20D new bug no one else seems to notice...users pls confirm

[greyunit]

20D framing problem no more...from my previous post...
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=43905&highlight=

iv now figured it out...its a bug firmware in the 20D... im just surprised why no one else saw this... a friend tested his 20D also noticed the same thing only after i told him what to look for.

During playback (and preview after shooting) not the whole captured image is displayed on the LCD...a portion of the right side is cropped!

Zoom in then out again, the whole image is now displayed on the LCD.

press the shutter half way to turn camera to shoot mode then press playback again...again the image is cropped on the right side. to see the complete image, i have to zoom in and zoom out to see the whole image!

owners of canon 20D pls check this and confirm my findings...

[tommykjensen]

Nope works fine here.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Ooopps. menat to post here...

No.. my 20D deos NOT display this symptom. The crop remains the same whetehr I zoom in and back out .. or not.

[greyunit]

i guess i truely have a lemon on my hands:(

thanks CDS & tommykjensen for confirming...

[DeeplyDigital]

all is well in this here 20D land.... no problems as yet...
-

[greyunit]

guyz, i went to a photo center yealier today at the 2nd largest mall in my city as i heard that they now have stocks of 20D...

i manage to test ALL on hand units and they all do have the problem i stated here thus finally concluding that this is indeed A BUG in the firmware...

if you could post ur email address with 4.46MB capacity, i will send you a picture (8MP.jpg) i took tonigh that can show what i mean more easily...


1)copy the file into your cf card with the proper folders of course...DCIM/XXXX/

2)insert the cf card in the 20D and turn camera on.

3)press play button.
notice the upper right side of the image...by the window (no shadow)

4)now press zoom in then press zoom out.(full image view)
notice the upper right side of the picture now...you should be able to see the shadow (showing that the image wasnt displayed fully on its right side)

5)if you didn't notice it try again...press shutter button half way and start again with step 3 then 4...you will see the difference...

BTW, ADJUST LCD BRIGHTNESS TO FULL to see the effect better:)

[Deckyon]

My 20D does not do this. I just tested it with my 3 lenses. No irregular cropping.

[Scottes]

So I have Preview set to Info mode to see the Histogram. If I then hit the Magnifying Glass to zoom in the image takes up the whole screen, but it is cropped. It's as if I zoomed in a little too much.

So I zoom out. And it goes back to the Info screen with the Histogram.

So...

The trick is to turn off Info, rather than zoom in. Instead of hitting the MagGlass I just hit Info until the Histogram goes away and the full image is displayed.

Is this your "bug" ?

[greyunit]

So I have Preview set to Info mode to see the Histogram. If I then hit the Magnifying Glass to zoom in the image takes up the whole screen, but it is cropped. It's as if I zoomed in a little too much.

So I zoom out. And it goes back to the Info screen with the Histogram.

So...

The trick is to turn off Info, rather than zoom in. Instead of hitting the MagGlass I just hit Info until the Histogram goes away and the full image is displayed.

Is this your "bug" ?

no histogram...full screen view...no info on display.
just the whole image view...

post your email...ill send you an image what shows the problem more clearly or easily.

[greyunit]

does anyone know where i can upload for free the 4.46mb jpg for everyone to download and check?

[greyunit]

My 20D does not do this. I just tested it with my 3 lenses. No irregular cropping.

its not the lens...its not the view finder...its not the LCD...
its the firmware/software! the way it displays the image we take...

during playback/preview the displayed image on the right is croped just a few pixels.
only after zooming in and out of the picture will the image be displayed as a complete image crop.

[drisley]

I can confirm this, partially.
On mine, the image is slightly cropped (a few pixels) on the right hand side during the review (the picture that is shown for a couple seconds immediatelty after taking a picture.
However, during playback, the crop does not happen, even when I zoom in and out.

I took a picture where an object butts right up to the right side of the frame. During the instant review, the object is shown right up to the right side of the lcd, with no space. But, when I hit playback, you can actually see a bit more on the right side (the object no longer butts up against the right side of the lcd).

However, as mentioned, it's only a few pixels at most during review, so I'm certainly not going to worry about it. This is the very definition of "pixel peeping"

[drisley]

Ok, now I can FULLY confirm this.
I only shoot RAW, so I figured the difference may lie in the image used during review and playback, something to do with the embedded jpg.

So, for the heck of it I switched to JPG large/fine.
Sure enough, during playback, if you zoom in then out, there will be a few more pixels showing on the right side, just as greyunit mentioned.
I have a feeling that this has something to do with the interpolation of the jpg used for LCD playback. While the 10D/Rebel used the full sized image (I believe), the 20D may use an internal thumbnail of some sort. This would explain the tremendous difference of speed reviewing images on the LCD compared to the 10D/Rebel.

