Reporting my 3rd lockup with 20D

[Hatem Eldoronki]

I had the 17-40mm on the camera, and I let go into sleep mode. Then I turned the camera off, and switched lenses, to the 50mm f1.4.
Tried again to turn the camera on, but nothing happened at all...no info on the top screen, no buttons worked.
Did the battery removal, and all came back to normal.
I am starting to think that when the camera is in sleep mode, it predicts that when it comes back on it expects to find the same lens attached, but freezes when the lens properties do not match.

[dorkn]

I would be curious if you could make it happen again go to sleep turn off change lenses. Then if it does do it again. let it go to sleep wake it up then turn it off and change lenses and see what happens?

[CyberDyneSystems]

Wow... out of curiousity I went to try this...

Thus far I have had ZERO lockups on the 20D.

This morning I went to swap lenses before heading to work ith the 20D along just in case.. and I found that I had failed to turn it off the last time.. so it was asleep.

However I allways switch the camera off before swapping.. so I did.

Then I ran off to work. Now having read this I grabbed the 20D and turned it on ... the first time it has been on since going to sleep with another lens.

Guess what?

My first lockup!

Top LCD says 999 shots,. 00 aperture... I can't shoot or bring up the menu... and of course .. turning it off does nothing.. it stays ON, but useless.

Totally frozen.

MCouper.. this is huge! 8)

I think you may be on to something.

[robertdrake]

I think what we have here is a failure to communicate. The camera is having trouble dealing with new information.

[Hatem Eldoronki]

OK. I tried it again, and it happened again. I now really believe that when the camera is in sleep mode, it doesn't reset, or, doesn't re-adapt its functions/display to a different lens that's later mounted on it, without first waking up the camera BEFORE switching lenses..

Has anybody else have lockups without changing lenses or CF cards? Or lockups that weren't preceded by sleep mode?

[CyberDyneSystems]

I'd test this now.. but I'm work with one lens and one CF...

I really think you have hit the nail on the head here!....

I just put this thread at the top of our 20D "sticky" 8)

[Scottes]

So... if this is the case, then you should turn the camera off before swapping lenses.

But even if mcouper's hypothesis isn't correct, you should turn the camera off before swapping lenses.


Hmmm....

[tommykjensen]

MCouper.. this is huge! 8)

I think you may be on to something.

I just tried this too and guess what...


No lockup! So it is not consistant.

[CyberDyneSystems]

So... if this is the case, then you should turn the camera off before swapping lenses.

But even if mcouper's hypothesis isn't correct, you should turn the camera off before swapping lenses.


Hmmm....

Actually.. both Mcouper and I DID turn the camera off.. (it's called reading the thread.. look into it :wink: :roll: :lol: ) ...the key may be (more testing needed) the key may be that you need to "wake the camera up" from it's "sleep mode" BEFORE turning it off.

All of this is leading me to believe that Canon was really going down the wrong path with the 20Ds "never really off" feature.

If you haven't noticed yet.. when installing a CF card in a 20D that is TURNED OFF... upon closing the cover.. the CF card read LED comes on for a few short seconds..

I have no Idea what Canon was doing thinking it's camera needed this info when it is turned off... but there it is ..

...and just like the intro of the PC ATX power system that did not provide a true power off switch (unles you had one on the back of the power supply) this oddball "feature" may be the cause of some serious problems.

[CyberDyneSystems]

MCouper.. this is huge! 8)

I think you may be on to something.

I just tried this too and guess what...


No lockup! So it is not consistant.

We definately need to test more. It may not happen all the time.. BUT what if we do discover that this is THE cause of the lockups when it does happen?

[Jon]

We definately need to test more. It may not happen all the time.. BUT what if we do discover that this is THE cause of the lockups when it does happen?

OK - now I HAVE to get me one so I can test it too!

:{)#

[Scottes]

Actually.. both Mcouper and I DID turn the camera off.. (it's called reading the thread.. look into it :wink: :roll: :lol: )

Well I missed it in mcouper's message and I was too lazy to run yours through the spellcheck to decipher your typing.... :)


OK, OK. I apologize. You got me.


PS: Do I *always* have to read the *entire* message before commenting? That would limit my posts severely....
:wink:

[Scottes]

As to the "power never truly off" I'm sure that this has something to do with the 0.2 second start-up time of the 20D. I was pretty darned amazed when I heard 0.2 seconds, so it didn't surprise me when I saw the red light blink upon CF insertion.

