Disappointed?

[AdamLewis]

I shouldnt have gotten my hopes up :(

I was afraid the guys in the rumor forums would be right when they were saying it would just be a new rebel

[M24]

I'm feeling the same way.

Perhaps Canon felt that they needed to compete with the Noink D40x?

Why would 20-30-40D owners even care?

At the end of the day, it looks like Canon has only tossed us a bone by gleaning a few bits from the G9 and 40D and then dropped them into the existing XTi/400D.

I don't think I'll the only one who will be really disappointed if we will still be waiting for a successor to the 5D after PMA.

[BugEyes]

I'm quite dissapointed as well.
Had hoped for something in the Nikon D3 class and was prepared to pay that price.
All we get is another one in the housewife class.

[DVS_WiNdz]

I'm quite dissapointed as well.
Had hoped for something in the Nikon D3 class and was prepared to pay that price.
All we get is another one in the housewife class.

They still haven't announced the new 5D yet.. so you shouldn't be disappointed.. and the price won't be anywhere near the D3

[Jim G]

Hey, just look it as one model closer to the eventual upgrade ;)

[AdamLewis]

lol I want to get a 5D and realistically only need the regular one but if I newer one came out with DigicIII Id really be tempted to get on it.

[ALaS]

Blah, and us XTi owners are like, "WTF BALLS!" I shoulda sold mine by now. ..where are you 5D!?

[WillOPhotos]

I bought my 5d end of last year and happy I have all the shots I wouldnt have got without it I dont mind losing a bit of cash upgrading when the replacement comes, I was dissapointed too hearing about the 450d :(

[wilvoeka]

Had hoped for something in the Nikon D3 class and was prepared to pay that price.


I believe that would be the 1D Mark III.

[HyperYagami]

I don't get it...so there's no 5D upgrade...and suddenly all your future photos will become inferior or something?

[BugEyes]

I believe that would be the 1D Mark III.

Not for me, I wan't the FF and have no use for the super high speed of the mk3.

I want a 5D with better AF and ISO performance, some extra speed wouldn't hurt but 10 FPS is overkill for my needs.

The 1Ds mkIII is too expensive for me and have more mp than I want.

[DVS_WiNdz]

Not for me, I wan't the FF and have no use for the super high speed of the mk3.

I want a 5D with better AF and ISO performance, some extra speed wouldn't hurt but 10 FPS is overkill for my needs.

The 1Ds mkIII is too expensive for me and have more mp than I want.

Wait till tomorrow.. it should be announced then.. if not.. then you'll have to wait till the end of the year.

[MaDProFF]

If this is true, and we have another 9 months to wait, then Me too Disappointed, as I really wanted a FF, and I do not want the 1DSMK3 it is too heavy for what I want, and too bigger MP as well, I was quite looking forward to the 5D successor, Makes the D3 even more attractive with that new 14-24mm lens and the 17-55mm

Anyhow, I going to think on it now for sure

[MaDProFF]

I don't get it...so there's no 5D upgrade...and suddenly all your future photos will become inferior or something?

LOL... what if you don't have a FF in the first place, or even a camera,
I have been waiting as I don't have a 5D, but really want a FF,

[DVS_WiNdz]

If this is true, and we have another 9 months to wait, then Me too Disappointed, as I really wanted a FF, and I do not want the 1DSMK3 it is too heavy for what I want, and too bigger MP as well, I was quite looking forward to the 5D successor, Makes the D3 even more attractive with that new 14-24mm lens and the 17-55mm

Anyhow, I going to think on it now for sure

PMA '08 is only days away.. we'll definitely know by then.

[Duder]

If the purported specs for the 5D mkII turn out to be true (ie FF/16mp/14-bit-DIGIC III,etc), it'll be near enough my ideal camera. That's why I'm so eager for it's release.

[FlyingPhotog]

I'm really having a hard time deciphering just what it is that Canon is trying to accomplish with this new body.

I'll grant you that 12.2Mp (plus all the other bells & whistles: Live View, Digic III, Spot Meter, etc...) is pretty impressive for a camera that will be (we hope) many people's first dSLR, but (IMO) they've thrown a wrench in their own upgrade chain by migrating the storage to SD and a totally different battery.

So what happens when Joe or Jane Q Public wants to move up and finds out that they need an entirely different style of memory card and their extra battery (or batteries) isn't/aren't upward compatible?

I can't shake the feeling that Canon is getting a little scattershot and disjointed in their approach to new gear and that the two new bodies from Nikon maybe caught Canon off guard (or at least caused some kind of re-trenchment.)

JMO, but it almost feels like Canon have sort of tossed in the towel for this round and taken the easy route of just stuffing all their new goodies into one package then crank up the one thing that inexperienced buyers drool over: Mega Pixels.

At the other end of the spectrum, we have the two new lenses that have been announced that are (I think) specialty heaped on specialty. We had 1001 threads regarding the 1200mm f/5.6 that was at B&H but frankly, is an 800 f/5.6 all that much different in terms of to whom it will appeal?

And what would be the ideal application for the 200mm f/2? Sure, f/2 is damn fast but at only 200mm? And even on a 1DMkIII it's 260mm effective FOV. Still kinda on the short side.

I'm just sharing my confusion. I'm here as much to learn about the photo industry as I am anything else so shred some or all of the above as you see fit.

[neil_g]

sorry which body are you talking about?

[FlyingPhotog]

Sorry, I was referring to the new XSi

[neil_g]

right okay the 450.

tbh i think the 450 is probably aimed at people upgrading from P&S which mainly have SD. the logical upgrade from existing 350/400 users is up to the 30/40D im my honest opinion.

[DVS_WiNdz]

sorry which body are you talking about?

The new XSi

[The_Camera_Poser]

I don't get it either. Why nothing to compare with the consumer-grade 18-200 lenses? Wouldn't that make them more money? A stronger version of the 17-85 with less barrel distortion? An EF-S prime like the Sigma 30/1.4 ? An "L" EF-S 17-55/2.8 IS? I mean, are they really thinking they are going to weather the current world financial woes in a strong position with a 200/2 and a fixed 800? They would have done better to redo the 100-400 and make it a constant f/4, and put out a fast USM L macro lens to compete with the Sigma 150/2.8.

UNLESS.. they are going to be releasing a whole new raft of cameras- just like the 400D heralded, including a new 40D and one or two off-shoots of the 5D, as well as some new glass, and they are waiting until later in the year to do it. Now that would make sense to me.

[WillOPhotos]

^^^same here that and the 1dmkIII would suit me perfect :lol:

[simwells]

You do have to remember that all the Nikon's under the Dx00 line have always been SD cards, and you rarely hear complaints about that. I'd think if anything it'll encourage the number of people wanting to go from a P&S to an SLR. You have to remember with a camera like the 450D that that is it's main market, people with the one or maybe two lenses who use it in green box.

So yes they may have sacrificed something for us more interested in photography and cameras but I'd imagine it'll only help increase their overall sales.

[Cadwell]

This camera will have been in R&D for at least 12-18 months. It isn't any kind of reaction to Nikon's latest offerings.

As for the 200mm, 200mm is fine for it's intended purposes. Any longer would really be too long.

[FlyingPhotog]

I don't get it either. Why nothing to compare with the consumer-grade 18-200 lenses? Wouldn't that make them more money? A stronger version of the 17-85 with less barrel distortion? An EF-S prime like the Sigma 30/1.4 ? An "L" EF-S 17-55/2.8 IS? I mean, are they really thinking they are going to weather the current world financial woes in a strong position with a 200/2 and a fixed 800? They would have done better to redo the 100-400 and make it a constant f/4, and put out a fast USM L macro lens to compete with the Sigma 150/2.8.

UNLESS.. they are going to be releasing a whole new raft of cameras- just like the 400D heralded, including a new 40D and one or two off-shoots of the 5D, as well as some new glass, and they are waiting until later in the year to do it. Now that would make sense to me.

Thanks for picking up on where I was trying to go with my original post.

