monitor for digital pics

[yeoness]

anyone recommend a goodish monitor for editing pics? got a 1DSIII and i want something with more clarity and sharpness. any ideas or recommends?

[Tapeman]

You will get some good advice about monitors on the post processing forum. I have two Samsung 22" that I am happy with.

[Mark_Cohran]

I use Apple Cinema displays. Best monitors I've ever had.

[LuxuryGlass]

Kinda need your budget constraints. I have a dell 24" widescreen I'm happy with but your equipment list suggests you might be able to get better. Who makes that wide-gamut LCD. Lacie? Can't remember. Googling 'photo editing monitor' will get you plenty of results.

[elwood58]

OP said he has 1Ds Mark III, so obviously no budget constraints! :lol:

[Rellik]

Dell makes some wide-gamut LCD. Not too sure if you need to invest in something like that. Since, I believe wide-gamut LCD are for adobeRGB. I mainly stay in sRGB, and decent monitors will be able to show most of the colors. Steer clear from the non-ultrasharp dell monitors, as they use some budget screens that don't display great blacks, and the quality take a lot of the sharpness away.

Make sure to get a widescreen. (though most of them are nowdays) It really helps with giving you more real estate to edit photos since toolbars takes a lot of room. And go as big as your budget can.

[R0ger]

The NEC LCD2180UX-WG

"XtraView+
Delivers wide viewing angles of up to 178º horizontally and vertically (up to 89º up, down, left and right) with less color shift and without any glare, reflection or distortion.
ColorComp
This electronically improves screen uniformity and compensates for differences in color/grayscale and luminance using newly designed signal processing circuitry.
X-light Pro
X-LightTM Pro uses a internal backlight sensor to maintain a consistent light output for the useful life of the display as well as correcting for short term fluctuations. This allows the display to maintain consistancy and calibration for use in medical and color critical applications.
Rapid Response
Provides for uninterrupted display of full motion video with response times as quick as 4ms. It delivers streaming video without noticeable ghosting or blurring, while achieving as many as 250 frames per second (fps). This remarkably quick motion makes displays better than ever for gaming and video applications such as presentations and streaming web video.
NaViSet
This software offers an expanded and intuitive graphical interface allowing you to more easily adjust display settings via mouse and keyboard. The administrator version utilizes the monitor's advanced control and diagnostics capabilities to provide IT professionals with remote access to monitor settings over their existing network.

For more information please click here.
OmniColor
Allows LCD-based monitors to achieve standard sRGB color and create precise color images for still images, moving pictures and, in particular, for real-time videos. It uses 6-axis color data in its calculations, thereby using the color the color reproduction limits of the original devices to their full extent. It also enables the correction of an individual color without affecting the other colors of the image. A range of colors is freely available, so the user can simply, yet precisely, control individual color reproduction.
NTAA
No Touch Auto Adjust allows the monitor's image settings to be automatically adjusted to optimal settings upon intial power on.
SpectraView II
Featuring state-of-the art calibrator and software, the Spectraview II color calibration solution helps deliver accurate, consistent and repeatable color performance. Performs hardware monitor calibration and generates ICC profiles that can be used with graphics software."

http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Product/?product=d61cea64-a46e-4095-85b6-ed62136d058e


http://videoediting.digitalmedianet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=33128-0

[yeoness]

budget consraints?? no i was ok till i bought this monster!!!

[yeoness]

i tried me brothers samsung wideescreen and didnt like it. It was no sharper than my viewsonic and pics looked stretched!

[adam*]

How much are you looking at for the lower end (but still high quality) monitors?

[sti jaguar]

NEC makes the best monitors. Samsungs/Dells are more for consumers.

I bought the NEC 24" LCD24070WNX. Got it last year for $800. A year later it is still $800. While other brands 24"s drop from $800 down to $400. There is a reason why it is still pricey- you get what you paid for.

I have a second 19" Samsung and it pales in comparison.

It is not the most expensive 24" NEC model but at the same time the best monitor I've ever owned. You will get no bleeding and the colors will be even top/bottom/left/right. Can't say that about any other monitor.

