Estate Agency

[sammycanon]

Right, I am an estate agent from the UK... We have recently started to create a new tier to our company which allows us to sell and market the more "high end" property if you like... So, I need to up my game in the photography side of things!

I have looked at a few agents around and there is one ehich really stands out, the images taken are excellent and is something I will be working towards.

eg- http://www.srushton.co.uk/properties_details.asp?id=898

How on earth do I create images as good as that, the equiptment I use is a Canon 400D, Sigma 10-20mm Lens, Speedlite Flash (sometimes).

I find shooting indoors quite difficult, the lighting seems to go 'orange/sepia' like? I usually shoot at quite high ISO in low light as I do try to shoot with lights off!! Also, my F-Point is allways around 5.5 to reduce shutter speed...

Any ideas on what these guys are using? is it possible to tell what lighting the photographer is using from looking at the images?

Thanks in Advance!!

Sam

[I Simonius]

Right, I am an estate agent from the UK... We have recently started to create a new tier to our company which allows us to sell and market the more "high end" property if you like... So, I need to up my game in the photography side of things!

I have looked at a few agents around and there is one ehich really stands out, the images taken are excellent and is something I will be working towards.

eg- http://www.srushton.co.uk/properties_details.asp?id=898

How on earth do I create images as good as that, the equiptment I use is a Canon 400D, Sigma 10-20mm Lens, Speedlite Flash (sometimes).

I find shooting indoors quite difficult, the lighting seems to go 'orange/sepia' like? I usually shoot at quite high ISO in low light as I do try to shoot with lights off!! Also, my F-Point is allways around 5.5 to reduce shutter speed...

Any ideas on what these guys are using? is it possible to tell what lighting the photographer is using from looking at the images?

Thanks in Advance!!

Sam
His verticals are not distroted whichh either means he has positioned his camera ver very carefully or tat he /she has a Tilt shift (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=156&modelid=7328) lens

I don't know the settings on the 400 but he had got his white balance for indoor shot sbang on

That's one thing you ned to practice, getting indoor shots with good white balance (i.e. not yellowish)

Composition. he/she has been careful in the composition not to let the window light burn out any interior and the overall lightling is very even so he/she might have additional lighting over and above on camra flash

You will have to experiment yourself, start with your own house and tose of friends until you get it right - tose shots were taken by someone with experience and there is no substitute for that. Im sure you could take shots like that but you will have to practice practice practice;-)

[sammycanon]

Many thanks for the help! I think I may just need more practice...

Up until recently i have allways shot with Auto white balance, been trying custom set-ups and they are coming out a little better.

Another thing, as you mentioned... window light. I HATE IT. With my shots the light seems to rip through the interior and distorts it :( I guess using some sort of lighting system will help reduce that.

[I Simonius]

Many thanks for the help! I think I may just need more practice...

Up until recently i have allways shot with Auto white balance, been trying custom set-ups and they are coming out a little better.

Another thing, as you mentioned... window light. I HATE IT. With my shots the light seems to rip through the interior and distorts it :( I guess using some sort of lighting system will help reduce that.

examine that linked shots again - try to duplicate his compositions somehwere to eliminate window excess light

[sammycanon]

Yeah, I love the natural look of the images... the light and exposure is spot on for what I need... will have to have a play around with the camera i think!!!

:)

[PhotosGuy]

I usually shoot at quite high ISO in low light as I do try to shoot with lights off!! One way to duplicate his shots is to have the lights on to add interest to the shot. Carry bulbs with you in case you need to boost a light. Another thing, as you mentioned... window light. I HATE IT. You need to choose the right time of day, or else put something on the outside of the window to reduce the light. Try the Roscor 85N6 (http://www.productionadvantageonline.com/Rosco-Color/RR%203406.aspx)which shifts daylight to tungsten and also reduces the light transmission to 17%. It comes in a 21" roll & is 57" wide.

Or the N6 which reduces the light to 12% (3-stops) without changing the color temp.
http://www.productionadvantageonline.com/Search/N6.aspx

[EveryMilesAMemory]

Forgive me if this sounds idiotic, but I;d make sure that you're shooting in RAW, that way you can adjust the white balance to what ever setting might work.

