'd have to purchase a Speedring and softbox. They don't come together, unfortunately. You can us Calumet softboxes with it, as well.

So, MrChad, I think you'd have a very capable setup on your hands. In a small room you might have too much power on your hands. I was using two 100 watt-second strobes in softboxes turned down to about 1/2 and 1/4 power. Never full power, and I used a small bedroom for shooting. Then I only used one and had enough light spill onto my background. Now I have the 200 watt-second kit. I know I won't be using this at full power.

[nobleatelier]

The Elinchrome D-Lite2s sell for $300 each. If this is really a repackage of their Strobe, it is a very good deal. The dish assembly looks different though, so I could not tell if accessories are cross compatible.

Yes, they are a repackage of the Elinchrom D-Lite series. I researched them to purchase a while ago, but decided on the Calumet Travelites. I found out about the Genesis series while on hold about to buy a Travelite and then reconsidered in order to research the Genesis.

[steveathome]

These are fan cooled the D-Lites are not.

Edit: for the price they look too good to be true, looks like a possible great starter kit.

[jptsr1]

im trying to decide between these and the beginner bee kit. cant find any reviews though.

J.

[RichNY]

The D-Lites are much nicer than the Alien Bees. For one they are digital. They are also color consistent from top to bottom of the scale, solidly built, and have pop to pop consistency.

TMRdesign and I spent 3 hours in the B&H lighting department today and came away knowing that these models are the ideal alternative to Alien Bees for people wanting a better light at low cost.

[chris sorensen]

these models are the ideal alternative to Alien Bees for people wanting a better light at low cost.


Are you referring to the D-Lites or the Calumet Genesis? Or both?

[MrChad]

Sounds like these may become the new shiz-nitz in cheapy home lights...sweet.

[chammer2]

I am new to these light kits and am also looking at the Genesis kit. I have questions on basic setup. Are these lights continuous? It has a 5 volt sync cord that I'm assuming is used when using wirelessly (does that change the continuous lighting?). Does the cord connect to the camera and then both lights? It has a built in photo cell that allows wirelesss flash syncronization. What accessories are required to allow that? Sorry if these questions are so basic.

[JMHPhotography]

I know they're not affliated with them, but the Genesis lights resemble Photogenics Studiomax III lights more than they do the ElinChrom.

[jptsr1]

I wish there was a review somewhere. I would like to be able to compare them to the AB's. Clumet certainly has AB beat on price but im wondering what the quality is like?

J.

http://www.calumetphoto.com/ctl?ac.ui.pn=search.Search&cat1=105&cat2=151&query=Genesis

[nobleatelier]

I am new to these light kits and am also looking at the Genesis kit. I have questions on basic setup. Are these lights continuous? It has a 5 volt sync cord that I'm assuming is used when using wirelessly (does that change the continuous lighting?). Does the cord connect to the camera and then both lights? It has a built in photo cell that allows wirelesss flash syncronization. What accessories are required to allow that? Sorry if these questions are so basic.

These are not continuous lights: they are strobes. They have a modeling light, which is continuous.

Regarding the photocell, you can use your pop-up flash or speedlight to trigger the Genesis strobes. Doing that will allow you to bypass sync cords.

Noble

[mbellot]

These are not continuous lights: they are strobes. They have a modeling light, which is continuous.

Regarding the photocell, you can use your pop-up flash or speedlight to trigger the Genesis strobes. Doing that will allow you to bypass sync cords.

Noble

You can only use your pop-up if you're going to use FEL and allow the strobes to recycle before taking the actual picture, otherwise the ETTL pre-flash will discharge the strobes and you'll be left with a very dark picture.

[kato1]

These look like awesome value for money. Wish we could get them in the UK, particularly at that price!

[steveathome]

These look like awesome value for money. Wish we could get them in the UK, particularly at that price!

It might be worth contacting Calumet UK, you never know.

[kato1]

I think if they brought a set into the UK for me they would add a substantial whack onto the price. Checked their website yesterday and there was no sign of them being available off the shelf.

They seem to be very well specified for the money and I'd love to have a set of strobes. At $319 it would be very hard to resist a set to play with.

Anyone taken some shots with them that they can post?

[steveathome]

IMHO the D-Lites are an excellent entry level flash, maybe not so robust as some but on spec and performance they hold up against some of the more expensive gear.
If these "Genesis kits" are anything like them plus they have fan cooling, it may even be worth the extra £££.

Somehow though I get the feeling these are for the US only :(

[EOSBoy]

Hey there d00dz. Just found this forum today, pretty awesome.
I'm thinking about getting the kit. I'm super new to studio lighting and what not. (super newb question) About triggering the strobes...What would I need to do so? I've been spending days researching lenses and the best out of my camera that I missed out on one of the most important aspects of photography, lighting...
It's kind of embarrassing really. :cool:
I also own a 430EX Speed Light, what would I need to trigger it as a slave without killing my wallet? Meaning I'd have to go wired.

Thanks in advanced, this is the only newb question I'll be asking.
:o

[swalter]

It depends on what camera you have for wired. If you have a 20D/30D/40D or higher, then you can just plug in a "PC" cord from your camera to one of the lights and set the other to trigger off of the optical slave. Cables are cheap ($10-15) and readily available. If you have a XT, XTi, then you'll need a hotshoe to PC adapter, which is also relatively cheap (around $15).

Alternately, you could put both of them on optical slave and trigger them with your 430EX. I've never done this, but I've heard varying degrees of success with this method. You also run the risk of having your flash be bright enough to affect the exposure, which you generally don't want to do.

-Scott

[EOSBoy]

Oh ok, I see durr! Thanks, I looked at the Canon camera off shoe 2 and it's fairly short and I suppose made for bracketing purposes, not to mention their low reviews.
I have EOS 350D (XT) so I do need a hot shoe to pc adapter. The kit comes with 2 strobes, would I need to do some sort of modification? Or I remember somewhere there was a 'Y' cord. I can't recall.

So optically triggering the lights means, if they sense the flash, they'll go off as well? If so that's nifty, and I would imagine making the image outcome over exposed.

[nobleatelier]

You can only use your pop-up if you're going to use FEL and allow the strobes to recycle before taking the actual picture, otherwise the ETTL pre-flash will discharge the strobes and you'll be left with a very dark picture.

Yes, indeed. BTW, with the speedlight I keep it on manual and turn it down to 1/64th power. I angle the head elsewhere and the photocell can still see it.

Thx for the point clarification.

[reelly1]

Has anyone been able to find anything on these Genesis lights?? I have been to their site and looked at them but was wondering in the last few days has anyone been able to find any reviews?? I was looking at the Photogenics StudioMaxIII or the Alien Bees now I have to throw these things in the mix. Why should shopping for something be so difficult:)

I was looking at this kit and then adding one more light.
http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CF0514K1/features

[magicmikey]

I have searched and searched and found no reviews on the Genesis lights. It looks like they are too new. It will likely be a while before you'll start to see reviews.

Michael

[jptsr1]

I have searched and searched and found no reviews on the Genesis lights. It looks like they are too new. It will likely be a while before you'll start to see reviews.

Michael

same here. i think im gonna take a shot on the 400 two light kit. i don't know much about strobes but i went down to Calumet and fondled one. it felt pretty solid (for whatever that's worth). mostly i like the price and the fact that the store is 15min from my house rather than having to deal with them through the mail.

J.

[magicmikey]

same here. i think im gonna take a shot on the 400 two light kit. i don't know much about strobes but i went down to Calumet and fondled one. it felt pretty solid (for whatever that's worth). mostly i like the price and the fact that the store is 15min from my house rather than having to deal with them through the mail.

J.

Please let us know what you think of it. You can have the first review of the Genesis strobes on POTN!:D

[nobleatelier]

Please let us know what you think of it. You can have the first review of the Genesis strobes on POTN!:D

Looks like I was already the first :D

"Hi.
This is my first post here.