[basroil]

if you have dual-link dvi out, the new dell 30" is a beauty. 100% ntsc gamut,3k:1 contrast, but also almost 2k in price. 24in ultrasharp is good too, 1k:1 contrast and 92% gamut

[ebann]

dual 30" Apple Cinema HD Displays on a MacPro FTW! My 23" Apple HD Cinema Display is a lot more brighter than my 20" DELL FP2001. Almost twice as bright!

[blonde]

i have been using the Dell 2007WFP monitor for the past 2 years and it is fantastic. the S-IPS is amazing and it is the exact same panel that is in the apple cinema display for cheaper. i recently upgraded to the new 24" Dell 2407WFP-HC and i admit that i don't like it as much. it is still a great monitor but not as sharp as my old 20".

[bikers1]

remember to budget for a Spyder or similar, don't matter how good the monitor is if it's not set up right :)

[ebann]

Yea... the sad part of my Spyder2 kit is that it will calibrate one monitor only! In this case my Cinema Display... the Dell is for misc windows/surfing/movies.

[Epix]

Can anyone with a wide gamut ( > 75% NTSC) monitor comment about the quality vs. non wide gamut displays. I can't decide if the wide gamut 3007wfp-hc dell is worth it over another 30".

[blonde]

i don't think that it is to be honest. like i said, i moved from a 20" Dell non wide gamut to the new 24" wide gamut and i still prefer my 20" for editing.

[Epix]

i don't think that it is to be honest. like i said, i moved from a 20" Dell non wide gamut to the new 24" wide gamut and i still prefer my 20" for editing.
Have you calibrated?

[blonde]

Have you calibrated?

of course!!!

[Epix]

of course!!!Out of curiosity, what did you use to calibrate? I'm leaning toward the Dell 3007wfp-HC right now. All the 30" monitors seem to be hovering around the $1200 point with the exception of the Apple and the 3008 Dell, so I might as well get the wide gamut.

[picturecrazy]

since you have a 1DsIII then I'm guessing you aren't the consumer type and want something that is actually MADE for accurate colour. All the monitors listed so far are consumer type displays. And some of them are VERY good, but none of them are for critical colour work, including the Apple Cinema Displays and Dell (non-TN) Ultrasharps (which actually can get close, but not perfect), and the iMacs are some of the most horrible for colour accuracy due to ridiculous brightness.

If you REALLY REALLY want accurate colour then your choices are very few:

Eizo CG series, NEC 90 series calibrated with Spectraview, Lacie 3 and 5 series.

This is a HUGE huge discussion. There is a difference between profiling and actual calibrating. Most setups are just profiled, there are a limited number of monitors that can actually be properly calibrated.

First off, what type of panel are you using? If you are unaware of the different LCD types, click HERE (http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/lcd-panel-types.php) for a brief explanation. If you have a TN panel then you are NOT using a monitor that should be considered proper for any kind of colour accurate application. Basically it sucks and you cheaped out and shouldn't have. btw all 22" widescreens are currently TN panels.

Things that are REALLY important for proper calibration are:

The Lookup table. TN panels normally have a 6-bit lookup table. Most mid and upper end monitors have an 8-bit LUT. For proper calibration, you need at LEAST a 12-bit LUT. Why? Because when you adjust your colours, you are clipping data off the ends and losing the full range of colour. Think of photoshop curves.... if you use a linear curve to make a photo darker, sure it's darker but now you've lost all ability to have good shadow detail. With 12 bits, you have room on both ends to help prevent clipping this data/colour.


Brightness
Almost ALL monitors nowadays are ridiculously bright. That's because people love bright screens, and gamers love the high contrast of bright screens. Movies look better, and pictures look more vibrant. These screens are usually in the 300-500cd/m^2 range. What you need for accurate colour work is 110 cd/m^2. And guess what? Only a handful of monitors actually have adjustable brightness when plugged in through DVI. (which you should be) And just about none come from the factory at that level of brightness, so you need adjustable brightness THROUGH HARDWARE. Software brightness adjustment truncates data off the low end so you lose a lot of shadow detail.

