dump the film camera

[darrell]

Out of curiosity and for some discussion, at what point is it worth getting rid of the 35mm film camera and sticking strictly with digital? I haven't used my A2 in over a year, in fact last time it was even out of the case was when I wanted to use the case for my D30. I'm sure my wife would like to have the drawer in the refrigerator for food use instead of film. I won't be getting a d60 any time soon, too many problems with it. Maybe next generation D30/1D combo.

[sbkearne]

The answer may be in your next to last sentence - "I won't be getting a d60 any time soon, too many problems with it." The 35mm is still the most reliable so I doubt I will completely toss it for some time. I just recently purchased a D60 and I have some problems with it that I may ask help on from this board. Besides, you should always have a back up, just in case.

[Roger_Cavanagh]

Sell! Sell now before the bottom drop out of the A2 market. :D

I bought my D30 in March last . In August last year, I traded all my film gear - a Canon SLR, an APS and a Minox - to help fund the purchase of the EF100-400 LIS. I'm sure there's something that could be usefully added to your kit, or just stick the money in savings account as a deposit against the D90 or 1Ds.

You haven't touched it in a year - what chance the A2 will be needed as a back-up?

Cheers,

[Hunter27]

roger_cavanagh wrote:
I'm sure there's something that could be usefully added to your kit, or just stick the money in savings account as a deposit against the D90 or 1Ds.



Hi Roger

d90-I take it you mean an upgraded d60
1ds-is this the rumored studio model

Is there any news on what the specs of these cameras is to be.

My d60 has replaced all of my 35mm work, but i do miss my eos3 for performance and functionallity.

regards

nick

http://www.osborneimages.com

[Roger_Cavanagh]

Hunter27 wrote:
Hi Roger

d90-I take it you mean an upgraded d60
1ds-is this the rumored studio model

Is there any news on what the specs of these cameras is to be.

No news, plenty of rumours. :)

We all have to wait until Photokina.

[philgabe]

Why not keeping both and enjoying the advantages of digital when appropriate and film when appropriate? This is especially true when a film dropped at a lab can be processed and scanned on CD bringing an image at the same stage it is when you download it from the digital camera. Without going in pros and cons of film versus digital, a dirt cheap ten years old EOS 10 shoots sports much better than a $2000-$4000 depending on date of purchase D30 or D60 and latitude of film beats the hell out of digital sensors.

And then there's the external flash controversy....

Philippe

[gorham]

I'm keeping my Elan7. There are times when negatives are still called for. Not often but I don't think I'd get enough to justify not keeping it around; it's also comforting to know I have another body "just in case". If I had two digi-bodies, I might not. Well... yeah, I would still keep the film camera too.

The beauty of lens interchangeability! But don't I miss the 1.6 I've gotten so used to!! :)

Gorham

[bbcoach51]

I haven't used my 10 year old 10s in over a year and a half, but won't part with it because of the dirt cheap price it would bring. Have had great service from it and even if I only shoot a couple of roles of film in the next year or so, it is worth keeping. (I did sell my D30 when I got the 1D, price was falling way too fast. Selling price and price of a new D60 was too close) Butch

[worldclasscanine]

We have just joined the list as we are about to order a D60. I have heard a rumour of a new D90 too. I know no one can say either way if this is fact or fiction, but its a big purchase in Aust to buy a D60.
I have scanned some of your postings and I am beginning to wonder if this is the camera to buy, should I wait, or should I buy a D30 second hand ? We have an EOS 3 and EOS 30 as a backup unit with powerpacks, L series 70-200 L IS USM with convertor and 28-135 L USM IS, along with a few extra canon lenses. Any advise on the D60, particularly shutter lag, or any other information that may help us make a decision on this unit, or any information on the D30 would be a help.

[Hunter27]

In my experience I haven't noticed any perceived shutted lag. I make sure that I shoot on the continiuos mode (3fps) and I don't have display info turned on. (seems to slow the progress on the camera when shooting single shot on display info)

regards

nick

http://www.osborneimages.com

camera D60

[gorham]

worldclasscanine wrote:
We have just joined the list as we are about to order a D60. I have heard a rumour of a new D90 too. I know no one can say either way if this is fact or fiction, but its a big purchase in Aust to buy a D60.
I have scanned some of your postings and I am beginning to wonder if this is the camera to buy, should I wait, or should I buy a D30 second hand ? We have an EOS 3 and EOS 30 as a backup unit with powerpacks, L series 70-200 L IS USM with convertor and 28-135 L USM IS, along with a few extra canon lenses. Any advise on the D60, particularly shutter lag, or any other information that may help us make a decision on this unit, or any information on the D30 would be a help.

I shoot with the D60 and it's faster than I am!

I shoot single shot with a variety of lenses. No "L" ones but I use the 28-135 IS (does that come in an "L"? I didn't know that). Anyway, no lag at all. Also, I've had no big issues with slow AF and I shoot sports including indoors with no flash. I'm going to be going to some pretty dim gyms, though, an have ordered an ST-E2 to use alone. Once I learn how. ;)

I'd be happy to answer specifics but as far as lag goes, it's no different at all from my Elan7.