Sometimes rooms might have a few different types of bulbs to compete with, and in RAW, you'll have a better chance to correct this than you do with a normal Jpeg.

Shooting on a f/5 might be hard if you're not using a tripod. If you use a tripod you'll be able to set your ISO lowe which will tighten the grain and allow you to expericment with different settings to get the desired effect.

Maybe set the camera on the tripod, and then bracket multiple exposures till the right one jumps out at you.

Good luck

[strancali]

I agree with Pat 100% that you should shot RAW. You're going to fix the image anyway so why not save the frustration and shoot RAW to begin with. You can easily adjust your WB and other settings to find the best looking shot. Good luck.

[Rubi Jane]

Tripod is a must. Make sure your lense is parallel to the walls and perpendicular to the floor to reduce lens distortion, then get comfy with correcting distortion in PS for times you can't achieve that. Use a low ISO and stop down the lens to f11 or so to get the details. Shoot RAW and try to balance the interior light with the exterior light (if you can) to help reduce blown out windows. A speedlight, making sure all lights are on and perhaps higher wattage bulbs just for the shot will all help.

You can try bracketing your exposure in AV or M to see which exposure works best for each room. It also gives you the opportunity to blend exposures to help balance the window light. Time of day, position of window in frame can help minimize the over-exposure of window light as previously mentioned.

Wow... 2 Mil quid, that's an expensive pad ;)

[jpwone]

Hi Sam

Before I make a comment I just want to say I am not having a go at you personally but just trying to help here.

Good interior and exterior architectural photography is difficult and time consuming. I've spent a whole day getting one shot and a further day processing it. The techniques are varied and complex and require a good understanding of light, colour temperature, mixed light sources, colour correction, perspective, Depth of Field, the equipment required and post processing. You will not learn it in a day or by trying to follow a few tips. If you were a skilled photographer and wanted to have a go there would be a point to trying to help but from where you are starting I would say get some one who knows how to do this to do it. There is a lot more to good photography than having a good camera.

To get this in perspective. You want to sell higher end properties but market them on a shoe string? Lets say the property is £1M (not unusual today in the UK). A good architectural photographer (not high end just your average competent pro) is going to cost in the order of £1000 for the 2 days. That represents 0.1 percent of the sale price. Get it done professionally is my advice. If I wanted to sell a high end property would you recommend I do it myself? Do you want to be a photographer or an estate agent?

Contact me if you really want some help doing this and I will find some time to try to explain how it is done and why you really need some help to do it.

[delhi]

Right, I am an estate agent from the UK... We have recently started to create a new tier to our company which allows us to sell and market the more "high end" property if you like... So, I need to up my game in the photography side of things!

I have looked at a few agents around and there is one ehich really stands out, the images taken are excellent and is something I will be working towards.

eg- http://www.srushton.co.uk/properties_details.asp?id=898

How on earth do I create images as good as that, the equiptment I use is a Canon 400D, Sigma 10-20mm Lens, Speedlite Flash (sometimes).

I find shooting indoors quite difficult, the lighting seems to go 'orange/sepia' like? I usually shoot at quite high ISO in low light as I do try to shoot with lights off!! Also, my F-Point is allways around 5.5 to reduce shutter speed...

Any ideas on what these guys are using? is it possible to tell what lighting the photographer is using from looking at the images?

Thanks in Advance!!

Sam


These are actually quite pedestrian images. There's a good RE photography site in flickr that you can get advise from working interior photogs. It's not real difficult. But it does require some planning and thinking behind.

[Col_M]

Any ideas on what these guys are using? is it possible to tell what lighting the photographer is using from looking at the images?

Thanks in Advance!!

Sam
You can tell that the photographer is using flash as the main source in a number of these pics. Here are a few tell tale signs

1. Views out the window aren't blown out.
2. The room is neutral in colour but the incandecent lamps are throwing out warm light (main light is different temperature to lamps)
3. In a few photos you can see evidence of a large area of light above and behind the camera indicating the flash was bounced off the wall and/or ceiling behind the camera.

http://www.srushton.co.uk/propertyimages/DSC_5328bt_Large.jpg
In this one the front of the bed is blown out indicating it was quite close to a bright light source, my guess - bounced flash.

http://www.srushton.co.uk/propertyimages/DSC_5334bt_Large.jpg
In this one you can see some spots at the top and left of the photo that are brighter than the rest of the scene, my guess - flash bounced off ceiling of stair well.

http://www.srushton.co.uk/propertyimages/DSC_5316bt_Large.jpg
Look at the mirror on the far wall, it shows a bright spot in the top corner of the room behind the camera , bounce flash again.

