Night Club Photography; does it belong in Perfoming Arts?

[blackshadow]

I have noticed an increased presence of night club photography photos/topics appearing in the Performing Arts section.

While there is some great photography and tips about night club photography I tend to think it is more a specialised form of people photography than actual performing arts. To me performing arts is about capturing performers rather than people out at clubs having a good time.

It seems to me that night club photography is being lumped into the PA section as both forms of photography often involve shooting in low light situations.

I'm interested in the form of photography; but does it really belong here?

I'm interested in what other people think.

[simon_says]

With 'Performing Arts', I would assume the images are of actual performers. With a nightclub, photos are usually of patrons (with the exception of the performers such as deejays, etc.), so I would lump them into 'people photography' - just a different type and atmosphere. I don't think it merits its own section.

[Nick_b]

I think a DJ is a performer and posting pictures of DJs doing their thing along with one or two crowd shots is cool but posting 4-5 crowd shots to one DJ shot does make me wonder. Same goes with rock concert crowd shots.

[johnstoy]

It might be at a venue, but performance by a DJ is basically limited to "flipping" disc's of some one else's music...

Some *razzle dazzle* done to the record by slowing it down, or some other staccato, or stutter to the beat, is again basic at best... I'm certain others will argue it's a performance, requiring creativity and an ear for music... But it's some one else's music... That some one else is the actual Performer, not the DJ.

OK, it requires some musical talent, but coupled with nothing more than multiple crowd shots, basically rules it out.

Same goes for pics of the gear... Still photography is all it is.

The light show is just that, a light show to go with it...

So it may be performing artistic pictures, but not really a Performing Art.

So take it away, guys... If you know of how the DJ is performing original music let me know... And if he is just performing, let's hear that argument too.

I'm voting it into one of the other category's, outside of Performing Arts.

Good Luck with this one Richard... I'm looking forward to the debate.

[Riff Raff]

I suppose it just depends on your emphasis. Concentrating on performers (probably including DJs here)? Then I guess it's Performing Arts. Concentrating on people at the venue/in the audience? Then I guess it's People. I think most "Night Club Photography" tends toward the People side of things though. Especially when it's of the "OMG, check out these hot chicks" variety.

[narlus]

i'm in accordance w/ Riff Raff's take. showing a turntablist is definitely a performing arts shot...showing 3 slightly tipsy women, arm-in-arm, in a club, smiling @ the photog? people shots.

john, if you think that a DJ isn't performing 'original music', then i guess you have no time for collages either. or Led Zep, for that matter....Jimmy Page was nothing if not a crafty thief, stealing others' licks and lines. the tradition of borrowing and building on that base is well established in music.

[blackshadow]

If the thread was titled Carl Cox @ XXX club and most of the photographs were of the DJ, taking time to capture his expressions, actions etc then it is definitely performing arts. But the other stuff that has crept in here is really moving away from performing arts in my opinion.

[S.Horton]

People are always performing in public. Sure, why not.

[johnstoy]

I have several clubs just three miles away in Lake Harmony, PA... I don't care for the smoke and don't go there any more... Haven't been to a club in many years.

Things change... I'd enjoy the music, but have no idea what the new DJ's do any more... And as long as there is cigarette smoke in there, I'm not going to find out... Pardon my ignorence... but I'm in no hurry to find out... So you guys vote as you wish...

I have radio DJ's as friends and even personally DJ'd in college and at an ice skating rink for years (1970's)...
And I've posted my ideas (as outdated as they may be)... Am letting it go at that.

EDIT: Don't get me started on this... I've just bought me the 580EX II, OC-E3 cord, and a Newton Bracket for a family wedding... Hopefully I won't be clubbing every night, :lol::lol::lol: ...It just cost's too much.

[FliptEG2]

i say getting all jazzed up to go to the club is the production

[Rukes]

Well I think 99% of nightlife photography is more about people shots. I'm one of the only nightlife photographers in the world that does more DJ/performer stuff. That's why I do what I do and ended up being extremely successful :)

Johnstoy, a majority of the major DJs nowadays use laptops to DJ, which gives the option of creating/modifying/remixing music on the fly and performing live.