Yup. It's a big purchase but the feeling I get from the more thoughtful posts (?) is that it's likely to be a couple of years before Canon introduces another model. They're not caught up on this one yet and it's wildly successful. Why would they do it sooner!

From my FWIW department and hope it helps.

Gorham

[AustinPhotoNet]

i havnt used film since i got the d60,,, i will keep the 35mm as a backup on a shoot since i dont have a second digital camera and 35mm bag is smaller than my 645 setup. curretly there is no real need for me to use film on any project.

farid
austinphotonet

[Rudi]

gorham wrote:
Yup. It's a big purchase but the feeling I get from the more thoughtful posts (?) is that it's likely to be a couple of years before Canon introduces another model. They're not caught up on this one yet and it's wildly successful. Why would they do it sooner!


They did it with the D30, and they WILL do it with the D60, and the camera after that. Canon HAVE to do this, in order to keep up with the competition. Everyone else is bringing out new cameras to try and outdo the competition, so Canon have to keep up (not that they haven't done a good job so far! :)).

I think Canon would have been quite happy to sell the D30 for a couple more years, but got wind of the fact that Nikon were developing the D100, and had to make the sensor 6MP, just to hold their market share. Surely they didn't want to get caught with their pants down like Nikon did when Canon released the D30... Nikon had no camera model at a comparable price and targeted at the same market audience at the time! Canon sold a LOT of D30's because of that... :)

It is a fact of life that the digital photography world is going to move at a fast pace for a few more years, maybe for a lot of years yet! What it means, is that when you want a camera, BUY it! You can always wait until the next model comes out, and buy that, but there will ALWAYS be a next model coming out really soon, at least for the next few years... you could wait forever!

[oops]

AND.....I have come to the HUGE realization since I stepped into the SLR arena that my body is obsolete as soon as I peel it out of the box. (Don't even go there, Rudi).:)

My lenses are my most expensive and lasting investment, by far. Canon cannot (?) shipwreck the millions of ES lenses in the hands of their loyal supporters. They will, however, stay abreast of the competition with their bodies. And for that, I am thankful.

I have no problem letting this marketing giant entice me with a new way to make my Canon lenses come alive as never before. I can't wait! I have dumped so much money so far with lenses, etc. that I am ready for the next step and another $2,000 or so for a new body simply pales in comparison.

My D30 "baby" may become my "rain camera". Kinda like that pair of "rock skis" you waxed and treated like gold a short few years ago.

In keeping with the post: Film? What's that? Was that the stuff we used to take to Wal-Mart years ago?

[gorham]

Realizing the absolute futility of speculation....

Do you really think Canon'll introduce a new digital model in less than 2 years?

It wouldn't have made any difference to me in my decision to get the D60 anyway. Not to mention that I'm not likely to be able to afford their next offering anyway. I'd have to assume the next foray will be into the high end models again. Maybe alternate between D30/60 range and the 1D area.

It'll be interesting to see. Bodies? Lenses? Ah, the acquisitive nature stirs again! :)

Gorham

[Jerry White]

Great thread but it begs the question; "what are you shooting?"

I shoot medium format (Mimaya) and 35mm (Canon). I'm considering the D60 but question whether or not it will be able to replace my mf film for portrait work. (95% of what I shoot are portriats)

I love the ability the "digital darkroom" offerers but would having my mf film scanned by the lab and returned on cd give me the same quality as a RAW file?

Then there is the turn around time invoved. Digital is immediate - film anywhere from 1-4 weeks depending on lab.

Just some of the questions rolling around in my head as I consider jumping into digital.

Jerry

[Rudi]

Oops wrote:
AND.....I have come to the HUGE realization since I stepped into the SLR arena that my body is obsolete as soon as I peel it out of the box. (Don't even go there, Rudi).:)



..... OK, but it really depends on the box... :D

[Rudi]

gorham wrote:
Realizing the absolute futility of speculation....

Do you really think Canon'll introduce a new digital model in less than 2 years?



I have VERY good reason to believe that Canon will come out with a 1D upgrade at Photokina this September! I'm kinda banking on it, as that will most probably become my next digital SLR body. (There is also very good reason to believe that it will be a full-frame sensor in that particular camera).

We'll only have to wait a few short weeks and see for ourselves... :)

[rampe]

I just read somewhere that computer hardware is losing 50% it´s value on 16 months or viceversa the power goes up with that 50% and same time.

Somebody also said that it´s not exactly true nowadays if think only computers.

What about digital cameras. I think that the evolution goes on even faster than that!

I have count my prices so that I can change my camera to a latest model after one year. I just hope all the customers understand these facts. But, we can also look positive. They get better quality at the same price.

My dream hardcore camera would be like 1D, about 6 pics/sec., full frame, +20 pic buffer, +30Mb tiffs and cmos cell. Of course from now on the manufacturers have to develop more sharper lenses because of the quality of the digital cells and the detail they can achieve with a good lens.

BTW, I have not thouch a film camera for a 7 months. Weard....!?

