Why there will be no 5D replacement.

[davidfig]

I don't know about you. But I was sure there was going to be a 5D replacement at PMA. I mean its time, right?

Now I think it will never happen. Think about it. What can they do to the 5D that will not punish the 1 series.

If they increase resolution to 16.7mp - hurts 1DsMIII sales
If they increase speed to 5fps - hurts 1DsMIII sales
If they increase speed to 6.5 fps - hurts 40D and 1DMIII sales
If they add 51 point AF - hurts 1DsMII and 1DMIII sales
If they improve the LCD - no one cares

Everything Nikon has done with the D300 and D3 is hot pressure on Canon. Competition is good. Nikon has done a great job of marketing. So there will be D300 and 40D comparisons. The D300 51 point AF will certainly make it look more pro. The D3 is faster then the 1DsMIII and less expensive. How many people really need 21mp? It competes with the 1DMIII. It just seems to me that Canon has its own hands tied.

[rc13k]

I disagree. That's like saying the new XSi will hurt the 40d sales. Which it might, but that doesn't stop Canon from making it.

[Brandonsfocus]

I'm not sure about that. I own a 1D MarkIII and until recently owned a 5D as well. Even if the MP were bumped up on a new 5D, I would still use my MarkIII because I shoot surfing photography and the 5D motor drive (even if it was doubled) isn't fast enough. There are a lot of serious holes left in the action from sequencing with a 5D.

With higher resolution it would be a great camera (because it's FF) for portraits and adds for people who cannot afford the higher end equipment. Though many professionals I'm sure, still do not want to compromise and will still purchase the latest and greatest (1DS MarkIII).

A couple friends shoot weddings. Their packages START at 5 grand. They use 1DS MarkIII's. I know for sure they are not printing out huge pictures. Is the camera necessary? Maybe not, but they feel it is.

[Meaty0]

I shoot surfing photography and the 5D motor drive (even if it was doubled) isn't fast enough. There are a lot of serious holes left in the action from sequencing with a 5D.


"Motor Drive"??? Now there's a word I haven't heard in a long time. Sigh! I miss my Oly OM4ti:cry:

[davidfig]

I disagree. That's like saying the new XSi will hurt the 40d sales. Which it might, but that doesn't stop Canon from making it.

Actually its not like saying that. What is important here is how cameras are positioned. The XSi is does not have the control as 40D or 5D or 1D has.

Nikon has shoot at Canon good. How does canon answer the D300. Its a camera that is akin to the 40D with 1D control's and 51 point AF. I don't see Canon doing that. The D3 is a 1D with Full Frame.

Maybe you could explain to me what Canon might do to improve the 5D that would not cannibalize the rest of the line?

If they don't increase the resolution - no diff
If they don't increase the speed - no diff
If they don't add 51 point AF - no diff
If they improve the LCD - no diff

They have to do more then one of these things. In doing that, they change the whole landscape of their camera line.

In other words, if they improve one of these it will not be enough to get people to buy it (except 51 point AF), if they improve several of these, then it cuts into the 1D series.

I still believe that there will be no 5D replacement.

[TAZorich]

David,

The 5D and the 1-series bodies are aimed at different markets. The 5D is for photographers who cannot afford (or justify the expense of?) the pro body, and/or who need something smaller and lighter and less er...sturdy(?) than Canon's pro bodies.

(And after looking at your signature, I had the following thoughts...)
I believe that a new version of the 5D which had similar performance to the Nikon D3 would in all likelihood NOT have much impact on Nikon D3 sales, as those cameras are aimed at different markets. The D300 is more in 5D territory.

The 5D is not a viable alternative to the 1DM3; the 5D is too delicate, too slow, and too high-res to be used for PJ and sports work.

The 5D MAY be a viable alternative to the 1DsM3, but there is a huge price gap between the two. Let me turn this around and ask you to answer your own question: Why does Canon sell ANY 1DsM3's, despite the presence of the mighty 5D?

Canon WILL either replace the 5D or update it; they will not be manufacturing the current 5D it in a year's time.

[jbuk1975]

so basically Canon should just stop upgrading any of their cameras as it will hurt sales of one or another body :confused:

[jlvpeng]

so we should all move to Nikon now!