So it's not a 0.2 second startup time, but rather a 0.2 second wake-up time. (However, I am *not* complaining!) It just takes a little more thought at times, maybe, like when inserting new RAM into that PC you mentioned. In the "old" days I would never unplug the PC as it was then no longer grounded. But with these new "never-off" PCs you *must* unplug it before installing RAM. Bummer.

[drisley]

I've had 0 lockups thus far after vigourously shooting about 600 pictures last week.
But, I'm going to reproduce what MC and CDS have done, and I will report back.

[Belmondo]

I thought for sure I'd suffered my first lockup. Turns out the CF compartment door was open.

I'm still lockupless.

[OviV]

Well I have had two lockups:

1) Camera off, removed, 28-135, attached 18-55, turn camera on, no power until I removed battery and re-inserted.

2) Camera off, removed, 50 1.8, attached 28-135, turn camera on, appears to be on but does not respond to controls until removed and re-inserted battery.

Ovi

[Perfect_10]

Maybe Canon should only sell the 20D with a kit lens super-glued to the mount .. that would stop the lockups :lol: :lol:

[cmM]

someone better forward this to canon!
I want all issues resolved by the time I'll order one! :P

[Perfect_10]

someone better forward this to canon!
I want all issues resolved by the time I'll order one! :P

don't worry .. Canon should have this all sorted out in six months or so :roll:

[OviV]

Firmware update from Canon is expected tomorrow:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=44167

[CyberDyneSystems]

Yep.. the 20D will be all sorted about a week after the 30D hits the streets... :lol:

[Jon]

Won't they have to call it the 40D, to avoid confusion with the D30?

[Ken Fong]

This 20D lockup thread raises an interesting question I have about my 10D:

With the camera off, I frequently will change a lens and hear the camera 'reacting' (like it is turning on) after the new lens is attached ...even when the camera is off. I'm always startled and rush to see if I left the camera on, but it wasn't. What is this reaction noise?

[CyberDyneSystems]

:lol: Could be... but what about the D60 and D70? Now that's confusing....

...don't forget the 7D....

Nikon's really got it bad with D1 D100 D1x D1H D2X D2H and... along comes D70?

It's almost as confusing as when in the 60's the US Military decided to start all over again on the numbering of Aircraft... we went from F104 to F4 in a matter of no time at all.... (in fact.. wasn't the F111 AFTER the F4??? )

...but for some reason they waited a while before implementing this in Bombers... with the B1 in te seventies

[drisley]

Well, I just tried to duplicate the problem.
Left 20D on until it powered-down. Then turned off, changed lens to 50F1.8.
Everything is flawless, no problems at all.
I also tried again back to the 135F2L, no problems at all.

I'm using a 512MB Lexar 12x CF card and 512MB Dane Elec 12x card with no problems in 600+ pictures, and multiple lens changes.
What are you guys that are getting lockups using? Perhaps the problem is also related to the super fast cards. I'm getting a Sandisk Ultra II this week. We will see what happens then.

[Jon]

:lol: Could be... but what about the D60 and D70? Now that's confusing....

...don't forget the 7D....

Nikon's really got it bad with D1 D100 D1x D1H D2X D2H and... along comes D70?

It's almost as confusing as when in the 60's the US Military decided to start all over again on the numbering of Aircraft... we went from F104 to F4 in a matter of no time at all.... (in fact.. wasn't the F111 AFTER the F4??? )

...but for some reason they waited a while before implementing this in Bombers... with the B1 in te seventies

And the F-117, as well. Actually, they didn't build any new bombers between the Buff and the Bone. The XB-70 never went into production, and they'd retired the B58 by then, along with most of the B-57s and B66s. Although, they made the Navy renumber the A3J to A5A - why didn't they make the AF renumber the bombers? (Actually, I heard it was because Strange Bobby McNamara couldn't cope with multiple a/c with the "same" numbers.) And the Herc lumbers along as a C-130 still.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Forgot about the f117... that is clearly the oddest one.. by then we were firmly entrenched with the f4 - f16 (f18 too? or was that after the 117?) ....

And of course in both the 117 and 111 neither were in fact "F" :roll: but rather "A" :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Jon]

Story goes it was under early development, and because it was a black program it escaped the transition so there wasn't a suspicious gap in the numbering. It was certainly contemporary with the F-14, -15, and -16 as far as development went. The F-17 and -18 may have overlapped at the tail end of thje dev. cycle, too. But what ever happened to the F-6, -7, -9, -10, -11 (I don't believe there were enough Tigers to be worth renumbering), and -13 (YF-12 was, of course, the Blackbird variant). I think the A- series ran straight, although I don't recall an A-2 or A-3 offhand.