Learn to look for clues like this in the photos and you'll find the mystery of (good) flash photography will be less mysterious ;)

BTW I could well be wrong with my guesses, I'm no flash expert but if you want to be sure try to replicate the photo how you think they were shot. There's nothing to lose trying and with practice it'll all become much easier. :)

[Gary_Evans]

You want to sell higher end properties but market them on a shoe string? Lets say the property is £1M (not unusual today in the UK). A good architectural photographer (not high end just your average competent pro) is going to cost in the order of £1000 for the 2 days. That represents 0.1 percent of the sale price. Get it done professionally is my advice. If I wanted to sell a high end property would you recommend I do it myself?

Agreed.

My wife is a property developer and never ceases to be amazed that an estate agents fee can be several thousand pounds on some properties and they still think that they can get away with shooting their own images - often on point and press cameras.

[crash331]

Can't you also mimic the undistorted lines with perspective in photoshop? Don't think you necesarily have to spend money on a TS lens.

[bildeb0rg]

I think you're just being cheap trying to do the photographs yourself. But then my second wife left me for an estate agent, so I could be biased...

[and.duncan]

Strobist pointed me to a very good interview on this very subject the other day

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2008/02/scott-hargis-interview-tonight-8-pm-pt.html

[sammycanon]

Agreed.

My wife is a property developer and never ceases to be amazed that an estate agents fee can be several thousand pounds on some properties and they still think that they can get away with shooting their own images - often on point and press cameras.

I agree to an extent, but, business is about reducing costs and getting maximum profit... An estate agency provides a service which joe public need.

I feel that a lot of professional photographers charge rediculous ammounts for there time, but, they are a business, making money is what busines' do best surely?

Photography is a Hobby of mine, I am both an Estate Agent in the shop, and a Marketing guy for the images/floorplans/brochures. If photography is a hobby and a I feel I could come up with images like those given the time, then surely, why pay for them? I am still young and willing to learn, and I know I have yet to learn a LOT.

Also, managed to chat to the guy who axtually takes the photos for them, he obviously didnt want to give too much away but he advised me that he uses no lighting at all, rarely even a speedlight. Just makes sure the images are taken from the right angles, correctly exposed. Then he tweaks them in Photoshop and does a lot of processing.

I asked him how on earth he makes them so clearly, and without getting blown out window light and his reply was.... "Mate, Ive been doing this for 30 years, I just know how to..."

hehe.

Practice some more me thinks.

The chap was really helpfull, I asked if I could spend the day with him and he could 'show me the ropes' so to speak and he will get back to me about it.

I do agree that some agents are shocking, some of the images they take are undeniably bad and are so unclear you cant even make out whats in the picture... thats why we are looking at ways to go a whole new level with the imagery and dont mind investing some money in to it.

Thanks for your help guys!!!! :)

[crash331]

I feel that a lot of professional photographers charge rediculous ammounts for there time

They charge what people will pay. If you want to stay competitive with other real estate agents, you're gonna have to pay what they pay.

Trust me, if a photographer tells you a price that seems high, it may seem like 100% profit to you, but it's not. People get it in their heads these days that just because anyone can buy a 10MP digital camera, that anyone can take pictures. Not true.

[Gary_Evans]

I agree to an extent, but, business is about reducing costs and getting maximum profit... An estate agency provides a service which joe public need.

As do professional photographers



I feel that a lot of professional photographers charge rediculous ammounts


And estate agents dont?

But I do agree with you about being in business to make money

[sammycanon]

Dont get me wrong...

Estate Agents only charge what the general public is willing to pay, photographers do a great Job and there is a point where every business needs to be competetive, like for like.