[davidfig]

David,

The 5D and the 1-series bodies are aimed at different markets. The 5D is for photographers who cannot afford (or justify the expense of?) the pro body, and/or who need something smaller and lighter and less er...sturdy(?) than Canon's pro bodies.

Yes I understand this.

(And after looking at your signature, I had the following thoughts...)
I believe that a new version of the 5D which had similar performance to the Nikon D3 would in all likelihood NOT have much impact on Nikon D3 sales, as those cameras are aimed at different markets. The D300 is more in 5D territory.

What I am looking for in a new 5D is more fps, better faster AF (21 point?). If the 5D MII has 16.7mp, 21 point AF, and 5fps, then I believe 1DsMIII sales would plummet.

The 5D is not a viable alternative to the 1DM3; the 5D is too delicate, too slow, and too high-res to be used for PJ and sports work.

Agreed, but if they add sealing to the above and pump the fps to 8. It would be. Too high-res, I can cut it down to 6mp if you'd like.

The 5D MAY be a viable alternative to the 1DsM3, but there is a huge price gap between the two. Let me turn this around and ask you to answer your own question: Why does Canon sell ANY 1DsM3's, despite the presence of the mighty 5D?

Remember I'm talking about a 5DMII, if it had the features above, would you pay extra (i.e. is the only difference was 51point AF vs 21 point AF).?


Canon WILL either replace the 5D or update it; they will not be manufacturing the current 5D it in a year's time.
If your right, then the upgrade will be akin to the 30D and the MII labeling is unneeded. This is what I am trying to say, minor upgrading, means little.

[BugEyes]

If they were soo afraid of hurting 1Ds sales they would not have made the 5D in the first place.

There will be a 5D successor in time for photokina and I'm gonna buy it :)

[davidfig]

so we should all move to Nikon now!
So you believe that Nikon's market placement does not affect Canon?

What I was trying to say was Nikon's additions create pressure that Canon has to respond too. What will that be?

I believe a minor meaningless upgrade to the 5D or a real upgrade that will Canonablize from the 1D series. They are not going to Canonablize from the 1D series.

[davidfig]

If they were soo afraid of hurting 1Ds sales they would not have made the 5D in the first place.

There will be a 5D successor in time for photokina and I'm gonna buy it :)

Its what we are waiting for, I'm just skeptical.

[cosworth]

And the Fiero was killed so that it wouldn't hurt Corvette sales? Know any 'Vette owners that would be seen dead in a Fiero?

The 5D isn't being upgraded because Canon is doing something else. Thank god. I don't want version 94 of the same camera 10 years from now.

[davidfig]

The 5D isn't being upgraded because Canon is doing something else. Thank god. I don't want version 94 of the same camera 10 years from now.


Now your talk'n. More likely a 3D, don't cha think?

3D - 12MP, 6.5fps, 21 point AF, sealed. Yeah.

[Meaty0]

Now your talk'n. More likely a 3D, don't cha think?

3D - 12MP, 6.5fps, 21 point AF, sealed. Yeah.

Would they really bring out a new model and not upgrade the sensor? Let's face it...the sensor is a couple of years old now.

[cosworth]

The sensor is fine. If they brought out a 1 series with the 5d sensor then yes, something would be eating sales.

[Broncobear]

The XSI is not going to be better than the 40D. It won't have the AI servo and better AF and the ISO capability. XSI and it's big MP's is meant to lure first timers....XTI's are going to upgrade to get the better features.

there will be a 5D sucessor this year...I'm willing to bet on it.

[Meaty0]

What I am looking for in a new 5D is more fps, better faster AF (21 point?). If the 5D MII has 16.7mp, 21 point AF, and 5fps, then I believe 1DsMIII sales would plummet.

I'm not sure I totally understand your reasoning here. Why would the 1Ds MkIII sales fall? After all, it's a 45 point AF (not 21 point) and it has a 21 MP sensor (not 16.7) and it's built like a tank!

[davidfig]

I'm not sure I totally understand your reasoning here. Why would the 1Ds MkIII sales fall? After all, it's a 45 point AF (not 21 point) and it has a 21 MP sensor (not 16.7) and it's built like a tank!

You think the 45 point AF is worth $5000us more, or there abouts.

edit: 16.7 mp to 21mp worth the dough.

[Meaty0]

You think the 45 point AF is worth $5000us more, or there abouts.

edit: 16.7 mp to 21mp worth the dough.