[Hatem Eldoronki]

Ok guys,
I tried the same procedure again, and got no lockup, so I guess it is true that it's not consistent.
However, I had contacted Canon earlier today about this, and here was their response:

Dear Hatem Eldoronki,

Thank you for contacting Canon product support. I'm sorry to hear of
the difficulty you have encountered with the EOS 20D.

On October 1, Canon will release a firmware update to correct the "lock
up" issue found in a limited number of EOS 20D units. The update will
be available for download from the following website:

http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eos20d/eos20d_firmware-e.html

This firmware update (Version 1.0.4) incorporates the following changes:

1. Fixes the issue of the shutter not releasing.
2. Improves communication reliability when using some CF cards.

A full description of the new firmware and a set of installation
instructions are provided at the website noted above. You may download
the new firmware after supplying the camera's serial number at the site.



Please note the following important information:

The update requires the use of a CompactFlash card reader. It is not
possible to perform the update via a USB connection between the camera
and the computer.

Once the firmware update operations are finished, it will be necessary
to remove the battery from the camera and then reinsert it to have the
new firmware take effect. The new firmware version will be displayed as
soon as the update is finished, but it will function as the previous
version until the battery is removed and replaced.

Thank you for choosing Canon.


So hopefully it'll all be over tomorrow.

[drisley]

Although I've never had a lockup issue, that news is awesome mcouper.
Atleast Canon is listening to it's customers.

I was one of the first to buy the Nvidia Fx5900 video card last year. There were many reports on forums of problems with screen flickering and noise coming from the card when text was scrolled. Nvidia ignored both and refused to admit there was a problem. Many, many months later they came out with drivers to "fix" the flickering issue, but still refuse to admit there is a problem with the "scrolling text".

This is a refreshing thing to see.

[blinking8s]

no lockups here...should i update the firmware anyway? I dont see the need to, but maybe Ive just been lucky so far

[elbirth]

no lockups here...should i update the firmware anyway? I dont see the need to, but maybe Ive just been lucky so far

I was going to ask something like this as well to see what people had to say... I'm supposed to get my 20D next week, after the place gets a new shipment in on Monday from Canon... so I would think my camera might come with the new firmware, but even if it doesn't, would anyone recommend the people not experiencing problems update anyway?

[Hatem Eldoronki]

I am not 100% sure if you should update or not...unless you want peace of mind. It's not like your camera is going to be any less special: eventually all 20D's should have the latest firmware, in case any other issue arises...

[robertdrake]

Wonder if there is any way to backup the current bios in the event the new one is worse?

[dorkn]

How about people having lockup problems post there seriel numbers? and maybe track what lots may have the issuses? I just got my 20D yesterday from buydig.com I will have to see if I have any problems.

[Adam Hicks]

Ok I'm confused... Canon's a big company. Has anyone BEEN here?


http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eos20d/

What's with that main tagline above the camera? It isn't even a translation as it's a graphic, not converted text. Someone consciously made a logo that reads "Speed and Performance that Improve than ever" What the hell does that mean?

:P :shock: :P :?: :x :twisted: :?: :?: :?

[RDKirk]

Tomorrow in Japan or tomorrow in the US?

[drisley]

"Speed and Performance that Improve than ever"
:lol:
Whtat the... :?: :!:

One interesting note. As reported, I've put the 20D thru it's paces very thoroughly last week, and no lockups. But, I've been using the extra BP-511 battery I used to use on the Rebel. The camera is so darn efficient I have yet to try the BP-511a.

[Adam Hicks]

I just got my Battery Grip for the 20D in this week along with an extra 511a. What I need 2,000 shots between recharges for, I don't know :)

As my relatives say when they see the camera with the 100-400l on it "he's compensating for something."

Adam

[Hatem Eldoronki]

Wonder if there is any way to backup the current bios in the event the new one is worse?

Would it let you go back to an older FW version? I'm not even sure!

[robertdrake]

Wonder if there is any way to backup the current bios in the event the new one is worse?

Would it let you go back to an older FW version? I'm not even sure!

Can't think of any reason it wouldn't, its just a bios, right?

[DReb-MO]

Can't think of any reason it wouldn't, its just a bios, right?

Please advise as to how you might accomplish this. :?:

[elbirth]

Being a person that works in computer tech support, I would naturally think that "downgrading" to the original firmware would be quite hard, if not impossible. It MAY be possible, assuming you could get a copy of the original firmware to install on the camera as you would the new version... but I don't know if that's available anywhere other than a camera that hasn't been upgraded.

