Lighting Kits, Umbrellas, Softboxes, Oh my!

[nutsnbolts]

I'm curious...

I have gone through a few videos regarding studio equipment on what to buy, what you will need and so forth. However, I do have a question regarding what is the best way on going about this...

I don't want to build a studio out right but would like to take advantages of using softboxes/umbrellas.

Is it better to save up on kits that consists of the entire package like what Calumet, Strobist, etc. has to offer or is it better to buy, an umbrella or two including adapter, then buy strobes later on, and perhaps a softbox later on ... etc. Build as I go...?

I'm still experimenting and I am wondering whether you need the "complete" package to really get it going. I'm sure you don't need to but even from a $$$ standpoint.

[Double Negative]

You can build it up slowly, that's what I did.

Or, you can start with a good, basic kit such as the Impact kit from B&H for $98. Light stands, umbrellas and umbrella adapters - just add two flashes and maybe an ST-E2 and you're all set.

[ronmuller]

I'm in a similar situation to you, I want to pick up some stands and umbrellas. For now I plan on using my 420ex,580ex and ST-E2. Perhaps I'll graduate to mono-lights at some future time but if I do I assume the light stands and umbrellas would still be of use.

I'm planning on grabbing this kit for $158.95:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=403789&is=REG
It has larger umbrellas the one Double Negative pointed out and air cushioned stands to boot. If you price things out separately either of the kits listed here are good value for the money (IMO).

[atomick]

I followed the following path of additions and building upon knowledge, myself:

- Bare Flashes (580EX, 430EX)
- DIY diffusers (a la Chuck Gardener on dpreview.com)
- 2 superlight light stands
- + umbrella adapters
- DIY gels, grids (a la Strobist.com)
- + 2 Nikon Flashes (now that I'm grokking manual flash)
- +2 bigger (8'-11') stands
- +2 reflectors
- DIY ringflash
- +2 silver umbrellas

...and now I'm at the gates of wanting a studio strobe or two to cover what the small flash units can't quite handle.

Maybe this offers more specifics into a series of building gear as knowledge grows?

[ronmuller]

@atomick - If you were to do it all again would you skip the 580 type flashes and go directly to studio strobes?

[nutsnbolts]

I'm in a similar situation to you, I want to pick up some stands and umbrellas. For now I plan on using my 420ex,580ex and ST-E2. Perhaps I'll graduate to mono-lights at some future time but if I do I assume the light stands and umbrellas would still be of use.

I'm planning on grabbing this kit for $158.95:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=403789&is=REG
It has larger umbrellas the one Double Negative pointed out and air cushioned stands to boot. If you price things out separately either of the kits listed here are good value for the money (IMO).

This looks like a great kit! Not too expensive and seems compact enough. any other suggestions around the same range?

[ronmuller]

The kit Double Negative pointed out is the other option I was looking at for $98.95:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/475575-REG/Impact__Digital_Flash_Umbrella_Mount.html
My reasons for going with the more expensive kit was the larger 45 inch umbrellas and it includes a case. The 32 inch umbrellas are small for my uses I think. From the reading I've done the small umbrellas will do a single person ok but for larger groups it would not be a good choice. I should tell you that I've not performed an exhaustive search, once I found this kit a few days ago I decided it would work

[Wilt]

Sometimes it is only possible to buy certain accessories from the flash manufacturer, because the aftermarket is aimed toward light modifiers of interest only to professionals. For example, JTL accessories are available from JTL, but you would have a hard time finding a Photoflex or Chimera softbox to fit a JTL light. So in choosing the piecemeal approach, one has to know in advance where you wish to end up...buying a Photoflex softbox now but a JTL flash system later would not work, for example. Other things, like umbrellas, are more universal in nature, so knowing where you want to end up is not as important.

[e r y k]

The kit Double Negative pointed out is the other option I was looking at for $98.95:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/475575-REG/Impact__Digital_Flash_Umbrella_Mount.html
My reasons for going with the more expensive kit was the larger 45 inch umbrellas and it includes a case. The 32 inch umbrellas are small for my uses I think. From the reading I've done the small umbrellas will do a single person ok but for larger groups it would not be a good choice. I should tell you that I've not performed an exhaustive search, once I found this kit a few days ago I decided it would work

the 32 inch umbrella is more than enough IMO for small flashes.

all you really have to do is move it further away from your subject to get a softer look. with the 45 you can have it closer and get the same effect.

[nutsnbolts]

The kit Double Negative pointed out is the other option I was looking at for $98.95:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/475575-REG/Impact__Digital_Flash_Umbrella_Mount.html
My reasons for going with the more expensive kit was the larger 45 inch umbrellas and it includes a case. The 32 inch umbrellas are small for my uses I think. From the reading I've done the small umbrellas will do a single person ok but for larger groups it would not be a good choice. I should tell you that I've not performed an exhaustive search, once I found this kit a few days ago I decided it would work

I noticed that as well. The 45" umbrellas seems to be a good size (correct us if we are wrong) and this kit does come with more amenities than the 98 dollar kit.