Mmm..yep! And also the build quality and weather sealing plus extra battery power. But in reality...I think the 1Ds MkIII is overpriced anyway.

[dbyrd]

Mmm..yep! And also the build quality and weather sealing plus extra battery power. But in reality...I think the 1Ds MkIII is overpriced anyway.

All of the prices are going to come down. There will be full frame cameras in stripped down version--16 megapixel, and solid up to iso 6400 for $1000 within a year or two.
db

[S.Horton]

Why not?

Money.

[John_TX]

All of the prices are going to come down. There will be full frame cameras in stripped down version--16 megapixel, and solid up to iso 6400 for $1000 within a year or two.
db

You you think Canon will release a full-frame camera the same price as the current 40D (~$1200) within the next year?

[davidfig]

Mmm..yep! And also the build quality and weather sealing plus extra battery power. But in reality...I think the 1Ds MkIII is overpriced anyway.

Yeap! All three versions of the 1Ds have been $8K. Ouch.

[davidfig]

All of the prices are going to come down. There will be full frame cameras in stripped down version--16 megapixel, and solid up to iso 6400 for $1000 within a year or two.
db

Haven't seen that yet! 1Ds has been $8000us since introduction.

[gpx4]

With the Nikon D3 and D300 specs, do you think your 3D specs is enough to compete with Nikon for the next two years?

I'm starting to get spoiled with my $1700 12MP 8Fps 51AF weather sealed D300.

Now your talk'n. More likely a 3D, don't cha think?

3D - 12MP, 6.5fps, 21 point AF, sealed. Yeah.

[danpass]

The key difference is that regardless of the 5D improvements, the 1D series will always be weather resistant. That alone is a key deciding factor for many people.


.

[FlyingPhotog]

I don't know about you. But I was sure there was going to be a 5D replacement at PMA. I mean its time, right?

Now I think it will never happen. Think about it. What can they do to the 5D that will not punish the 1 series.

If they increase resolution to 16.7mp - hurts 1DsMIII sales
If they increase speed to 5fps - hurts 1DsMIII sales
If they increase speed to 6.5 fps - hurts 40D and 1DMIII sales
If they add 51 point AF - hurts 1DsMII and 1DMIII sales
If they improve the LCD - no one cares


Despite the brickbats being thrown by the Canon "Intelligencia," I agree with you completely.

The 5D is a marvelous camera (I love mine) but I also belive it will eventually be a victim of having been "too much of this and not enough of that." In the grand scheme of things, the 5D will eventually be to digital what the T90 (I own two) was to film. And, if you never owned a T90, sorry, but you'll probably miss the point.

[davidfig]

The 5D is a marvelous camera (I love mine) but I also belive it will eventually be a victim of having been "too much of this and not enough of that." In the grand scheme of things, the 5D will eventually be to digital what the T90 (I own two) was to film. And, if you never owned a T90, sorry, but you'll probably miss the point.

The 5D is a marvelous camera, and your analogy is good.

If 51 point AF is reserved for 1D series, then how does canon compete with D300?

Its fascinating to me that Canon conference rooms must be a mad house right now. Love to be a fly on the wall. Just don't see how they are going to answer the D300 and D3. Considering the current positioning of the Canon line.

[John_TX]

They should answer it straight up, smack Nikon right on the nose.

I mean come on, professionals who buy a 1-series camera aren't just going to abandon it because Canon releases a 5D replacement which has a couple of features close to, or on par with, the 1D series.

I would bet that most people who have $8k for a camera and are willing to pay $8k for a camera, want that top-of-the-line Canon and wouldn't think of the $2500-$3500 5D replacement as even an option.

From a marketing standpoint, which Nikon has pegged, allowing top features to quickly filter down to lower models will entice far more people to "move-up" the line when upgradings (vs current users moving down the product line for their next upgrade).

[Tom W]

I don't know about you. But I was sure there was going to be a 5D replacement at PMA. I mean its time, right?

Now I think it will never happen. Think about it. What can they do to the 5D that will not punish the 1 series.


Yeah, why should Canon punish the 1-series when Nikon will do it for free!

That's a weak argument - The loss of the same of one or two 1Ds-3 bodies would be more than compensated by the tenfold increase in the sales of 5-series bodies. Can't say the same about the D-300 or D-3 - the sale of a Nikon vs. a Canon 1-series puts no money in Canon's pocket. Nikon's arguable already punishing the sales of the 1-series by offering what is percieved to be a better value.