The majority of Agents around here charge around 1.5% +VAT commision, we came in and started a straight 1% deal. Now they are following as they have no choice. The reason will be is that on the more "up market" property we will look to charge around 1.5%, a second tier to the company will be created and will allow A4 Glossy brochures, higher standards of photography, virtual tours and even Aerial images as an option to vendors. They will also go in magazines monthly such as cheshire life/lancashire life etc..

Thanks for your help guys. :)

[jpwone]

You need to differentiate between a higher standard of equipment and a higher standard of photography. Using the higher standard of equipment does not necessarily produce a higher standard of photography.

If you are producing A4 brochures of a high standard and submitting to the higher end magazines the photography will have to be very good. Like I said before, the cost of getting a pro to do this for you is relatively small. On the figures you give us and if we assume a selling price of £500K then the agents fees are £7.5K . Spending £1K on photography may seem a lot at first glance but it is in fact 13% of the fee. On a £1M property the photography spend would be less than 7% of the fee. I really would recommend that you reconsider the plan to do it yourself. If you follow the DIY path the danger is the factor that differentiates you from other agents is not the price or service but the standard of photography.

[Alexajlex]

As mentioned without the right time of the day you're getting into stuff that is done on movie shoots or in $$$ photo shoots (gel the windows, change the light bulbs, etc.)

[sammycanon]

I still agree and dont... so far the prints have been good. I will post an example shot of one of my images and could you guys give me some C&C on them?

[sammycanon]

Here is an image which I took today...

C&C please, anything will help :)

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h122/samboRT/lounge.jpg

Sam

[sammycanon]

That was hand help, no tripod, iso 400 I think. Lights on.

Oh, an at 10mm (Sigma, on a 400D Body)

[Gary_Evans]

Where to start? The distortion is hideous, its not sharp, you have too high aviewpoint and should have lit the interior lights to give some warmth, the curtains and window frames are starting to burn out to name but the most obvious failings.

This obviously isnt a back street terrace and if I was selling my house and the estate agent produced this, I would be extremely disappointed to put it mildly.

By all means practice, but dont consider putting images like this on any details of properties you are marketing until your work is waaaay better than this.

Sorry, but I stick with my original comments.

[delhi]

Distortion is killer. Ditch the sigma and get the efs 10-22.
However a little time in PP can help reduce that distortion.
If you place a strobe to bounce off the walls you can light up the interior while maintaining exterior view. Turning on the lamps and fireplace help with the ambiance.

[sammycanon]

Where to start? The distortion is hideous, its not sharp, you have too high aviewpoint and should have lit the interior lights to give some warmth, the curtains and window frames are starting to burn out to name but the most obvious failings.

This obviously isnt a back street terrace and if I was selling my house and the estate agent produced this, I would be extremely disappointed to put it mildly.

By all means practice, but dont consider putting images like this on any details of properties you are marketing until your work is waaaay better than this.

Sorry, but I stick with my original comments.

Thanks for your comments, allthough they did come accross and some what arrogant...

Somebody got a bit of a grudge against Estate Agents? ;)

I am by no means a professional photographer, practice makes perfect I guess!! If I was selling my house, in my area, I would be happy with those images... as are the vendors.

Here is an idea of images other agents do charging 1.5% commision on a similar priced property (250k +)

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-19371383.rsp?pa_n=1&tr_t=buy

There we go, and I havent dug out the worst, that was listed within the last 24hours.

:cool:

[jpwone]

Got to agree with Gary here.

Keystoning.
White balance of interior is off.
Exterior is over exposed - not necessarily a bad thing but try to avoid losing detail around the frame.
Interior table lamps should be lit (adds to ambience).
Wide angle lens creates a cavern like effect in what I assume is a standard Victorian front room.

These smaller rooms are very difficult to do. There is little set up room and they can have a relatively high ceiling making it difficult to get any ceiling or light fitting detail. Sometimes you are better taking two or three images from different positions to concentrate the viewers attention on the features of the room that you consider important. Your alternative here is to use a 30 to 50mm lens and stitch both horizontally and vertically. Difficult and time consuming as you would have to shoot in raw (you will want to control the white balance in post processing which is far easier in raw), layer different exposures (interior and exterior view) and layer the colour corrected elements of each image and then stitch these images to produce a final image ready for cropping etc.