It's just the nature of firmware (computer hardware such as cdrom drives, etc have firmware) that it can be upgraded but not downgraded...

[CyberDyneSystems]

I would see no practical reason to flash a Canon bios back to an older version... thus far all the updates have been rock solid and only made improvements or added functionality.

But I have to disagree with Elbirth.. most motherboards can have the BIOS flashed back to older versions no problem what so ever.. I've done it dozens of times. In the wild world of hardware and software conflicts with thousands of possible conflicts.. on a PC there is often a good reason to rool back your Bios.

[Jon]

Depends on the install program. I've up/down/sidegraded BIOS on laptops repeatedly. In some cases I've had to disable the version checking. Certainly people aren't having any problems (mentioned here) shifting between the hacked and standard DR firmwares. That's not strictly comparable, but it may be an indicator. Of course, this is moot unless someone finds a downloadable copy of the current 20D BIOS to be able to downgrade to!

[elbirth]

I would se no practical reasoin to flash a Canon bios back to an older version...

But I have to disagree with Elbirth.. most motherboards can have the BIOS flashed back to older versions no problem what so ever.. I've done it dozens of times.

the BIOS, yes... but is what's on the camera actually a BIOS, or a firmware, as they call it? A BIOS can be flashed back, but I've never heard of a firmware being able to

[Jon]

A flashable BIOS is just a special case of firmware. Firmware's just an instruction set stored in rewritable, but normally protected static, memory.

[CyberDyneSystems]

BIOS = Firmare.. I agree,. it's all the same animal. But I know what you mean now Elbirth.. I've never tried to reflash say.. a CD-RW drives firmware...

Anyways.. in the case of previous Canon DSLRs.. the answer is YES you can roll back the firmware..

...thousands of DRebel owners have been playing ping pong with there firmware ever since the first version of the hacked BIOS hit the scene. (Now on it's third variation if I am keeping track) 300D owners have had no problems flashing back to the stock BIOS... of any version.

I would imagine the same is true of the 20D.

[elbirth]

ok, that makes sense, thanks for clarifying. I haven't used digital cameras enough to follow it and know that people have flip flopped between firmware before, and I don't see why the 20D should be any different in that regard.

My main concern was, in one particular case, there's a DVD burner that I have that can have the firmware upgraded to make it dual layer compatible (it's natively not dual layer). I've heard of cases where people upgraded and it's caused problems, but when they tried to downgrade, it basically ruined the drive and it was unusable... thus I've never tried downgrading computer hardware.

Perhaps the cameras are slightly different, I don't know.... either way, it's good to hear that you can downgrade if needbe

[Jon]

I can understand your concern. With a new device (be it DVD burner, computer, calculator, PDA, camera, . . . ) you can never be sure that reflashing the firmware will work both ways until someone's done it. Past performances suggest that Canon DSLRs are amenable, but Canon could always change things around (to prevent firmware hacks?) if they wanted. Of course, then they'd have to contend with a lot of bricks coming in for warranty service and they'd have to demonstrate that the problem was that the user had installed the hack and was trying to put back a legit firmware.

[RDKirk]

>>...thousands of DRebel owners have been playing ping pong with there firmware ever since the first version of the hacked BIOS hit the scene. (Now on it's third variation if I am keeping track) 300D owners have had no problems flashing back to the stock BIOS... of any version. <<

What they're doing is just flashing over the hack with the original BIOS. The reason that's possible is because as the last official Canon BIOS, it's still available on Canon's web site.

But Canon only keeps the last official BIOS on their site, so the problem would be getting a copy of the earlier BIOS.

[RDKirk]

>>What's with that main tagline above the camera? It isn't even a translation as it's a graphic, not converted text. Someone consciously made a logo that reads "Speed and Performance that Improve than ever" What the hell does that mean? <<

Here is the best place to check: http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/BeBit-e.html

At least it gives you a list to look at.

[Torcidas]

I try and swich lens few times and not 1 lockup problem.... Guess i'm lucky one :)

[RDKirk]

I try and swich lens few times and not 1 lockup problem.... Guess i'm lucky one :)

I think the problem is significant, but not really in the "majority" category. I've seen other problems with new cameras that reached the stage that you saw them as major headlines on the photo news sites and even hardcopy magazines. The problem with a number of forums is that a relatively small number of people can churn an issue into a bigger deal than it is. I have had no problems either, and I've run harsh, repetitive tests of every suspected cause I've read about. Zero problems of any kind--and I doubt I'm an unusual case. It's misery that seeks company, and they find it online.