In other words, a significant upgrade in "bells and whistles" on the 5-series will put sales in Canon's column that would otherwise go to Nikon or another competitor.

[Tom W]

If 51 point AF is reserved for 1D series, then how does canon compete with D300?


Image quality.

[BrantG]

I don't believe it will hurt the pro line sales. If you are a pro, you are still going to use pro equipment. For us that want to get into a Full Frame body (not full figured), there is the 5D or the 1D series. THe 5D is older and has it's drawbacks. The 1Ds are out of reach price wise and still have their issues.

[dbyrd]

The bells and whistles push up the cost of consumer items. I used to have two Canon Ftbs. I think they were around $175 new. In terms of exposing film, they did almost exactly the same thing the F-1 did at three or four times the cost.

For most photographers, most of the time,a camera which makes beautiful images under simple circumstances is all one needs and finally, despite the initial attraction. all one wants. Much of the rest adds unwanted weight and fussiness.

The cost of fabricating sensors will drop according to Moore's law, and for awhile, since there has been no competition, faster than Moore's law.

Other than the sensor, in order to make pictures, there must be a black box and a lens mount.

Oddly, right now, there 's more competition in medium format than in the various smaller formats. Look for that to shake down to a couple of players. There will be medium format cameras as cheap as current top of the line Canons and Nikons.

Not many medium formats will sell at $25-35k, like current Hassys, but Mamiya or someone will sell a lot of big sensor stripped down 25-30 megapixel cameras at $6k.
db

[davidfig]

Not many medium formats will sell at $25-35k, like current Hassys, but Mamiya or someone will sell a lot of big sensor stripped down 25-30 megapixel cameras at $6k.
db

This is true, when I moved from film to Digital, I when from Bronica Med. Format to Canon 35mm. If there is a $5-6kus med. format. Pros will move to it. At least for portrait and wedding.

[Adam Trevillian]

i like to think of the 5d as more of portrait and wedding camera, because of it's full frame and high res, while still maintaining 5 fps. as for the 1d series, i think of them when it comes down to sports. i would probably never buy a 5d for sports, and i don't think i would buy a 1ds3 for just portraits and weddings - with a motor drive that fast, i'd have to be doing some sort of action photography to spend that kind of money.

with that being said, i think canon could update the 5d without ruining the 1d bodies. sure, they could add the 16.7mp, 6.5 fps, and the 21 AF, but i have no thought in my mind that says it would hurt the 1d. the 1d still has 21mp, 10 fps, and 51 AF.

i just think the cameras are aimed at different types of photography, so an update wouldn't hurt the 1d.

hope that makes sense.

[gpx4]

Oh, weather sealing also comes free on the $1,700 prosumer D300 body.

The key difference is that regardless of the 5D improvements, the 1D series will always be weather resistant. That alone is a key deciding factor for many people.


.

[Tom W]

Oh, weather sealing also comes free on the $1,700 prosumer D300 body.


And also on the $1200 40D. The big question might be how well sealed any of them are. I don't think we'll be seeing a standard "dunk test" any time soon.

[John_TX]

And also on the $1200 40D. The big question might be how well sealed any of them are. I don't think we'll be seeing a standard "dunk test" any time soon.

I'd hardly call mere dust seals on the battery & CF door weather sealing...

[Tom W]

I'd hardly call mere dust seals on the battery & CF door weather sealing...


Canon claims otherwise.

The EOS
40D has sealing material lining the CF card slot cover
and battery compartment cover to improve dust- and
water-resistance. The battery compartment covers of
both the Battery Grip BG-E2N and the Wireless File
Transmitter WFT-E3A have sealing material to improve
resistance to dust and water.

Is Nikon to be believed but not Canon?
More importantly, has either body's "sealing" been proven to be effective?

[gpx4]

Obviously you haven't touched a D300 and look at the seals on the lens mount and openings.:oops:

Canon claims otherwise.



Is Nikon to be believed but not Canon?
More importantly, has either body's "sealing" been proven to be effective?

[John_TX]

Canon claims otherwise.
Is Nikon to be believed but not Canon?