I just picked up a Genesis 2 kit last night. Haven't had a chance to pop it yet, but initial impressions: it is a very robust kit for an entry level kit. In fact, it really is on the higher end of an entry level kit, akin to a prosumer kit, if you will.

The light stand is a very sturdy stand, telescoping to 10 feet. It is much beefier than the thin Impact stands that come with some kits. The twist knobs are substantial, and you don't get the impression that you'd strip the screw threads if you turn too hard.

The umbrella is a convertible 45" brolly. It feels stable and of decent material. It comes with a nice sheath to put it in.

Finally, the strobe head itself. Well made, nice form factor, solid build. Digital readout, push buttons, audible alerts. The modeling light and flash tubes are user replaceable. The strobe uses Elinchrom mounts. If you want to use softboxes you'd have to purchase a Speedring and softbox. They don't come together, unfortunately. You can us Calumet softboxes with it, as well.

So, MrChad, I think you'd have a very capable setup on your hands. In a small room you might have too much power on your hands. I was using two 100 watt-second strobes in softboxes turned down to about 1/2 and 1/4 power. Never full power, and I used a small bedroom for shooting. Then I only used one and had enough light spill onto my background. Now I have the 200 watt-second kit. I know I won't be using this at full power."



I did a quick test of these and so far the thing that impresses me the most is the color temperature consistency. It stays, irrespective of the power setting that you use. My other strobes warmed up significantly when you powered down. When you power down the system automatically dumps the previous settings (it'll pop, so make sure you're not looking at it!)

I'm getting my second light on Friday. It's been a madhouse at Calumet. They apparently didn't realize how good the lights are. They've sold out several times. I went to get mine on Tuesday and they sold the last one while I was on the phone putting mine on hold. When I got to the store I found out that it was gone. They ordered some more and they should be in the store today...

Noble

[magicmikey]

Good description of the physical aspects of the strobe kit. I'd like to hear more about what it's like to shoot with them.

Michael

[steveathome]

I just picked up a Genesis 2 kit last night. Haven't had a chance to pop it yet

Welcome to the forum.

Mmmmmm, Looks like the Bee's are maybe going to have some strong competition.

I look forward to your first set of shots from them.

[MrChad]

I have some friends coming to town next weekend for the autoshow.

My other buddy has a pair of Alien bee strobes either 400w or 800w. Sounds like I should have him bring them along, and maybe I'll head down to Calument for a nice 2 light kit and we can do a nice sidb-by-side comparison...

[jptsr1]

Looks like I was already the first :D

"Hi.
This is my first post here.

I just picked up a Genesis 2 kit last night. Haven't had a chance to pop it yet, but initial impressions: it is a very robust kit for an entry level kit. In fact, it really is on the higher end of an entry level kit, akin to a prosumer kit, if you will.

The light stand is a very sturdy stand, telescoping to 10 feet. It is much beefier than the thin Impact stands that come with some kits. The twist knobs are substantial, and you don't get the impression that you'd strip the screw threads if you turn too hard.

The umbrella is a convertible 45" brolly. It feels stable and of decent material. It comes with a nice sheath to put it in.

Finally, the strobe head itself. Well made, nice form factor, solid build. Digital readout, push buttons, audible alerts. The modeling light and flash tubes are user replaceable. The strobe uses Elinchrom mounts. If you want to use softboxes you'd have to purchase a Speedring and softbox. They don't come together, unfortunately. You can us Calumet softboxes with it, as well.

So, MrChad, I think you'd have a very capable setup on your hands. In a small room you might have too much power on your hands. I was using two 100 watt-second strobes in softboxes turned down to about 1/2 and 1/4 power. Never full power, and I used a small bedroom for shooting. Then I only used one and had enough light spill onto my background. Now I have the 200 watt-second kit. I know I won't be using this at full power."



I did a quick test of these and so far the thing that impresses me the most is the color temperature consistency. It stays, irrespective of the power setting that you use. My other strobes warmed up significantly when you powered down. When you power down the system automatically dumps the previous settings (it'll pop, so make sure you're not looking at it!)

I'm getting my second light on Friday. It's been a madhouse at Calumet. They apparently didn't realize how good the lights are. They've sold out several times. I went to get mine on Tuesday and they sold the last one while I was on the phone putting mine on hold. When I got to the store I found out that it was gone. They ordered some more and they should be in the store today...

Noble

Thanks for the description. I'll be waiting with all the others to hear your opinion once you get a chance to use them. Welcome to the forum!

J.

[EOSBoy]

I got my biz partner to pick up a set a few days ago. I'll post the pics to see how they turned out.

[kato1]

Just priced up what it would cost to have a set exported to the UK and it made the cost around about $630 !!!!

I'll have to give them a mis. The transport costs to the UK doubled the price and then there could be import taxes to pay on them as well.

How I wished I lived in the USA. We get fleeced all the time here.

[steveathome]

Just priced up what it would cost to have a set exported to the UK and it made the cost around about $630 !!!!

I'll have to give them a mis. The transport costs to the UK doubled the price and then there could be import taxes to pay on them as well.

How I wished I lived in the USA. We get fleeced all the time here.


I'd wait for some reviews before taking giant steps like that. Could also be a big problem for you if they go faulty.

Why not have a look at the Elinchrom D-Lites, I have three, I think they are excellent.

[kato1]

I've been looking at the Elinchrom 200 Watt D-Lites also. Quit a bit more expensive than the Genesis would have been, but I do take on board your point regarding the possibility of the Genesis heads developing a fault.

[slimninj4]

The kit for the one light 400 is the same as the head unit. Better deal and if you have the other stuff (stand, umbrella) could sell that on ebay or craigslist. Im really looking into get this unit.

[jgettis]

Bought the 400 kit yesterday. Have not taken any photos but played with it until I could almost see through my eye lids. The photocell seems to be real sensitve and has a settings of off, fire on first flash, fire on second flash and fire on third flash. Power settings range 10-60 with each increase being one stop acording to my flash meter. John

[steveathome]

Bought the 400 kit yesterday. Have not taken any photos but played with it until I could almost see through my eye lids. The photocell seems to be real sensitve and has a settings of off, fire on first flash, fire on second flash and fire on third flash. Power settings range 10-60 with each increase being one stop acording to my flash meter. John

Are there no intermediate power settings between the full stops?

[EOSBoy]

I have the 200 watt kit and so far so good!

[claybuster]

Why can't I find the 400's on the site? Help please. I would be interested in heads only i have stands and everything else.
Mike

[jptsr1]

Why can't I find the 400's on the site? Help please. I would be interested in heads only i have stands and everything else.
Mike

http://www.calumetphoto.com/ctl?ac.ui.pn=search.Search&query=genisis

J.

[claybuster]

http://www.calumetphoto.com/ctl?ac.ui.pn=search.Search&query=genisis

J.
Thanks!

[claybuster]

I was ready to order some Aien bee 800's But now I guess I'll wait to see what the outcome and reports are on these. I would get the genesis 400's .
Mike

[reelly1]

We are sitting on ready waiting for some more reviews! I am real interested but still nervous to hit the "checkout" button.

Has anybody checked the consistency yet??

[EOSBoy]

We are sitting on ready waiting for some more reviews! I am real interested but still nervous to hit the "checkout" button.

Has anybody checked the consistency yet??
As far as consistency goes, I have yet to notice anything...
Well because I am focusing on the subject on hand and so far my pictures turned out pretty well.
I'm using the 200 watt kit and it's pretty awesome for the price.
Here are some sample pics I took earlier tonight...One light was set to 1/4 power and the other 1/2.

[jptsr1]

nice! the others on your flickr page look good as well. i think the 400 2 light kit is definitely in my future.

J.

