Flash opinions Canon 420/550EX, Sigma, etc. ?

[MrChad]

I've been limping by with an old Vivitar flash for some time. After shooting with it this past Friday night on the sidelines of a local football game I've had enough. The local photographer from the paper was shooting a D1h with what looked to be a fairly nice Nikon flash, if I recall it was an SB80. Anyway his charge times ran circles around me.

Anyhow, I was thinking a 420EX but the 550EX's manual controls looked very nice. But after many-many online reviews the faults of the current 420 and 550 seam obvious, battery door, E-TTL's faults, no PC sync, etc.

I haven't found much on the Sigma flashes, haven't looked at the Metz line either.

I'm currently using an Elan 7N, but I look to buy a DSLR body in a few months after I build up some more lenses first. Should I buy the 420 make do with it and turn it into a slave later. Or get a 550, Sigma 500 or.....

Anyone got their hands on a 580EX, yet? I'd love to hear how it compares to the 550EX. Is there anyplace to get a pdf of the 420 or 550 manuals. I couldn't find them on the Canon site like I did for the DLSR's.

[robertwgross]

... but I look to buy a DSLR body in a few months after I build up some more lenses first. Should I buy the 420 make do with it and turn it into a slave later. Or get a 550, Sigma 500 or.....


This same question comes up time and time again.

First of all, some of it depends on which DSLR body you intend to purchase, since not all of them have certain features.

Some of it depends on whether you intend to use the new flash directly on the camera or not. If you always use the flash directly on the hot shoe, then the slight additional brightness of the 550EX over the 420EX is not much of a reason to choose the 550EX. If, however, you decide to get into multiple flash situations, then you are going to need at least one wireless master flash, and the 550EX does that. There are many small feature differences also.

---Bob Gross---

[cecilc]

I've got the 550EX ....

Don't have any issues with it at all. It does what it's supposed to do.
Battery door fault? I don't have a problem with the battery door - you open it up, put the batteries in, close the door. How hard is that?
E-TTL's faults? I haven't experienced any ....
This is the confusing part for me - if you don't own one, how can you state that the "faults" of the 550 seem obvious?

Hmmmmmmm...........

[robertwgross]

I have a 550EX, and I am familiar with two of its issues.

The battery door seems like it is broken to some users. It doesn't seem that way to me, but I can understand what they mean. To me, this is not a fault.

E-TTL is not perfect. However, in terms of its automatic nature, it seems OK for me. To me, it seems more like a user training challenge, not a fault.

---Bob Gross---

[MrChad]

Thanks Bob,

I'm not sure which DSLR but figure on one of 2, D-Rebel or 20D (10D if it's still around.) Are about the only ones on the market in my budget zone.

Honestly, I'm holding out to see if the D-Rebel get's an upgrade in a few months. Since most models don't last long in this fast past tech. world.

The 420EX was on the top of my list, but I've been getting more an more serious with each purchase and I'd rather buy up sooner then later. My Elan has flash exposure controls at the moment. But that looks to be missing on the D-Rebel.

I can currently set my Vivitar in Manual TTL modes, does the 420 allow for that? Else, I figured the 550 was my only option....but we have the 580 on the market soon, don't we? Also does the Sigma 500DG compare well to the 550EX?

What are the real world recycle times in the 20m range for the 420 and 550 flashes?

[cecilc]

I have a 550EX, and I am familiar with two of its issues.

Bob....

My post wasn't directed at you .... it may have seemed that way since it followed yours, but it was directed at the first poster, not to you.

I was typing my response at about the same time you were - yours just got submitted while I was finishing mine ....

[TBoyd]

I recently bought the 550EX for my 10D. I had been using a SunPak 383, shooting in manual mode on the 10D, adjusting the aperture depending on the situation.

The 550EX & ETTL is excellent. I don't know why I didn't get one sooner. I still shoot in manual mode for weddings & events - mostly 1/80 & varying apertures for desired DOF. The 550EX always produces the correct intensity & duration of flash.

I plan to get the 420EX as a slave unit soon.