Canon is misleading...they're FOAM-type, not rubber.
Foam will keep dust out, yes, but it will NOT keep moisture out of those openings.

[Tom W]

Obviously you haven't touched a D300 and look at the seals on the lens mount and openings.:oops:


I'll bring the bucket of water, you supply the D300. :)

[gpx4]

Sorry, i won't play your game.
I own both systems, and i am a fanboy of none.:)

I'll bring the bucket of water, you supply the D300. :)

[Tom W]

Sorry, i won't play your game.


It's not a game - I'm just asking for proof of superiority. :)

More honestly, I don't spend a lot of time shooting in the rain anyway, and for what little time I do, I haven't had a problem with any non-"weather-resistent" body. I think the whole weather-sealing issue is a non-issue for most shooters (yes, there are exceptions). But hey, everyone's gotta have it because someone else has it.

[gpx4]

The more you talk, the more words you will eat when the time comes. :):):)


It's not a game - I'm just asking for proof of superiority. :)

More honestly, I don't spend a lot of time shooting in the rain anyway, and for what little time I do, I haven't had a problem with any non-"weather-resistent" body. I think the whole weather-sealing issue is a non-issue for most shooters (yes, there are exceptions). But hey, everyone's gotta have it because someone else has it.

[Tom W]

The more you talk, the more words you will eat when the time comes. :):):)

So you really are going to do the "dunk" test? :D

[Meaty0]

It's not a game - I'm just asking for proof of superiority. :)

More honestly, I don't spend a lot of time shooting in the rain anyway, and for what little time I do, I haven't had a problem with any non-"weather-resistent" body. I think the whole weather-sealing issue is a non-issue for most shooters (yes, there are exceptions). But hey, everyone's gotta have it because someone else has it.

But shooting when it's stormy and often raining is when you get the best shots. Mmmm....a photo of lightning turning someone into a human piece of toast:D preferably not me though

[Bob_A]

So you really are going to do the "dunk" test? :D

I'd like to see the video of the test posted on YouTube please. :)

[nureality]

I don't know about you. But I was sure there was going to be a 5D replacement at PMA. I mean its time, right?

Now I think it will never happen. Think about it. What can they do to the 5D that will not punish the 1 series.

If they increase resolution to 16.7mp - hurts 1DsMIII sales
If they increase speed to 5fps - hurts 1DsMIII sales
If they increase speed to 6.5 fps - hurts 40D and 1DMIII sales
If they add 51 point AF - hurts 1DsMII and 1DMIII sales
If they improve the LCD - no one cares

a couple issues with this line of reasoning.

1. Canon has habitually lead the MP race. So to think that now, that for the first time, they might be behind Nikon in the pissing contest that they will give up cuz you think it might hurt sales of their flagship is unrealistic.

Quite the opposite is more likely. They got a lot of info back in last August about where Nikon wants to be, they now get to leapfrog Nikon again. I fully expect the 5D MkII to be AT LEAST 16.7MP. A couple reasons for this.
First, they smack Nikon upside its flagship's head... that is a statement when Canon's 3rd string QB is "better" than Nikon's star, and mind you at almost half the price.

2. Canon has to make the 5D MkII be a competitive product and meaningful product for its 18month life-cycle. 16.7MP gaurantees a place for it on the shelves till 2011.

3. Canon's biggest dilemna is probably how fast to make the motor. I think the magic number is around 4.5 frames/second. Its slower than the 1Ds MkIII, but a solid upgrade to the 5D. An argument can be made that they could match the 1Ds MkIII's 5 fps or even match the 40D's 6.5 fps because the camera represents a different market segment. But right now, it seems unlikely this will happen because given the 1D/1Ds dynamic of FF vs. Speed.

To think that making the 5D MkII only 6.5 fps would even put a single dent in 1D MkIII sales is nuts. The 1D MkIII is 10 fps for a reason... if you shoot sports you would know why. The 1D MkIII is *THE* Sports camera today. Its the fastest camera on the market (well it was till the D3) . As for the 5D MkII with 6.5 fps affecting 40D sales, no such luck either - 1. Canon would RATHER sell a $3000 body than a $1300 body, and 2. another Canon sold vs a Nikon or Sony is a win in their book.