[EOSBoy]

nice! the others on your flickr page look good as well. i think the 400 2 light kit is definitely in my future.

J.
;D Thanks! Post some pics if you get the 400!

[dou_b_14]

does anyone know which battery packs will work with these lights? I shoot on location a lot and use my speedlights, but im starting to need a little more light...i really want to order these for my location shoots, but i need a portable battery. thanks

[tetrode]

Hi, all. I'm a long-time lurker who's uncloaking because I just ordered the Genesis 200 2-light kit from Calumet and would like to pose a question. First of all, the Genesis lights are not re-badged Elinchrom D-lites. The fellow I just spoke with at Calumet said they are made in Asia to Calumet specs and the only relationship to Elinchrom lights is the shared accessory mount. Why would they have chosen to be Elinchrom compatible rather than Calumet/Bowens compatible? That in itself doesn't make a lot of sense to me but that's not my question. Here goes: What would be a good economical 2' X 2' (or so) softbox solution for the Genesis lights? Elinchrom does offer small "economy" softboxes for their D-lites but the Calumet rep could not guarantee compatibility with the Genesis lites. Has anyone actually tried to mount a softbox yet? It would be nice if someone would come up with an Alien Bees-to-Genesis adapter ring since Calumet is apparently disinclined at this time to flesh out the light modifier accesory range for the Genesis units.

Any suggestions or recommendations would be much appreciated.

Dave F.

[slimninj4]

I sent an email to the customer service asking some questions. I will put up here when I get a reply.
tetrode, you can get the Calumet Elinchrom / Genesis Speedring Kit and that should fit any of the gear they have. Its 80$,

[slimninj4]

OK I got a reply back. I asked about the speedrings. The answer is..
e unit is set for Elinchrom accessories, so you will need an Elinchrom speedring.
So what ever can connec tto the elinchrom speedring is what you can use.

As for setting the power you can go down to 1/5 power.
The outlet requirements is a three prong grounded plug.

The replied to me within 2 hours of sending the questions.

Right now I am inclined to get this 400ws one line kit over an AB800 kit.

[tetrode]

The problem is that Elinchrom speed rings and light modifiers are awfully pricey. Each speed ring is almost 1/2 the cost of one Genesis 200. That's why I'm looking for alternatives. Elinchrom-compatible speed rings for SP Systems softboxes, for example, are only about $12. The Lastolite EZYbox is an interesting and appealing take on soft boxes and their Elinchrom speed ring runs about $25. Then there's also the Westcott Apollo (and Apollo Mono) which uses an umbrella-style shaft mount and, therefore, doesn't require a dedicated speed ring at all. Finally, there are the Elinchrom Portalite 25" x 25" softboxes for the D-Lites. These run about $105 (B&H) and supposedly include Elinchrom speed rings. So, there do appear to be a few options. I guess I'll have to take a trip down to B&H to look them over first-hand.

My Genesis 200 2-light kit was supposed to be delivered tomorrow. I see UPS has just rescheduled for Friday. Bummer.

[wilvoeka]

I need correct some wrong thinking here.

Just because the light uses a Elenchrome speedring doesnt mean you have to use Elenchroma modifiers.

The speedring is only brand specific to the end that attaches to the flash(Inner mount), the modifier side(Outer mount) is the same regardless of brand.

You can use any brand of softbox you want.

Example.

I have some Novatron flashes, I only need to have a Novatron mount speedring. I can use Alien Bee, Elenchrome, Westcott, Etc softboxes on that ring. The only differance in modifier sides of speed rings is the ones for Octoboxes, but even thos are available to use both standard and Octo mounts in one.

There are a few oddball brands out there that use tere own specific modifier mounts.

As for snoots and grids, there are 6" and 7" reflectors available for the Genesis, so just about any of the Elenchrome or other brand grids and snoots should fit, 7" is going to be the most common, so if you buy some 7" reflectors you can find alot of accesories for them.

Heres a page at B&H showing some Grids...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=search&A=search&Q=&sb=bs%2Cupper%28ds%29&sq=asc&ac=&bsi=&bhs=t&ci=1229&shs=&at=Brand_Delta&basicSubmit=Submit+Query

[slivr]

Since a few of you in this thread have obtained one or the other of these Genesis kits (either the 200w/s or 400w/s), can you clarify whether the power can be changed in 1/10th-stop increments like so many other digital strobes ... or is it just in full f-stop changes? One of the comments above sounded like it's limited to full f-stop changes.

Thanks for clarifying.

[slimninj4]

Thanks Wil that is what I was trying to convey. Can use the Eli speed ring with any softbox device.

[slivr]

I contacted Calumet and they confirmed the digital power settings in these Genesis lights allow for 1/10th increments. Just ordered a 400w/s 2-Lite kit with some accessories. Woo Hooo! Great price for the features and power.

With ground shipping ... I have to wait until next Wednesday to play with them. :(

[wilvoeka]

Im really thinking of getting a set also, Im curious if they will work the the Vagabond II. They would make a great mobile kit.

[slimninj4]

Great slivr. Please give us a full review with pics :-)

Enjoy your new products.

[claybuster]

I can't wait to see some reviews. I was just ready to order some alien bees. Now its "TO BEE OR NOT TO BEE" thats the question.:D
Mike

[slivr]

Claybuster -
I've had a shopping cart ready to submit at the Alien Bee's site on two separate occasions over the last week, but hesitated both times. Then I examined these new Genesis lites and had to dive in. My deciding factors were:
a. Genesis provides digital settings -vs- Bee's analog dials
b. Genesis provides 400w/s -vs AB's 320w/s (B800 unit)
c. Two combination brolly/reflector umbrellas -vs- Bee's single brolly / single reflector umbrella
d. Genesis $569 kit -vs- Alien Bee $857 DigiBee kit (upgraded to B800 lights)
e. Stand quality (subjective - but appear stronger in pictures to me)

Here's where the Alien Bee Package wins out (in my opinion):
1. AB Speed Rings definitely less expensive
2. AB Softboxes less expensive and include speed rings
3. DigiBee kit includes radio tx/rx

All in all - I still believe the Bees are an outstanding product and price, but I went for more power/less cost with the Genesis and hope I'm proved right. Bought a speed ring as well, anticipating I'll pick up a large soft box shortly.

[davidseaton]

devil's advocate......

Alien bees B400 + speed ring: $255
(replacement flash tubes = $35)

Genesis 200ws+ speedring: $240
(replacement tubes = $70)


OK I just noticed the package from calumet (that includes stand and brolly) is the same price so maybe this tips it in their favor....

[claybuster]

I just need the heads,I have stands and umbrellas. I want to get the 400ws heads ,YIKES $299.00 for just the heads! I wish I needed the kits. I know some of you are going to say get the kits and sell what you have extra of,but I don't want to go through the hassle like ebay and shipping and all that good stuff:o
Mike

[slimninj4]

I just need the heads,I have stands and umbrellas. I want to get the 400ws heads ,YIKES $299.00 for just the heads! I wish I needed the kits. I know some of you are going to say get the kits and sell what you have extra of,but I don't want to go through the hassle like ebay and shipping and all that good stuff:o
Mike


I dont understand. AB800 cost $279.95 for just the heads. So that is a 20$ difference for more power and digital settings. For the same price you get a kit and can have back ups.

[slivr]

Unless I mis-read Calumet's product list regarding the Genesis lights and Genesis kits - they're the same price whether you buy the single head ... or the 1-light kit. Then you get a stand, umbrella, etc. Makes no sense to buy the light alone then. Probably their marketing strategy to invest people into Calumet gear. The stand and umbrella you'd think would add $80-$100 to the kit price. Good deal for the buyer!

[shooterman]

Anyone know the wattage of the modeling light for the 200ws strobes?

[hudge]

Anyone know the wattage of the modeling light for the 200ws strobes?

