on camera flash

[bluesmap]

i was asked to start shooting at my friend's parties, he's a promoter at various clubs. i currently dont have a flash but plan on investing in one shortly (friday). problem is i really dont have the cash to shell out for the canon flashes which run 100+ dollars. eventually i know i will but right now i need something to get me started.

i was thinking about the sunpak 383 and the vivitar 285hv. i noticed that the sunpak 383 doesnt have zoom head and the vivitar doesnt swivel and i was wondering if either of those would be very important in a club setting. the ceilings in some of the places i went to were very high so im assuming i'll be shooting with a diffuser on either camera and subjects would be few feet away basically posing for the camera.

i wont be shooting off the camera, only on the cam.
does it matter which of the two i decide to purchase?

i have a canon 30d and will be using canon 16-35L or canon 18-55 II. mostly wide shots between 16 and 30mm

please help if you can.
i read alot of threads + stickies and still cant find reason to go with either

[PipesInTune]

If you'll be shooting parties, chances are you'll be pretty close up, shooting more wide-angle shots. You don't need a lot of power for those type of shots. Try working with your built-in flash and diffusing it. (Gary Fong sells a diffuser for pop-up flashes that I bought for my nephew's Rebel since he doesn't have a bigger flash and it works well.) You can also try putting a frosted plastic cup over the flash (doesn't look great, but works very well). My point is that if your doing most of your work within a few feet of the camera, I'd try that first and save up for a nice Metz 58 AF-1.

[Curtis N]

Give me a swivel head over a zooming head any day.

[bluesmap]

the reason i wanted a flash was to help with the focusing in dim situations. without a flash the focus tends to hunt a bit (sometimes) while with a flash unit i've experienced better focusing.

(note: the flash that i have used was a rented 580ex. i've rented it a few times and it helps when its dark and im trying to focus. the emitted light from the camera + on board flash is annoying when it still cant focus)

and thank you pipesintune

[PipesInTune]

Remember that a Vivitar or Sunpak won't have a focus assist light.
Another "budget" option is to use a small video light - diffused, of course.
Keep in mind all of these suggestions are with the thoughts that your going to buy a better flash down the road. You don't want to throw your money away by getting something you'll never use after you upgrade. Consider a used 420EX!

[Curtis N]

Bluesmap,

I certainly understand the need for an AF assist light. They can be a godsend. If this is what you want, perhaps see if you can find a used 420EX on E-Bay or someplace for a reasonable cost.

[bluesmap]

sorry if i confused
by focus assist i meant the red beam (like on the 580ex) that helps the lens focus.
i was always under the assumption that a flash unit will help with focusing by emitting this red beam of light.
with the 580 i've seen improved focusing in night photos, i was assuming both the vivitar and subpak did the same thing?

[MT Stringer]

bluesmap, the Vivitar and Sunpak are throw backs to the old days. They have their own sensors on the front of the flash (auto thyristors) that measure the reflected light and adjust the flash output. You, on the other hand, have to set your camera ISO and f/stop according to the flash calculator table so they match. If you do, the picture should be properly exposed. As far as I know, there is no communication of information between the flash and camera. Only the signal to fire the flash.

Hope this helps and doesn't just confuse you more.
Mike

[steved110]

Another flash unit to consider is the old 380EX - it has no manual control, but you can tilt the flash head, and of course it takes a diffuser.

It has the red focus-assist lamp too.

You can find them used on ebay quite easily.

[steved110]

Here's a link to an Ebay auction ( UK) for a 380EX - I think this is the nsort of thing that you should be able to get pretty cheap!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CANON-SPEEDLITE-380EX-AUTOFOCUS-ZOOM-FLASH-UNIT-CASE_W0QQitemZ270210881918QQihZ017QQcategoryZ15221 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Curtis N]

sorry if i confused
by focus assist i meant the red beam (like on the 580ex) that helps the lens focus.Right.
Only (most) dedicated flash units have this feature.

Old-fashioned, non-dedicated flash units like the Sunpak 383 or Vivitar 285HV do not. The camera doesn't even recognize them, it just fires them.

[bluesmap]

ah!
ok. NOW its all making sense.
thank you all for taking the time to explain it to me.