4. The 51 point AF is something I don't expect to see on a 5D MkII or 1D MkIV for that matter. 51 point AF is a Nikon thing and 45 point AF is a Canon thing. Too many Canon EOS 1 series shooters have been accustomed to this focusing system going back to the EOS 1N and 1V days (maybe even earlier) and changing a comfort feature that ain't broke is a BAD IDEA.

5. They WILL improve the LCD. But likely aren't gonna jump past the 230K pixel count till they introduce a more impressive screen on the 1D/1Ds lines FIRST. So, we're unlikely to see a 900K pixel 3.0" LCD like Nikon has till the 1D MkIV/1Ds MkIV's come out.

Everything Nikon has done with the D300 and D3 is hot pressure on Canon. Competition is good. Nikon has done a great job of marketing. So there will be D300 and 40D comparisons. The D300 51 point AF will certainly make it look more pro. The D3 is faster then the 1DsMIII and less expensive. How many people really need 21mp? It competes with the 1DMIII. It just seems to me that Canon has its own hands tied.

The 1Ds MkIII is positioning itself to grab Medium-Format Digital shooters with its 21mp count. And when the MkIV comes out in 2 years with 26-30mp's... Hassleblad and Mamiya shooters will take notice.

-Alan

[VTSHEP1]

So you really are going to do the "dunk" test? :D

I dunked my 20D, purely by accident, unfortunately no video of this, just another photographer as an eye witness. I had a boulder roll on me sending me into a deep pool below a waterfall. The 20D spent about 3 seconds completely submerged.

I pulled it out of the water, opened up everything, blew off any water i could see (a ton kept coming out from behind the buttons and two wheels) and I then turned it on, the LCD acid faded to white and it shut itself off in about a second. So I took it home, opened every port (battery case, card door, took the lens off, remote shutter/usb port...) and left it to dry out for about 3 days. After 3 days, it started right up and has worked fine. The 20D is not sealed so I dont know if i am damn lucky, or it these things are just designed well.

I spend time in some very difficult places and would appreciate the comfort of knowing i had a dust/weather sealed camera, but then again my 20D still works and it has survived me so far.

[John_TX]

I dunked my 20D, purely by accident, unfortunately no video of this, just another photographer as an eye witness. I had a boulder roll on me sending me into a deep pool below a waterfall. The 20D spent about 3 seconds completely submerged.

I pulled it out of the water, opened up everything, blew off any water i could see (a ton kept coming out from behind the buttons and two wheels) and I then turned it on, the LCD acid faded to white and it shut itself off in about a second. So I took it home, opened every port (battery case, card door, took the lens off, remote shutter/usb port...) and left it to dry out for about 3 days. After 3 days, it started right up and has worked fine. The 20D is not sealed so I dont know if i am damn lucky, or it these things are just designed well.

I spend time in some very difficult places and would appreciate the comfort of knowing i had a dust/weather sealed camera, but then again my 20D still works and it has survived me so far.

Wow, the only thing I'd recommend different would be to not turn on the camera until it had at least a couple good days to dry out. Surprisingly, most electronic items can survive a quick dunk if they're not immediately turned on (or turned on when dunked).

[dbyrd]

Alan--
You are so right

"1. Canon has habitually lead the MP race. So to think that now, that for the first time, they might be behind Nikon in the pissing contest that they will give up cuz you think it might hurt sales of their flagship is unrealistic."

Many of our colleagues think that the big players are on squeezed budgets, as many of us are. The corporations can lose millions short term to get market advantages and do all of the time. It was not by playing it safe that Canon put themselves in the lead in digital photography, and I doubt that they will play it safe down.

There will be a FF prosumer body for the price of 40D soon. It will not have a lot of bells and whistles, but everything having to do with the electronics will push up very quickly. Moore's law works for photography as well, and, in fact, because the other big players have failed, Canon has been able to go slowly. Nikon isn't going to let them do that now.

There is a limit to what a FF sensor will do, so the medium format cameras will still sell--at high prices--to the few who need to make really big images,
but soon there will be cameras pushing FF sensors to their mathematical limits and with all of the extras for less than $3k.
Don

[Meaty0]

I'll tell you why there won't be any 5D....Canon hate me, that's why. :-(

[davidfig]

It was not by playing it safe that Canon put themselves in the lead in digital photography, and I doubt that they will play it safe down.


I hope so. But still have no reason to believe that a 5DMII is coming. If it does and looks like a 30D->40D upgrade, what's the point?