I believe it is 150w....My lights are at home so I can't double check right now. I'll post a correction if needed. HTH.

[hawk911]

I believe it is 150w....My lights are at home so I can't double check right now. I'll post a correction if needed. HTH.

Randy, click on specifications on the left side. Modeling light is 150w

[wilvoeka]

I just need the heads,I have stands and umbrellas. I want to get the 400ws heads ,YIKES $299.00 for just the heads! I wish I needed the kits. I know some of you are going to say get the kits and sell what you have extra of,but I don't want to go through the hassle like ebay and shipping and all that good stuff:o
Mike

Do you have a backdrop support?

If not then this kits light stands can be used as a backdrop support, al you would need is a crossbar for about $15.

[shooterman]

Randy, click on specifications on the left side. Modeling light is 150w
Ahh, thanks Geoff. I didn't see that link.
hudge, you are correct, it is 150w.
I think I'll give my local Calumet a call and if they have a set I'll go and pick up the 200ws kit for $319.00 tomorrow. If they are any good, that's a steal.

[hawk911]

Let us know how they are; the 400w 2 light kit sure seems like the cat's meow for the $$

[shooterman]

Let us know how they are; the 400w 2 light kit sure seems like the cat's meow for the $$
Hey, hey, now...don't be putting any thoughts in my head. :)
Actually I think I would want the 400ws 2 light kit. I forgot that my AB is a B800. I was thinking it was a B400. I would want something in the similar power range as my B800. So the 400ws kit is it. My wife will kill me.

[hawk911]

just take nice pictures of her, and all will be forgiven.

[claybuster]

Do you have a backdrop support?

If not then this kits light stands can be used as a backdrop support, al you would need is a crossbar for about $15.
YESSS! I mean NO,I don't have a background set. Great idea ! Thanks! I will get the 400 two light kit and get a cross bar. Only thing...Why didn't I think of that? Again thanks for the idea.
Mike

[claybuster]

Does anyone know if they have any promotional coupons(codes) On the light kits?
Mike

[claybuster]

Does anyone have any more input on these lights? I'm interested in getting the 400ws two light kit but would like to hear more about these lights. If I don't go with the calumets I will get the alien bees ,two of the ab800's. I need to hear a little more before I pull the trigger.
Mike

[slivr]

Sorry Claybuster - I can't give you any more info until mine arrive on Wednesday of this week, but will provide detailed feedback at that time. I'm anxious to see how they compare against AB's. I wish someone that already had them would weigh in. But the info available on Calumet's site is pretty limited, and no comparisans by users out there yet. Just checked UPS and confirmed they're on the way from the OEM shipping point in Illinois. I just chose UPS ground since expedited delivery was another $170.

[claybuster]

Sorry Claybuster - I can't give you any more info until mine arrive on Wednesday of this week, but will provide detailed feedback at that time. I'm anxious to see how they compare against AB's. I wish someone that already had them would weigh in. But the info available on Calumet's site is pretty limited, and no comparisans by users out there yet. Just checked UPS and confirmed they're on the way from the OEM shipping point in Illinois. I just chose UPS ground since expedited delivery was another $170.
Thanks! I guess I need to be patient . Most of the time while waiting I just get more confused about what to get,or when I do decide the price has gone up or "out of stock":lol: I'll just sit this one out for awhile and see what you and others have to say . Hope you get everything in good shape and you can give us a quick:D and accurate review.
Mike

[MrChad]

I picked up a pair of the 200s from the Oakbrook, IL store as the store in downtown Chicago was out of stock when I stopped down.

The stands are pretty nice, not insanely tripod heavy but more then up to the job of supporting the heads. The umbrellas are fairly nice, you can remove the black cover to shoot through if need be.

Power settings go from 10 - 60 in 01 increments. Modeling light can be set to full or proportional power. Audible, test, and freq. adj. (1,2,3) are the other buttons.

The units themselves are fairly good size, pictures don't quite do them justice online. The plastic of the case is very high grade, a tick soft and a bit grippy in texture. The lights themselves have built in umbrella holders, the shades themselves have a pass thru hole for the umbrellas.

Units can fire via camera(s) on-board flash as well as the PC-sync cable that is included.

Dragulaz would be better able to comment about the quality vs. AlienBees. He went with me to pick up the strobes.

But for $319 for a pair of the 200w strobes you are getting a very decent strobe for the money. Keep in mind, you don't get a case for travel, or a background setup either as some other kits may include.

The heads themselves are smaller then the AlienBees from what I can see, but you do get the plus of having a kit compatible with Elinchrome/Calumet accessories - which is clearly where the money must be for Calument in this deal :)

[claybuster]

I picked up a pair of the 200s from the Oakbrook, IL store as the store in downtown Chicago was out of stock when I stopped down.

The stands are pretty nice, not insanely tripod heavy but more then up to the job of supporting the heads. The umbrellas are fairly nice, you can remove the black cover to shoot through if need be.

Power settings go from 10 - 60 in 01 increments. Modeling light can be set to full or proportional power. Audible, test, and freq. adj. (1,2,3) are the other buttons.

The units themselves are fairly good size, pictures don't quite do them justice online. The plastic of the case is very high grade, a tick soft and a bit grippy in texture. The lights themselves have built in umbrella holders, the shades themselves have a pass thru hole for the umbrellas.

Units can fire via camera(s) on-board flash as well as the PC-sync cable that is included.

Dragulaz would be better able to comment about the quality vs. AlienBees. He went with me to pick up the strobes.

But for $319 for a pair of the 200w strobes you are getting a very decent strobe for the money. Keep in mind, you don't get a case for travel, or a background setup either as some other kits may include.

The heads themselves are smaller then the AlienBees from what I can see, but you do get the plus of having a kit compatible with Elinchrome/Calumet accessories - which is clearly where the money must be for Calument in this deal :)
MrChad, thanks! I would like to hear how they compare to the AB's (Dragulaz) would you be able to ask him to post what he thinks? I'm still going to sit tight for a while and wait to hear more after they have been used and hope to see some results (pics).
Mike

[TMR Design]

Mike,

Seeing images won't tell you anything. I'm sure you think it will help but it just doesn't. Someone that knows what they're doing can produce unbelievable images using Speedlights. Joe MacNally is a good example. He can go out with a bunch of Nikon SB-800's and SB-600's and create images that you would think had to have been done with some great lighting gear. The other side of it would be the photographer that had a Profoto pack and head system and produced garbage because he knew nothing about lighting.

What I would think you would want to know from someone that owned these lights is:

1. How did they perform?
2. How consistent are they from pop to pop?
3. How consistent is color temperature?
4. Many strobes claim to have proportional tracking of modeling lights. How accurate is that feature?
5. Are the flash tube and modeling lights user replaceable and what is that cost?

Seriously, look at the whole package, and don't sweat over images produced by those lights. That's meaningless.

[magicmikey]

The flashtubes are $59.99 and $69.99 each respectively, which is nearly double the cost of Alienbees flashtubes at $34.95. The modeling lamp bulbs are $24.99 and $26.99 compared to $9.95 for Alienbees.

I'd like to hear some performance results, as well. Robert has explained it well as to what to look at.

Michael

[TMR Design]

Hi Michael,

Not to go off topic here but I just wanted to let you know that the testing is in the works. It's taking a bit longer than expected but within a week or two all the results will be compiled and published.

[shooterman]

The flashtubes are $59.99 and $69.99 each respectively, which is nearly double the cost of Alienbees flashtubes at $34.95. The modeling lamp bulbs are $24.99 and $26.99 compared to $9.95 for Alienbees.

I'd like to hear some performance results, as well. Robert has explained it well as to what to look at.

MichaelWhen I got my B800 the first thing I did was go to Home Depot and bought a 150W halogen bulb for $3.00. It uses a standard base, so no need to pay $9.95 from PCB.

