Sensors REALLY that fragile?

[wibbly]

Ok,

I KNOW (or at least believe to be true):

1 Surface scratches can build up over time

2 The sensor 'glass' cover is virtually in the same focus plane as the sensor. And there IS a glass over all (?) DSLR sensors these days.

3 You can't polish out scratches on the sensor glass (!)

4 Dust behind the sensor cover glass is a much bigger problem

BUT

5 Isn't the 'glass' over the sensor pretty hard? It ought to be.

6 It's pretty hard to scratch glass with gentle wipes even with some dust on in (rather than 'grit')?

7 Are we in reality being a bit too woried about scratching the sensor when cleaning it?

8 Isn't the statement from the camera manufacturers just legally based so the user has no redress should the camera be returned with a scratched sensor cover because the user's done something really stupid?

Also

9 Is the sensor silicon surface sealed (or coated)? Or is the silicon actually exposed to the air behind the (glass?) cover and other filters?

10 Ok I know it's not MY camera I'd want to prove this on one way or the other!

11 Has ANYONE been known to damage a sensor when cleaning it?

W

[Scottes]

In my opinion, the answer to all of this is: Do you really want to take a chance?


I betcha the Canon warranty doesn't cover sensor cleaning by the end user, so if it got damaged you could be out a camera. And I believe it's the anti-alias filter that you're actually cleaning, not the sensor itself. And a key point is that (I'm pretty sure) there are some coatings on that to reduce reflection. You might not scratch the glass but if you scratch the coating - which is much easier to do - then you have done a decent amount of damage.

So... Why take a chance? Do it correctly and you're not taking much of a chance at all, but you should clean it correctly.

[Cadwell]

It's an interesting question. Whilst I am going to remain ultra-careful when cleaning my own sensor... does anyone know of a case of someone who has damaged their sensor when cleaning it?

[wibbly]

Does anyone send their lens back to the manufacturer to have the front or rear element's dust removed?

They have all sorts of special coatings on them too, but we're all happy to 'scrub away' with all sorts of pens, cloths and potions. Many own lenses that cost in excess of the body they're attached to...

So why are we so worried about sensors?

W

[DocFrankenstein]

So why are we so worried about sensors?
Cause even if you have 10 deep scratches on the front element, it's gonna show on the final image only as 1% loss in detail.

If you have a scratch on your sensor plate, it's gonna show ALL THE TIME.

Is it a good reason to be worried? I dunno.

My sensor is still a cherry. :?

[wibbly]

What about the rear lens element? Presumably this attracts dust a bit like a sensor?

W

[Jon]

Like the front element - anything to that may cause a slight overall degradation of quality. Something messing up the sensor will be localized, and always there.

[WorldCountries]

Actually, I think I did just damage the sensor in my 30D, and naturally I'm just sick about it. Usually the large Giotto Rocket blower will get rid of almost all of the dust, but this time I had a couple of spots that would not come off, so I used the Micro-Tools 14 mm SensorWand with Eclipse. I believe what happened is that the Eclipse solution did loosen a welded dust particle, and no doubt it got drug across the bottom portion of the sensor with the wand. Now, if you hold it in the light just right you can see a very narrow streak stretching over half way across the surface along the bottom about 1/4 of the way up from the bottom. It shows up quite markedly as a smear in any images taken of the sky from about F11 on.

This was quite a surprise since I've cleaned the sensor 3-4 times previously with no problems at all.

Has anyone actually had to replace a sensor on a 30D? I'm wondering what the cost will be, as I shoot tons of stuff on a tripod at F22 for max depth of field.

[Jon]

I'd try another wet cleaning or two - you may have just smeared whatever it was across the sensor, leaving residue but not a scratch. You haven't anything to lose by giving it another wet cleaning or so and see if it gets better.

[WorldCountries]

I put a new PecPad on the wand and lightly went over that spot several more times. There might be some slight improvement. The first shot is of the sky at F22, and the second is the same shot with high contrast. I guess I should try to find a camera shop who will take a look at it. I've heard replacing the sensor is quite expensive, although I'm not sure if that means $500 or $1000, or what exactly.

[BestVisuals]

Man, replacing the sensor has got to be as serious as putting a new engine in your car. Let's hope it's not that bad. What you posted did look like scratches rather than residue. Maybe you could get it to Canon for an assessment...