[barosborough]

FWIW I spoke to a Canon rep at a seminar last night. The only info she gave us was that a replacement has been in the works for a long time. It will come out but no time frame. It will not be called 5D Mark II. It is going to be awesome.

[davidfig]

FWIW I spoke to a Canon rep at a seminar last night. The only info she gave us was that a replacement has been in the works for a long time. It will come out but no time frame. It will not be called 5D Mark II. It is going to be awesome.

Ah yes! The rumored 3D.

[nureality]

Am I the only one who believes that a model being brought out in the lineage of the EOS 3 of old should not bear that name without Eye Control?

-Alan

[AdamJL]

Am I the only one who believes that a model being brought out in the lineage of the EOS 3 of old should not bear that name without Eye Control?

-Alan

Nope. Eye control would be excellent. The system worked well on the EOS 3 and 5.

[snails]

Think about it. What can they do to the 5D that will not punish the 1 series.

If they increase resolution to 16.7mp - hurts 1DsMIII sale
1Ds Mk3 is 21.1MP. Remember that the 5D (12.8mp )was released when the 1Ds MkII (16.7mp) was in production. Obviously this non-overlap is not a concern to Canon. The 1D mkIII pixel resolution is still BELOW the aging 5D's.

If they increase speed to 5fps - hurts 1DsMIII sales The 40D's 6.5fps dosn't seem to hurt 1Ds MKIII sales, and Canon didn't seem to think this would be a problem. I don't think they'd find a problem with a next generation 5D clocked at 5fps.

If they increase speed to 6.5 fps - hurts 40D and 1DMIII sales Same argument as before, 1D MKIII sales do not impact 40D sales on burst speed alone. Next-generation 5D speeds will not directly effect sales of either model.

If they add 51 point AF - hurts 1DsMII and 1DMIII sales Since both cameras are still running 45-point AF, I doubt you'll see more than that in a 5D, considering they used a 9-point in the last camera. Expect a similar system to the 40D's.

If they improve the LCD - no one cares Not true. If LCD size and quality did not impact camera sales there would not be the push to increase the LCD size across Canon's line. We would still be using the 1.8" LCD on my S30.

By your arguments they should not have built the 5D in the first place. Considering all aspects of what a next generation 5D could be, it will probably fit right in where the first one did, and it will do so because it will offer more than the 40D and less than the 1D models, while costing more than the 40D and less thant the 1D's.

[Meaty0]

Maybe they just made the 5D so well, it was a camera years ahead of its time and too good to be replaced any time soon. Hmm..bad marketing...good design!

[Dr D]

I'd like to see the video of the test posted on YouTube please. :)
Not quite YouTube (or a D300) but this was floating around FM a few months back:
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r145/grish10/photography_028.jpg

[r1ch]

But shooting when it's stormy and often raining is when you get the best shots. Mmmm....a photo of lightning turning someone into a human piece of toast:D preferably not me though

I am thinking your tripod or monopod makes you a good candidate. :D

So how do I deground myself while taking a picture of you getting hit by lighting, trying to get a photo of someone else getting struck by lightning. Hmmm....:D

[kchau]

why cant canon do what they did to their other bodies?
digic III
live view lcd
larger buffer
faster shutter
larger lcd
improved noise reduction
little bits of weather proofing here and there.
improved battery life.

they might not have to make a new 5d with lots of spiffy new features, i think they should just be able to do what they do with lenses, have 2nd versions of them, like the 16-35 and 16-35 II, just small, but noticable improvements here, and make it the same msrp.

[Meaty0]

I am thinking your tripod or monopod makes you a good candidate. :D

So how do I deground myself while taking a picture of you getting hit by lighting, trying to get a photo of someone else getting struck by lightning. Hmmm....:D

My monopod doesn't get used in storms...not stable enough. My tripod is made from Mag/carbon fibre which I'm not sure, but I think it's poorly conductive. My umbrella definitely has a non-conductive wooden shaft.

You may still have the opportunity to catch me getting struck...I don't mind...storm photography involves risk...but you'll have a bugger of a time getting me to sign the model release.:p

EDIT: DISCLAIMER TO NEWBIES. PHOTOGRAPHY DURING AN ELECTRICAL STORM IS DANGEROUS AND I DO NOT RECOMMEND IT. DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK.