Flash or No Flash?

[mestes]

I have a question, I have been shooting indoor sports and only had a 70-200mm f/4 USM and on camera flash to use and was getting ok results but had to do a lot of post-processing to fix them.

I have recently purchased a Canon 85mm f/1.8 USM and a Speedlite 580ex II

I am wondering if I will need the speedlite with the 85mm or not.

Examples below

Out of Camera Image:
400D (XTi), 1/400, f/4, ISO 1600, 70-200mm 4 USM @ 73mm
http://www.mattestes.com/photos/tips/Before_IMG_7893.jpg


After Post Processing
http://www.mattestes.com/photos/tips/After_IMG_7893.jpg

[BiikeMike]

There is only one way to find out..... ;)

[MJPhotos24]

Problem you're going to run into is if the flash is allowed at all. Flash is distracting, some schools allow it - some don't. Some will say it's fine and then change there mind 1 quarter into the game and say "enough!" If you can get results without the flash it's better IMO as it just doesn't annoy people as a flash does, note that a 580 is a hellova lot more powerful and bright than an on camera flash from the P&S mom is using.

[Apollo11]

Many people use the 85mm for indoor sports such as basketball, volleyball, etc. It would allow you to really open up the aperture to throw the background out of focus, plus bring your ISO down dramatically, reducing noise. It is a phenomenal lens and one of the best Canon has to offer, IMO. In addition to indoor sports, you'll be blown away when you see portraits you take with the 85mm.

Also, are you in auto exposure for these? It appears that the metering was more on the background than the subjects---the girls are more underexposed, and noisier as a result.

[dmwierz]

The first shot is underexposed and the "fixed" shot looks like an underexposed image that you tried to "fix" in post - not the best.

Mike is correct, using flash can be a bit touchy, though I've not once had an issue with it. If you can bounce the flash, or get it off camera (on a stand or mounted to something up high) fired with a pocket wizard, you may reduce the chances of having someone complain about this.

I seriously doubt an f/4.0 lens is going to let you do much of anything indoors withOUT a flash unless you're shooting at a pro arena.

The 85 f/1.8 is a good lens, but every time I try to use it (I tried again this past Tuesday night) I find it too short for more than half the shots I take. I also don't like the RAZOR thin depth of field.

[mestes]

Many people use the 85mm for indoor sports such as basketball, volleyball, etc. It would allow you to really open up the aperture to throw the background out of focus, plus bring your ISO down dramatically, reducing noise. It is a phenomenal lens and one of the best Canon has to offer, IMO. In addition to indoor sports, you'll be blown away when you see portraits you take with the 85mm.

Also, are you in auto exposure for these? It appears that the metering was more on the background than the subjects---the girls are more underexposed, and noisier as a result.

I shot these in M mode with metering mode set to partial, af set to AI Servo, ISO 1600 should I be using different settings?

[dmwierz]

Nobody can tell you what settings to use at your gym. That's why it's important that you need to know how to operate your own camera. I personally use evaluative metering but also use a handheld light meter indoors so I rarely even LOOK at my camera's meter. I also utilize the histogram to monitor my exposure.

Check out the podcasts here. The first one is on sports photography in general, and the second is on shooting sports indoors:

http://www.sportsphotographycast.com

In the second one, the three parts of the exposure triangle are discussed. To control your exposure, you modify any of these three. To brighten your image, you need to either a) open your lens up further (which you can't do since you're already wide open, hence my comment about your f/4.0 lens not being wide enough to shoot indoor sports); b) decrease your shutter speed which isn't cool with shooting sports or c) raise your ISO which is gonna be tough since you're already as high as you can go with your camera.

Listen to the podcasts above, read a book on photography, check out the stickies at the top of this forum, get out and shoot some more, have fun, come back here and post some more and let's see where you are :)

Shooting with the f/1.8 is not a panacea. It comes with its own limitations and restrictions. I far prefer my 70-200 f/2.8 shooting with artificial light, but that's another topic entirely.

As you are finding out, there are challenges with covering indoor sports, but many of these can be overcome if you shoot smart and learn how to use your equipment.

Dennis

[mestes]

Thanks for the help guys.

Dennis actually I have been doing a lot of reading here and was actually listening to the first pod cast right when I seen your post.

I have a basketball game I am shooting tomorrow I will post some straight from camera results for some more tips.

[dmwierz]

m - good luck. I have 2 games tomorrow night myself, but with the WX forecast (8"+ of snow, which will probably cancel the games), it appears they might not make it. Up in Rockford, it looks like you may be spared for once, but down here in Plainfield, we might not be so lucky.

Looking forward to seeing you shots.

Dennis

[mestes]

I hope we get missed, we have had a wacky month here we have had huge snow storms, then tornados, and even flooding last thing we need is more snow.

[mestes]

Well got out tonight and used the new lens and decided to go with no flash as I am not 100% sure I can use it.

Here are two of my best only thing done to them was a little sharpen and add watermark.

Shot all in AV mode / wide open.

ISO800 1/500 f/1.8 85mm
http://www.mattestes.com/photos/HHS/IMG_8962.jpg

ISO800 1/400 f/1.8 85mm
http://www.mattestes.com/photos/HHS/IMG_8998.jpg

ISO800 1/500 F1.8 85mm
http://www.mattestes.com/photos/HHS/IMG_8894.jpg