I'm starting to buy into the 3D/7D split theory simply because I think Canon have painted themselves into something of a corner with the 5D. They can't give it too much more capability or it will impact 1-series sales. They can't dumb it down because it's set a very high bar for IQ. I firmly believe it's a very unique and special camera that is destined to be discontinued. Some of it's qualities will go to a slightly uprated camera and some have already moved down the food chain to the new 450.

[FlyingPhotog]

This camera will have been in R&D for at least 12-18 months. It isn't any kind of reaction to Nikon's latest offerings.

Fair enough...

As for the 200mm, 200mm is fine for it's intended purposes. Any longer would really be too long.

That was my question though. What do people think IS it's inteded purpose?

[Cadwell]

Well it's predecessor the 200mm f/1.8 was popular amongst indoor sports photographers, indoor event photographers and that sort of thing. I'd kinda like one for shooting indoor sports with... If it were 300mm that would be too long for most of the venues.

[The_Camera_Poser]

Well it's predecessor the 200mm f/1.8 was popular amongst indoor sports photographers, indoor event photographers and that sort of thing. I'd kinda like one for shooting indoor sports with... If it were 300mm that would be too long for most of the venues.

That ain't going to pay the power bills. EF-S 18-200/4-5.6 IS pays the power bills! (Not that I'd want one...) 100-400/4 IS L, allowing AF with a 1.4 TC with no taping on any Canon DSLR would send folks running to the banks.

[M24]

I'm thinking that if we don't see a 5D successor via PMA, then Canon has either dropped the ball entirely, or has gone back to the boards with some new drawings.

Over the holidays, I spent some time with a friend who had recently jumped on the Noink bus in buying a D300 and their 18-200 VR lens. It was quite a rig, no doubt. The user interface was still a punter at best in my book, but the camera was a solid performer and the 3" LCD screen had amazing resolution.

We did some side-by-side test shots with close to equivalent glass (with my 40D) and what I found, after handing off cameras, was that the Noink was a damn good camera. I still like my 40D over the D300, but the image results were mixed. In some cases, my 40D with 10 megapixels looked as good or better than my friend's D300, but at the end of the day it was a toss up; there were too many images that were too close to call.

In some cases, my friend would agree that the blues looked better in my 40D images, and I would agree that the reds looked better, though in some cases, we both agreed that they were over-vibrant with his D300.

What's the point with respect to the 5D's successor? It is simply this: the D300 is nearly $2K and, while it's a fine rig; if Canon can produce the replacement to the 5D in the mid to high $2K range, Canon will blow Noink's doors off, assuming that whatever it is performs as advertised.

I'm very happy with my 40D, in spite of all I went through to get a working combo. That said, however, I want a FF body to round out my gear and believe very strongly that Canon can and should produce a successor to the 5D under $3K. Canon has clearly laid out the future with the 1DsMKIII, the successor to the 5D should be, IMO, within reach of the pro-sumer class.

'guess we'll know soon enough.

-M

[FlyingPhotog]

You do have to remember that all the Nikon's under the Dx00 line have always been SD cards, and you rarely hear complaints about that. I'd think if anything it'll encourage the number of people wanting to go from a P&S to an SLR. You have to remember with a camera like the 450D that that is it's main market, people with the one or maybe two lenses who use it in green box.

Good Points... But, will people who are just dipping their toes into the dSLR waters be willing to deal with everything that goes with wrangling 12.2Mp files?

- Bigger and Bigger Memory Cards (SD in this case)
- More storage capacity
- What about computer upgrades and the ongoing chase for more computing horsepower. The jump from 6-8 Mps to 12.2 Mps isn't (IMO) an insignificant increase. (I grant you that not everyone who buys a 450 will be generating full-res RAW files but if and when they do, I think some will be in for a real shock at how much more information they'll have to wrestle.)

So yes they may have sacrificed something for us more interested in photography and cameras but I'd imagine it'll only help increase their overall sales.

I wonder if they aren't giving first time dSLR buyers too much. To steal an idea from my world, both a Cessna 172 and a Cessna Citation are capable of flying 120kts but there's a reason the 172 is a trainer and the Citation isn't. It would appear that there is a lot of capability in this new camera but I think some of it will needlessly intimidate at least some people right out of buying one.

We shall see...

[neil_g]

lol im finding all of these threads a little amusing.. canon arent daft, they spend probably millions a year on R&D. they know exactly what theyre doing when it comes to what the release and when.

so in the meantime lets all pick up our existing (albeit now slightly more obsolete) kit and go out and take some pics..

:)

[TeeTee]

Have you actually looked into the details?

The Rebel range never shared batteries with the XXD or XD cameras so whats the difference now? As for the SD card matter, buyers are much more likely to be willing to fork out more cash for a new media format on the prosumer level rather than the entry consumer level.

The 200mm f2 is f2... what focal length do you expect at f2 that doesn't weigh & cost as much as a car? Honestly can't think of a use the 200 1.8 is equally good at. I'm not sure of the price or size comparison either.

The 800m f5.6 is leagues ahead of the 1200 f5.6 with regards to usability. See price, size, and weight.

Canon isn't Canon because they don't do their market research. I have confidence that they know what they're doing at least with regards to selling cameras.

[Cadwell]

That ain't going to pay the power bills. EF-S 18-200/4-5.6 IS pays the power bills! (Not that I'd want one...) 100-400/4 IS L, allowing AF with a 1.4 TC with no taping on any Canon DSLR would send folks running to the banks.

Canon don't hold their market leading position by just catering to the consumer grade buyers out there... they need to keep the pros happy as well. The 200mm/1.8 L has been selling at way above its original list price ever since it was discontinued. That means there's a market there (admittedly a specialist one) and Canon are moving to fill it with this new lens.

As for the 100-400mm constant f/4... I've been waiting for Canon to make a decent 400mm zoom for some time. Canon don't seem to be very keen on telephoto zooms for some reason... perhaps they prefer to lock people into the big primes.

[MaDProFF]

lol im finding all of these threads a little amusing.. canon arent daft, they spend probably millions a year on R&D. they know exactly what theyre doing when it comes to what the release and when.

so in the meantime lets all pick up our existing (albeit now slightly more obsolete) kit and go out and take some pics..

:)

I Disagree, I think they are really dam right stupid sometimes, (1DMK3 Focus)
And spending x millions does not make everything 100% right for sure, infact I would say it makes it worse sometimes as some people just feel they have to warrant all that money spent to justify their existence.
I would almost certainly go out and buy a D3 and a couple of the small lenses up to 135mm if I have to wait till the end of the year for a replacement 5D

[FlyingPhotog]

Canon don't hold their market leading position by just catering to the consumer grade buyers out there... they need to keep the pros happy as well. The 200mm/1.8 L has been selling at way above its original list price ever since it was discontinued. That means there's a market there (admittedly a specialist one) and Canon are moving to fill it with this new lens.

As for the 100-400mm constant f/4... I've been waiting for Canon to make a decent 400mm zoom for some time. Canon don't seem to be very keen on telephoto zooms for some reason... perhaps they prefer to lock people into the big primes.

I think there is a grain of truth to your thoughts about long zooms Vs long primes. I'm sure there's a whole lot of institutional and whole-lot buying going on by the major press organizations that goes on behind the scenes and that's big, big bucks (Yen?) to Canon.

[vondo]

Have you actually looked into the details?

The Rebel range never shared batteries with the XXD or XD cameras so whats the difference now? As for the SD card matter, buyers are much more likely to be willing to fork out more cash for a new media format on the prosumer level rather than the entry consumer level.

The 200mm f2 is f2... what focal length do you expect at f2 that doesn't weigh & cost as much as a car? Honestly can't think of a use the 200 1.8 is equally good at. I'm not sure of the price or size comparison either.

The 800m f5.6 is leagues ahead of the 1200 f5.6 with regards to usability. See price, size, and weight.

Canon isn't Canon because they don't do their market research. I have confidence that they know what they're doing at least with regards to selling cameras.

You're wrong on the batteries, but right on the rest. The 300D uses the same batteries as the 20/30/40/5D.