[dragulaz]

Unfortunately I can't comment on anything more that initial build quality observations. I thought the calumet lights looked much more solidly built than what I expected. They were larger than I expected, and had a nice finish. The reflectors, stands, and umbrellas were of a higher grade than I feared they might be. I think you'd want to upgrade stands if you were going to hold anything heavier than an umbrella as a modifier though. We fired them up briefly and got to play with them only for a few minutes before I had to head back to Cincy... no real test shots.

One comment on functionality though, I'm not sure I would like the up/down digital power adjustment. Seems like it would be more tedious than the simple slider in the AB's. But that may just be because I'm not used to it.

In summary, my initial impression was positive. I'd like to try these things out.

[TMR Design]

The nonlinear slider on the AB's is very inaccurate and coarse once you get below 1/4 power. With digital controls, even if it's not exact, you can move 1/10 or 2/10 of a stop. With the Bees it's like an on/off switch at those levels and I find it to be much more difficult to just drop or raise the power by 1/10 stop.

[dragulaz]

Who needs to adjust a light by 1/10th of a stop?

[TMR Design]

Who needs to adjust a light by 1/10th of a stop?

Are you serious? Most professionals want and need that. Why do you think that most higher quality lights have controls for 1/10 stop adjustment.

If I've chosen to shoot at f/8 and I'm metering f/8 + .2, you don't think it's reasonable or necessary to be able to dial down the 2/10 of a stop for the desired aperture?

If not then we have completely different approaches to lighting, exposure and photography.

[MrChad]

I guess I don't really see the point in rating these lights to any pro-degree.

It's a $170 flash head vs. most pro-heads Bowen. Elinchrome, etc. run what $800-$1000 per head?

I guess if your photography requires better then <1/3 stop accuracy that can not be fixed on Post Process then perhaps you should look at some better lights and stop playing with Calumet beginner kits and AlienBees.

These IMO are kits for learning the ropes and developing a craft, and if you can take them a bit further, so be it. I'm not sure why everyone will drop $1000 on a new lens but expect Pro results from $100 strobe is beyound me.

These Genesis lights are a <$400 kit, a good <$400 kit but a cheap kit nonetheless. You always get what you pay for.

The Calumet stands and umbrellas are sold in the kit but they are Calumet off the shelf items, if you happen to break anyone part you can simply call up Calumet. So it's not total junk but cheap enough I'm not going to worry about it.

[TMR Design]

You can by the entry level Elinchrom D-Lite 2 for $286 a piece and they blow the Alien Bees away.

1/3 of a stop can be the difference between a perfect exposure and highlights that are clipping.

I guess I don't really see the point in rating these lights to any pro-degree.

It's a $170 flash head vs. most pro-heads Bowen. Elinchrome, etc. run what $800-$1000 per head?

I guess if your photography requires better then <1/3 stop accuracy that can not be fixed on Post Process then perhaps you should look at some better lights and stop playing with Calumet beginner kits and AlienBees.

These IMO are kits for learning the ropes and developing a craft, and if you can take them a bit further, so be it. I'm not sure why everyone will drop $1000 on a new lens but expect Pro results from $100 strobe is beyound me.

These Genesis lights are a <$400 kit, a good <$400 kit but a cheap kit nonetheless. You always get what you pay for.

The Calumet stands and umbrellas are sold in the kit but they are Calumet off the shelf items, if you happen to break anyone part you can simply call up Calumet. So it's not total junk but cheap enough I'm not going to worry about it.

[claybuster]

Mike,

Seeing images won't tell you anything. I'm sure you think it will help but it just doesn't. Someone that knows what they're doing can produce unbelievable images using Speedlights. Joe MacNally is a good example. He can go out with a bunch of Nikon SB-800's and SB-600's and create images that you would think had to have been done with some great lighting gear. The other side of it would be the photographer that had a Profoto pack and head system and produced garbage because he knew nothing about lighting.

What I would think you would want to know from someone that owned these lights is:

1. How did they perform?
2. How consistent are they from pop to pop?
3. How consistent is color temperature?
4. Many strobes claim to have proportional tracking of modeling lights. How accurate is that feature?
5. Are the flash tube and modeling lights user replaceable and what is that cost?

Seriously, look at the whole package, and don't sweat over images produced by those lights. That's meaningless.
Robert,
Thanks for the tips on what to look for. I guess when I wrote my previous post about seeing some pics I should have worded it a little different, I wasn't going to judge the quality of the strobes by the pics but was hoping to hear something like " here is a pic and the strobes fired consistently" " or didn't "along with comments like you listed.
Mike

[davidseaton]

I pulled the trigger on a 200 for a background light!. I have two of Adorama's flashpoints 300WS which I generally use at <1/2 power through modifiers, so the genesis 200 should be OK for me for hair or background!

[drmikeh]

I have heard enough to prompt me to order a 200 2 light set from Calumet. I am looking for a low end strobe as I am purely an amateur photographer. I am looking for something to shoot photos of the wife and kids and maybe some friends. These look like they fit the bill.
I will post some impressions when I get them set up and start using them.

[MrChad]

You can by the entry level Elinchrom D-Lite 2 for $286 a piece and they blow the Alien Bees away.

1/3 of a stop can be the difference between a perfect exposure and highlights that are clipping.

No doubt but I can only adjust my camera in 1/3rds, so my lights likely will have less error then I can adjust for with my camera.

I'd hope anyone buying a $320 light kit was expecting a kit of $320 value, which I'll bet doesn't include a light meter but the histogram/lcd on the camera anyhow. So you are limited more by your camera for adjustements then the lights.

[TMR Design]

Right. You're not seeing the point. Your camera can only be adjusted in 1/3 or 1/2 stops. If you take a reading and the lighting is exactly as you would like it but you're getting a reading of f/8 + .2 then the obvious solution is to dial down your light 2/10 of a stop rather than rounding off and shooting at f/9.

Why have the lights regulate you. You want to be in control of the lights, not the other way around.

[wilvoeka]

No doubt but I can only adjust my camera in 1/3rds, so my lights likely will have less error then I can adjust for with my camera.

I'd hope anyone buying a $320 light kit was expecting a kit of $320 value, which I'll bet doesn't include a light meter but the histogram/lcd on the camera anyhow. So you are limited more by your camera for adjustements then the lights.

So you let the light dictate your aperature? Instead of you deciding how you want to shoot and then setting the lights?

[MrChad]

So you let the light dictate your aperature? Instead of you deciding how you want to shoot and then setting the lights?

No, my point being it's a $170 strobe. A lil' shot to shot error likely wouldn't surprise or upset me. I've owned camera bags that cost more, and I can't think of too many strobes costing less.

[claybuster]

OK guys, as you can tell by my previous posts i'm kinda new to the studio lighting thing.I have been doing the strobist thing using my 580exII and a couple sunpack 383's ,a couple westcott umbrellas and a,5/1 reflector. I have couple LS-2 and LS-3 stands that i think are pretty good.I would like to purchase a kit and use the stands from a kit,if not as good as mine for background stands and simply buy or make a crossbar.The area I use is about 20'x20' in my basement.The problem I have is the ceiling is low, so come spring I will move into the garage ,again 20'x20' with a ten ft. ceiling instead of the eight ft. in the basement. Tell me if i'm wrong in thinking about getting strobes like 400's instead of 200's . Do I really need 400's ? Would 200's be ok? I don't want to put out any money and a couple weeks later say"I wish I would have got the other ones".
Mike

[TMR Design]

OK guys, as you can tell by my previous posts i'm kinda new to the studio lighting thing.I have been doing the strobist thing using my 580exII and a couple sunpack 383's ,a couple westcott umbrellas and a,5/1 reflector. I have couple LS-2 and LS-3 stands that i think are pretty good.I would like to purchase a kit and use the stands from a kit,if not as good as mine for background stands and simply buy or make a crossbar.The area I use is about 20'x20' in my basement.The problem I have is the ceiling is low, so come spring I will move into the garage ,again 20'x20' with a ten ft. ceiling instead of the eight ft. in the basement. Tell me if i'm wrong in thinking about getting strobes like 400's instead of 200's . Do I really need 400's ? Would 200's be ok? I don't want to put out any money and a couple weeks later say"I wish I would have got the other ones".
Mike

200's are more than likely going to be fine. Generally speaking, many people buy more power than they need but it does depend on what you're lighting and the type of shooting being done. For small to medium sized rooms 200ws is more than fine and gives you a lot of control.