[Travisj]

Nope, they should be put in the people section. Easy as that.

[johnstoy]

Well I think 99% of nightlife photography is more about people shots. I'm one of the only nightlife photographers in the world that does more DJ/performer stuff. That's why I do what I do and ended up being extremely successful :)

Johnstoy, a majority of the major DJs nowadays use laptops to DJ, which gives the option of creating/modifying/remixing music on the fly and performing live.

Rukes, Thanks for the heads up...

I did notice the laptops in some of the photos... (It just didn't register at the time)... So, I wouldn't mind getting a hold of some of those music programs and giving it a whirl... If it's pertaining to music, I like it.

Good luck with your tasks at hand... Sounds like a great way to spend the evenings. Cheers.

[Rukes]

I would suggest the most popular one, Ableton Live:

http://www.ableton.com/

Can get a demo of it there. You can do a lot of stuff with it!

[DwightMcCann]

I just voted to have Club Photography in Performing Arts. I am not a purist. Since this website is about photography including techniques as well as sharing images, I feel that the great overlap in equipment and techniques used to shoot concerts (DJ or band) and audience are much more similar than disparate. Arguments that one audience shot per concert is OK but seven isn't is a bit strained ... how can percentages affect appropriateness? But I don't do club photography exactly so I have no great energy on it ... I'm just always amazed at how attentive photographers are to the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.

[SilverOnemi]

well ... when u r photographing singers n all that crap... they are people too !

[Zeeshan0518]

When i started searching for night club photography my first thoughts was "the performing arts section"

[Rukes]

I think any generic club night should be more for the people section, since that's what 99% of the pics are of.

Any club nights with a major/famous DJ with a majority of the emphasis on photos of the performer should be in performing arts.

[DwightMcCann]

Rukes, where should someone go to talk about Club Photography technique and equipment?

[Rukes]

I would say Performing Arts since it mostly deals with alot of low-light photography.

I'm all for keeping nightclub photography in the Performing Arts section, but just with less talk/posting of random people and more for the performing artists :)

[tommykjensen]

I would say Performing Arts since it mostly deals with alot of low-light photography.


and

I think any generic club night should be more for the people section, since that's what 99% of the pics are of.


is not about low light photography ?? Your reasoning is flawed.

[condyk]

The people dancin' are performing but they are also people. I believe that the Universe has greater challenges to concern itself with :-)

[Rukes]

and




is not about low light photography ?? Your reasoning is flawed.

I was replying to Dwight asking where talk about club photography techniques/equipment.

Also, as I stated before, 99% of nightlife photography are shots of just people, hence that kind of stuff being in the people section. They aren't performers and lights are usually not on them, so it's mostly the photographer's flash that is used on them.

[marathon]

"night club photography" is a bit vague...

i guess it depends on what you take pictures of in the club, and what is specifically happening in the club (err... in da club) on that given night.

for example, if there is a band or a famous dj spinning, and most of your pics focus on that (and a few crowd shots) the definitely it falls under performance arts.

but if you're referring to 'night club photography' where it's just pics of the people who show up, it falls under 'people'. an example would be something along the lines of... "hot r n' b night at rain nightclub in las vegas" (ok i just made that up, i don't really go to these places... ain't my scene) and the gallery is just pics of the 'hot' people that show up, it's 'people photography' example of it would be this: http://rain-las-vegas.n9negroup.com/

[blackshadow]

In response to Rukes I'd say that most nightclub photographic techniques I have seen are different to Performing Arts techniques; both often deal with low light but there are some serious differences in technique.
I'd estimate that in excess of 80% of photos posted in Performing Arts are shot with available light with flash being the minority.
Nearly all the night club photography I have seen is flash photography with very little emphasis given to available light shooting.
IMHO they are two very different styles and techniques.