Again, though, I only shoot RAW. But even if I wasnt, the small difference is way too little for me to worry about. Also, I will take the tremendous speed increase and 1 or 2 pixel inaccuracy over viewing the BUSY message on the 10D/300D anyday.
Best of all, greyunit, I can confirm that you are not insane (well, maybe not 100%) :wink:

[robertwgross]

during playback/preview the displayed image on the right is croped just a few pixels.


Let's think about this for a moment.

The sensor is capturing an image of 3504x2336 pixels. The LCD is only capable of displaying an image of somewhat less than 450x300. Depending on how the captured image is sampled, what are the chances that just a few pixels on the right are sampled out?

It sounds like a user training issue to me.

---Bob Gross---

[drisley]

Actually, I did confirm this too (see above).
However, on the 300D (and I assume the 10D) when you shot Raw, and zoomed in the image on the LCD, usually detail was pretty crappy (jagged, pixelated) compared to when you shot JPG.
With the 20D, the detail on the playback image when zoomed in is tremendous.

[greyunit]

during playback/preview the displayed image on the right is croped just a few pixels.


Let's think about this for a moment.

The sensor is capturing an image of 3504x2336 pixels. The LCD is only capable of displaying an image of somewhat less than 450x300. Depending on how the captured image is sampled, what are the chances that just a few pixels on the right are sampled out?

It sounds like a user training issue to me.

---Bob Gross---

1)again...if you view the image with playback (full screen mode)it crops out part of the image(right most). image is not centered therefor it gives the illution that it wasnt taken right...its off center...very bad special if ur taking symetrical images like points of a building or structure...

2)but upon zooming in and back out to full screen no croping is made...THE FULL IMAGE IS NOW DISPLAYED!

training issue?? duh??!
what are you talking about?

in 1 it samples out part of the image?
in 2 it doesnt sample out part of the image....whats the difference in sampling here were both produce different displays of the same image?? BTW, i dont think sampling is the right word...rendering would be a more suitable word i think...

for a camera this expensive...an equipment this precise...an advance tool like this should have precise image rendering on its LCD!

[tommykjensen]

Have You reported this seamingly huge and very disturbing bug to Canon?

[greyunit]

Ok, now I can FULLY confirm this.
for the heck of it I switched to JPG large/fine.
Sure enough, during playback, if you zoom in then out, there will be a few more pixels showing on the right side, just as greyunit mentioned.
I have a feeling that this has something to do with the interpolation of the jpg used for LCD playback.
Again, though, I only shoot RAW. But even if I wasnt, the small difference is way too little for me to worry about. Also, I will take the tremendous speed increase and 1 or 2 pixel inaccuracy over viewing the BUSY message on the 10D/300D anyday.
Best of all, greyunit, I can confirm that you are not insane (well, maybe not 100%) :wink:

a big thank you to drisley for FULLY confirming my findings...and affirming that im not 100% insane:) hahaha!

regarding interpolation...maybe they do this but it should display 100% on the lcd during preview and playback...for me this is unacceptable for this kind of camera... in my old canon G2, G3, G5, 10D and MarkII none had this miniscule problem... it may only be maybe 5pixels on the lcd cropped out but that throws off the balance of the image as a whole...

yes is a small problem but it matters....

yes the rendering speed is way better than 10D and i would take it any day too but again, this is not the issue here...

the issue is that this is A BUG in the firmware that i think should be addressed by canon for their next firmware update... wouldnt you want it repaired if it could by a simple firmware upgarde?

they would never fix it if no one complains bout it.

[tommykjensen]

the issue is that this is A BUG in the firmware that i think should be addressed by canon for their next firmware update... wouldnt you want it repaired if it could via a firmware upgarde?

they would never fix it if no one complains bout it.

Well have You reported it to Canon?

[greyunit]

the issue is that this is A BUG in the firmware that i think should be addressed by canon for their next firmware update... wouldnt you want it repaired if it could via a firmware upgarde?

they would never fix it if no one complains bout it.

Well have You reported it to Canon?

i have done so in my country...canon philippines says they will look into it...

thats why im pointing this out so that more can complain to other canon centers... 1 voice isn't going to matter...1 complaint out of hundreds if not thousands of new canon 20D units sold all over the world wont matter...

[drisley]

Greyunit, I might mention it to Canon Canada just for the heck of it.
Also, I assume you are shooting JPG right? You could always switch to RAW which fixes the "problem" :wink:

[greyunit]

Greyunit, I might mention it to Canon Canada just for the heck of it.
Also, I assume you are shooting JPG right? You could always switch to RAW which fixes the "problem" :wink:

in raw, it only fixes the playback problem but not the preview problem...

thanks drisley:)

yes i shoot raw most of the time now since i got my new computer...it just bothers me why such an advance tool has such a backward problem like this...i'd like it very much to be resolved...