You could certainly get a usable image in the room with the equipment you have but you need to fix the obvious problems first. Keystoning and white balance. Using a tripod, tape measure and spirit level will significantly reduce the keystoning.

Just seen your reply. Don't be so defensive :-) Not arrogant - genuinely trying to help. You cannot ask a pro to critique your work and not expect some comment. You may regard it as nit picking but that is the difference between a pro photographer and a guy with a camera. As I said in an earlier post your key differentiator between yourselves and the competition can be the images. If you are happy to use the lowest common denominator as your reference for what is acceptable then ou are not going to achieve the standard that you initially indicated you wanted.

[sammycanon]

Thanks for your comments guys, I was tinkering a little bit with the image and it may have been me which ruined the white balance :rolleyes: Will check the original when back in work.

Gary, may I ask what the too high viewpoint means? Sorry if I sound a little dumb but still a bit rusty on keywords :lol:

Sam

[sammycanon]

The arrogant part was in jest ;)

I understand I will get critisism, its to be expected.

Help is Help :)

[Gary_Evans]

Too high a viewpoint means you have your camera too high. Position it lower and keep the sensor perfectly vertical

With regards to the c&c. You asked for comments and I gave them. I dont use flowery language, I wont describe things as awesome when they are not. Nobody ever learnt a thing from platitudes, and neither will you. Nothing personal was meant by it - I just move in hard, commercial circles.

And no I dont have a grudge against estate agents, we use them to regularly :)

[sammycanon]

Which agent do you use Gary? Wouldnt mind a look at some of there images :)

I thought the viewpoint was quite high on the link which i posted earlier... a lot of ceiling!!...

Is there any tips which I can use to better the images, so, use a tripod, keep the viewpoint level... what about camera settings?

Thanks,

Sam

[crash331]

Wow, the images you linked to are TERRIBLE. I wouldn't be surprised if those images lost the agent thousands of dollars on the sale.

[Roy Webber]

Hi Guys,

I use a 350D with a 10-22 for most of my shots. For interiors, I make a note of the outside exposure, set this on Manual and bounce flash from the ceiling with + 2-3 extra stops on the flash. My 430 flashgun is always set with the pop ouy diffuser to cover the wide angle.

http://www.fuerteventura-propertyworld.com/

[sammycanon]

^ thats great! I really need to start working more with my flash gun!!! I allways use the diffuser/light reflector on mine, it spreads so much more evenly!!

With the flash, I do struggle to work on balancing the inside light with external window light... gues I just need to work on it more.

Rob- The pictures look lovely, help that over there you have a blue sky everyday ;)

[Roy Webber]

Hi Sam,

Yes, the sun is always shing in sunny Fuerteventura. The problem is, that this creates bleached out windows if you do not use manual exposure...usually shutter 180 and ap at f 11... with iso 200 to give more flash power.

http://www.fuerteventura-propertyworld.com/

[sammycanon]

Yeah, I need to start having a play with some settings I think!

Your pictures are great!

Sam.

[Roy Webber]

Yeah, I need to start having a play with some settings I think!

Your pictures are great!

Sam.
Thanks, and have you had any success yet?

[Roy Webber]

I think you're just being cheap trying to do the photographs yourself. But then my second wife left me for an estate agent, so I could be biased...
:lol: lol

[Nightstalker]

Looks like I'm in your area (Warrington), what Agent do you work for?

We have approached several higher-end agents offering photographic services thinking that as images are key to selling property there should be a market... Everyone seems to be trying ot cut costs at the moment though.

Good luck with what your trying to do - as ha been said, its not easy.

[Roy Webber]

Looks like I'm in your area (Warrington), what Agent do you work for?

We have approached several higher-end agents offering photographic services thinking that as images are key to selling property there should be a market... Everyone seems to be trying ot cut costs at the moment though.

Good luck with what your trying to do - as ha been said, its not easy.

Agents on Fuerteventura have always cut costs, its usually anyone in the office thats free with a P & S.... lol

[Roy Webber]

How's business Sam, and has your photography improved,

Regards Roy