Gamut
It would be preferrable to have a monitor that can display the AdobeRGB gamut, in the case that you want to upgrade to that gamut in your editing. Wide gamut displays are becoming more popular now, but check to see how much of the AdobeRGB gamut it can actually display. Many of the best are around the 90% - 95% area.

DDC compliance
So even if your monitor DOES have a 12 bit LUT, it is useless unless you can communicate the LUT changes to your monitor through Display Data Channel (DDC). The problem with this is... there isn't really a standard for DDC and everyone seems to implement their own version of it. So just make sure you can find software and hardware that are compatible with each other so that you can properly send calibration data to the monitor.



Colorimeters and software
Not all are created equal. There are many options out there from Huey, Spyder, eye-one, monaco etc....
Arguably, the BEST unit out there right now is the DTP94 that used to come with the Monaco Optix package. But aside from that, most of the software that comes with these colorimeters are not good enough to properly CALIBRATE your monitor. Yes, they can profile them, but true CALIBRATION is a different story. One of the best pieces of software out there that does the best it can to communicate through true DDC calls and internal LUT adustments is ColorEyes. Bear in mind that it cannot communicate through DDC on all monitors, and they focus mainly on the top end monitors. This software accepts most of the colorimeters out there, and the Huey is NOT included in this list. Keep in mind that even ColorEyes cannot communicate properly with all monitors. For example, the only software that is capable of properly communicating parameters to a NEC 90 series monitor is SPECTRAVIEW. To confuse matters more, certain colorimeters do not work well with certain monitors. Apple iMacs are known to confuse some hardware, and even the Spyder2 does not work on the 26" NEC 90 series. So be aware of the combination you are purchasing. So proper calibration is a function between your video card (make sure it's DDC compliant... most are), monitor, colorimeter, and calibration software. All the ducks need to be in a row for a proper calibration. Missing one piece will not help you.

There are many other factors, like Delta E and other mumbo jumbo, but I'm just giving you the coles notes version. It extends far beyond this.

[Rellik]

Wow Lloyd! Great info there. Most went over my head... you are a geek! :D

[muscleflex]

^^ lol!

[ebann]

I concur... you're a geek Lloyd... a helpful geek at that! Thank you so much for teaching me that maxing out the brightness is not a good thing! I will lower to the middle and re-calibrate. My eyes must be going bad...

[juy_socal]

If price is not a factor, the best brand to get is eizo or lacie or high end nec models.
But there are a lot of budget monitors that uses ips in their monitors.
NEC ux models, FXI
Samsung 215T
HP LP2065

This site will tell you which monitors that uses ips on their lcd, just put ips in the search box
http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php

[bikers1]

aw crap,

great info Lloyd,

but now I have yet another reason to feel inadequate :rolleyes::lol:

NEC Multisync 20WGX2 £390 (http://www.google.co.uk/aclk?sa=L&ai=BiofWSay0R4InhdbQBJbY-EGt-acjjYvp5wKpmYGrCLDbBggAEAEYATgBUPXAxxRgu76ug9AKyAE ByALZ3bgB2QM7eq9lTRkqm-ADEA&ggladgrp=417574569&gglcreat=659625609&q=http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000CGXKOK/interactiveda3007-21&sig=AGiWqtwWqIz54F59aKp5wzNupHZIYRxOtA) from Amazon.co.ripoffbritain

so that's another £390 off the MkIII fund then :cry: :lol:



The question that springs to mind though is, once ye hawk your soul to buy an IPS monitor and top end calibration device, where do you find someone locally to print the images to the same exacting standard.... ?