And as for the amount of information you have to wrangle, my 6MP 300D required a 1 GB card to be moderately useful (120 RAW/230 JPG shots). At the time I bought my 300D, such a card was a $150 purchase. So the new body requires a 2GB SD card to be as useful. I think the last one I bought was $13. So much cheaper it's not funny. I just buy a couple of decent sized cards for whatever device I have (I have a P&S too) and use a storage device to deal with any more storage needs beyond that.

I definitely don't see the move to SD as a problem. I imagine we'll see that in the 50D and newer cameras too. I'm fine with that.

[neil_g]

so you dont think introducing effectively an upgrade for P&S users (by using SD rather than CF) and effectively forcing 350/400D users to jump to 30/40D for their next body isnt good business sense?

[DVS_WiNdz]

so you dont think introducing effectively an upgrade for P&S users (by using SD rather than CF) and effectively forcing 350/400D users to jump to 30/40D for their next body isnt good business sense?

Upgrading from P&S is pretty nice, considering they are using SD cards. There are many people upgrading from P&S to DSLR nowadays. I guess you can call that a smart move for Canon.

[TeeTee]

Ah yes, you're quite right on the battery note.

To be honest I prefer the CF, or ideally the option for both. I find CF to be more reliable and faster however I'm not technically inclined enough to discuss the matter with any validity.

As you said however with prices of memory dropping faster than camera megapixels are increasing, the only deterring factor is computer processing speed which does get hogged up by RAW files quite badly.

[MaDProFF]

I'm really having a hard time deciphering just what it is that Canon is trying to accomplish with this new body.

I'll grant you that 12.2Mp (plus all the other bells & whistles: Live View, Digic III, Spot Meter, etc...) is pretty impressive for a camera that will be (we hope) many people's first dSLR, but (IMO) they've thrown a wrench in their own upgrade chain by migrating the storage to SD and a totally different battery.

So what happens when Joe or Jane Q Public wants to move up and finds out that they need an entirely different style of memory card and their extra battery (or batteries) isn't/aren't upward compatible?

I can't shake the feeling that Canon is getting a little scattershot and disjointed in their approach to new gear and that the two new bodies from Nikon maybe caught Canon off guard (or at least caused some kind of re-trenchment.)

JMO, but it almost feels like Canon have sort of tossed in the towel for this round and taken the easy route of just stuffing all their new goodies into one package then crank up the one thing that inexperienced buyers drool over: Mega Pixels.

At the other end of the spectrum, we have the two new lenses that have been announced that are (I think) specialty heaped on specialty. We had 1001 threads regarding the 1200mm f/5.6 that was at B&H but frankly, is an 800 f/5.6 all that much different in terms of to whom it will appeal?

And what would be the ideal application for the 200mm f/2? Sure, f/2 is damn fast but at only 200mm? And even on a 1DMkIII it's 260mm effective FOV. Still kinda on the short side.

I'm just sharing my confusion. I'm here as much to learn about the photo industry as I am anything else so shred some or all of the above as you see fit.

Don't understand your logic here, actually 1D's now have both, so if you buy this new body and upgrade later to a 1D, you can use the SD card, but more so, the actually price of SD cards are pretty miniminal now days anyhow, as is CF cards, and they will drop in price even more, and get bigger

Same for a battery really, it is not like you don't get a new battery with a new body anyhow, and most new comers to Dslr don't need a spare battery , as they will last a lot longer on a full charge than any P&S

BUT really worries me, is they have just released the 40D, as a 10mp camera, on reading a few posts quick here have added nearly everything on to this new body, that was added to a 40D I think is a bit silly and more, Canon just seem to really want to sell bodies, and not care about how they are treating their Customers or their feelings. short term they may sell a few more bodies, and flood the 2nd hand market, but long term they will hurt the Customer base.

[simwells]

BUT really worries me, is they have just released the 40D, as a 10mp camera, on reading a few posts quick here have added nearly everything on to this new body, that was added to a 40D I think is a bit silly and more, Canon just seem to really want to sell bodies, and not care about how they are treating their Customers or their feelings. short term they may sell a few more bodies, and flood the 2nd hand market, but long term they will hurt the Customer base.

It's basically the same as the 400D vs 30D though, and I didn't hear anyone complain. The better body is the main thing you're paying for plus speed.

[Dragos Jianu]

When they release the 300D Canon reps stated in the press conference that their goal was to become the 1000pounds gorilla of the camera industry.
The 450D/40D and no 5D2 is prof that they finally achieved that!!! Canon has indeed become the big, fat, lazy, DUMB gorilla of the industry :(
Just wait a couple more days and we'll replay the 40D vs D300 all over again when the Nikon D60 and D90 are released :(
Even Pentax beat Canon this round :(

[The_Camera_Poser]

Well- all I know is that I can't see "the big picture" in their marketing strategy. Has Nikon always outsold them in Japan?

At the end of the day I'd never sell my stuff and go over to Noink, not unless something dramatic occurred.

Still those sample pics look pretty noisy to me...

And as for corporate saavy- are you kidding? These yahoos are the same schmucks as we are, just a bit more edubecated and way over-paid. A couple of reminders of how corporate R&D has failed....

1) The NEW Coke
2) For that matter, the "Coke is it" ad campaign- and how long did it take to add the sh- to the -it?
3) Those short-backed Caddies they sold in the 80's, to someone....
4) The "K" Car
5) The Nova- heavily marketed in latin America, where "No va" means "doesn't go"
6) The research that lead GM to make the decision not to replace those side-saddle gas tanks- opps
7) the Pinto
8) Smokeless cigarettes
9) Non-alcoholic beer
10) And last but not least, the milk-replacement formula marketing campaign in Africa in the 1970's that tried to sell milk formula to mothers who couldn't afford it by giving out enough free samples to allow the mother's milk to dry up, and then leave her with no milk and no way to afford a replacement. I remember the boycotts as a kid, almost ruined one of the biggest multinational food corps.

Let us not put too much faith in our corporate brothers and sisters- they have made a few mistakes over the years.

[The_Camera_Poser]

When they release the 300D Canon reps stated in the press conference that their goal was to become the 1000pounds gorilla of the camera industry.
The 450D/40D and no 5D2 is prof that they finally achieved that!!! Canon has indeed become the big, fat, lazy, DUMB gorilla of the industry :(
Just wait a couple more days and we'll replay the 40D vs D300 all over again when the Nikon D60 and D90 are released :(
Even Pentax beat Canon this round :(

LMAO

[herbe_nelson]

When they release the 300D Canon reps stated in the press conference that their goal was to become the 1000pounds gorilla of the camera industry.
The 450D/40D and no 5D2 is prof that they finally achieved that!!! Canon has indeed become the big, fat, lazy, DUMB gorilla of the industry :(
Just wait a couple more days and we'll replay the 40D vs D300 all over again when the Nikon D60 and D90 are released :(
Even Pentax beat Canon this round :(
sometimes I think that you are just here to add your negative canon comments to every thread.

Everyone is discussing something and then you *nearly* always find a way to say that canon is bad.

Neutral conversations are so much better! :)

If you want to bag canon then the 1D forum on dpreview is full of threads everyday with people saying how much they hate canon.

Sorry but if you keep posting stuff like this in every thread it gets annoying.

Nelson

[Bollan]

When they release the 300D Canon reps stated in the press conference that their goal was to become the 1000pounds gorilla of the camera industry.
The 450D/40D and no 5D2 is prof that they finally achieved that!!! Canon has indeed become the big, fat, lazy, DUMB gorilla of the industry :(
Just wait a couple more days and we'll replay the 40D vs D300 all over again when the Nikon D60 and D90 are released :(
Even Pentax beat Canon this round :(

Honestly i can't agree more with you on this one. Canon is lagging BIG time. Even Samsungs new releases got me more excited to be honest!

[cptkoi]

I like Canon kit but it does appear that they have taken their eye off the ball .............


h

[herbe_nelson]

was really looking forward to a possible new FF camera (7D?). It doesn't need 16mp. Just same 5D sensor and similar some slightly better specs like live view and dust shaker, plus the weather seals. Sort of what they did to the 40D over the 30D.