When the camera had been out only seven days (counting the weekend), people were already complaining about a lack of response from the manufacturer, even while admitting they'd never even contacted the manufacturer (or had done nothing more than call).

I pre-ordered the camera knowing that pioneers often get arrows in the chest. I've been blessed not to have any problems, but if I'd had problems, I knew the job was dangerous when I took it.

Anyone seriously depending on their cameras to pay the mortgage should have at least four bodies--so a 20D with bugs should not be a problem for them. If a person doesn't depend on his cameras to pay the mortgage, then it's not really a problem. Cancer is a problem. HIV is a problem. Not having any money when the mortgage is due is a problem. A toy that locks up occasionally is not a problem. This 20D but is only an annoyance, and we know Canon is working to fix or get around it.

Then there are the non-existant "problems." People complain about the new battery grip being bigger (it's only 1mm thicker and deeper) and heavier than the old one (the 20D plus grip is actually 100 grams lighter than the 10D with grip).

People were complaining about the sound--as though the 10D was quiet (it isn't, as anyone who has heard a really quiet camera knows).

People complain because it doesn't work with a certain card. Did they try another card? No. They tried three different camera bodies, and none of them focused properly. Sounds like user error to me.

They complain about things they knew before they bought it. I'd rather the camera have a bigger buffer for RAW, and, yes, if anyone asks, I'll point out that there are times it might be a bother. But I knew about it before I bought the camera, so it's something I accepted up front.

But before the camera came out, I had stated even on this forum that all I wanted was a 10D with a more durable shutter, more accurate focusing, and a 250 volt flash sync--and I stated I'd be williing to pay $2000 for it. Well, that's the 20D, at $500 cheaper than I was willing to pay. Everything else, IMO, is gravy.

[Belmondo]

As I've said previously, the question is not whether or not a camera was rushed to market with bugs. The gestation period for new products is short these days because of the need to stay ahead of the competition. If things weren't moving so quicly, and if product cycles weren't so short, we could expect more develpment and testing before these things reach the market.

Having said that, I will repeat my opinion that the real test of Canon's commitment to delivering a good product will be found in how they respond to the problems. I bought the 20D based largely on my experiences with the 10D. Whether or not I buy a 30D will be the a result of my experiences with the 20D. Canon recognizes that, and they will make things right.

If not, they could lose a customer.

That they didn't get it perfect in the first go-round is not so much a concern. It's the price we've paid for demanding newer, better, faster, and sexier, and wanting it all today.

[Hatem Eldoronki]

RDKirk,
Ok. I agree with you that forums tend to magnify small problems, especially when someone who is not experienced starts complaining about something that turns out to be a user error.
The lockup issue in the 20D is, as you said, an annoyance, and not to be compared with HIV. Again I agree with you. And it doesn't bother me at all, since the fix is generally easy, and it doesn't stop me from taking a shot.
The problem however is that when this is a software issue, then every 20D must suffer from it, sooner or later. So when someone counts himself lucky, then that is rootless. If it were a hardware issue, then you'd be worried too, right?
The real question is: what if no one reported having problems with the 20D? Then they'll never be fixed. That's why we complain. And if that issue wasn't already widespread, you wouldn't have seen message board vistors mentioning it so often. Keep in mind that not all 20D users are as experienced as, say, most 1Ds users for example. It's an entry level pro DSLR, so you're bound to hear complaints. And why would a non-pro want to spend $1,500 and get an annoyance with it anyway? On the flip side, are you going to install the new firmware when it comes out? Of course you are, so that you're guaranteed that you're camera is 100% functional...
(P.S. I was showing my 20D to an old time pro-photographer friend of mine, who 'was' thinking about going digital. I just mentioned briefly the lockup issue, and his response was, "And how much did you spend on that?!" I told him it was really irrelevent, and he said, "You got lots of money?"!!! Of course I felt like he was belittling the camera!)

[elbirth]

I thought that as of yesterday the firmware upgrade was out? Unless I'm mistaken?

Anyway, in regards to your friend, mcouper, I don't mean anything personally against him, but the way he seems to have acted in response to the lockup issue is quite immature, IMHO. Maybe back in his prime days the film cameras came out of the factories flawless (very doubtful), but in today's world, as has been mentioned, companies are pushed to get products out on the market, and sometimes a flaw will be found. The fact of the matter is, with the firmware upgrade, it should no longer be an issue, so you haven't wasted your money on the camera anyway.