[picturecrazy]

aw crap,

great info Lloyd,

but now I have yet another reason to feel inadequate :rolleyes::lol:

NEC Multisync 20WGX2 £390 (http://www.google.co.uk/aclk?sa=L&ai=BiofWSay0R4InhdbQBJbY-EGt-acjjYvp5wKpmYGrCLDbBggAEAEYATgBUPXAxxRgu76ug9AKyAE ByALZ3bgB2QM7eq9lTRkqm-ADEA&ggladgrp=417574569&gglcreat=659625609&q=http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000CGXKOK/interactiveda3007-21&sig=AGiWqtwWqIz54F59aKp5wzNupHZIYRxOtA) from Amazon.co.ripoffbritain

so that's another £390 off the MkIII fund then :cry: :lol:



The question that springs to mind though is, once ye hawk your soul to buy an IPS monitor and top end calibration device, where do you find someone locally to print the images to the same exacting standard.... ?

what? no. you don't want that monitor if you want a colour accurate setup. That monitor is good if you play games. The brightness is a RIDICULOUS 470cd/m^2 and is likely not hardware adjustable!! If you want NEC, you need a 90 series. The 90 series 20" (not wide) is the LCD2090UXi (http://www.amazon.co.uk/NEC-MultiSync-LCD2090UXi-BK-panel-display/dp/B000FVR584/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1203027112&sr=1-1) and you NEED the SPECTRAVIEW software to calibrate it properly, so add about another $200 on top of that.

getting a good IPS panel is only step 1. don't forget the other steps

[bikers1]

go on, cheer me up some more :lol::lol::lol:

[Hogloff]

Samsung has a multiple line of monitors. Yes, the consumer version are useless for photography, but the more professional versions ( xxxT ) are very good. I have the 215TW and it calibrates very nicely to my Epson 2200 printer. Just be sure when you say "My 22" Samsung monitor sucks" that you actually have the version that is made for photography...not for viewing spreadsheets.

[picturecrazy]

The 215TW is ok, but is definitely a step below the others. It uses a the Samsung LTM210M2 S-PVA panel and is similar to the equivalent Eizo CE line, which is also a step below the above mentioned. It's LUT is 8-bit and therefore you will likely get truncated colour after profiling. It's not bad, probably hovering around the same usability as the Apple Cinema displays. But again, it's not a monitor for ultimate accuracy.

You guys have to remember what I said... many people are content with being CLOSE instead of DEAD-ON. Hobbyists will probably be fine with a quality monitor. But if you are selling your work for thousands of dollars, then the monitor is DEFINITELY NOT something to cheap out on! You can get some wicked accurate stuff for only about $1000 like the 90-series NEC 20" with spectraview that I mentioned above.

[crazyskillz07]

I am not going to lie.. this is really confusing. I'm going to just ask here instead of making a new thread. I am going to order my macbook in less than a week and I will be buying an external moniter within the next month. I have been trying to do the research but I'm losing it trying to understand all of this. lol. I want to but a moniter for less than $600 USD with calibration equiptment. If thats possible. I cannot go bigger than a 24" 1920x1200 becuase that is what the macbook allows. I need something that will get me close enough to get good results when selling images online through EM or Zenfolio. I will be dorming away at school next year so I would like to be able to watch movies on the display if possible. Is there a monitor out there that would meet these needs? Im losing my head. I hope someone can help!

[picturecrazy]

The cheapest ACCURATE system you will get is $1000+.

You can settle for CLOSE like most people if you aren't super pro. The Samsung 215TW mentioned above is a nice one. The Apple Cinema Displays get close too, but they are expensive in comparison. Other brands use the same LCD panels as the ACDs yet cost a good chunk less. I'd avoid any 22" widescreens as they are currently all 6-bit TN based panels.

Another good one is the Dell 2007WFP... *IF* you can get an S-IPS based panel. It's kind of a luck-of-the-draw thing when you order it. If the serial number ends with an "L" you have an LG.Phillips S-IPS panel. If it ends with an S you have a Samsung S-PVA based panel. I wouldn't say the S-PVA version is BAD, but for the same price you could have the S-IPS version. The price on that is good right now.

If you want excellent calibration then the best software is ColorEyes with the DTP94 puck, so budget a couple hundred for that. If you don't want to spend that kind of cash then a Spyder2 will get you by. Or even a Huey if you wanna be even cheaper. Just remember that this stuff will just PROFILE you monitor, and NOT calibrate it.