[robertwgross]

What are the real world recycle times in the 20m range for the 420 and 550 flashes?

The manuals state these specifications:
550EX with 4xAA alkaline batteries: cycle time 0.1-8 seconds for normal flash, 100-700 flashes per battery set.
420EX with 4xAA alkaline batteries: cycle time 0.1-7.5 seconds, 200-1400 flashes per battery set.

My own experience is a little different, since I use three sets of new alkaline batteries and rotate them periodically so the cycle time never slows down too much. Plan on getting no more than the minimum number of flashes per battery set, but it might exceed the number if your subject distance is generally short.

Your distance of 20 meters is not short, however. To get that range, you'll probably be using a fast lens.

---Bob Gross---

[MrChad]

Thanks again Bob, I know looking up info like that can be a pain for newbies like myself. Per your reply I wish I had a faster L telephoto but that needs to wait a bit, I'd prefer a faster normal zoom next or at least one with a decent focusing ring. Maybe I'll get the 24-70L instead of the digital body next :P

Those cycle times seam very close to each other.

Still debating on what unit to buy....(Good thing BHphoto is closed for a bit :)
Does the 420EX allow manual setting of the distance?
Or is that exclusive to the 550EX?

[robertwgross]

Distance is a tricky question. You might want to clarify your question.

The 550EX has a display that can indicate its relative effective range, given the current settings of the camera, and it also has a manual mode.

---Bob Gross---

[MrChad]

Distance is a tricky question. You might want to clarify your question.

The 550EX has a display that can indicate its relative effective range, given the current settings of the camera, and it also has a manual mode.

---Bob Gross---

My current Vivitar has a switch full TTL (automode) or I can use the A1 or A2 or full manual settings that allow for selection of a near or far relative distance from subject given aperture. So can you select a distance from subject all the time setting on the 420? The 550's manual mode allows for locking in a distance, right?

Given that I have a Elan 7N which from custom functions gives me control over the flash-IR assist beam (on/off), and some of the exposure controls and curtain sync 1st-2nd etc. What major features would I gain with the 550 over the 420 on my current Body. I know the 550 was designed with the Eos-3 in mind and the 420 appears from stats the perfect Elan 7 mate, but what major functions do you gain with the 550. Canon's site and most reviews seam vague in this regard.

I'd hate to get the 420 then end up not liking it on a D-Rebel or somthing down the road or get the 550 and never use it more then I would have used a 420 in ways of features/content. I'm sure what ever I buy it has to be better then my old caryy over from the old AE-1 FD days Vivitar :D

My main complaints with the Vivitar is it over exposes in auto mode from time to time , (but that's normal I guess--likely more operator error then the flash :D.) Second it takes all day to recycle, and finally it humms like an old tube style TV when it's charging--drives me nuts, my ears ring non-stop if I use it indoors. I have tilt but no swivel on the head, this is only a minor issues for me at this time.

[robertwgross]

My current Vivitar has a switch full TTL (automode) or I can use the A1 or A2 or full manual settings that allow for selection of a near or far relative distance from subject given aperture. So can you select a distance from subject all the time setting on the 420? The 550's manual mode allows for locking in a distance, right?


No, you can't directly set a distance. However, the 550EX will indicate the effective range for its flash based on current camera settings. In manual flash mode, you can limit the flash power fractionally, and it will show its range for each step there. If its range agrees with what your lens tells you for focus distance, then you have a match.



Given that I have a Elan 7N which from custom functions gives me control over the flash-IR assist beam (on/off), and some of the exposure controls and curtain sync 1st-2nd etc. What major features would I gain with the 550 over the 420 on my current Body. I know the 550 was designed with the Eos-3 in mind and the 420 appears from stats the perfect Elan 7 mate, but what major functions do you gain with the 550. Canon's site and most reviews seam vague in this regard.


I won't go into a feature-by-feature comparison of the two units.

If you find most reviews to seam [sic] vague, then you might read more of them. I've already stated the obvious.