[reelly1]

I am new to strobes and trying to learn so excuse if stupid question. If I were to buy a Genisis kit or two and wanted to add grids. What brand would fit? Would any 7" grid fit? I also see where Calumet sells a "deep grid reflector" Would I need this as well as the grid or will a grid fit directly on the reflector that comes with the Genesis? Thanks

[MrChad]

I am new to strobes and trying to learn so excuse if stupid question. If I were to buy a Genisis kit or two and wanted to add grids. What brand would fit? Would any 7" grid fit? I also see where Calumet sells a "deep grid reflector" Would I need this as well as the grid or will a grid fit directly on the reflector that comes with the Genesis? Thanks

Aside from the umbrellas that are included in the kit I think you need the Calumet/Elinchrom speed ring to attach most of the Calumet brand or Elinchrom type accessories. The ring is a bit pricy at $80's.

[reelly1]

Ok gotcha. So I need the speed ring to attach a grid?? For some reason I was thinking that was just for the soft boxes. Thanks

[MrChad]

Ok gotcha. So I need the speed ring to attach a grid?? For some reason I was thinking that was just for the soft boxes. Thanks

Does the grid simply slip onto the included dish reflector? If not I think the speed ring is used for most items. I'd give Calumet a call to be sure, they don't do a great job of explaining what accessories fit on the web site.

The included reflector attaches via a lock collar on the flash head.

[reelly1]

After eading it again I think you are right in saying one needs the speed ring. It says that the "outer ring" is needed to attach 3D attachments. I will call tomm. Thanks

[tkoutdoor]

200's are more than likely going to be fine. Generally speaking, many people buy more power than they need but it does depend on what you're lighting and the type of shooting being done. For small to medium sized rooms 200ws is more than fine and gives you a lot of control.I've lurked on another one of your lighting threads about inconsistent light quality with AB's and I wonder about something. Is there a certain percentage of the "low power" end of the light that one should consider "throwing away/not using" because of inconsistent color and if so would that favor having a larger light or maybe the opposite - favoring a light not much bigger than needed. It might have been this thread early on even, but you were discussing some disillusionment with AB's and that you were looking for an alternative. Not everyone agreed with your view of the problem which doesn't bother me. If "you've" got a problem, "you" need a solution - the heck with what anyone else says about it. Have you debugged the problem and does it lend itself to what I've said? That may have bearing on the size one might get from any manufacturer like Calumet as well.

[reelly1]

For those that were buying these last week, lets hear your reports now that you have had some time. I am still in limbo. Thanks!

[dragulaz]

For those that were buying these last week, lets hear your reports now that you have had some time. I am still in limbo. Thanks!

MrChad hasn't "earned" his yet. :)

[MrChad]

MrChad hasn't "earned" his yet. :)

don't you have someone else to harass on the internet? :p

[BLS439]

I want to use these out doors for sports. Do you think they are going to have fast enough flash out put? The AB's are questionable depending on the sport. I shoot downhill mountain bike, skate, etc.

[slivr]

Just received my 400 kit and was pleasantly surprised by their quality. While not as heavy feeling and solid as something like Novatron's monoblocs ... they have a very sturdy feel, and each light's exterior features a rubberized (or rubber feeling) housing that's easy to grip and gives you confidence when handling them. Calumet shipped exactly when promised, they arrived when expected, and were packed in a shipping box with more bubble wrap than I've seen anywhere outside a UPS packing store! (My thanks to Calumet.)

The light stands are of good quality (better than several other brands I've had) with smooth extension/compression to the sections. They don't have a rickety, loose feel you might expect from some overseas manufacturers, and include a brass threaded head on top so when using them to hold your light, they'll serve double-duty holding any other number of threaded accessories in your home studio.

Inside their box, the heads and reflectors are bubble wrapped and snug in their packaging, but this kit doesn't include bags or a case. You only get the OEM box (so take care of it) or pick an appropriate case up, after-market. At the price of this kit, that's a small offset in my opinion. More to follow ...

Kit components (oops - ignore the speedring I also purchased to attach a softbox)

http://www.lancerfan.com/images/hosted/01-Components.jpg


Lights snug in their box

http://www.lancerfan.com/images/hosted/02-Inbox.jpg


One light unpacked. Aluminum reflector, Tube cover, 150w Modeling lamp, sync-cord, and power cord. (Not shown: Instructions and 2 spare fuses)

http://www.lancerfan.com/images/hosted/03-Contents.jpg


Calumet Genesis Light Kit (comes with 2 lights, only 1 shown here)

http://www.lancerfan.com/images/hosted/04-Package.jpg


LightStand with brass threaded cap for accessories

http://www.lancerfan.com/images/hosted/05-Stand.jpg

[hawk911]

now where are the pics taken with the kit? ;)

[slivr]

The controls for the lights are a seemingly standard layout for most monoblocs, with attenuating buttons for each feature. All are located on the back of these lights. There's a couple highly desired features included with these Genesis lights, one or more of which are sometimes missing in competitors product: 1. Fan-cooled. (There's a small fan on the bottom of each light sucking air up into the housing, then sending it out the front around the tube/modeling lamp.) 2. Reducing power causes lamp to automatically fire away excess charge after adjusting power levels. This eliminates the built up energy from over-exposing your first shot after changing settings. (No manual test-fires required). 3. Digital power in accurate 1/10th settings -vs- twisting knobs and inaccurate partial stops. 4. Proportional modeling lamps (also full-on or full-off settings) at a slightly improved 150watt -vs- some kits 100 watt lights. 5. Adjustment handles on each Light. These are sometimes an overlooked feature that truly are convenient when moving and aiming your gear for a shot.

FYI: When using the reflector, your umbrella rod runs through a small hole in the reflector shroud and into the stand's recepticle. I don't like this mounting style, but it does allow for a closer mounting to the light's center than if the rod were completely below the reflector.

Finally, I haven't had opportunity to test color balance & stability or play with any portrait sets yet (darn work keeps getting in the way), but my last shot below shows how much light a single 400 kicks out. This was a non-lit room, with afternoon shade outside ... one Genesis 400 light shot into a reflector umbrella at full power, ISO 100, 125/second @ f8. There's a lot of light generated from this. I'd also like to have their 200watt kit for smaller situations and tighter quarters as well. Having put my hands on them now would I buy again? Absolutely! Though it's just an initial impression after handling them once and shooting some meager test shots ... I'm glad I changed from the Alien Bees I placed in a shopping cart last week, then hesitated to buy. These are stronger than Alien Bee's corresponding models (320watt/seconds for the Bees - 400 for Genesis), and cost substantially less. I'm happy, but proof will be in the testing over this weekend.

http://www.lancerfan.com/images/hosted/06-Controls.jpg

http://www.lancerfan.com/images/hosted/07-Fan.jpg

http://www.lancerfan.com/images/hosted/08-Umbrella.jpg

http://www.lancerfan.com/images/hosted/09-LightOutput.jpg

[slivr]

I looked at the D-lites from Elinchrom, and Alien Bees before settling on the Genesis. Outstanding value ... surprisingly solid quality ... but as yet untested by myself. Wish I had the money for those Rx Elinchroms or the Novatron M600's but I'm very satisfied on first impression and test firing. Pick a set up! Unless you're shooting large groups outdoors, you'll probably be as pleasantly surprised as I was with these.