[Rudi]

rampe wrote:
I have count my prices so that I can change my camera to a latest model after one year.

I have approached this a little differently. I bought a DSLR when I was sure that the specs were high-enough for what I needed. 3 megapixels is a sweet spot, IMO, where the output is good enough to print at A4 and even at A3, if you know what you're doing. (I have seen much larger prints than that from a D30, and they were still "photographic" quality, maybe resampled, but still good-looking!) I figure even though my D30 will be considered obsolete in the future, it will still do the job that I determined to be acceptable for my needs.

That is why I wasn't tempted to buy the D60, not just because of the resolution increase, anyway. The D60 has some improvements that I like, but not enough to make me want to upgrade. The 1D successor OTOH, will most probably be the camera that makes me spend some more money on a digital SLR... I will still keep my D30, though, as a second digital body. I like the D30, and besides, it's worth nothing now anyway - why take the financial loss when I can keep and use a perfectly good camera? (For the life of me I cannot understand those people that sold their almost-new D30's at a huge loss to buy the D60 when the D60 was announced.)

YMMV, of course... :)

[gorham]

I agree. I don't plan to upgrade; it's like continuing to check prices after you found something on sale. You'll sometimes find it at a better price but who cares? You own it - be happy! I'm sure I wouldn't be the happy D60 camper I am today if I'd already had a D30. But I'm so happy with my first DSLR that I can't imagine wanting to make a change in bodies for quite awhile. The camera's body that is. My own's a mess and I'd certainly like to upgrade it.

Gorham

[worldclasscanine]

okay folks, then what is the overall feeling of the D30 and the D60, I understand that the D60 has made a leap and as you all would agree, thats always going to be the case, the new model must be superior to the older one, or is it truly better in this case. The D30 has been out there for a little while, there seems to be a lot of died in the wool D30 people or is it just a matter of that they haven't got around to upgrading yet to the D60 and still plan to. Its a bit like Volvo drivers, there are many who still believe the best Volvos where built 10 years ago.

In case you are wondering, we shoot outdoors and in twilight for canine events ( dog shows, agility and the like). Flash is an essential ingredient each time we go to an dog event as they never finish before dusk.

[rampe]

The debate between D30 quality vs. D60 is a neverendingstory...

The new DSLR bodies will be always better than predecessors. Now the difference is big but maybe after somebody announces a full frame body with a resolution that gives those 40 Mb files, everything slows down or stops. Or maybe not. We don´t know how this computer technology works. We just have to wait.

In the meantime I have decided to stick with this marketing bull**** and go with the flow! Digital images are the future and we have to follow the big lines the manufacturers offer to us.

BUT, which is negative side of this digitalization is that manufacturers are giving hints of their new products a way before it´s possible to have those:( I had pretty good contacts in Finland so I got that D60 on may/june. But I think even now there are so many people waiting those and now maybe canon will announce that D90 is coming maybe next spring. And after that nobody buys those older models from retailers and everybody is pissed off. Retailers have to dump their prices. Customers are waiting something which will eventually come at least 6 months late from the first delivery date. It´s only a competition between Canon and Nikon. Nothing more. Customers would be satisfied for more adequate rate of time they have to update their cameras.

****! We should all buy Leica M3 without lightmetering and stick with Tri-X. Right?

[Hunter27]

Marketing is the Key!!!

Canon or Nikon, could easily have the 8-10 megapixel camera to market at any time they wish.

The D1 could have easily been 6meg but then who would buy the new updated D1s (when this vaporware arrives). The D30-D60 is a kind of non event. Both do the job they were designed to do, it's just up to the individual to decide were they fit in. For me working as a pro the D60 does the job of almost all my film situations but is nowhere near as usable as my EOS 3... but hey I get by... and when the more functional higher mega pixel cameras arrive, yes I will be purchasing. But if your demands are such that your d30 does the job why upgrade?

Canon know that there are people like me outhere and will feed me with better products when they know that I'm ready to purchase, just as I did with the D60.

Film will still be used for a long time yet... demand and marketing will see to that but for sure the digital revolution is well and truly here and now.

Dump the film camera? it depends on what your demands are. Here is very good digital, film comaprision site... its interesting reading http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF7.html

Nick

http://www.osborneimages.com

[Rudi]

rampe wrote:
****! We should all buy Leica M3 without lightmetering and stick with Tri-X. Right?


Well, they are re-releasing the M3 all over again... :)

[darrell]

Seems like the best unit would be one that doesn't start flashing busy halfway through a tumbling pass, like the d1, has super fast auto focus and prediction like the 1v, runs all day long on the dual batteries like the D30, more consistant flash metering would help, at a price around the d60 range .Until then I don't see anything worth replacing the D30. I suppose the A2 would make a good back up, but then my kodak dc120 makes for some pretty good images if you're not going higher than 3x5 or web only work. Guess thats what I get for not specializing. I seem to shoot everything from studio and weddings to sports and landscape. Even a little bit of "art" that usually gets rejected by the so called "experts" When you can rent the expensive glass to fit the ocasion, it makes it even better.