[Hatem Eldoronki]

elbirth, my thoughts exactly. If they put out new firmware, I'll install it. Otherwise, I still like the 20D, even if it never gets fixed. I used to have a car (BMW M Coupe) that had to go back to the dealer once a week to fix something, like the airbag lights, trunk doesn't open, numerous gas gauge malfunctions, check engine light....but I never complained in the sense that I hated the car...I just wanted it to work flawlessly and perfectly. Was that asking too much :lol:
OMG, I just realized that I complain about everything :shock:

[elbirth]

lol, yep, it's official.... you're a chronic complainer :P

[RDKirk]

RDKirk,
The problem however is that when this is a software issue, then every 20D must suffer from it, sooner or later. So when someone counts himself lucky, then that is rootless. If it were a hardware issue, then you'd be worried too, right?
The real question is: what if no one reported having problems with the 20D? Then they'll never be fixed. That's why we complain. And if that issue wasn't already widespread, you wouldn't have seen message board vistors mentioning it so often. Keep in mind that not all 20D users are as experienced as, say, most 1Ds users for example. It's an entry level pro DSLR, so you're bound to hear complaints. And why would a non-pro want to spend $1,500 and get an annoyance with it anyway? On the flip side, are you going to install the new firmware when it comes out? Of course you are, so that you're guaranteed that you're camera is 100% functional...

Software issues don't always appear in every case, and this one doesn't appear to. We users may never be told exactly what the root cause of the problem is. In fact, Canon may never discover the actual root cause--they may only have discovered a way to keep it from causing lockups (like trapping the error better).

Yes, if you have a problem, you take it to customer service. However, from what I could tell from the forums, very few complainers actually did that.

Moreover, heck, it does take some time. After each person with the problem has made a report (so that Canon has a real idea of the numbers) and been told "we're working on it," what good does continued kvetching do? The numbers will make them increase the priority--kvetching only gives the kvetchers heartburn.

[RDKirk]

RDKirk,
The problem however is that when this is a software issue, then every 20D must suffer from it, sooner or later. So when someone counts himself lucky, then that is rootless. If it were a hardware issue, then you'd be worried too, right?
The real question is: what if no one reported having problems with the 20D? Then they'll never be fixed. That's why we complain. And if that issue wasn't already widespread, you wouldn't have seen message board vistors mentioning it so often. Keep in mind that not all 20D users are as experienced as, say, most 1Ds users for example. It's an entry level pro DSLR, so you're bound to hear complaints. And why would a non-pro want to spend $1,500 and get an annoyance with it anyway? On the flip side, are you going to install the new firmware when it comes out? Of course you are, so that you're guaranteed that you're camera is 100% functional...


Software issues don't always appear in every case, and this one doesn't appear to. We users may never be told exactly what the root cause of the problem is. In fact, Canon may never discover the actual root cause--they may only have discovered a way to keep it from causing lockups (like trapping the error better).

Yes, if you have a problem, you take it to customer service. However, from what I could tell from the forums, very few complainers actually did that.

Moreover, heck, it does take some time. After each person with the problem has made a report (so that Canon has a real idea of the numbers) and been told "we're working on it," what good does continued kvetching do? The numbers will make them increase the priority--kvetching only gives the kvetchers heartburn.

[Hatem Eldoronki]

Software issues don't always appear in every case, and this one doesn't appear to. We users may never be told exactly what the root cause of the problem is. In fact, Canon may never discover the actual root cause--they may only have discovered a way to keep it from causing lockups (like trapping the error better).

I couldn't agree more.

Moreover, heck, it does take some time. After each person with the problem has made a report (so that Canon has a real idea of the numbers) and been told "we're working on it," what good does continued kvetching do? The numbers will make them increase the priority--kvetching only gives the kvetchers heartburn.

:lol: :lol: Again, agreed!

[Mark Kemp]

Well I tried it,

The update worked and the camera is still working normally as far as I can tell.

I never had a lockup before so I guess it isn't a definitive test but I let it time out, switched lenses and it came straight back on - so far so good.

If it locks up in the future I will let you know.

[robertdrake]

There's a rumour in dpreview that Canon is going to recall the first batch of 20Ds (with serial numbers below 0420107xxx) because of a cmos issue, which is apparently connected to the freezing issue. Any reason to believe these reports?

[drisley]

This may not mean much but my serial is below that and I've had the camera for 1 1/2 weeks with no lockups or problems at all.
And that includes alot of intensive shooting, cf card changes, many different lens changes.
I think I will email Canon and find out what is up.