[slivr]

LOL, Hawk. I was sooo impatient for the lights to arrive, and since unpacking them I've taken 10 test images with them (none of anything but an empty room). Hopefully this weekend at last. :)

[claybuster]

slivr,
Thanks for the review! I'm looking forward to hear more from you. I'm ready to pull the trigger on the 200 kit,I don't think I would need the 400's in my small studio area. I know alot of people are waitng to hear some more about these kits.
Mike

[Vortex99]

LOL, Hawk. I was sooo impatient for the lights to arrive, and since unpacking them I've taken 10 test images with them (none of anything but an empty room). Hopefully this weekend at last. :)


Looking forward to your review as well. I need a little push to get the click the buy button.

[claybuster]

Sorry guys,I have to ask one more time. As I wrote in a previous post my studio area will be 20'x20' and I want to shoot head and shoulder and full body portraits. Robert replied earlier that the 200's should be fine(and I do respect his opinions about lighting) But I would like to hear from some you that have the 200's and 400's and hear what you think and what size rooms you are using. Give me some help please! I have my finger on the trigger for the 200's.
Mike

[magicmikey]

Mike,

I think it's pretty evident that the Genesis strobes are too new for most people to be able to give a definitive answer. The handful that have them already and have posted haven't used them enough to give a thorough review of performance.

If you're really itchy to make a decision, it's usually better to have more power than needed than to have less than needed. You can always dial down a strobe that is too powerful at 100% but you can't get more light out of a strobe that isn't powerful enough.

Michael

[TMR Design]

How big is your room?

In my testing I found that an Elinchrom D-Lite 2 (200ws) gave me this:

At ISO 200, flashtube 6' from subject, without a reflector I measure f/16 and with a standard reflector I got f/22. If I fire the strobe into a 36" x 48" softbox I with the same settings and distance I measure f/11 + .3. You can use those numbers to figure out whether this is enough power for you.

f/11 at 6 feet and ISO 200 should be more than enough power and realistically with a 36" x 48" softbox you're going to be working closer than 6 feet from the subject. For very soft wrap around light you might work at 3' from the subject and that will give you f/16. I can't see why you would need 400ws unless you have the space and larger modifiers with larger working distances.

[TMR Design]

Mike,

I think it's pretty evident that the Genesis strobes are too new for most people to be able to give a definitive answer. The handful that have them already and have posted haven't used them enough to give a thorough review of performance.

If you're really itchy to make a decision, it's usually better to have more power than needed than to have less than needed. You can always dial down a strobe that is too powerful at 100% but you can't get more light out of a strobe that isn't powerful enough.

Michael

True Mike but that too has its limitations. I think it makes more sense to assess the correct power needed rather than to generically go for more power. Too much power becomes a pain in the arse when you're constantly having to move your lights further away, use ND gels (which becomes almost impossible with a softbox), or mechanical means when having the right power and dialing down does what you want. Aside from the issue of inconsistency with the Alien Bees I found the B800's to be too powerful at times. Even with the power slider all the way down, if I had a medium to large size softbox about 4 to 6 feet from the subject I couldn't use an aperture larger than about f/5.6 and found it impossible to get f/2.8 or f/4. If shallow depth of field is important and you don't want your lights 10 feet from the subject you have to be able to get your strobes down in power.

From all the testing and lots of experience with B800's I feel very confident that in many cases 400ws is just too much for small to medium spaces and we are all so in the mode of recommending more power than necessary. The numbers I gave above are real world numbers and not just a guess or a recommendation that is not based in fact.

[claybuster]

Thanks again Robert! One of my main problems is my subject to background distance isn't very much and I like to use a shallower depth of field to blur(bokeh) the background so that I don't see all the wrinkles in the muslin back drops. I don't have a very wide portrait lens yet(prime) I do have a tokina 12-24 that I use sometimes (working on getting a wide prime). I think the 200's would be a good set in my space. I don't want to invest more money in ND gels . I think moving the lights closer would be better than moving away and finding out I can't get the results I'm looking for.
Mike

[TMR Design]

Thanks again Robert! One of my main problems is my subject to background distance isn't very much and I like to use a shallower depth of field to blur(bokeh) the background so that I don't see all the wrinkles in the muslin back drops. I don't have a very wide portrait lens yet(prime) I do have a tokina 12-24 that I use sometimes (working on getting a wide prime). I think the 200's would be a good set in my space. I don't want to invest more money in ND gels . I think moving the lights closer would be better than moving away and finding out I can't get the results I'm looking for.
Mike

Hi Mike,

I think it's a wise decision, and for what it's worth, I'm sure that if you found the 200's were not powerful enough or you just wanted a 400 to blast your background then you could add or swap one. Also, keep in mind that in a small space, working at closer distances to the subject, you reduce depth of field quite a bit so you really don't have to shoot at f/2.8 or f/4 with a 50mm lens to achieve a really smooth out of focus background. With my 200ws Elinchrom's I can get down to f/4 and if I do pull the lights back a bit I can even shoot at f/2.8 without any ND's. With a back light that is also close to the background, using a wide angle reflector you can easily get your 3 to 3 1/3 stops reflective over your incident subject area exposure for backgrounds that are white with no detail. Example. If you're shooting at f/5.6 for example, you'll have no trouble at all using a 200ws strobe to get f/16 + .3 on your background. If you push it you can also shoot at f/11 and still have the power to hit your background with f/32 + .3, and in the event that the back light can't get you enough, then as I said, you can just grab a 400ws strobe for your backlight or add another 200ws for those times that you need an extra on your background or for an accent or kicker.

[claybuster]

200's it will be! Now can anyone tell me what size sync plug these strobes have? I will need a new cord for my pocket wizard II . I think alien bees have a 1/8" 3.5mm. I wonder if these have the same.
Mike

[magicmikey]

If you look at the photos posted by slivr, it looks like the Genesis units use the same sync jack. Take a look at the cord in the third photo down in his first set of photos of the strobe: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=437877&page=8

[claybuster]

If you look at the photos posted by slivr, it looks like the Genesis units use the same sync jack. Take a look at the cord in the third photo down in his first set of photos of the strobe: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=437877&page=8
Mike,
I was looking at the pictures already and it looks like it would take the 1/8" 3.5mm plug. I was even trying to scale the plug off of the control panel:lol: but don't really know and want to be sure.
Mike

[TMR Design]

It IS the standard 1/8" (3.5mm ) jack used for sync.

[claybuster]

It IS the standard 1/8" (3.5mm ) jack used for sync.
Thanks again Robert,
I know you have done some testing and are doing tests on different strobes .Do you think you will give these a test?
Mike

[TMR Design]

Hey Mike,

I've added the Calumet Genesis strobe to my list for testing. I may not have this light in the first round of results I publish but in time I'll be adding many more, perhaps even testing the B&H Impact lights and some other low end, inexpensive strobes.

[magicmikey]

Wow, Robert, what are you going to do with all those different models of strobes you are acquiring?

Michael

[claybuster]

Hey Mike,

I've added the Calumet Genesis strobe to my list for testing. I may not have this light in the first round of results I publish but in time I'll be adding many more, perhaps even testing the B&H Impact lights and some other low end, inexpensive strobes.
I can't wait to hear the results. I wish i could afford higher end strobes but work has been kinda slow and things in MI. are getting bad, so money is kind of tight right now. My wife was at the computer with me and saw where you are from. She is from Selden LI. and two of my stepdaughters live on LI. I've been there a few times and like it. I like making the 12 hour drive to LI. passing through PA. in the fall when the colors are changing is beautiful. Sounds like you will have one heck of a studio with all the strobes you are getting for testing.
Mike

[tetrode]

Now that I've had my Genesis 200 kit for about 10 days now, I thought I'd chime in with an observation or two. Althought ultimate durability remains an unknown, my initial impressions are that this kit is the lighting steal of the century (a bit overstated but you get the point). Two well made strobe lights, two good quality umbrellas and two substantial light stands for almost $100 less than a single 580EXII is an undeniable great deal (if flexible studio lighting is what you're after). However, it should be noted that there are a few design flaws/limitations.