Hopefully there will still be canon announcements but i doubt it. Perhaps they are refining a competitor to the D3?

oh well :(

Nelson

[User69]

I'm really having a hard time deciphering just what it is that Canon is trying to accomplish with this new body.

.....

So what happens when Joe or Jane Q Public wants to move up and finds out that they need an entirely different style of memory card and their extra battery (or batteries) isn't/aren't upward compatible?

......



Large number of compact camera use SD, so i think is more easy to upgrade now.
Upgrade from 400D or like camera to 450D have no much sense for me.

U.

[Hermeto]

So many big business experts, so many great marketing strategists in this thread!
Too bad some of you guys didn’t apply for a job at Canon, preferably for the CEO position.. :rolleyes:

[cosworth]

That was my question though. What do people think IS it's inteded purpose?


Weddings, portraits on FF and indoor sports. It's pretty obvious.

[cosworth]

Honestly i can't agree more with you on this one. Canon is lagging BIG time. Even Samsungs new releases got me more excited to be honest!

Resources. Canon is a large company. But with finite resources. Canon is putting extra hamsters on the wheel.

Just be patient you guys. Have any of you worked a for a billion bollar company? QA, R&D, Development etc. all need to have a focus. I'm sure Canon has something in the works that will knock your socks off.

[chauncey]

Those pros that you refer to only make up about 5% of Canon sales, although those white lenses are a brand selling point for the masses.
Maybe a white body...

[fensterbme]

Canon is in Business to Make Money
What most people on boards like this fail to understand is that Canon is primarily in business to make $money$, they do this in lots of difference sectors, not just camera's. In their photographic business Point and Shoot's and entry level DSLR's are way makes them most of their cash and by far and away moves the most product. So Canon is going after that market and making sure their consumer DigitalSLR offering is competitive or ahead of others.

The amateur measurbators who have 30,000+ posts, have a mid-level DLSR and a all kinds of gear specs in their sig. represent a VERY small percentage of their overall sales, but from the way they talk you'd think they were the majority of the customer base. I mean so what if Canon is a bit slow here or there, what are you going to actually switch systems over it? Didn't think so... Canon doesn't either so sit tight, even better go outside and actually use the camera you have now. I mean how many of us really thinks that it's the gear that holds you back from making truly great photos?

Rebel Is a Fine Product at the Price
I think the new Rebel/450D is a great product with IS finally in the kit lens for it's price point. I think it will sell very well and keep Canon near or ahead of the pack in that segment. As for moving to SD, are you people really thinking that's an issue... Memory cards are close to free and if someone is going out and buying a new camera (moving up from the Rebel to a more advanced DSLR) do you think they are going to sweat buying a few $20 memory cards when they are shelling out thousands? Get real folks... they want to make sure people moving from P&S to DSLR have an easier transition as for them it would more of a notable change.

On the 5D Replacement:
The 5D is an awesome camera, I have very few complaints with mine and it has no direct competitor. It is long in the tooth and could use a refreshing, but I think Canon was right to replace the Rebel first as it a more financially significant market segment than the 5D, which as I understand it never sold in the numbers Canon was hoping.. As for when the 5DMkII will appear... Photokina is my guess, I mean it will be the oldest camera by a long margin at that point. I was somewhat surprised that there was no replacement announced but not blown over by it.

[Bollan]

Resources. Canon is a large company. But with finite resources. Canon is putting extra hamsters on the wheel.

Just be patient you guys. Have any of you worked a for a billion bollar company? QA, R&D, Development etc. all need to have a focus. I'm sure Canon has something in the works that will knock your socks off.


I know you're right, i guess they have something up their sleeve. They must if they want to defend their strong position in the semi-pro & pro market. Also the MKIII problem could probably have set their development in the pro sector back for a few months.

Even if i am more than happy with my current setup i must admit that i am amazed how conservative they are lately in the DSLR section. 2 new lenses at PMA and not exactly every mans bread to be honest, thats even more surprising.

I have never worked for a billion bollar company i prefer to run my own instead ;-).

[bigcountry]

with the exception of the original rebel, why would anyone w a rebel series upgrade to another rebel series.

I mean really, if you are going to be a hobbyist then just get a rebel and stick w/ it. if you are going to get serious, then buy a serious camera.

The reason why you are so disappointed is due to the all of the STUPID rumors that a bunch of ignorant MORONS posted that never had any basis of truth as a foundation.

Canon delivered to people looking to upgrade from a point and shoot to a dslr, which would be the masses. But for everyone that has a rebel xt or xti, would you really upgrade to another rebel? That is like taking a half a step forward.

[JCH77Yanks]

with the exception of the original rebel, why would anyone w a rebel series upgrade to another rebel series.

I mean really, if you are going to be a hobbyist then just get a rebel and stick w/ it. if you are going to get serious, then buy a serious camera.

The reason why you are so disappointed is due to the all of the STUPID rumors that a bunch of ignorant MORONS posted that never had any basis of truth as a foundation.

Canon delivered to people looking to upgrade from a point and shoot to a dslr, which would be the masses. But for everyone that has a rebel xt or xti, would you really upgrade to another rebel? That is like taking a half a step forward.

This is exactly right on. I also made this point in another thread. If anything, the word "upgrade" essentially means to move upward, not laterally.

[cosworth]

It's not about upgrade, it's about "new clients" and organic growth. Canon wants upgrades sure it floods the used market with good cameras that Canon can get battery and lens revenue from.

Canon is doing just fine and is making good cameras. Chill everybody. The difference between bodies is pretty small as I demonstrated with my ISO test recently. Features are nice, but hey, do you REALLY need a 9 inch LCD and another 4 print buttons'?

[The Hardcard]

Also,upgrade means fighting for those among the tens of millions of compact P & S owners who decide they want a DSLR. Once you got them in that category, especially after they buy a couple of lenses, many will march up the line.

The smartest thing Canon could do is point new buyers to these forums. They get more sales from that than any new body they release.

[Mr. Clean]

Resources. Canon is a large company. But with finite resources. Canon is putting extra hamsters on the wheel.

Just be patient you guys. Have any of you worked a for a billion bollar company? QA, R&D, Development etc. all need to have a focus. I'm sure Canon has something in the works that will knock your socks off.
Shoot, the Mark II, 5D, 1Ds Mark II etc STILL knock my socks of. The 40D is an awesome camera, a VERY good revision of the 30D and worth every cent.

All of those aforementioned cameras have more talent bred into them than the majority of people using them. Myself included.

Compaining about it is ridiculous. Are you a gearhead, or a photographer.

[regandarcy]

Puh-lease. I am sorry...but all this whining is getting damn annoying. Plus it's pretty ignorant. Change is a part of life.

Besides, people who have a really old 300D or so who were planning to upgrade are NOT going to be stopped from doing so because of the switch to SD. I'm sorry.

And complaining about the change in battery size is another non issue. This happens ALL the time. Besides, batteries don't last forever.

Sell your old camera. Give it to a friend or family member. Or just hold onto it until you have enough to buy a few more SD cards. Sheesh. :-)

[ed rader]

Shoot, the Mark II, 5D, 1Ds Mark II etc STILL knock my socks of. The 40D is an awesome camera, a VERY good revision of the 30D and worth every cent.

All of those aforementioned cameras have more talent bred into them than the majority of people using them. Myself included.

Compaining about it is ridiculous. Are you a gearhead, or a photographer.

both.

or else i would the quit the gear forums and take some of the hypocrites and exalted ones with me :D!

ed rader

[gjl711]

... Are you a gearhead, or a photographer.
Can’t we be both? I love photography both for fun and at work. But I also like forums and forums are great for gear head thought. This would be a boring place if we all just sang the praises and there are plenty of forums on this board to discuss just the artistic aspects of a picture where rarely is t mentioned what type of gear is used. This forum I focused on hardware and hardware talk.

But all the negative waves coming at the 450 kind of surprise me. I know many were disappointed that a new 5D was not announced but that’s not a good reason to slam the 450.