[Rukes]

"night club photography" is a bit vague...

i guess it depends on what you take pictures of in the club, and what is specifically happening in the club (err... in da club) on that given night.

for example, if there is a band or a famous dj spinning, and most of your pics focus on that (and a few crowd shots) the definitely it falls under performance arts.

but if you're referring to 'night club photography' where it's just pics of the people who show up, it falls under 'people'. an example would be something along the lines of... "hot r n' b night at rain nightclub in las vegas" (ok i just made that up, i don't really go to these places... ain't my scene) and the gallery is just pics of the 'hot' people that show up, it's 'people photography' example of it would be this: http://rain-las-vegas.n9negroup.com/

Yes, this is exactly my point :) It's like someone going to a U2 concert. If you take pics of U2, it is definately performaing arts, however if you take pics of the fans individually, it should definately be under people.

[blackshadow]

The results speak for themselves - of those that care over 60% agree that night club photos (those featuring crowds/people) should not be posted in the performing arts section.

I hope that the moderators will move such threads into the relevant forum section (People?)

[Skip Souza]

Your math is way off. Only 52.17% of the 46 people who voted want these out of Performing Arts. There are over 133,000 registered members on POTN. With that population since when does 24 become a significant number?

[blackshadow]

By my maths only 16 from 46 want them in PA (less than 35%).

There may be 133,000 registered uses, I have no idea how many of them are active, let alone are active participants in the Performing Arts section. I do know the number of active participants in PA is fairly low when considering the over all activity on POTN.

The sample size may be low but it's the only sample size we have on this issue and I do believe it is indicative of how the regulars who post in Performing Arts think.

[DwightMcCann]

Your math is way off. Only 52.17% of the 46 people who voted want these out of Performing Arts.
Oh, right, the King of Calculus speaks! Hey, why don't you go back to your ten point system, buddy! :lol::lol::lol:

My REAL VOTE is that Performing Arts be changed to Live Entertainment which is what I wanted in the first place. And my REAL AMAZEMENT is that people get concerned about these issues ... it's like the guys who whine about the pictures that show up in G&N that aren't sexy ... it's not about sexy, it's about photography. The only difference between the musicians on the dark stage and the girls dancing on the dark dance floor is that that you don't have a three song limit, you can use flash with the girls and they're nice enough to pose for you ... other than that, it's Performing Arts! :rolleyes:

[Edit: Richard, I admit it ... I tend to be inclusive (I'd like more people participating in PA even if it means being lax) at the expense of strictness. You may be right in a definition sort of way but I'm more concerned about getting people involved. Either path is a slippery slope.]

[Skip Souza]

I stand corrected. I overlooked the one vote for a separate section which would bring the ratio up to 54.34% of a globally insignificant number that is adamantly opposed to photos of patrons in the P.A. section.

I don't think that is sufficient to dictate policy.

[Jon]

By my maths only 16 from 46 want them in PA (less than 35%).

There may be 133,000 registered uses, I have no idea how many of them are active, let alone are active participants in the Performing Arts section. I do know the number of active participants in PA is fairly low when considering the over all activity on POTN.

The sample size may be low but it's the only sample size we have on this issue and I do believe it is indicative of how the regulars who post in Performing Arts think.OK then - out of 543 views, you've only got 25 votes for separating clubbing from performing arts. That's also hardly a groundswell in favor of the differentiation. If the number of active participants in PA is fairly low in comparison with overall POTN activity, maybe the whole genre should be rolled back into "People".

[Rukes]

I think it should just be up to the moderators and the people posting the pics to police them. If someone posts nothing but people at a club, move it to People pics.

It would be nice to change Perfoming Arts to Live Entertainment, however pics of people in attendance are not the ones performing, so it still should be moved to people. You can tell people how to pose, where to go, etc.. and they work with you. With people actually performing, you have to capture them performing, hence Performing Arts. Can't go on stage and tell the guitarist to move over a little, or stop moving so fast :)

The only difference between the musicians on the dark stage and the girls dancing on the dark dance floor is that that you don't have a three song limit, you can use flash with the girls and they're nice enough to pose for you ... other than that, it's Performing Arts!

