Advice needed

[jack Sparrow]

Hi all, I'm new to the world of DSLR, my kit that I'm working with is a 400D and for the most part a sigma 70-200 f2.8 APO its the version before the macro one.

I put up a post in the lens section as i was having some trouble getting the pics i wanted with this lens, and was given some useful tips to help me out. so today i went back out, it was lovely and sunny.

I had the camera set on AV aperture 2.8 ISO 200 to 400 depending on shadows.

I would be grateful if some kind member would take a look at a sample of the pics i took this morning and give me a few tips on how i could improve on them.

Pic1 SS 1/4000, f2.8 as are all the pics this pic is obviously out of focus
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee203/Whippet_forum/IMG_1479.jpg

Pic2 SS 1/4000 this is the second pic straight after the above one I'm just wondering why this one is so much clearer than the first one, is this just down to me shaking the camera?
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee203/Whippet_forum/IMG_1480.jpg


Pic1 SS 1/2000. in this pic my dog is well out of focus
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee203/Whippet_forum/IMG_1409.jpg

pic2 1/2000. yet in this pic she is a lot more in focus
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee203/Whippet_forum/IMG_1408.jpg


Pic1 SS 1/1000 I'm really struggling to get decent close up pics of just my dogs head.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee203/Whippet_forum/IMG_1372.jpg

Pic1 SS 1/2500 also another area where I'm struggling is when the dogs are running to wards me. this pic i managed to get not to bad
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee203/Whippet_forum/IMG_1367.jpg

Pic2 1/2500 yet in this pic which is only two frame later the dog is totally out of focus, yet the ground at her feet is well in focus, i know the grass is not coming to wards me, but is in focus exactly where the dog is.
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee203/Whippet_forum/IMG_1369.jpg

I'm not expecting overnight miracles as i understand its a long process of trail and error, I would just like a few pointers to help me along the long road:D

Kind regards
JS

[Hermeto]

In all of them you have one major problem: too shallow Depth of Field.
f/2.8 is to wide for the action shots, you have to nail focus to have the subject within the DoF.
Also, you don’t need 1/4000s, not even 1/1000s for the running dog: 1/500s is more than enough.
Did you use Single Shot or AI Servo?
Focusing seems okay to my eye, although in one shot you have miss focused on the grass in the front ground.

Try with f/5.6 next time, ISO as required for not less than 1/500, AI Servo - I can guarantee that you’ll have more keepers!
Good luck!


PS: You have posted your images properly: EXIF is preserved and active focusing points are visible.
Always go that way when you need an advice.

[jack Sparrow]

Thank you for your advice Hermeto, the shutter speed was picked by the camera as it was set to AV as i was trying to keep the aperture wide open. I understand what you mean now by DoF been to shallow.

I used AI servo with a single point of aim centre

I will try your tips tomorrow weather permitting

Once again cheers for the tips, im sure it will be a big help to me.

Kind regards
Jack

[chauncey]

Also try to keep your horizon level.

[jack Sparrow]

oooooooooooops:D chauncey, thank you for pointing that out, didnt even give it a thought even though i have seen it mentioned on here so many times.

Ive climbed some steep mountains in my time but this is almost a verticle learning curve:lol:

But hopefully with plenty of work from me and some pointers from you members on here a may yet scale it.

Kind regards
Jack

[Hermeto]

Thank you for your advice Hermeto, the shutter speed was picked by the camera as it was set to AV as i was trying to keep the aperture wide open. I understand what you mean now by DoF been to shallow.

I used AI servo with a single point of aim centre

I will try your tips tomorrow weather permitting

Once again cheers for the tips, im sure it will be a big help to me.

Kind regards
Jack

When in AI Servo, try not to shoot, not to press the shutter button momentarily.
Half press to focus on the subject, and keep it there for a second; give camera some time to start ‘following’ what’s in focus..

[djeuch]

The first ones are blown out because at f/2.8, your 400D can't go faster than 1/4000". Even on my 40D, my fastest shutter speed is 1/8000" and I've hit it for similar reasons.

CPL, ND filter, smaller aperture (or switch to Tv mode) are all good solutions with different end-results.

I shoot my 70-200 f/2.8L IS wide open almost all the time, even with action shots, but like someone else said, you have to nail the focus. A smaller aperture will give you more leniency on your focus (because of greater DOF) and slow your shutter speed into something your 400D can handle.

[tracknut]

I shoot performance dog events for a living. I would agree with everything said except for the shutter speed. I need a *minimum* of 1/1000, and better yet 1/1500 to freeze a running dog. Next time you're out, try TV mode instead (not saying this guarantees anything, but might work better for you) to set the shutter speed, then set your ISO such that you have plenty of slack to get the aperture up around 5.6 or so.

Your focus issues I fear are a large problem though. Your gray dog unfortunately is about the worst (possibly one step above a black dog) for giving the camera any contrast to find focus. I have this problem all the time with weimeraners, for example. It's like the're the stealth fighter of focusing algorithms. And your 400D is probably not the best to begin with. As an experiment, put on a dog collar with a silver tag, or something bright like that, and see if the results change.