[ed rader]

Can’t we be both? I love photography both for fun and at work. But I also like forums and forums are great for gear head thought. This would be a boring place if we all just sang the praises and there are plenty of forums on this board to discuss just the artistic aspects of a picture where rarely is t mentioned what type of gear is used. This forum I focused on hardware and hardware talk.

But all the negative waves coming at the 450 kind of surprise me. I know many were disappointed that a new 5D was not announced but that’s not a good reason to slam the 450.


the guys who like to slam the pixel peepers, gearheads and fanboys are right here among us and they think they are different....or they just like to whine.

you make the call :D!

ed rader

[musicmaster]

I'm even so slightly surprised Canon hasn't made a 50/1.8 with USM for around $120 or so

[statsman]

Interesting parallel to the situation when Nikon announced the D40x (some five months after announcing the D40). Many Nikon owners had pretty much the same complaints as some Canon owners have today. Five months later the D300 and the D3 were announced. You would be hard pressed to find many Nikon owners complaining now.

[simwells]

I'm even so slightly surprised Canon hasn't made a 50/1.8 with USM for around $120 or so

I can't see that happening, makes too many 50s, plus they're not big selling lens' like they used to be.

[form]

I don't consider an upgrade from a 350d to a 400d a lateral move, because of the increase from 8 to 10 megapixels, picture styles, increased lcd size, improved autofocus system, rgb histogram, dust reduction system, and bigger buffer.

I would certainly not consider an upgrade from a 350d to a 450d a lateral move, because of the increase from 8 to 12 megapixels, picture styles, increased lcd size, improved autofocus system, rgb histogram, dust reduction system, bigger buffer, spot metering, faster fps, live view, bigger viewfinder, 14 bit conversion, additional time lapse settings, and extra dynamic range/noise reduction functions.

Would you?

[Tom W]

I'm really having a hard time deciphering just what it is that Canon is trying to accomplish with this new body.

I'll grant you that 12.2Mp (plus all the other bells & whistles: Live View, Digic III, Spot Meter, etc...) is pretty impressive for a camera that will be (we hope) many people's first dSLR, but (IMO) they've thrown a wrench in their own upgrade chain by migrating the storage to SD and a totally different battery.

So what happens when Joe or Jane Q Public wants to move up and finds out that they need an entirely different style of memory card and their extra battery (or batteries) isn't/aren't upward compatible?

Actually, I think Joe and Jane are more likely to be moving up from a P&S type camera to the realm of DSLR. Canon can't afford to not WoW them into the family at this level. Those with an XT or XTi are probably more inclined to move up to a 40D or 5D if they wish.

I'm a little less enthusiastic about the SD card issue as well, though these cards are pretty cheap now days. I just snagged a pile of 4-gig CF EXtreme II cards for around $35 each (and sold several of them for a couple of dollars more). Still, I'd prefer to keep the same format, but I don't see this as a really significant issue.

I can't shake the feeling that Canon is getting a little scattershot and disjointed in their approach to new gear and that the two new bodies from Nikon maybe caught Canon off guard (or at least caused some kind of re-trenchment.)

JMO, but it almost feels like Canon have sort of tossed in the towel for this round and taken the easy route of just stuffing all their new goodies into one package then crank up the one thing that inexperienced buyers drool over: Mega Pixels.

Sad to say, people at the entry level are most interested in megapixels. That and features that they'll likely never use. It's just the nature of the market, and I think Canon's hit this spot right on the money. In fact, the only area that I think they're missing is that vast space between the 40D and the 1-series. Yes, the 2.5 year old 5D sits there, but that's in need of an upgrade. And I expect one this fall.

At the other end of the spectrum, we have the two new lenses that have been announced that are (I think) specialty heaped on specialty. We had 1001 threads regarding the 1200mm f/5.6 that was at B&H but frankly, is an 800 f/5.6 all that much different in terms of to whom it will appeal?

Well, the 1200 goes for around $90,000, weighs around 35 pounds, and does not have IS. I expect the 800/5.6 IS to settle around $8-10,000. And the 800 weighs less than the 600/4. Quite the birding lens, and I'm saying this from the standpoint of a serious skeptic.

And what would be the ideal application for the 200mm f/2? Sure, f/2 is damn fast but at only 200mm? And even on a 1DMkIII it's 260mm effective FOV. Still kinda on the short side.

I think you'd be surprised at the usefulness of a 200 mm f/2 IS lens. Just run your 70-200 f/2.8 IS to 200 mm and add a stop of light and some excellent bokeh. I know that any event that involves a stage and stage lighting will benefit from this lens. Perhaps some indoor sports as well. And yes, people do shoot portraits with the 200/1.8 now. I would expect the same from the new 200/2.

I'm just sharing my confusion. I'm here as much to learn about the photo industry as I am anything else so shred some or all of the above as you see fit.


Like yourself, I see gaps in Canon's lineup. But I also see some wonderful equipment that fills gaps that nobody else wants to fill. I'm surprised that there's no 17-200, but equally surprised that there's a matched set of low-cost, lightweight IS lenses reaching from 17-250 mm. Time will tell if their performance is worth having two lenses instead of one to cover that range. Likewise, I still see a large hole between the XXD and the 1-series that could stand to be filled.

I don't expect Canon to change their entire equipment line in one or two years - it's an ongoing process. The 1D3, 1Ds3, and 40D last year. The 450D, and probably the 5D (later) this year. All while churning out 2-4 new or improved lenses a year. That's quite a bit in reality.

[Tom W]

Features are nice, but hey, do you REALLY need a 9 inch LCD and another 4 print buttons'?

YESSSSSsssssss......
:D

[NAisBEST]

It's quite simple really. Canon knows that there's tons of message board people that will go out and buy anything they produce.:lol:

[wilvoeka]

When ever they do make the new 5D anouncement....

I am 99.99999999999% sure it will not be more than 14 Megapixels.

[AdamLewis]

When ever they do make the new 5D anouncement....

I am 99.99999999999% sure it will not be more than 14 Megapixels.

I really couldnt care less about the MP thing. Im fine with the 10 I have now and wouldnt complain about the ~13 that the 5D has.

That being said, Im 99% sure that it will be more then 14 solely because the 5D is still a high end pro-sumer camera at the end of the day and a lot of people just want to have those megapixels :rolleyes:

If it had better AF, DigicIII, and a larger screen, Id want to get it even if it was still the same 12.8

[shannyD]

I'm quite dissapointed as well.
Had hoped for something in the Nikon D3 class and was prepared to pay that price.
All we get is another one in the housewife class.

hmmm:evil:

<=== housewife.

[Mark_Cohran]

hmmm:evil:

<=== housewife.

Ah, labels and stereotypes. Aren't they grand! :)

[shannyD]

ohh i love it.

[liza]

I don't get it...so there's no 5D upgrade...and suddenly all your future photos will become inferior or something?

No, the point is that I bought a 40D with the intent of making it a backup camera when the 5D sucessor was released. It's easier to shoot a fast paced event with two cameras that have similar control sets, as I assume the upgrade will have. I also wanted a FF camera for studio work. The 5D is amazing, so the upgrade will likely be the perfect camera for my portrait, sports, and wedding business.

[gary88]

I guess that makes me a housewife too :oops:

[shannyD]

I guess that makes me a housewife too :oops:

your a housewife in an awesomer area too. ( yeah i know i used the word awesomer. lol)

i loved chicago when i lived there.

[gary88]

your a housewife in an awesomer area too. ( yeah i know i used the word awesomer. lol)

i loved chicago when i lived there.

Yeah Chicago is an awesome place to live. The only downside is it's 4 degrees outside right now.

[wilvoeka]

I would get a new 5D if they turned it into the Digital version of the EOS 3.

Ie
Same build as a 1D(minus the built in Grip)
Same Controls and Menu as the 1D.
Same AF system as the 1D

12, 14, 16 MP wouldnt matter. Even at around $3400 the demand for such a camera would be huge.