The stage is never dark for DJs, nor is there a song limit (usually), though :) There is a big difference between the performer and people in the club.

[DwightMcCann]

I think it should just be up to the moderators and the people posting the pics to police them. If someone posts nothing but people at a club, move it to People pics.

It would be nice to change Perfoming Arts to Live Entertainment, however pics of people in attendance are not the ones performing, so it still should be moved to people. You can tell people how to pose, where to go, etc.. and they work with you. With people actually performing, you have to capture them performing, hence Performing Arts. Can't go on stage and tell the guitarist to move over a little, or stop moving so fast :)



The stage is never dark for DJs, nor is there a song limit (usually), though :) There is a big difference between the performer and people in the club.

Hey, I'm easy ... and I agree, let anyone offended report posts to the moderators and let them decide ... I simply wished to be known on the side of inclusion or letting the poster determine where they wanted the image ... which is not to say any image should be postable in any forum. I would note two things: (1) being anal about what posts go in which forums creates work for moderators who are unpaid and overworked, and (2) Performing Arts has relatively few posts compared with the other forums with posts staying on the first page for days while in People things seem to slide off in a few hours ... I am a bit unclear of why there is any energy on this at all but I don't disagree with the logic presented by Richard or Rukes but neither do I object to having Club pictures. You know, it was only about a year ago that there was no Performing Arts and we were lumped in with Urban Legends or some such thing! :lol::lol::lol:

[Rukes]

I think Performing Arts should be more generalized to "Events" since we have a "Weddings and Other Family Events" forum, why not a "General Events" forum for concerts, general events/parties that aren't family related, clubs, etc...

Or better yet, General Events And Urban Legends, I want a place to post my Chupacabra, Mothman, Bigfoot and UFO pics! :)

[Jon]

I think Performing Arts should be more generalized to "Events" since we have a "Weddings and Other Family Events" forum, why not a "General Events" forum for concerts, general events/parties that aren't family related, clubs, etc...

Or better yet, General Events And Urban Legends, I want a place to post my Chupacabra, Mothman, Bigfoot and UFO pics! :)
Chupaabra, Mothman and Bigfoot go in Nature and Wildlife along with Nessie and Chessie. UFOs go in Transportation (unless you have 2 or more racing, in which case it's Motorsports). See - all taken care of!

[CyberDyneSystems]

UFOs go in Transportation (unless you have 2 or more racing, in which case it's Motorsports).

Greys and ET by the way go in People rather than Wildlife with Bigfoot,.. (seriously!) since they too are self aware, use cutlery and can control there sexual urges.

[::John::]

Greys and ET by the way go in People rather than Wildlife with Bigfoot,.. (seriously!) since they too are self aware, use cutlery and can control there sexual urges.

ah, man!

Thanks for the definition. :confused:

I'm gonna be real wary huntin' critters now...

[DwightMcCann]

I think Performing Arts should be more generalized to "Events" since we have a "Weddings and Other Family Events" forum, why not a "General Events" forum for concerts, general events/parties that aren't family related, clubs, etc...

Or better yet, General Events And Urban Legends, I want a place to post my Chupacabra, Mothman, Bigfoot and UFO pics! :)

Very clever, very insightful and I think it would work well.

[yap'in]

i say getting all jazzed up to go to the club is the production

i agree... we should group the club photography back

[Wazza]

Would night club not come under a sport?

I voted on keeping them within the Performing Arts - as generally, it's from concerts/theatre etc, and feel this sort of photography also is the same similar scene. Either way, it's challenging lighting situations from all of them, and is good to keep them all together.

[blackshadow]

it's challenging lighting situations from all of them, and is good to keep them all together.

Maybe there needs to be a couple of low light sections if it is about technique.

Low Light Available Light technique

and

Low Light Flash technique (this could probably fit into the Small Flash and Studio lighting section)

To me there is a huge difference in shooting low light with and without flash - most of the night club shots are with flash and most of the performing arts shots use available light.

I'm interested to hear what others think about this.