[muscleflex]

ouch! why is that that price??? more expensive than my dell 2007 :-P

aw crap,

great info Lloyd,

but now I have yet another reason to feel inadequate :rolleyes::lol:

NEC Multisync 20WGX2 £390 (http://www.google.co.uk/aclk?sa=L&ai=BiofWSay0R4InhdbQBJbY-EGt-acjjYvp5wKpmYGrCLDbBggAEAEYATgBUPXAxxRgu76ug9AKyAE ByALZ3bgB2QM7eq9lTRkqm-ADEA&ggladgrp=417574569&gglcreat=659625609&q=http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000CGXKOK/interactiveda3007-21&sig=AGiWqtwWqIz54F59aKp5wzNupHZIYRxOtA) from Amazon.co.ripoffbritain

so that's another £390 off the MkIII fund then :cry: :lol:



The question that springs to mind though is, once ye hawk your soul to buy an IPS monitor and top end calibration device, where do you find someone locally to print the images to the same exacting standard.... ?

[mzivtins]

Ag Neovo are leaders in monitors. their glass fronted monitors have the best luminance, if you want something very very good dont settle for anything that isnt glass fronted, it will not give the clarity you need. whilst people say size is good... its all about the quality of the screen.

[Az2Africa]

Like I said on the OP's other thread on this subject. If you can afford it, get the Eizo CG241W. It's about as good as you are going to get. I was using calibrated LG and ViewSonic monitors and have discovered that I was trying to correct colors that were fine straight out of my 5D ! They cost from $2,252.00 to $2,500.00 depending on the source, but you won't regret it. Why spend a forture on camera gear and not see near perfect colors.
Eizo just released their 30" mobel if you have $5,000.00 to spend.
Link http://www.eizo.com/products/graphics/cg241w/

[ben_r_]

I have the 20" Samsung 305T and LOVE it. Its a gorgeous monitor. I have owned two 30" Dells and tried an Apple 30" all calibrated IMO the 305T took them all. Thats why I stuck with this one. I have mine calibrated with a Spyder2Pro. LINK (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001098&Tpk=samsung%2b305t)

[DavidPhoto]

I've been considering the LaCie 321 but I use a PC not a Mac and their Blue Eye calibration device and software only works on the Mac. Does anyone know if the other calibration devices will properly work with the 321 hardware???

[PM01]

The cheapest ACCURATE system you will get is $1000+.

You can settle for CLOSE like most people if you aren't super pro. The Samsung 215TW mentioned above is a nice one. The Apple Cinema Displays get close too, but they are expensive in comparison. Other brands use the same LCD panels as the ACDs yet cost a good chunk less. I'd avoid any 22" widescreens as they are currently all 6-bit TN based panels.

Another good one is the Dell 2007WFP... *IF* you can get an S-IPS based panel. It's kind of a luck-of-the-draw thing when you order it. If the serial number ends with an "L" you have an LG.Phillips S-IPS panel. If it ends with an S you have a Samsung S-PVA based panel. I wouldn't say the S-PVA version is BAD, but for the same price you could have the S-IPS version. The price on that is good right now.

If you want excellent calibration then the best software is ColorEyes with the DTP94 puck, so budget a couple hundred for that. If you don't want to spend that kind of cash then a Spyder2 will get you by. Or even a Huey if you wanna be even cheaper. Just remember that this stuff will just PROFILE you monitor, and NOT calibrate it.

I have NEVER even gotten close with the Apple Cinema Display 23 that I formerly owned. Had it side by side with an out of the box NEC2690wuxi2 and it wasn't even funny. Constant reminder of how I wasted 899 on the Apple hype machine. The NEC is all performance though!

The DTP94 w/spectraview 2 software is a great combo.

Lloyd - keep up the good work. Nice writeup.

[Cyrix_2k]

Just to add to this thread... I've used a calibrated Lacie 724 and it was *amazing*. As advertised, what you see on screen is what you print. I've used a bunch of different dell panels as well as the Apple displays (up to dual 30" cinema displays) and nothing compares.

[PM01]

Lacie 724 = Samsung XL24 from what I've heard. Samsung makes the panels, Lacie resilkscreens their name.