My main complaints with the Vivitar is it over exposes in auto mode from time to time , (but that's normal I guess--likely more operator error then the flash :D.) Second it takes all day to recycle, and finally it humms like an old tube style TV when it's charging--drives me nuts, my ears ring non-stop if I use it indoors. I have tilt but no swivel on the head, this is only a minor issues for me at this time.

One reason that the 550EX and 420EX have tilt and swivel is that those are really essential when you are trying to do a Canon wireless flash scheme. Depending on the situation, it is important to have these things "looking at each other" or be able to see master/slave data link over IR.

---Bob Gross---[/i]

[Jon]

I've been limping by with an old Vivitar flash for some time. After shooting with it this past Friday night on the sidelines of a local football game I've had enough. The local photographer from the paper was shooting a D1h with what looked to be a fairly nice Nikon flash, if I recall it was an SB80. Anyway his charge times ran circles around me.


If you were running with alkalines and he was using NiMH cells, his flash would recycle faster. His flash would also recycle faster if he was using an external battery pack, or if your flash was less powerful than his, so drawing down the capacitor more each shot. If your sole reason for upgrading is the recycle times, you should look into these possibilities. Of course, I'd recommend the 550EX (or 580EX when it becomes more available) as the logical upgrade (more oomph than the 420EX, thus it'll recycle faster for photos at a given distance, plus more capabilities built-in). It also supports an external battery pack.

[jalafer]

I have had 2 flashes, first I had the Sigma with an 300D. It worked very fine but the quality construction is not very good. One day I broke the flash shoe, then I bought a Canon 420 for my current 10D. In my oinion this is the best for this camera. Quality is perfect and works faultless. Also for me is very important the size is very much smaller than the SIgma and the 550. These 2 flashes are very big, the balance in the camera is not good. I feel much better with the 420, much smaller and ligther and my 10D does not try to flip all the time...
I really recommend you this flash, except for the 300D without the hack.

[chris clements]

Is compatibility still an issue if you opt for non-Canon flashes?
A few years ago I had a Sigma that was fully-functional with my EOS 100 but went haywire when I upgraded to a 50. Sigma admitted the flash couldn't cope with whatever tweaks Canon had added in the new camera, but weren't about to offer me any re-chipping/re-programming.

[Cordell]

I will recommend the Sigma if money is an issue. For the price of the 420 you can get the Sigma with all of the features of the 550. As mentioned the build quality is not as good as Canon's, but I'm not rough with my equipment anyway. I've used the Canon 420 and 550 and don't see the extra money as worth it. I actually sold my 420 to buy the Sigma.

If you go with the Sigma make sure you get the DG model. It works great with DSLRs. Oh yeah, the Sigma owner's manual is crap.

Good luck

[MrChad]

sole[/i] reason for upgrading is the recycle times, you should look into these possibilities. Of course, I'd recommend the 550EX (or 580EX when it becomes more available) as the logical upgrade....

First off Bob G. thanks a million for the advice!

Jon, he didn't have an external pack. His Nikon flash looked very simaliar to the 550 in size vs. the 420. I'm sure he was using NiMH vs my alkalines. The Vivitar is an old hold over from my old AE-1 so I figure it's got to be just plain old and slow regardless of batteries. It may have instructions but I think I my sister has them since I gave her the AE-1 and an old bag I had.

jalafer, does the 300D hack really work interms of flash control, does it work like a 10D with the 420EX?

Hhmmm, sucky directions and cheap build quality of the Sigma has me leary now.

Oh the 580EX, man that price is killing me $480-ish....that's alot to shell out for a digital flash if I don't even have the digital body yet. I sure do love it's specs though. But it may be best I go 420EX and build my skill a bit before dumping an extra $300 on a flash that could better be used towards and actual digital body or new lens.

[RichardSimon]

I own the 420, and I have been very pleased with its capabilities. After trying to an old flash in manual mode, the 420 is pure pleasure to use. Only a little care, and it gives good, consistent results, automatically. I generally hate flash, but with the 420, I have gotten great results using the tilt and swivel to bounce it. On the few occasions when I have needed it, I was able to make shots every two to three seconds (using NiMH batteries, and close enough that the flash wasn't using full power). For example, starting with a fully charged set of batteries, over the course of an hour or so I was able to make ~180 exposures before the recharge time slowed enough that I slipped in my next set of NiMH batteries.