[shannyD]

Yeah Chicago is an awesome place to live. The only downside is it's 4 degrees outside right now.

screw that. i remember when i lived there i was going to work in july. and i ran back into the house to go put my jacket on. i listened to the news. and they said it was colder in chi-town than it was in alaska. it was so strange to me.. but the thunder and lightning storms are fabulous.

[AdamLewis]

I would get a new 5D if they turned it into the Digital version of the EOS 3.

Ie
Same build as a 1D(minus the built in Grip)
Same Controls and Menu as the 1D.
Same AF system as the 1D

12, 14, 16 MP wouldnt matter. Even at around $3400 the demand for such a camera would be huge.

It may have the same controls but I doubt Canon would put the same AF system from 1 series cameras in a 5D. Its not a pro camera...its a prosumer FF camera.
And if its around the same resolution as the current 5D and those are the only differences, the only huge demand will be for the current one.

[gary88]

It may have the same controls but I doubt Canon would put the same AF system from 1 series cameras in a 5D. Its not a pro camera...its a prosumer FF camera.

If they put the 40D AF in with the six assist points at the center, I would be happy.

[AdamLewis]

If they put the 40D AF in with the six assist points at the center, I would be happy.

Ill have to agree on that one.

Honestly, the 45pts on my MkIII never get used. If they made some new MkIII with just the CFP that was able to track like mad, Id buy it in a heartbeat.

The 5D AF is fine but it could use a revision to get it up to date.

[blackshadow]

Three words for all the moaners out there who think the sky has fallen in because Canon haven't upgraded the 5D.

GET OVER IT!

You're behaving like petulant children; as though it's your right to have a 5D upgrade. Sure there has been speculation of an upgrade but to my knowledge Canon haven't ever promised that there would be or that if there was that it would be announced on January 24.

It's not the end of the world - Canon still have a fantastic line-up of cameras which IMO outshine the competition. If you're not happy with what Canon has to offer jump ship to another brand.

Just because there was no 5D replacement announcement doesn't mean that the current Canon range of cameras is any less than it was 24 hours ago - all capable of taking fantastic photos.

Less whining more shooting!

[chauncey]

No, I'm waay beyond disappointed, I'm angry to the point that I spent 3 hours checking out Nikon. It was the cost of their glass that put me off.

Had my mind all around buying the new 5D, or whatever it's called.

Now I want a 14-bit because of color and less banding. So what are my choices; a 10MP for about two grand or a 21MP for around eight grand. Helluva choice...hey wait, there's a three year old 5D or a four year old 1Ds MkII. Kinda old technology, but stable cameras.

If nothing new is announced in Vegas, I'm left with a used Ds MkII.

Go frigger. LOL

[Elton Balch]

No, I'm waay beyond disappointed, I'm angry to the point that I spent 3 hours checking out Nikon. It was the cost of their glass that put me off.

Had my mind all around buying the new 5D, or whatever it's called.

Now I want a 14-bit because of color and less banding. So what are my choices; a 10MP for about two grand or a 21MP for around eight grand. Helluva choice...hey wait, there's a three year old 5D or a four year old 1Ds MkII. Kinda old technology, but stable cameras.

If nothing new is announced in Vegas, I'm left with a used Ds MkII.

Go frigger. LOL

Based on what appears to be Canon's replacement cycle, a "new" 5D should be imminent--but that's just a guess because I have no inside information. You'd think they would want to get a replacement out there just because of Nikon but based on their recent quality problems they'll want this release to be perfect when it happens. Be patient or buy a Nikon.;)

[shannyD]

chauncey...it will come.. patience grasshopper.

[SlowBlink]

So what's the topic for today? :)

[nburwell]

Yes, the replacement will come. However, unless Canon were to put out some "super feature" in the 5D replacement, I would really see no need for me to get the next latest and greatest when my 5D serves me perfectly just fine. I'm sure Canon has something cooking for the 5D successor.

[Mark_Cohran]

Chauncey, realistically your time would be better spent learning how to use the gear you've already got to it's maximum rather than worrying about when Canon's going to release the latest and greatest. Good things come to those who are patient. Better skill is always a greater asset than at better camera until you reached the limits of the what your skill can do with the equipment. Honestly, based on your recent posts, you're not there yet. :)

[AdamLewis]

Chauncey, realistically your time would be better spent learning how to use the gear you've already got to it's maximum rather than worrying about when Canon's going to release the latest and greatest. Good things come to those who are patient. Better skill is always a greater asset than at better camera until you reached the limits of the what your skill can do with the equipment. Honestly, based on your recent posts, you're not there yet. :)

QFT

[Glenn NK]

So what's the topic for today? :)

I'm not sure, but I'm going over to read the Rumours threads.:lol:

[AdamLewis]

Three words for all the moaners out there who think the sky has fallen in because Canon haven't upgraded the 5D.

GET OVER IT!

You're behaving like petulant children; as though it's your right to have a 5D upgrade. Sure there has been speculation of an upgrade but to my knowledge Canon haven't ever promised that there would be or that if there was that it would be announced on January 24.

It's not the end of the world - Canon still have a fantastic line-up of cameras which IMO outshine the competition. If you're not happy with what Canon has to offer jump ship to another brand.

Just because there was no 5D replacement announcement doesn't mean that the current Canon range of cameras is any less than it was 24 hours ago - all capable of taking fantastic photos.

Less whining more shooting!

Funny. I especially like the part about petulant children. :rolleyes:

[nicksan]

Yeah, the 5D and 1Ds MKII...what pieces of horse crap...
I don't know how we all lived without 14bit all this time...man we had it baaaaad...

[Photorebel]

Yeah, the 5D and 1Ds MKII...what pieces of horse crap...
I don't how we all lived without 14bit all this time...man we had it baaaaad...

That's cause we are spoiled!!
I remember when it was exciting that we could shoot at ISO 800, even though it was noisy. 1600 ISO, was all but unusable.
Now we complain that we only get 3200 usable...and 6400 shows...some noise. ;)

[Dragos Jianu]

That's cause we are spoiled!!
I remember when it was exciting that we could shoot at ISO 800, even though it was noisy. 1600 ISO, was all but unusable.
Now we complain that we only get 3200 usable...and 6400 shows...some noise. ;)

It's not called being spoiled if it's on your money. Nothing wrong with wanting the best available for your $$$. And right now Canon's acting like a dumb disoriented mule. Not delivering.

[monokrome]

No, I'm waay beyond disappointed, I'm angry to the point that I spent 3 hours checking out Nikon. It was the cost of their glass that put me off.

Had my mind all around buying the new 5D, or whatever it's called.

Now I want a 14-bit because of color and less banding. So what are my choices; a 10MP for about two grand or a 21MP for around eight grand. Helluva choice...hey wait, there's a three year old 5D or a four year old 1Ds MkII. Kinda old technology, but stable cameras.

If nothing new is announced in Vegas, I'm left with a used Ds MkII.

Go frigger. LOL


That's kinda like swearing at the cable company that you're going to a Dish, then realized that you need $800 to get going.

[Keith R]

And right now Canon's acting like a dumb disoriented mule. Not delivering.

What, just because they're not doing what you want of them?

Maybe they just didn't get the "stop everything and listen to Dragos" memo...

[cosworth]

used 1D Mk.III and a sigma 12-24 - solved.

[monokrome]

Yes, the replacement will come. However, unless Canon were to put out some "super feature" in the 5D replacement, I would really see no need for me to get the next latest and greatest when my 5D serves me perfectly just fine. I'm sure Canon has something cooking for the 5D successor.


Yeah, I don't see Canon just putting what's available to them in a whatever they call it, just to put one out. A new Digic chip and CMOS, 16bit, I hope to see in their future.

[monokrome]

used 1D Mk.III and a sigma 12-24 - solved.


Just how good is that 12-24, I hear a lot of talk both ways???

[JBF]

I'm not saying a word in here.........might get chewed out!!

[chauncey]

Mark ole buddy, What is it about your ego that requires you to bad mouth my work even if it isn't up to your standards.

I just do the best I can with the 6 months experience I had when I took those images. Sorry they're so bad.

