First try at tennis

[AdamLewis]

123

[AdamLewis]

And yes..I know theyre a little dark -.-

[Aaagogo]

OMG... my image of you totally changed... for a first time attempt, these suck... LOL... no no I'm joking... I thought i was good for a 1st timer you're much better... this one is for real

loving everything you're dishing out

#6 is my favourite, followed by #5.. wish the ball was in the left 1/3 frame

[mrbojangles13]

yeally like 5. what shutter were you shooting at?

[AdamLewis]

These were all f/2, 1/800, 2500 ISO. I think next time I go, Im going to try out 3200 ISO

[Gary Lindquist]

Nicely done. I have to do some tennis in the near future. You must have used the 135mm lens.

[khall]

For good tennis pictures, you need to have the players feet in the picture.

[dmwierz]

For good tennis pictures, you need to have the players feet in the picture.

I totally and 100% disagree with this. Take a look here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/apphoto/wire?id=850

You will rarely see full-body pro tennis shots. It's normally all about the eyes, intensity, the ball and the racquet.

Your shots are good for your first time out, and also considering they are indoors. The first few times I shot tennis, I actually went to the ESPN site above and cut and pasted a bunch of the shots into a slide show (maybe 100 images) and looked at them over and over to try and figure out a) where they were shot from, b) what type of focal length was used and c) whether I liked them or not. BTW, for anyone reading, ESPN.com has photo wires for almost every sport and I highly recommend spending time there reviewing the images even it you're not a noob. You can ALWAYS learn something from the pro's.

#2 would be better shot from farther away, and that would have gotten the ball, or triggered a little later. #3 you just missed the timing. #7 you just missed the framing (did you shoot a burst?)

Adam - one thing I will say is I almost always want the ball in my shots. Backhand shots are the most compact and can be shot vertical in the near court. Forehand shots aren't as "attractive" as the body gets all splayed out if you're shooting into the far court (as in your shot #1) Kinda like this one:
http://www.pbase.com/dmwierz45/image/76517959.jpg

Sometimes you can position yourself close to the end line for forehand shots and shoot into the player (like you might for a backhand), compressing the shot. Here is what I mean about compressing (squeezing a lot of stuff into the frame):

Here's a backhand shot across the net:
http://www.pbase.com/dmwierz45/image/76070825.jpg

Here's a backhand shot in the near court (you've seen this one before):
http://www.pbase.com/dmwierz45/image/76521368.jpg

And another tight, tight shot:
http://www.pbase.com/dmwierz45/image/76382398.jpg

You can get a less "goofy" forehand shot into the far court if you get the player tracking the ball rather than just before they hit it, like this:
http://www.pbase.com/dmwierz45/image/76452531.jpg

Be advised, though, many women tend to look all scrunched up at the point of impact - even normally nice looking ones:
http://www.pbase.com/image/92461418.jpg

As opposed to before impact:
http://www.pbase.com/dmwierz45/image/76122258.jpg

With your 135, if you can get right near the net, and low (this was shot at 120mm from a photo pit - something you probably don't have - but you can probably still sit on the ground), you can get angles like this:
http://www.pbase.com/dmwierz45/image/76264509.jpg

Hopefully this long reply helps,

Dennis

[whuband]

For good tennis pictures, you need to have the players feet in the picture.

For a good portrait, must we include the feet also?:)

[Joe Cyr]

For good tennis pictures, you need to have the players feet in the picture.
No you don't. And the point was clearly illustrated by the images posted.

[AdamLewis]

Yeah I know I missed the timing on a few. These actually were not shot in burst because I didnt want to rely on that. I wanted to learn tennis without it and then its something I could add later. I had trouble framing with people close to the net simply because Im just not used to the game yet. Practice practice though and I think Ill get much better.

[SYS]

When I shoot tennis, I always try to make sure that I get the ball in the picture for drama. In the above pictures by Dennis W., if you take the ball out of any of his images, they just don't come off as good. So forget the feet, but keep the eyes on the ball, though.

[Zivnuska]

Dennis,

Do you hand hold or use a monopod?

BTW, great pics!

[AdamLewis]

I just wish I could be shooting at 1/5000 like Dennis was!..

So basically keep the ball in the frame. Im aware of this but just need to work on it some more. For a sport Ive never photographed, its a new challenge to anticipate when the ball is coming into the frame and when to take the picture.

[Aaagogo]

let me pick my jaw up from the floor from those tennis images.

[Croasdail]

Not to trying to be difficult, and I agree the ball is always desirable, but it is not required in my book to have the ball in the shot. I don't have many available on line as examples, but I will share these. Feel free to think I am nuts, to me but there is more to sports photography than "peak action" shots. They don't tell the whole story.

http://www.pbase.com/atravelor/image/80787099.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/atravelor/image/80787235.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/atravelor/image/80786709.jpg

Frankly some strokes just don't look good caught at peak. Adam, your shot 1 is a good example of it. It just looks odd.