Incredibly, the plastic protective covers for the flash tubes cannot be used if the modeling light bulbs are installed. The bulbs are longer than the depth of the protective covers. Calumet is well aware of this design faux pas and, at this stage, is only recommending that the modeling light bulbs be removed prior to storage. This is NOT a solution. Elinchrom makes similar caps for their heads/monoblocs but I have not, as yet, been able to ascertain if these are deep enough to work on the Genesis units.

Another minor operational restriction is that the heads cannot be pointed straight up. Almost, but not quite.

As others have noted in earlier posts, using the up and down buttons to set output power is not nearly as convenient as slider type controls. What you may gain in accuracy, you give up in convenience.

Finally, I think it would behoove Calumet to develop and offer a range of light modifiers priced similarly to those offered by the Alien Bees folks. Elinchrom modifiers will work but their pricing is not likely to make them an attractive option to those of us who are attempting to assemble an economical yet flexible light kit.

So far, I've only used my 200's to light some eBay photos. The quick and dirty setup looks like this:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2412/2276117770_239ccc2304_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2102/2275323833_afaca8c6e9_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2032/2275323873_a50606d37e_o.jpg


If you're thinking of dabbling in studio lighting, it's very hard to beat this Calumet deal.

Finally, don't forget the extra 5% off you can get by ordering through the jellyfish site.

Dave F.

[tetrode]

Regarding my previous post: Please be aware that the umbrellas shown in the photos are NOT the umbrellas that came with the Genesis kit. Those are two 30" Photoflex units. The kit umbrellas were just too large for the low ceiling in the basement of my house.

Dave F.

[hawk911]

fine- just rub it in. This seems to be a direct competitor to the Bee hive. Nice product shot, too.

[Lunajen]

Since we are checking out these lower end yet, well made kits by these companies...has anyone tried the Flashpoints by Adorama?
I see that they have a kit for a 620W portrait kit for about $549.95.
It has two monos at 300 watts each, two stands, two 40" umbrellas, and a carrying case, bulbs, synch cord....

[TMR Design]

fine- just rub it in. This seems to be a direct competitor to the Bee hive. Nice product shot, too.

There are some very good entry level and inexpensive competitors that really outshine (no pun intended) the Bees.

Many people have found the Alien Bees modifiers to be sub-par and some are of bad design. Regardless of that, they do have the modifiers, so you have to make sure when you're checking out some of these other strobes that they have speedrings available and compatibility with other products. You don't want to get locked into a limited selection or having to use proprietary devices.

If you intend to shoot subjects in motion then you also want to look at flash duration, not to be confused with recycle time.

If you're getting a multi-light kit then make sure you have proportional tracking of the modeling lights. Also, look for things like those pointed out about the Calumet Genesis lights, such as the protective cover that can't be placed over the front of the strobe with the modeling light installed. It's a silly thing but it presents the potential for breaking or losing bulbs. Analog vs. Digital control is a preference, with digital providing the accuracy and analog giving a slight edge with the convenience of turning a know of moving a slider.

When pricing is very good I think it's easy to overlook the few things that the lights are not but it's important to look at the big picture and think about convenience, cost of bulb replacement, and cost of modifiers. Most of the alternative brands are a bit more costly but for many of us it's well worth it for the overall quality of light and performance of the strobe.

[Tyger]

There are some very good entry level and inexpensive competitors that really outshine (no pun intended) the Bees.

Many people have found the Alien Bees modifiers to be sub-par and some are of bad design. Regardless of that, they do have the modifiers, so you have to make sure when you're checking out some of these other strobes that they have speedrings available and compatibility with other products. You don't want to get locked into a limited selection or having to use proprietary devices.

If you intend to shoot subjects in motion then you also want to look at flash duration, not to be confused with recycle time.

If you're getting a multi-light kit then make sure you have proportional tracking of the modeling lights. Also, look for things like those pointed out about the Calumet Genesis lights, such as the protective cover that can't be placed over the front of the strobe with the modeling light installed. It's a silly thing but it presents the potential for breaking or losing bulbs. Analog vs. Digital control is a preference, with digital providing the accuracy and analog giving a slight edge with the convenience of turning a know of moving a slider.

When pricing is very good I think it's easy to overlook the few things that the lights are not but it's important to look at the big picture and think about convenience, cost of bulb replacement, and cost of modifiers. Most of the alternative brands are a bit more costly but for many of us it's well worth it for the overall quality of light and performance of the strobe.

Some very good points here Robert. I've been researching many of these kits mainly AB800's, Elinchrom D-Lite 2 and 4 and of course the Calumet Genesis kits. I'm a little hesitant since the latter is fairly new and AB's come highly recommended, I do find myself leaning towards the D-Lites mainly because of the overall quality, although more in price but I do hope to build from a good foundation rather than buying for the now.

However, of course it depends on my budget, so we'll have to wait and see.

I'd still love to hear more from the owners of the Genesis kits.

[hawk911]

Some very good points here Robert. I've been researching many of these kits mainly AB800's, Elinchrom D-Lite 2 and 4 and of course the Calumet Genesis kits. I'm a little hesitant since the latter is fairly new and AB's come highly recommended, I do find myself leaning towards the D-Lites mainly because of the overall quality, although more in price but I do hope to build from a good foundation rather than buying for the now.

However, of course it depends on my budget, so we'll have to wait and see.

I'd still love to hear more from the owners of the Genesis kits.

thanks Robert, and I wholeheartedly agree with Tyger. My budget ends up deciding more than I'd like it to, but it is what it is. I guess my point was lots of folks seem to like Bees, and those that can afford more expensive units buy more expensive units. Elinchroms come up a lot also, but out of my range.

[shooterman]

Does anyone know if the modeling lights have a normal size base? In other words would I be able to run down to Home Depot and buy replacements for $3.00 instead of buying from Calument for $27.00?

[hawk911]

Randy, are you buying a set now?

[AndreaBFS]

Finally, don't forget the extra 5% off you can get by ordering through the jellyfish site.

Hmm. I read through the whole thread and I don't see this jellyfish site mentioned? Am I missing it somewhere?

[AndreaBFS]

Ahh. OK. Found it!

[slimninj4]

For those that are ordering them online. Do not forget to get the coupon for free shipping.

Also there is an educational discount you can use.

[shooterman]

Randy, are you buying a set now?
Maybe. My wife Brenda asked me what I want for my birthday and I showed her these, so she said OK. I have two shoots lined up in March, my first ones other than shooting my wife, (knock on wood so I don't jinx it, LOL) and I don't want to look ghetto with the speedlites. I know I shouldn't worry for a second about it but I do. I would rather get the D-Lites but just can't swing it right now. I'm sure these Genesis will be pretty decent.

[shooterman]

For those that are ordering them online. Do not forget to get the coupon for free shipping.What coupon? How do I find it? Thanks!

I see you edited to add about educational. If I have kids in school does that count? Haha.

[hawk911]

Maybe. My wife Brenda asked me what I want for my birthday and I showed her these, so she said OK. I have two shoots lined up in March, my first ones other than shooting my wife, (knock on wood so I don't jinx it, LOL) and I don't want to look ghetto with the speedlites. I know I shouldn't worry for a second about it but I do. I would rather get the D-Lites but just can't swing it right now. I'm sure these Genesis will be pretty decent.

Can your wife talk to my wife?

[Lunajen]

Can your wife talk to my wife?

And when you are done with her, you can come talk to my husband!