[dlcx]

Owning a 40D, personally i can see absolutely no difference in 14 bit color.
I too was "oh man 14 bit must be sooo good"... let me tell you if you are expecting the world with 14 bit color then you will really be disappointed.

[canonloader]

That's kinda like swearing at the cable company that you're going to a Dish, then realized that you need $800 to get going.
I swear at my cable company just because. You need a reason? :mrgreen:

[Mr. Clean]

Shoot, the Mark II, 5D, 1Ds Mark II etc STILL knock my socks of. The 40D is an awesome camera, a VERY good revision of the 30D and worth every cent.

All of those aforementioned cameras have more talent bred into them than the majority of people using them. Myself included.

Compaining about it is ridiculous. Are you a gearhead, or a photographer.

both.

or else i would the quit the gear forums and take some of the hypocrites and exalted ones with me :D!

ed rader

Can’t we be both? I love photography both for fun and at work. But I also like forums and forums are great for gear head thought. This would be a boring place if we all just sang the praises and there are plenty of forums on this board to discuss just the artistic aspects of a picture where rarely is t mentioned what type of gear is used. This forum I focused on hardware and hardware talk.

But all the negative waves coming at the 450 kind of surprise me. I know many were disappointed that a new 5D was not announced but that’s not a good reason to slam the 450.
I'm with both you guys...I love the technical/gearheaded aspect of photography, it really adds another dimension of fun.
However I think both you guys are photographers first, gearheads second. I guess that's what my point was. :p

[ed rader]

[quote=ed rader;4772020]


I'm with both you guys...I love the technical/gearheaded aspect of photography, it really adds another dimension of fun.
However I think both you guys are photographers first, gearheads second. I guess that's what my point was. :p


Thank you Mike....i see it that way too :D. i also love cycling and while a big part of it is the gear for me it doesn't prevent me from still logging 2500 miles a year in my old age :D.

ed rader

[nicksan]

You mean that Full Frame body with weather sealing, 16MP, 10fps, AF system of 1 series, ISO 25600 camera for $2000?

Yeah...pet mule must have ate your memo...


It's not called being spoiled if it's on your money. Nothing wrong with wanting the best available for your $$$. And right now Canon's acting like a dumb disoriented mule. Not delivering.

[nicksan]

Owning a 40D, personally i can see absolutely no difference in 14 bit color.
I too was "oh man 14 bit must be sooo good"... let me tell you if you are expecting the world with 14 bit color then you will really be disappointed.

Reds are redder, blues are bluer, greens are greener, rainbows are rainbower...wait let me put my pipe down...

[ALaS]

Yep, aimed for people upgrading from a P&S. Who in the right mind would upgrade from an xti to an xsi. I hate the sloppy ISO performance, body build, af, size..etc. The upgrade fomr xt/xti is to an xxD/xD. Canon did their thinking right. Now people with xt/xti's will sell and try to buy xD/xxD's.

[Az2Africa]

The minute it looked like the 5D MkII was not going to be announced, my 5D started making crappy photos. What should I do ?:p
I hope the guys who threatened to jump to Nikon will do it. It will make the line shorter when the 5D MkII does come out.

[sapearl]

Hey there Chauncey, just saw this thread of yours. Sorry things didn't work out differently. But really, is the plain old current 5D so bad? A local gallery just purchased one of my 19x25 fine art prints done with that 'ole body so it must be putting out some halfway decent pixels ;)

As a wise man in this thread recently said: "Patienced grasshopper....."

[col4bin]

I for one am not disappointed. I was planning to buy a FF camera as a second body. Now I will just get the 5D. Sure, it will be replaced and I could always sell the 5D if something so revolutionary comes out or just keep it. No matter how I slice it I come out a winner.

[gjl711]

[quote=ed rader;4772020]...However I think both you guys are photographers first, gearheads second. I guess that's what my point was. :p
Well I would rather be out shooting but it’s freakin’ 5 below zero with a wind chill of 25 below and that’s fahrenheit . Maybe my camera would survive but I’d be freezing my a$$ off and though I could benefit from loosing a few, freezing it off is not the way I was looking to do it. :)

[cosworth]

As a wise woman in this thread recently said: "Patience grasshopper....."

Fixed.

[splitfyre]

I'll keep my 40D & 30D for now until the 5D Mark II is released.

[chauncey]

Guys don't get me wrong. I am not bad mouthing the 5D or the 1Ds MarkII, but ya gotta admit that they are old. Most of you'll are pros and could take great images with a pinhole.

I just want all the help that I can get.

Did not David Carradine say "patience my a**?

[cosworth]

The 1Ds Mk.II will give you a lot more help than a 5d Mk.II bud.

[chauncey]

In what way Jason?

[rendl42]

Is there no chance Canon would do a second annoucement? They're probably watching the 5D orders stream in for those that were holding off in case of Mk II.

[rang]

DANG...no lottery ticket buying for me man...oh well.
Maybe in Sept.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

:-(

[canonloader]

So when is enough enough? Personally, I would love to see an extended run of the 1DMkIIn. It is such a great camera people would keep on buying it if the price came down. Are you reading this Canon?

[VTSHEP1]

The issue has nothing to do with the current (old) 5D's ability to take pictures. The issue is that many of us hoping for the 5DmkII have invested heavily into the "Canon system" therefore financially and emotionally tied to it. Non-pro’s are fortunate to have enough disposable income to both do that and afford a new 5D mkII (assuming $3500), but not enough to afford or to justify a 1DsmkIII. Pro’s depend on equipment for their living. So it ticks everyone off when we finally see something along the lines of what we want (not need) and its a Nikon. Its another kick in the teeth when it seems Nikon has made big advances recently…first Nikon full frame, fastest full frame, takes APC and regular lenses, 256098347gabillion ISO, better live view, etc

Canon hasn’t recently advanced much, hopefully its in the hopper for fall and coming soon….:/

I never touched a camera until 2006, then i got a 20D, and invested in the Canon system. I have watched the upgrades, the 30D was embarrassing, the 40D, eh...decent.

Buying a 5D now until the 5DmkII comes out is a costly compromise that not all are willing to make. People here are pissed because they are obviously a little passionate about photography and they got let down with what they are passionate about. The only people who are happy are the current 5D owners...

Not to get too philosophical, but….Is there anything wrong with people wanting more?? If people didnt want more, society wouldnt advance, things wouldnt progress or improve, and things would be damn boring. I say what is wrong with people who dont want more!!!!

[CyberDyneSystems]

What "issue" ?

Canon has dramatically upgraded 4 out 5 cameras lines in under 1 year,.
Four totaly new models in under a year..
There entire line, replaced save one, in under a year,.

that's an all time new high record,. not just for Canon, but for any Camera company ever. Canon usually spaces these out a lot further, and we see maybe two a year, and some are marginal upgrades (think MkIIn and 30D)

They gave us more than they ever had in so short a span, by a significant factor, and the result is a seemingly never end stream of complaint threads (6 so far today, most merged )

Just seems funny to me. Proves the point that no matter what you do there will always be someone one disappointed.

[VTSHEP1]

Canon has dramatically upgraded 4 out 5 cameras lines in under 1 year,.

that's an all time new high record,. they gave us more than they ever had in so short a span, by a significant factor, and the result is a seemingly never end stream of complaint threads (6 so far today most merged )

Just seems funny to me.

Issue meaning why people are upset or dissapointed.

And the people dissapointed are in the segment not updated. They did upgrade a lot of the cameras, in line with expectations, its Nikon who I think exceeded the expectations. Like i said who knows in the fall maybe Canon will do the same. Some people wont wait for that, some will.

Its 2008, dont we all expect everything +1 yesterday:)

[monokrome]

The issue has nothing to do with the current (old) 5D's ability to take pictures. The issue is that many of us hoping for the 5DmkII have invested heavily into the "Canon system" therefore financially and emotionally tied to it. Non-pro’s are fortunate to have enough disposable income to both do that and afford a new 5D mkII (assuming $3500), but not enough to afford or to justify a 1DsmkIII. Pro’s depend on equipment for their living. So it ticks everyone off when we finally see something along the lines of what we want (not need) and its a Nikon. Its another kick in the teeth when it seems Nikon has made big advances recently…first Nikon full frame, fastest full frame, takes APC and regular lenses, 256098347gabillion ISO, better live view, etc

Canon hasn’t recently advanced much, hopefully its in the hopper for fall and coming soon….:/

I never touched a camera until 2006, then i got a 20D, and invested in the Canon system. I have watched the upgrades, the 30D was embarrassing, the 40D, eh...decent.