[WorldCountries]

Yeah, I just called the service center in California, and they won't say how much it would cost to replace the sensor. You send the camera in, then wait 2-3 days for them to send you an estimate, then go from there. I even called back and got a second rep and got the same spiel. I guess they are trained not to say anything about cost until they actually have the camera.

So I'm going to take the camera out this weekend and so some landscape stuff at F16 or better and just see how much of a problem this is going to be qualitatively. The smear totally disappears at F11 and it's really only apparent even at narrower apertures when the sky appears across the scratches.

I just snapped this shot of my neighbor's RV at F22, and, as you can see, you see nothing in the way of either the smear or the dark spots on the right. Still, it's not pleasant to see such a fine piece of equipment with a flaw like this one --- especially when I did it myself somehow.

[Billginthekeys]

you do NOT have to replace the sensor itself, only the glass filter in front of the sensor. if canon wont do it/itll cost too much, check these guys out www.lifepixel.com they will replace the glass filter (at a price).

[WorldCountries]

Wow, thanks. That's the kind of tip that can probably save hundreds of $$$.

[Billginthekeys]

heres the more specific link: http://www.lifepixel.com/shop/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=64

glad to be of help

[GeneMan88]

Wow! Those are looking like scratches to me. We're you putting a lot of pressure onto the wand while you were wiping? With the Copperhill wet cleaning kit, the instructions say one pass across the top half, move down and reverse pass for the bottom half of sensor... no back and forth wiping. I've only "wet wiped" my 1D sensor a couple of times, most of the time it's the rocket blower. I've also used the DustAid kit... seems to work pretty well, though I've heard there might be issues with some of the newer sensors being used in 5D's.

[WorldCountries]

In fact, I just called LifePixel.com, and the cost for replacing a scratched sensor glass for the 30D is only $350. I feel much better now, thanks.

[WorldCountries]

Wow! Those are looking like scratches to me. We're you putting a lot of pressure onto the wand while you were wiping? With the Copperhill wet cleaning kit, the instructions say one pass across the top half, move down and reverse pass for the bottom half of sensor... no back and forth wiping. I've only "wet wiped" my 1D sensor a couple of times, most of the time it's the rocket blower. I've also used the DustAid kit... seems to work pretty well, though I've heard there might be issues with some of the newer sensors being used in 5D's.

I'm not sure what I did wrong, to tell you the truth. The articles I read said to use about the same pressure that you use when writing with a good ball point pen, so that's the rule I tried to follow. My best guess is that the wet solution did loosen something that I then drug across the glass with the wand. I did use the back and forth wiping you described, though, but without a lot of pressure. After this experience, I believe I will go for more frequent blowing versus wet cleaning. I just may not be the right person to be doing that...

[Titus213]

Interesting that the charge for the Canon filter is $100.00 more than for a Nikon. Must be the way they are built.

I'm glad to hear you're relieved. If it was me my gut would be hurting right about now....:lol:

[PrimoPup]

I have cleaned my sensors all the time never with a problem, the secret is to not let it get so bad that you have to use 20 pec pads in one session to clean it.
I put a Kimiwipe on a sensor wand once a month with 2 drops of Eclipse or E2, i go east to west one time, turn it over and go east to west again, done that's it. In the mean time when ever i am changing lenses all day at the end of the shoot i always do a blower. If my corners get bad i will make one pass with a sensor klear pen, problem solved.

[Lightstream]

It makes $12.50 at my local Canon service center look like a bargain. All I need to do is screw up once, and that'll buy me what, FIFTY cleanings?

And there's virtually no downtime, I pop in before lunch, check the camera in, and go and eat. I need to eat.. food BEFORE photography ;) then show up, pay up, and leave with clean camera.. plus they do my finder as well, which is the tough part. The 350D's finder gets a LOT of dust inside it that is very hard to blow out even if you remove the focusing screen. (guess who has tried)

[joeseph]

And there's virtually no downtime, I pop in before lunch, check the camera in, and go and eat. I need to eat.. food BEFORE photography ;) then show up, pay up, and leave with clean camera
oh man I wish Canon New Zealand could even come close to doing that! minimum wait is around 20 days currently.. :rolleyes:


Back to damaged sensor filters - yes I've stuffed one and no they're not too expensive to replace in the big scheme of things. (see my signature for story)
Guess the moral of story is to avoid like the plague changing lenses in environments that are likely to scratch the surface if something gets stuck on the IR filter (e.g. sand etc...) By the way it may or may not be glass, but there is a coating on it that is pretty easily scratched.

[Lightstream]

Also, blow out the sensor before you start cleaning.

