Trouble with flash at reception

[crenda]

I recently upgraded from a 430EX to a 580EX II.
This weekend I was asked to take some shots at a reception (non-paid- just as a friend). Now I've use my 30D and 430EX before and the results were fine. This time I used my 580EX II, 30d and 17-55 (first time with that as well) and my results were wildy unpredictable. I seemed to either get really dark shots or blown out white washed shots.

I usually use Manual mode on the 30d w/flash, but this time I even switched to "P" just to try and ensure some decent results, but things were still bad- too dark or too light.

Generally in manual I was shooting iso 800, shutter of anywhere from 60-80 and usually F4. I always felt like the flash was not metering correctly. I kept the flash on ETTL. I've used the 580 around the house and I don't think there is a problem with it. I think the problem is me, so time to read my flash manual some more.

Can anyone provide some general settings or guidelines for flash shooting in a large reception hall?

[Jam71868]

I don't have any technical tips to help you, but when I had a similar problem I solved it by bouncing the light off the ceiling. In my case, the ceiling was probably a 25-30 ft ceiling.

[JimAskew]

A tip I found here last year that works very well for me:

30D
17-55MM EF-S IS
580 EX

Use: In Manual mode, ISO 400, 1/200th, f/5.6 and bounce the flash off the ceiling.

[crenda]

Thanks.

Any suggested general settings when not using using bounce?

[picturecrazy]

check to make sure your flash is still autozooming. half-press the shutter and then zoom your lens through it's range. you should be able to hear the flash zooming too. If not, then you might have set it to a specific zoom and that could cause exposure problems.

You also have to look at what you are shooting. If your subject is in white then you have to turn the Flash exposure compensation up about a stop. If they are in black, then you have to turn it down. Your camera will always try to expose to an 18% grey, so these extreme have to be compensated. Each scene could give you different results. I adjust FEC probably about 400 times a wedding.

If those don't do the trick, then we can look further.

[crenda]

Thanks very much... I'll take those suggestions and give them a shot.

[Alexajlex]

A key point is that when bouncing the flash the auto-zoom function of the 580 (or any speedlight with zoom flash) will not work. The minute you tilt the flash into a high bounce position the auto zoom will not work.

I have had to adjust the FEC all the time with my 580. Generally it will underexpose to begin with but then it will sometimes get fooled and try to burn the highlights in some cases.

+1 FEC is kind of like a requirement for a person in a white wedding dress from my experience as well.

[AB8ND]

My guess might be shooting on Program, on P with the flash on the camera will set itself to 1/60th what ever f stop it thinks is best. Depending on your surroundings you can easily get over or under exposed pictures. I'd go back to manual set the 30d underexpose the ambient light by 1 or 1 1/2 stops and then let ETTL do the rest to fill in. You might want to use the FEC depending on the subject and background.

Jack

[ErikM]

Why are you shooting at ISO 800? ;) I don't think I've ever gone above ISO 400 for reception type lighting and using a hot shoe flash.

[nyktrade]

this is something that I found to be very useful whenever I do wedding, particularly when the reception hall is very dark. Shoot in manual, put the Flash in ETTL-II mode. Set your aperture depending on what DOF you would like to get. Then set your speed so that the combination of speed and aperture give you -2 underexposure. This will make sure that your background is not completely dark, especially when you can't do bounce flash. I also found that getting a couple 420EX flash on stands helps a lot. On this case, you can use the 580ex as master and remote trigger the other 2 flashes to expose other part of the room if you need to.

[Alexajlex]

Crenda - I do the same as far as using high ISO (800-1600) I use it because it allows me to use the flash and not tax the batteries as much and I can get more shots from 1 set of batteries. The other reason I use high ISO is to expose the background. Just like shutter dragging but I call it ISO dragging :).

As far as the main problem I'd say do some tests with the FEC.
When I first got my 580EXII took some test shots of a white shirt and a black coat and the results confirmed the fact that sometimes when the 580 gets confused it underexposes by 1 stop.

[Curtis N]

crenda,

Post a few of the problem shots, give us the settings used, and we'll try to analyze things.

[crenda]

Here are a couple of examples of the problems I had. These are right out of the camera, no PP- just resize and save for web.

Settings for shot 1:
38mm
1/60th
F4
Flash fired, compulsory flash mode

Settings for shot 2:
28mm
1/30th
F4
Flash fired, compulsory flash mode

[Curtis N]

Looks to me like you just need to crank up the FEC. Bridal gowns can be a problem, because whenever E-TTL sees something white it will try to expose it to medium gray (don't ask me why).

For shooting in this environment, it might also help to switch to Average E-TTL mode (via custom function on the camera).

[crenda]

Thanks. I will certainly play around with those settings to see if I can get this right.

[Shooting]

Any time I bounce, and I mean ANY and EVERY time I have to do a FEC of +1 because when you bounce or use a diffuser you lose about 1 stop and my 580EX II does not make up the difference. If you do a FEC of +1 when you bounce you will see a big difference..that is your 1 stop of lose light being recovered. I use ISO 400 and have tried 800 but all that does is give you extra distance..at least it does for me, gives me more distance but does not brighten the scene that much. Do a +1FEC..

[ChunkyDA]

I adjust FEC probably about 400 times a wedding.

Lloyd, Can you explain how you know when to adjust and what the adjustment should be? Do you take a bad shot, make an adjustment and try again?
Same thing happened to me at cousin's wedding but I had 420EX and could not go manual. Every shot with even a bit of white gown was under-exposed.

[crenda]

Any time I bounce, and I mean ANY and EVERY time I have to do a FEC of +1 because when you bounce or use a diffuser you lose about 1 stop and my 580EX II does not make up the difference. If you do a FEC of +1 when you bounce you will see a big difference..that is your 1 stop of lose light being recovered. I use ISO 400 and have tried 800 but all that does is give you extra distance..at least it does for me, gives me more distance but does not brighten the scene that much. Do a +1FEC..

Good info, however in those sample pics I posted I wasn't bouncing.
It seems though that FEC is going to be the answer for the problem I was having regardless.

[Wilt]

Any time I bounce, and I mean ANY and EVERY time I have to do a FEC of +1 because when you bounce or use a diffuser you lose about 1 stop and my 580EX II does not make up the difference. If you do a FEC of +1 when you bounce you will see a big difference..that is your 1 stop of lose light being recovered. I use ISO 400 and have tried 800 but all that does is give you extra distance..at least it does for me, gives me more distance but does not brighten the scene that much. Do a +1FEC..

Right compensation, wrong reason!

ETTL is supposed to see the brightness of the subject area that results from the pre-flash, and set itself to the scene. If it works correctly, you would NOT have to offset inefficiency of ceiling bouce. After all, not all ceilings are equally reflective...some have more texture than others (which is a less efficient reflector), others have brighter white paint than others (darkened with cigarette smoke accumulation), so what YOU dial in would have to be variable, not fixed, if what you were doing was truly offsetting the ceiling bounce!

In reality, your FEC +1 with bounce is no different than FEC +1 with direct flash. Without it, Canon ETTL is rather notorious for underexposing when flash is the main source of light in the scene, and FEC +1 merely offsets that horrid underexposure!

What crenda says, "Good info, however in those sample pics I posted I wasn't bouncing. It seems though that FEC is going to be the answer for the problem I was having regardless", is true!

[subtle_spectre]

My solution to the problem of 580's at receptions was to ditch them and get Metz 54's and 58's! I much prefer their auto mode.