Buying a 5D now until the 5DmkII comes out is a costly compromise that not all are willing to make. People here are pissed because they are obviously a little passionate about photography and they got let down with what they are passionate about. The only people who are happy are the current 5D owners...

Not to get too philosophical, but….Is there anything wrong with people wanting more?? If people didnt want more, society wouldnt advance, things wouldnt progress or improve, and things would be damn boring. I say what is wrong with people who dont want more!!!!

Wanting more, no, but some are just over the top ridiculous about it. I'm adding in what I see from two other boards. The 5D is still making people money and the 1dMk2's are as well. And most level headed people I talked to or read the comments are happy for what Nikon has done, Canon will step it up. But my gawd, it's been what just 6 months since anybody heard what the new Nikons will do and just under 3 months to see if they do it.

Just taking what Canon has now and putting it in a 5Dmk2 won't make people happy either.

[rang]

I'm feeling the same way.

Perhaps Canon felt that they needed to compete with the Noink D40x?

Why would 20-30-40D owners even care?

At the end of the day, it looks like Canon has only tossed us a bone by gleaning a few bits from the G9 and 40D and then dropped them into the existing XTi/400D.

I don't think I'll the only one who will be really disappointed if we will still be waiting for a successor to the 5D after PMA.

Yup bummer...if I had been right I was going to go buy a lottery ticket.
But, alas...no winning lottery ticket for me.

But who knows ...maybe an _ss kicker of a 5d successor in ....September, 2008!

I remain...ever the optomist.

[Performa01]

I'll keep my 40D & 30D for now until the 5D Mark II is released.

And I will keep my 40D even after a 5D MkII was released.

[VTSHEP1]

Wanting more, no, but some are just over the top ridiculous about it. I'm adding in what I see from two other boards. The 5D is still making people money and the 1dMk2's are as well. And most level headed people I talked to or read the comments are happy for what Nikon has done, Canon will step it up. But my gawd, it's been what just 6 months since anybody heard what the new Nikons will do and just under 3 months to see if they do it.

Just taking what Canon has now and putting it in a 5Dmk2 won't make people happy either.

Nikon will stimulate Canon (hopefully)
5D is a good camera

I agree, good points, add to it these things ebb and flow, most likely Canon will be back on top (fully), i see both sides of the coin. Still disappointed i am not pre-ordering a 5DmkII, which shows how lucky i am that something like this disappoints me:)

Back to beating up my 20D...

[Mr. Clean]

Guys don't get me wrong. I am not bad mouthing the 5D or the 1Ds MarkII, but ya gotta admit that they are old. Most of you'll are pros and could take great images with a pinhole.

I just want all the help that I can get.

Did not David Carradine say "patience my a**?
yeah they're old, and they still kick ass over 90% of the cameras out there. :cool:

[davidfig]

I don't get it. Canon introduces one DSLR, one P&S, and two lens, and you think thats it?

I don't get it guys and gals! Seems like they could still provide more. Maybe they are just waiting for PMA to start. Its important to grab the lime light and somehow I think more is coming.

[Mark_Cohran]

Mark ole buddy, What is it about your ego that requires you to bad mouth my work even if it isn't up to your standards.

I just do the best I can with the 6 months experience I had when I took those images. Sorry they're so bad.

Chauncey, it's not an ego thing at all. You're doing better at 6 months that I was doing after my 1st 6 years of shooting. But you're chomping at the bit for a camera that isn't going to make your photos any better. Only you are going to make your photos better.

And it wasn't your photos I was talking about, it was the questions you were asking. You still have much to learn about your current equipment and the general principles of exposure and lighting. There's nothing wrong with that. We all have to start somewhere. But when you run up against the limits of your equipment after learning what you can do to improve your own skills, then that's the time to upgrade. A new camera isn't going to make you a better photographer, improve the lighting in your images, and make your subjects look better - only you can do that.

[Ryan McDede]

I don't get it. Canon introduces one DSLR, one P&S, and two lens, and you think thats it?

I don't get it guys and gals! Seems like they could still provide more. Maybe they are just waiting for PMA to start. Its important to grab the lime light and somehow I think more is coming.

i agree, i have a feeling canon is going to introduce 2 more slr's my canon rep today laughed when i said i was disapointed about just the xsi. and he chuckled and he said you wont be in a couple days. the suspense is killing me. i wish they had a 1dmk3 with more mp. i dont really care about the 10fps.

[Ryan McDede]

and yes i know about the 1ds

[cyrn]

I'm disappointed that they are concentrating too much on the number games.

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/newstex/AFX-0013-22483434.htm

[gjl711]

I'm disappointed that they are concentrating too much on the number games.Numbers as in profit, market share? What do you expect. Canon is in business for only one reason and it isn't to take pretty pictures. Canon's only goal is to provide a product that will separate people from their hard earned $$$ and give it to them. It's only about numbers.

[Mark_Cohran]

i agree, i have a feeling canon is going to introduce 2 more slr's my canon rep today laughed when i said i was disapointed about just the xsi. and he chuckled and he said you wont be in a couple days. the suspense is killing me. i wish they had a 1dmk3 with more mp. i dont really care about the 10fps.

Man, where are all these Canon Reps I keep hearing about? Are they issuing one with each new Rebel purchase these days?

[cyrn]

Numbers as in profit, market share? What do you expect. Canon is in business for only one reason and it isn't to take pretty pictures. Canon's only goal is to provide a product that will separate people from their hard earned $$$ and give it to them. It's only about numbers.

wat about customer's satisfaction? :rolleyes:

[herbe_nelson]

Man, where are all these Canon Reps I keep hearing about? Are they issuing one with each new Rebel purchase these days?
It would seem that way :)

Shame I didn't get one when I bought my 350D a couple of years ago. But then again here in australia it is classed as a 350D and not a rebel ;)

Hope the rep is right, but I'd be breathing and not holding my breath ;)

All the best,
Nelson

[Nightcrawler]

Numbers as in profit, market share? What do you expect. Canon is in business for only one reason and it isn't to take pretty pictures. Canon's only goal is to provide a product that will separate people from their hard earned $$$ and give it to them. It's only about numbers.

Kind of hard to separate people from their money if there isn't a product they want. You can't assume they can do whatever they want.

[SunTsu]

I just found a page on dpreview that shows all the product that were released at each PMA show. It looks like they did it all on the same day for each respective show. I guess there is no new 5D coming for this show. :(

[AdamLewis]

i wish they had a 1dmk3 with more mp. i dont really care about the 10fps.

I guess you dont care about IQ either :lol:

Leave the resolution alone. 10MP is enough for real work. It may not be enough for people who obsess over resolution...but there are many many more things Id want improved before they made it more than 10MP

[scokar]

Nikon will stimulate Canon (hopefully)...

eww

[CyberDyneSystems]

i wish they had a 1dmk3 with more mp. i dont really care about the 10fps.

It's called the 1Ds MkII or 1Ds MkIII

[Ryan McDede]

i dont want ff =)

[water8]

i m thinking canon's profit is from selling lens not the body. The fact is that once the customer buy a few lens, they are being locked to the brand. So for any company, it is important to continue expend the customer base. And therefore the battle of entry level camera body becomes very important.

[cyrn]

i m thinking canon's profit is from selling lens not the body. The fact is that once the customer buy a few lens, they are being locked to the brand. So for any company, it is important to continue expend the customer base. And therefore the battle of entry level camera body becomes very important.

True to a certain extent. But you also can't really squeeze those with limited budget (assuming that's the reason they go for 450D) for more lenses.

And third party have a wonderful 18-200 OS for EOS mount. :D