Usually, a healthy dose of the rocket blower fixes most things. I have no qualms about that.. that's safe, clean, easy and officially supported by Canon. They said try the bulb blower in the manual, if that fails talk to them.

[Pinto]

So they replace one little piece of glass for $350.00 and everybody thinks that's inexpensive? Sounds like a 10 minute job. What a deal.
How much does the glass cost? I think someone ought to buy a few cheap, beat up bodies and practice replacing the sensor glass. Could be a great money maker.

[GeneMan88]

So they replace one little piece of glass for $350.00 and everybody thinks that's inexpensive? Sounds like a 10 minute job. What a deal.
How much does the glass cost? I think someone ought to buy a few cheap, beat up bodies and practice replacing the sensor glass. Could be a great money maker.

Check this out... here's a section that shows you exactly how to do it yourself:

http://www.lifepixel.com/ir-tutorials/canon-20d-digital-infrared-conversion-instructions.htm

It doesn't look like it takes 10 minutes.... as a matter of fact, I think there's a high risk of screwing something else up. Hmmm... a $350 filter replacement that could cost you as much as the cost of a new 5D if you botch it up. In the instructions, it even notes that you may have to open the camera body again if you find that there's too much dust between the filter and the sensor. I'd say, it's cheaper to let them do it, at least you can go back to them if there's a problem.

[Billginthekeys]

So they replace one little piece of glass for $350.00 and everybody thinks that's inexpensive? Sounds like a 10 minute job. What a deal.
How much does the glass cost? I think someone ought to buy a few cheap, beat up bodies and practice replacing the sensor glass. Could be a great money maker.
ohh, they have no problem with you doing it yourself. its hardly an easy or foolproof job. they seem to be pretty confident they wont be having troube getting business as they show you exactly how to do it yourself on their site. i dont think most poeople would take the risk. you have to dissasemble the entire camera just to get access to the sensor. lots of soldering and desoldering, and other very fine technical stuff. as for you comment that it would be a great money maker, i doubt those guys would argue there :lol:

[Pinto]

Well, like I said, buy a couple of junk bodies to practice on, and if you've got any skill, pretty soon it's a 10 minute high profit job.
Disclaimer on high profit : Depending on what Canon charges for the replacement glass. :???:

[Geo]

I put a new PecPad on the wand and lightly went over that spot several more times. There might be some slight improvement. The first shot is of the sky at F22, and the second is the same shot with high contrast. I guess I should try to find a camera shop who will take a look at it. I've heard replacing the sensor is quite expensive, although I'm not sure if that means $500 or $1000, or what exactly.
Whao men what kind of censor cleaning did you used ?, "Pecpad with eclipse"??, I ask you because I brought recently some same like your and cleaning my censor but I don't have this issue, so I am warrior about it.

[::John::]

Every 4 months, here, Canon rock into town with the mobile cleaning station and a few people to run it - and they clean the sensor while you wait.

If we can't wait for Canon to get here, there is a camera repair guy in town who does it for $60

[SkipD]

I'm not sure what I did wrong, to tell you the truth. The articles I read said to use about the same pressure that you use when writing with a good ball point pen, so that's the rule I tried to follow. My best guess is that the wet solution did loosen something that I then drug across the glass with the wand. I did use the back and forth wiping you described, though, but without a lot of pressure. After this experience, I believe I will go for more frequent blowing versus wet cleaning. I just may not be the right person to be doing that...The "back and forth wiping" is absolutlely the wrong way to clean optical surfaces. That method is almost guaranteed to either smear a soft material or scratch the optical surface if there is something hard trapped in the pad (or whatever you are using to wipe with).

As described elsewhere in this thread, the proper way to wet clean a sensor is to first blow off any hard debris (dust, sand, etc.) that can be blown off. Then, with a damp wiper assembly, go only one direction once. Use a completely new surface (the opposite side, for example) to go across again. Then change the wiper to provide absolutely fresh surfaces for any additional passes.

This is essentially the same way I have always cleaned lenses, and I have never damaged one yet.

[cdifoto]

11 Has ANYONE been known to damage a sensor when cleaning it?

W

I scratched the glass on my 10D after being too aggressive cleaning it.

[René Damkot]

In fact, I just called LifePixel.com, and the cost for replacing a scratched sensor glass for the 30D is only $350. I feel much better now, thanks.


According to Chuck Westfall, it's approx. $250...
Link (http://openphotographyforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24657&postcount=4)