Adam, I am impressed you even tried these shots. I hate the indoor meets and avoid them like the plague. Kudos to you for even trying. The general advice given here is sound. If you want a sure bet shot, ball in shot with good facial expression is the safe way to go. But for conditions like you were shooting in, sometimes you can satisfy your needs with more static non-peak shots that are loaded with emotion. For non-ball shots you posted, you can get away with shot 2, but shot 3 will never be acceptable. If peak is going to be missed, you always want something is about to happen rather then peak happened and you missed it. The exception to this is obviously if there is great expression in it. Shot 3 isjust missing drama. All this of course is just my opinion - so use it for what it's worth.

[dmwierz]

Yep, the 400 shots were on the monopod, but when shooting the 120-300 and 70-200 I handheld.

BTW, shooting pro tennis was where I first started shooting for REAL with both eyes open. Made a HUGE difference in terms of getting the ball in frame.

Mark, clearly not all sports photos are peak action images, but I don't think that was the point of this particular post, nor of what Adam was attempting to accomplish with his photos. While the ball isn't always a requirement to make a stellar capture (especially if you're doing a background piece, or emotional capture like your head hanging image), I'll hold that given the option, I'll take the ball in frame every time.

[Croasdail]

My point was only that sometimes you have to take what the conditions will give ya. I haven't shot at the indoor courts up a Louisville, but the ones here at Duke and UNC are horribly lit. I know of some parking garages that have better lights. Coming home with a sellable shot regardless of conditions is a critical skill to have. But your right Dennis, Ball, Expression, tension... clean background... all critical to have.

I used to be obsessed with peak action. Then I started noticing the types of my pictures that were being picked up, and almost 80% were of the feature image type. Not nearly as fun to capture, but they were the ones providing the checks. Today, and it may just be an oddity, but of the first 36 images on the site you posted, only 10 of the first 36 include the ball in any way. It sucks, but seeing and capturing the non-action shot is a skill the wire services are really looking for now. It's a skill I am really working on myself. It's kind of like the action shots are the ones that will get your mates to stop and say "dang", it's the non-action shots that pay the lights though....

sorry for the divergence.

[AdamLewis]

My point was only that sometimes you have to take what the conditions will give ya. I haven't shot at the indoor courts up a Louisville, but the ones here at Duke and UNC are horribly lit. I know of some parking garages that have better lights. Coming home with a sellable shot regardless of conditions is a critical skill to have. But your right Dennis, Ball, Expression, tension... clean background... all critical to have.




To be honest, the ones without the ball were that way because...
1) Im still learning how to shoot tennis. Thats the culmination of about 45 minutes of experience
and
2) The paper needed some pictures so I knew I could get some without the ball in it and I was sure to get those first. I know theyre not the best things in the world, but I knew that with the horrible lighting and my inexperience, it was one thing I could bank on for my first outing.

Ive got a lot of indoor tennis matches coming up and Im actually looking forward to it because it is a challenge. I hope Im able to progress in that arena before everything goes outdoors and gets much easier (In my opinion at least. Photography is always easier with more light ;) )

Thanks for all the comments guys.

[dmwierz]

Hey, Mark, I do hear ya. That's why every game I shoot, I come home with dozens of "stock shots". Rarely will one of my peak action shots be picked up for publication 'cuz the Getty guy, the AP gal, the local newspaper person, etc., all get first dibs on the game-changing action shots, and the images I've had in SI and ESPN the mag, etc, have all been stock shots (even stock action shots - images of players doing something, but nothing all that remarkable). This is why I am a real stickler for clean faces, strong emotions, sharp and clear eyes, etc...and yes, balls/pucks/shuttlecocks...

Adam - I applaud your attitude: "Im actually looking forward to it because it is a challenge." . You are correct: if you can figure out indoor sports, you'll have a big head start on outdoor sports come Spring. There are new challenges to being outside, but also rewards.

[TTGator]

Great dialogue in this thread guys. Thanks for all the info!

[michael_]

i would also consider increasing your shutter speed to 1/1000 so up ISO to 3200 or even up it to 1/1250 and fix the exposure in PP if you really wanted to.

i shot my first pro event just recently (Medibank International Sydney) and wow i found my calling, i have already lined up a newspaper to work for for the Australian Open next year, what a buzz.

Anyway one tip that takes practise, if you want the ball in the frame pull the trigger either as you hear the serve being hit and let fps trickle after the follow threw and similar for ground strokes, i found i was able to get the ball in frame almost 100% of the time doing this.

