Getting a second flash off-camera

[telles75]

I currently own a 580EX II and one 430EX. I have been learning lighting techniques mainly indoors for portrait shots using both flashes and following some of the strobist guidance.

Mainly I use the 430EX as a slave on a light stand with shoot-thru umbrella as main light and use the on-camera 580 as a fill light (1/3 of the main light). Even though I bounce the light on the opposite direction of the 430 or bouncing of the ceiling (with a bith of catchlight), I am still not getting the effect I want. After doing some reading about lighting it seems the simplest setup would be at least 2 lights off camera.

Assuming I want to stay completely wireless and want battery flashes (Bees are nice but not for my purposes) I am contemplating 2 options at this point that are on the same budget.

Option 1: Get another 430EX ($240). Use the 580EX as master turned OFF and have both 430EX on stands with umbrellas. The PRO is that I keep full ETTL control but the CON is that I am limited in range (but considering 90% of my shots are indoors this might not be a big issue).

Option 2: Get a Elinchrom EL-Skyport Set (1 transmitter-1 receiver)($245 including Paramount cable to connect receiver to 580EX). Use the 580EX as master as main light in one umbrella and fire it using the Skyport transmitter on camera. The 580 will control via infrared the 430 (as slave) on the fill ligth on second umbrella. The PRO is range if I want to shoot outdoors plus smaller transmitter on camera (less weight and bulk). The CON is I lose ETTL, I would have to shot manual.

Any suggestions?

[PacAce]

Regarding your initial problem with the 430EX as main and the 580EX as fill, do you have their groups and their ratio set up correctly, with the 430EX in Group B?

[telles75]

Regarding your initial problem with the 430EX as main and the 580EX as fill, do you have their groups and their ratio set up correctly, with the 430EX in Group B?

That is correct Leo.. I have the 580EX on Group A and the 430EX on Group B. I made lots of tests and I am pretty sure I have the ratios set up properly. I still think the Fill Light coming directly from the top of the camera does not give me the effect I am looking for; or may be I am not playing correctly with the angles. Do you think this set up done properly can give same results as both flashes off-camera and each one on its on shoot-thru umbrella?

[PacAce]

The fill light is usually used only to fill the shadow areas so that they're not too dark, especially when they're very near the camera lens axis. The lighting "effect" you want in the picture is usually achieved with the main light. Do you have an example of what you're getting and then tell us the actual look you're trying to achieve?

[telles75]

I will take some photos tonite and post them as you recommended to explain a little better what is my issue.

But of the top of my head I think the issue could be that I try to keep the camera about the same height as the subject's face. I have the main light umbrella as high as possible (on a 7.5 foot ceiling), but the on-camera flash is illuminating the subject at a lower angle. If I could get the curren on-camera flash on a stand I could put it higher and hence both light sources would be coming from about the same angle.

Most likely this is a user error and lack of experience (I am still a newbie and on the learning path) and I am positive I could get better results even with my current setting.

[shutterfiend]

Just from equipment standpoint, it sounds like ST-E2 would get the job done.

[telles75]

I would rather spend $240 for another 430X than $210 for a ST-E2. My 580EX already has master capabilities and $30 difference between a ST-E2 and a new 430EX is almost negligible (resale of a 430EX would be way easier than a ST-E2 as well).

[PacAce]

I will take some photos tonite and post them as you recommended to explain a little better what is my issue.

But of the top of my head I think the issue could be that I try to keep the camera about the same height as the subject's face. I have the main light umbrella as high as possible (on a 7.5 foot ceiling), but the on-camera flash is illuminating the subject at a lower angle. If I could get the curren on-camera flash on a stand I could put it higher and hence both light sources would be coming from about the same angle.

Most likely this is a user error and lack of experience (I am still a newbie and on the learning path) and I am positive I could get better results even with my current setting.
The on-camera flash is only used for fill so it's fine where it is. What you need to do is adjust the main light so that it give you the kind of lighting you want. Maybe your problem is that the main light is TOO high. Try bringing it down a little. It should still be above the subject but not too high, depending on the effect you're after.

You would have an easier time checking the what the main light looks like if you turned off the fill (master) light temporarily while making your adjustments.