[RDKirk]

There's a rumour in dpreview that Canon is going to recall the first batch of 20Ds (with serial numbers below 0420107xxx) because of a cmos issue, which is apparently connected to the freezing issue. Any reason to believe these reports?

I read that rumor, but that's not exactly what I'd gather from it. A local dealer told him Canon was recalling cameras. If completely true--including the part about Canon service denying a recall when that user called them himself, it actually means that Canon is calling back cameras from the dealers' shelves, not from customers.

If they do recall cameras from users, I suspect it's something other or more than the freezing issue, which is what the firmware fix is for. They wouldn't do both for the same problem.

But I guess that means I need to register now so they'll know where my 03.... camera is.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Guys.. Why bombard Canon with E-mails based on a crap Rumor from DPReview.. ???


Why ???

Register.. :wink:

...and watch forums for a real announcement...

If and if a recall is actually REAL, we'll know about it in about 15 minutes!

Heck I'll post a huge billboard sticky with blinking lights if need be ...

Let it lie and don't be the goof ball that beleives this stuff while it's still just a rumor... :lol: :lol:

[defordphoto]

I always remember years back when there were oil shortages and several other consumer item shortages.

Johnny Carson delivers his monologue and states, "The next thing you know, there will be a shortage of toilet paper."

The next day, there was exactly that, a shortage of toilet paper because people did not get the joke, expanded on some non-fact they heard and over-reacted.

Only believe what you hear from Canon.

[Jack W.]

I always remember years back when there were oil shortages and several other consumer item shortages.

Johnny Carson delivers his monologue and states, "The next thing you know, there will be a shortage of toilet paper."

The next day, there was exactly that, a shortage of toilet paper because people did not get the joke, expanded on some non-fact they heard and over-reacted.

Only believe what you hear from Canon.

I remember that Carson thing too. :lol:

[robertdrake]

There's a rumour in dpreview that Canon is going to recall the first batch of 20Ds (with serial numbers below 0420107xxx) because of a cmos issue, which is apparently connected to the freezing issue. Any reason to believe these reports?

I read that rumor, but that's not exactly what I'd gather from it. A local dealer told him Canon was recalling cameras. If completely true--including the part about Canon service denying a recall when that user called them himself, it actually means that Canon is calling back cameras from the dealers' shelves, not from customers.

If they do recall cameras from users, I suspect it's something other or more than the freezing issue, which is what the firmware fix is for. They wouldn't do both for the same problem.

But I guess that means I need to register now so they'll know where my 03.... camera is.

If Canon were recalling cameras from dealers shelves, that would make sense, they're recalling them to update the firmware not because of some serious hardware defect.

[JoeTampa]

BTW, I have had only two lockups, both of which occured when trying to use the 50mm 1.8. No other lens has caused a problem (yet); I've used the 100mm macro 2.8, 28-200, & 16-35. Haven't tried the 100-400 yet.

[robertdrake]

BTW, I have had only two lockups, both of which occured when trying to use the 50mm 1.8. No other lens has caused a problem (yet); I've used the 100mm macro 2.8, 28-200, & 16-35. Haven't tried the 100-400 yet.

Lockups after firmware upgrade or not?

[JoeTampa]

No upgrade.

[Nic]

Did this happen before or after the firmware update??

[friscomgm]

Damn - i didn't upgrade my firmware because I hadn't experienced the issue. Today it reared it's ugly head.

On assignment today when switching from my 50 f/1.8 to my 70-200 f/4L it locked up on me. Had to pop battery and reinsert and all was well.

Looks like I am now also looking forward to a REAL firmware upgrade that won't kill random 20D's ASAP.

[dcas]

I've had my 20D for 3 days and I had a lockup already.
Firmware version 1.0.5
Using Canon EFS 17-85mm IS USM lens.
Using ScanDisk 1GB Ultra II CF card.

Taking pictures in P mode.
Storing pictures in RAW+JPEG (L fine)
Using Flash
Taking pictures fast but not holding down exposer button.

Camera locked up.
Pciture displayed on LCD monitor.
No activity light for CF card.
No buttons would work.
Could not turn camera off.
After about 2 minutes I did something, not sure what, and ERR 99 displayed.
Removed batt and reinserted and camera has worked fine since.

Just sent email to canon support.

[Mike H]

I always remember years back when there were oil shortages and several other consumer item shortages.

Johnny Carson delivers his monologue and states, "The next thing you know, there will be a shortage of toilet paper."