[ronmuller]

the 32 inch umbrella is more than enough IMO for small flashes.

all you really have to do is move it further away from your subject to get a softer look. with the 45 you can have it closer and get the same effect.

I thought moving closer would give you a softer look as your apparent light source would appear bigger to the subject. :? (This assumes that the amount of light hitting the subject remains constant).

or put another way you could have the 45 a further distance from the subject and get the same softness as a 32 that is closer. Just how confused am I?

[nutsnbolts]

the 32 inch umbrella is more than enough IMO for small flashes.

all you really have to do is move it further away from your subject to get a softer look. with the 45 you can have it closer and get the same effect.

Ok, so in tight smaller spaces, the 45 would be a good option and if you have a 580ex, this would benefit as well.

[nutsnbolts]

On a side note, are there any other things, other than this kit that I would need?

Of course there are the mono lights, etc. but I think that can hold of awhile...while I have two 580ex. A softbox I guess can wait as well? correct?

[Wilt]

I thought moving closer would give you a softer look as your apparent light source would appear bigger to the subject. :? (This assumes that the amount of light hitting the subject remains constant).

or put another way you could have the 45 a further distance from the subject and get the same softness as a 32 that is closer. Just how confused am I?

In this regard, not confused at all. The issue which might arise with an overly large umbrella is that your light source must be able to fill it with light, in order for the apparent size benefit to be obtained. If it is unfilled, it might as well be smaller!

[Wilt]

the 32 inch umbrella is more than enough IMO for small flashes.

all you really have to do is move it further away from your subject to get a softer look. with the 45 you can have it closer and get the same effect.


larger = softer, and closer = larger

[ronmuller]

Thanks for clarifying that Wilt. So no harm in going with the 45. I suppose outside a smaller umbrella would be less likely to catch the wind and sail off on a world tour. :)

[atomick]

@atomick - If you were to do it all again would you skip the 580 type flashes and go directly to studio strobes?

I doubt I'd have skipped the portable flashes in my learning process...part of their appeal, to me, is their immediacy, and then can be set up, moved, played with, and struck all quite quickly, especially not needing AC power. This allows for rapid iteration through different lighting schemes. I'm also an illustrator who's always preferred watercolors and acrylics to oils, so the immediacy thing is a pattern I've noticed for a while. ;-)

If I had it to do all over again, I'd only change one approach: I'd have gotten cheaper flashes earlier, had maybe 4 SB-2X's, and then payed the 580EX-level dough on studio strobes by now. If you learn manual flash lighting, cheap strobes get you INCREDIBLY far and Canon speedlights (IMHO) don't get you tons of extra value. (If you prefer E-TTL metering, it's a different ballgame.)

As I get more experienced, I'm just realizing how larger light sources are often the Holy Grail for certain looks, where studio strobes excel, hence my slow turning towards that as a long-term goal.

Getting back to the OP's accessory questions, though, I think it's important to always look forward; all the stands, umbrellas (30-43" white and silver), and reflectors (30" and 45") will work with all my future lighting purchases, be they portable flashes or studio strobes.

[René Damkot]

larger = softer, and closer = larger

And also: Closer = more light fall-off ("within" the subject) ;)

Here (http://www.shootsmarter.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=38) is a comparison of umbrella sizes on shootsmarter.com (you'll need to register).

[Wilt]

And also: Closer = more light fall-off ("within" the subject) ;)

Here (http://www.shootsmarter.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=38) is a comparison of umbrella sizes on shootsmarter.com (you'll need to register).

To illustrate René's point...

If the light is 5.6 feet from the subject, by the time it reaches the backdrop which is 5.6 more feet back (11' from the light) it has diminished in intensity by -2EV. 3' back from the subject it has fallen off -1EV

If the light is 2.8 feet from the subject, by the time it reaches the backdrop which is 2.8 more feet back (5.6' from the light) it has diminished in intensity by -2EV. 1.2' back from the subject it has fallen off -1EV.

So the falloff of -1EV happens 3' back from the subject in the first example, but only 1.2' back from the subject in the second example. Faster falloff when light is closer.

[ronmuller]

Very cool guys, I never really thought about the "Depth of Light". It gets my mind going with new possibilities for doing a friends family portraits!

Back to the original question from nutsnbolts do you think either of the kits listed earlier would require anything else to start with? Living in Canada and ordering from B&H shipping is a $55 touch so I (and OP I assume) would rather just purchase what we need at one time. Shooting thru an umbrella would be a way to simulate a softbox assuming the flash has enough light output. Also would a 60inch silver umbrella be a total waste with a 580ex?

For reference here is the kit:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=403789&is=REG

[Wilt]

If your flash can fill a 24mm area (assuming FF setting), it would fill a 60" umbrella if positioned 3.5' out from the umbrella curvature. Silver tends to be a 'hot' effect surface and may not be too terrific for an ordinary portrait (vs. glamour style portrait).

I dislike shoot thru umbrellas simply because the ribs of the umbrella leave a very visible evidence of themselves in the catchlights in the eyes.