Dave

[jack Sparrow]

Thank you all for your tips and advice, there is a lot of food for thought there, and a few more ideas for me to try out and see what works best for what I'm after.

tracknut it looks like i may have my work cut out for me then since my other whippet cross is a black one lol, whats the best colour then to take pics of just so i know for the next time lol.

kind regards
Jack

[tracknut]

Pretty much anything other than black and gray :)

A solid white dog will at least contrast at his nose and eyes, a spotted dog works very well, etc. Your dog in these shots happens to have a color on, but again with no contrast. I bet if the collar were red or blue, you'd have better luck for example.

I don't want to make it sound like the camera can't do the trick though. Some of this is just practice on tracking the dog while letting AI Servo do it's job (you could pick a slower dog next time :) )

Good luck,
Dave

[jack Sparrow]

tracknut:lol::lol::lol: what do you mean slower, they only do about 30 -35mph:D

No chance of getting a slower dog ever, running dogs are my life i would never be without one, might have a change of color next time if it would help me catch some action shots though. but probably not since i like a challenge:D

I have seen some excellent examples of what this camera can do, but this is normally on the auto setting or with plenty of PP, but i want to try and get the best out of the camera and my own skills than have to rely on PP or auto setting.

kind regards
jack

[jack Sparrow]

Hi again all well ive tried all your tips and advice.

just a few points that i need to clear up, i tried it set in TV but couldnt get the f stop up to any where near 5.6, but this maybe because it was an overcast day.

Tried Av again with the f set at between 4-5.6 this worked slightly better but shutter speed was a bit to slow.

Also tried in manual, got to say i was happy with this untill it came to the dog running and i just couldnt get it right, i think personaly i will try and work out manual as this give me a bit more scope to get the settings that i wanted.

I will put a few more pics up to show what i mean once i have sorted them out.

Kind regards
Jack

[djeuch]

If you go for a smaller aperture (for greater DoF) and your shutter speed is too slow, up your ISO. :)

[jack Sparrow]

Thanks for the tip mate, im getting there slowly, my still or none running shots where so much better, just still really struggling to capture the running ones how i want.

I like this pic, its one of the better ones i have taken, a bit dark.
all setting in TV SS 1/1600, aperture 2.8 iso 400
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee203/Whippet_forum/IMG_1514.jpg

This next one not to bad, dog running towards me just before a jump
Set as manual. SS 1/1600 aperture f4 iso 800
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee203/Whippet_forum/IMG_1539.jpg


this next one is the actual jump that i messed up.
set to manual SS 1/1600, aperture f4 iso 800
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee203/Whippet_forum/IMG_1540.jpg


and this an area im struggling to to grips with also
Manual setting SS 1/1600 aperture f4 iso 400
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee203/Whippet_forum/IMG_1595.jpg


Regards
Jack

[tonylong]

Jack,

First of all, I've never used the Sigma lens and can't comment on any lens-specific characteristics, such as AF speed (this varies between lenses). I know, though, that this lens quality can make a big difference with moving-subject shots, especially in less-than-ideal lighting, such as sports and, well, running animals! Two widely acclaimed lenses for this type of shooting are the EF 85 f/1.8 and the EF 70-200 f/2.8. AF speed could be a factor in your inconsitent running shots (as well as the above-mentioned problem with focusing on a dark, low-contrast subject).

A couple other points: In your close-ups, it looks like the lighting wasn't so good, and being close to a dark, low contrast subject, your lens will search. If you are in AI-Servo mode, your camera will not focus lock, so you will get a batch of out-of-focus pics. The two best suggestions would be: 1) some kind of fill-lighting to give the AF a chance, whether on-camera or off-camera, but with focus assist lighting to help the AF (even a flashlight can help the AF!), and 2) make sure you use One-Shot AF to ensure focus lock.

My only other comment is your "dog-in-the-woods" shot: The first shot got focus on branches, whereas the second shot got focus on the dog. This can be tricky when there are details in the foreground that can "distract" the AF. Again, with a still subject, switch to One-Shot AF and make sure that when you get focus lock it's on your subject rather than a branch before you take the pic! Even with Center Point AF, there is still a bit of a range where the camera/lens looks for something with good contrast. You may have to move your center a bit to ensure that you focus on the subject.

I agree that f/2.8 is cutting things real close for an agreeable depth-of-field, although sometimes it really will be the "aperture of choice". At any rate, you want to control your depth-of-field, rather than let it control you! For outdoor shooting in less-than-bright-daylight conditions, a high ISO can be pretty invaluable. Experiment with upping your ISO to the max (there will be noise, but you should experiment at least), then trying for a reasonable aperture (try 5.6 or 4) and seeing if you can get a fast enough shutter speed for both action freezing and good exposure. If the lighting is decent, you should be able to adjust these settings to taste. If it's not, you may have to compromise in some things (a slower shutter speed which may show subject movement blur, but may get the crucial focus and exposure locked in) or you may end up slightly underexposing the shot and need to crank up noise reduction in PP.

Well, I hope for the best for you, and have fun!

[jack Sparrow]

Cheers for them tips and advice tony, i feel like im getting there, but its so frustating at times, just by messing about with all the different setting is giving me more confidence and im slowly starting to understand the relationship betwee, shutter speed, f stop and iso

Once again folks thanks for your help, you have made a huge difference to my photography already and its greatly apreciated.

Kind regards
Jack