The next day, there was exactly that, a shortage of toilet paper because people did not get the joke, expanded on some non-fact they heard and over-reacted.

Only believe what you hear from Canon.

I remember that Carson thing too. :lol:

In the midst of a crisis in New Orleans (Hurricane Betsy directly hit the city), then Mayor Vic Schiro made the statement on television "don't believe any false rumors unless they come from me." He spent the rest of his life hearing jokes about it. It may outlive Bill Buckner's error to help lose the World Series for Boston.

Just thought you had to hear that one. :D

Mike H

[juliedarc]

New to the 20D, but I left mine on and battery pack (quantum compact turbo) discharged, then when I recharged battery the camera does not turn on at all. But this does not change when I take out battery coupler and insert it again. Could I have broken something? Camera will not turn on at all.

[Jon]

New to the 20D, but I left mine on and battery pack (quantum compact turbo) discharged, then when I recharged battery the camera does not turn on at all. But this does not change when I take out battery coupler and insert it again. Could I have broken something? Camera will not turn on at all.Before despairing, pull out the back-up battery (it's in the main battery compartment behind a little door) and let the camera sit for at least several minutes. You'll lose all your settings, but it may revive when you put the batteries back. I'd also try putting in a different main battery. Do you have the original Canon one? BTW - is this a new,or used, 20D?

[juliedarc]

Thank you for responding. I replaced the small backup battery, and removed the main battery (well, the coupler that is connected to the fully charged battery pack) for quite some time while I charged the battery pack and re-inserted it. The camera is used, so I have only what came with it. I do not have a regular battery yet. I have been relying only on the battery pack. Regardless of what I do it will not turn on. Everything worked perfectly until the battery pack lost it's charge. The battery pack looks like it is working perfectly, I just have no power at all in the camera. I had it sitting for a couple of months, but turned it on and pressed the shutter a few times during this period and it seemed to be working perfectly (this is when I accidentally left it on, and the pack totally discharged). ???

[benhasajeep]

Is the battery pack actually putting out propper voltage?

I ruined a laptop battery doing nearly the same thing. I turned the computer off but left the battery in it. I went on vacation for a month. During that time the battery drained. I got home laptop would not work. I charged the battery overnight (plugged in the computer). I didn't notice a thing until I tried the computer on battery one day. Nothing. Showed fully charged. Even the indicators on the back of the battery showed fully charged. But it was dead. Ruined it.

Not sure about the Quantum set up. But maybe the battery cells are dead but the charger thinks they are charged?

[Jon]

Sounds like it is time to get that new BP-511. Not a guarantee, but this has happened in the past when people had dead batteries (and it's possible the Quantum's gone south). You may need a charger for it as well. There are third-party batteries and chargers available at almost anywhere; I've gotten them at Best Buy, for instance. Sterlingtek appears to have the best prices on aftermarket batteries.

[AmericanFirst]

Get a BG-E2... power for everyone. I have yet to lose the load, taking pictures with this grip installed. "Double power, double your fun, with double good, double BP-five-one-ones." (okay... so no jingle bells for me, this year. :o )

Oh yeah, no lock-ups, either...

[Volk]

Actually.. both Mcouper and I DID turn the camera off.. (it's called reading the thread.. look into it :wink: :roll: :lol: ) ...the key may be (more testing needed) the key may be that you need to "wake the camera up" from it's "sleep mode" BEFORE turning it off.

All of this is leading me to believe that Canon was really going down the wrong path with the 20Ds "never really off" feature.

If you haven't noticed yet.. when installing a CF card in a 20D that is TURNED OFF... upon closing the cover.. the CF card read LED comes on for a few short seconds..

I have no Idea what Canon was doing thinking it's camera needed this info when it is turned off... but there it is ..

...and just like the intro of the PC ATX power system that did not provide a true power off switch (unles you had one on the back of the power supply) this oddball "feature" may be the cause of some serious problems.

OK, I think that I can answer the question about inserting a CF card when the camera is off. Opening and closing the CF door alerts the camera to a change of state, and updates it's static RAM configuration. The camera is not in sleep mode, rather it it "off". Opening and closing the CF door just alerts the camera to a change in configuration, so when it is turned on again, it is aware of how many pictures are taken on the installed card, and how many are available.

It's pretty much as simple as that. My 30D sitting for weeks on end does not burn up battery capacity. The camera really is "off". It is simply built to be aware of configuration changes that would otherwise interfere with it's rapid start up time.

Volk

[PhotosGuy]

(it's called reading the thread.. look into it Did you happen to notice that this thread started back in 2004? ;)