I can see where the extra capabilities of the 550 (or the 580?) might be nice, but I personally don't do enough flash photography to justify the higher price. In your case, if you go with the 420, you can use it for some time before you decide if you need something more capable. At that point, the 420 would become a very useful slave unit to the 550 or 580.

[MrChad]

Yeh, Rick I have been thinking of the 420ex since it would use all my focusing points at this moment. Not sure if the 580ex would support all the points but I know the 550ex only uses the horizontal, and I do love using portrait mode and that may be an issue.

[Illegally_Alive]

I'm sorry to ask this if it has already been stated, BUT
Can the sigma 500dg super work as a slave wirelessly (using IR) with the 550ex?
Thanks!

[Cordell]

I'm sorry to ask this if it has already been stated, BUT
Can the sigma 500dg super work as a slave wirelessly (using IR) with the 550ex?
Thanks!

The Sigma works perfectly fine with the Canon flashes. It can work as a master or slave within a group of Canons. It can also work as a regular slave flash.

MrChad, don't let the build quality of the Sigma fool you. I don't know what you plan to do with your flash to damage it, but I wouldn't worry. I shoot weddings and models. I had one problem with cracking the hotshoe seat but that was because I tightened it too hard. Sigma fixed it for free and I got it back within 10 days (including shipping time). People are comparing it to Canon, but does that mean it is cheap. No way. I love it for all the functionality and price. I don't throw my equipment around regardless of who built it.

I would highly recommend the Sigma DG model.

[MrChad]

Cordell, (W/ regard to the Sigma 500DG flash)

How does the AF assist of the 500DG compare to the 550EX?
(Does it use all the Elan/Rebel 7 AF points?)

Does the rear display illuminate?

How are the rear buttons/controls?

Exactly how crappy are the directions?
Do I need a full degree from Canon-electronics school to be able to interpret what may or may not be the functions?

[juanchymejia]

I used the 420EX for 5 months and to be honest with you guys I was very unpleased with the results it was giving me.

I used with Canon Digital Rebel and I had to be less than 15 feet from object to get good exp. I just got the 550 EX and the difference is really amazing, you'd really be amazed of the results. If you really need something good, think about 550EX. Good luck.

[MrChad]

Well, thanks for all the reply's I ended up getting the 420EX since my current body is the Elan 7N the 420EX seamed the perfect match.

I'm quite happy with the flash, just fantastic compared to the Vivitar I was using. I used it on the sidelines of a football game last friday, this puppy charges and fires fast. 3 rabid burst were not an issue. I used some Energizer Lithium AA's since my NiMH's weren't ready on the charger. The flash showed up via UPS literally before I went out the door. And if anyone cares you can use the 420EX in the rain if you dry it off alot :P All my gear needed a little dry out when I got home, woops! Either I'm just hard core or stupid.

The price alone was worth it just to get the AF assist, that's fantastic.
I finally don't need to manual focus at night time football games, even with my slow zoom.

Features I was suprised with....
-Studio strobe (a rapid burst for several seconds to prelight if needed.)
-High speed shutter sync is very nice. (flash at 1/250+ wow!)
-All of the LED's save for the exposure currect light (green) are red.
-Did I say the AF assist beam is awesome!

I thought I'd miss the manual functions of my Vivitar, but with a flash this well suited to the Canon body I find I don't miss the controls at this point.

Thanks again all!

[dsze]

I went with the 420 to replace my old vivitar flash too! My decision was based on price/size. I was also buying 2 new lenses and a tripod at the same time so, I couldn't justify doubling my cost for the 550, and the 550 just seems so much larger (physically), which I didn't like.

Overall, I have not been let down by the 420. I've been very happy with it for weddings/portraits and general fun shooting.

-daniel