I've had more than a few photographers/graphic artists ask me about apple displays. I always try to steer them away if they're after critical accuracy. It's simply not worth the headache with the Apple stuff. If they're just after games or movies, then the newer apple displays will do the job. But, remember, NOT for critical work, or anything that will match a high end print output.

Now for Eizo, NEC - their high end gear is always good. Lacie - unless you're after the name, I'd go for the source as to who makes them. Save LOTS of bucks that way, unless you really want to throw the extra 100 to several hundred on their name and shorter warranty. Personal preference.

[ChasP505]

Lacie 724 = Samsung XL24 from what I've heard. Samsung makes the panels, Lacie resilkscreens their name.

PM01, thanks for dredging up this 2 year old thread!

While many new models have entered the market, and there are more quality choices for hobbyists and amateurs, Lloyd's info still does indeed sum it all up. It should be read by anyone who is considereng wasting their money and time on a cheap monitor or cheap calibration device. I still have a problem with someone who will easily drop $2,000+ on an L lens or camera body, but recoils at having to spend more than $300 for a quality monitor!

Regarding LaCie... Currently, their top models are actually made by NEC, and are more expensive compared to the equivalent NEC models. I've read that NEC has the first choice of panels, sending the second choice to LaCie.

The Samsung XL__ class is discontinued and no longer supported by Samsung.

[PM01]

Chas,

I've often wondered why Samsung discontinued their XL series. Expense? Lack of demand?

And agree with you 100% on the lens/monitor thing. I've known guys that will spend money on a 1dsm3 21 mp in a heartbeat, but start stuttering at the cost of a nice Eizo or NEC. The guy didn't even blink an eye expending 7 grand, but a 1 to 2 grand monitor...he's breaking out in a sweat.

Or he's fooled by the apple hype, as I once was!

[Scooter B]

:eek:

At those prices I'm taking another look at 35mm film :lol:

Very valid points for the pro and technilogically informed I'm sure.....I finally picked up my first camera in quality past a $110, instamatic or sub $120 pocket digital camera due to being forced to take a medical disability.

Always had an interest but other priorities for funds; my final parting purchase of a Rebel EOS XS kit with a 75-200mm tele (no IS) was a big purchase for me and I thought I would be set :lol:

Hey - I least I chose Canon but alas must settle for hobbyist aspirations.

[ChasP505]

Always had an interest but other priorities for funds; my final parting purchase of a Rebel EOS XS kit with a 75-200mm tele (no IS) was a big purchase for me and I thought I would be set :lol:

So what about the 100-400mm f4.0-5.6 L IS USM in your gear list?

I'm also a physically challenged 8 to 5 working stiff, but I certainly don't own one of those puppies! But I thought this thread was about monitors? Less than $250 USD will get you a good monitor for hobbyist level use.

[MaxxuM]

The cheapest ACCURATE system you will get is $1000+.

You can settle for CLOSE like most people if you aren't super pro. The Samsung 215TW mentioned above is a nice one. The Apple Cinema Displays get close too, but they are expensive in comparison. Other brands use the same LCD panels as the ACDs yet cost a good chunk less. I'd avoid any 22" widescreens as they are currently all 6-bit TN based panels.

Another good one is the Dell 2007WFP... *IF* you can get an S-IPS based panel. It's kind of a luck-of-the-draw thing when you order it. If the serial number ends with an "L" you have an LG.Phillips S-IPS panel. If it ends with an S you have a Samsung S-PVA based panel. I wouldn't say the S-PVA version is BAD, but for the same price you could have the S-IPS version. The price on that is good right now.

If you want excellent calibration then the best software is ColorEyes with the DTP94 puck, so budget a couple hundred for that. If you don't want to spend that kind of cash then a Spyder2 will get you by. Or even a Huey if you wanna be even cheaper. Just remember that this stuff will just PROFILE you monitor, and NOT calibrate it.

Pixar complained that their special order monitors designed specifically for color accuracy were not accurate enough for them. No one here I'm sure would want to spend what they do for monitors and still not be spot on color accurate.

I'm not sure how they manage color, but I'm sure it's far beyond anything we do at PotN :)