Like Dennis said go look at image libararies to see what the seasoned guys are doing, i hit the getty, espn, ap sites all before the tennis and found so many different shots tht i was able to get, some of the best are when the sun is casting a shadow over the court and you shoot from the stands and half the player or in some cases just their head is in the sun it creates a very cramatic shot ie this shot i took http://www.smpimages.com.au/details.php?gid=459&pid=15080 idealy i would have liked the shadow area darker but alas i was happy with how it turned out.

But i completely understand your comment "Im actually looking forward to it because it is a challenge." i completely agree and cant wait till Dec when th season starts again

[madplower4]

Go BearCats!!!

[AdamLewis]

i would also consider increasing your shutter speed to 1/1000 so up ISO to 3200 or even up it to 1/1250 and fix the exposure in PP if you really wanted to.

i shot my first pro event just recently (Medibank International Sydney) and wow i found my calling, i have already lined up a newspaper to work for for the Australian Open next year, what a buzz.

Anyway one tip that takes practise, if you want the ball in the frame pull the trigger either as you hear the serve being hit and let fps trickle after the follow threw and similar for ground strokes, i found i was able to get the ball in frame almost 100% of the time doing this.

Like Dennis said go look at image libararies to see what the seasoned guys are doing, i hit the getty, espn, ap sites all before the tennis and found so many different shots tht i was able to get, some of the best are when the sun is casting a shadow over the court and you shoot from the stands and half the player or in some cases just their head is in the sun it creates a very cramatic shot ie this shot i took http://www.smpimages.com.au/details.php?gid=459&pid=15080 idealy i would have liked the shadow area darker but alas i was happy with how it turned out.

But i completely understand your comment "Im actually looking forward to it because it is a challenge." i completely agree and cant wait till Dec when th season starts again

Thanks for the advice I may try upping the shutter speed for the mens games but one thing youve got to understand about these particular pictures is that in many of them, the ball isnt blurry because of a slow shutter but because of a very thin DOF. F/2 does that too me. I may try it higher at the womens game too to see if I like it or not.

Congratulations on your success.

[AdamLewis]

Go BearCats!!!

They lost :confused:

[dmwierz]

Adam,

You are correct about the ball (and often the racquet or arms of the players, even) being OOF from the DOF, not motion blur. Shooting with a 400 at f/2.8 court side (range of about 20 feet), the DOF is micro thin. Mid-day, I often would stop down 'cuz I frequently had shots where parts of the subjects face would be within the DOF and other parts outside of the DOF when they were turned sideways.

i would also consider increasing your shutter speed to 1/1000 so up ISO to 3200 or even up it to 1/1250 and fix the exposure in PP if you really wanted to.

I'd advise in favor of getting the exposure correct in the camera. Rarely can improperly-exposed images be "fixed" in post - this is just incorrect technique, IMO. If you don't have enough light to support a higher shutter speed, you shouldn't be shooting at the higher shutter speed - period. But this is just my opinion...YMMV.

[T2000]

I agree feet are not required. But I don't think you need the ball either. It's, of course, common but you don't NEED it.

My evidence ---------->www.proTennisPhotos.com

[SYS]

I agree feet are not required. But I don't think you need the ball either. It's, of course, common but you don't NEED it.

My evidence ---------->www.proTennisPhotos.com (http://www.proTennisPhotos.com)

Yes, you don't NEED the ball depending on the kind of shots you're making. In your ONE and ONLY example, the ball wasn't needed for the kind of drama you wanted to create -- accidentally or not. But in the case of Crosdail shot above, there's no drama without the ball. No offense to Crosdail, but except for the good exposure, the images didn't do me any good, particularly the first one.

[T2000]

One example? I counted 57 examples of shots without a ball (almost half).

[SYS]

One example? I counted 57 examples of shots without a ball (almost half).

My bad. The webpage's links weren't too eye catching, but I did manage to dig up other photos after your alert. Very nice images, too. Of the 57 shots without the ball, quite a bit of them are "emotion expression" shots, such as fist pumping, angst after a bad shot, etc. I love those types of shots, by the way. Of the rest of shots that involve swing action but without the ball, while I'm not saying they're bad, but I'll definitely take the shots WITH the ball in the picture over the ones without. Of the ones without the ball, I like the frontpage one the best, because it conveys a whole lot more than just a swing action by leading the viewer's eyes to other tennis landscapes with the interesting play of shadow, etc. The point is not whether having the ball in the picture automatically makes the picture or not, but whether the picture really makes a powerful statement or not depending on how the photographer wants to convey his vision.

[T2000]

Thanks for your feedback.
I will take another look at what I posted with your comments in mind and maybe make some changes in what I display in the future.
Regards.