No More CDs ?

[sara505sings]

I am trying to get to the point of not offering a CD with my photography services. I worry about (and have seen) the inferior prints that people invariably end up with from local grocery store photo labs. IOW, I want full control. I want to take the pictures, post them to my website (from which they are able to order prints), and give them a proof-book for their reference. They would make their own wedding album.

I was hoping to refer my brides to Blurb (a book-building service offered through my photo-sharing website, SmugMug), as a way of circumventing my having to give them the CD with which to make their albums, but I have discovered that Blurb is only accessible by people with a SmugMug account. This means, unless I want to give them access to my account - which I do not - I have to build the book myself, and I do not want to get involved with making books.

Any suggestions out there?

[photoguy6405]

This being a photographer site and not a consumer site I'm probably in the minority on this one, but if I'm paying alot of money for a wedding shoot I want a CD. It's not just prints anymore. As things like digital photo frames become more popular I believe the ability to withhold digital copies will become less and less as customers demand it.

Maybe low-res copies for something like that, and there is always the downside of people making crappy prints from those, but I don't see an ideal solution.

[ssim]

I shoot a few dozen weddings every year and I do not offer the high res CD/DVD option. It is possible to get control of your work you are just going to learn how to say no to those that want it. Many people want a disk so that they can take it work and show their co workers or just have it as a backup. I will give them a one of lower res and smaller dimensions so that it will display properly. I have had a couple of people really want the high res files and I have given in but only for an additional significant payment. I just don't offer it as a normal product.

[PhotosGuy]

but I have discovered that Blurb is only accessible by people with a SmugMug account. Where did you see that? All they need is a Blurb account of their own & to download the software.

[sara505sings]

Where did you see that? All they need is a Blurb account of their own & to download the software.


I was hoping they could access Blurb via the web site I create for them on SmugMug, which would simplify things, but it is not an option as yet. To create their own account (or to use any of the myriad on-line album services - they will need the CD.

I think I have pretty much decided to go with what seems to be the flow - to continue giving the CD.

(With apologies for this thread appearing 2x, caused by my realization that I had begun it in the wrong forum and started over again in the correct place, but now there are two. oops)

[form]

Although I see nothing wrong with denying people a CD and controlling your work by only offering enhanced versions from your website, I think that fighting the CD trend is fighting against the current of progress.

My services always include a CD of original, unedited images, and I charge an hourly rate for enhancement (or do free enhancement of any image they order a print of).

[HammerCope]

I just dont understand selling your work on a CD. It's too easy to loose control of your work. When I'm asked about it I just say no or pull a large number out of my ass. then they buy the prints and walk away.

[stathunter]

Although I see nothing wrong with denying people a CD and controlling your work by only offering enhanced versions from your website, I think that fighting the CD trend is fighting against the current of progress.

My services always include a CD of original, unedited images, and I charge an hourly rate for enhancement (or do free enhancement of any image they order a print of).

I am in the same boat. I simply charge more and offer a CD without prints....seems like everyone wants a CD. I am one to give the customer what they want.......who cares if they print it at Walmart.....I give them recommendations and warnings but if they want to print them on their home printer I could care less. I am here for them...........well as long as they pay my fees I am.

[Dermit]

I just dont understand selling your work on a CD. It's too easy to loose control of your work. When I'm asked about it I just say no or pull a large number out of my ass. then they buy the prints and walk away.

....I don't understand how you don't lose control of your work when you give them prints. Has no one heard of a scanner? If you don't like the way someone prints from a CD you provided how much better is it going to be when they scan a wallet size print and print it out as an 8x10? It's going to be worse. My main end product is a DVD of full resolution images that I have processed in a general way and my up front price is built in to reflect it. My clients understand the value in this and are willing to pay more up front for this. Times are changing. Most images these days are not viewed matted and framed on a wall but digitally, on the internet, in digital picture frames, etc. People WANT digital files of their images. Why is it considered so wrong by so many for this service to be provided in a reasonable way?

I understand the mentality as it comes from film days. If a photographer sold the negatives to the client the photographer no longer had any control and the client had all control. It is not the same with digital. You give the client a copy of the files and guess what? You still have a copy for yourself! So what you say, what is a copy going to benefit me if they have their own? Well I've been working this way for a few years now and you know what? When the client wants a print, a nice print for mating and framing, most of them still come back to me and order prints through me. Why? Because they know I use a pro lab and will guarantee the print quality. So I get a higher price up front for my services because I offer all files on DVD AND I get print business. How cool is that?

Here's what the typical client's mentality is for a photography sesion/service... most want a print to hang on the wall. Usually one print maybe two or three depending on the purpose of the shoot. But all of them want digital files of almost everything I shot in the session. Why? Becasue they have iPods, theyhave MySpace, they have FaceBook, they have digital photo frames, etc. So if I can offer that service for a price that covers my time whether they order prints or not then why not?

Think about it. If you are worried about losing control of your work then the only way to keep 100% control is to never give them any files OR prints. In other words there is no way. So if that is the case then why not give them the best possible chance of getting the best possible quality so when your name is attached to that work you look the best you can. You do this by providing the best quality files you can to them AND coaching them on where they can get good quality prints made and where they should not go to get prints made. They appreciate it, I get good referal and repeat business, and I often times get their print business on top of it all.

I know a lot of other photographers do not like this, but it's working for me and my rate for a one hour on location family session is more than most other photographes in my area. But the client is smart enough to know the value of getting the images on disk.

My last family shoot this week took 1 hour to shoot and three hours to edit and generally process all the images, about 215 of them, and burn them to disk. My rate reflects my 4 hours of time plus some added expenses (gas, equipment maintenance, etc.) I will be getting the disk to the family this afternoon but at the shoot they already told me they want to order a 16x20 canvas print from me... yes, even though they know they will have to full resolution file and could probably find a lab to do it cheaper than what I am charging.

I find that for the most part in life/business if you treat people right they treat you right.

[HammerCope]

DERMIT
I get your point and it may just old school in me. Also the type of photography I do. I do rodeos. If I give some one a CD I lose sales on reprints advertising promo pics and so many other things. I know they can just take the $20 print and scan it but these guy think they own it if they have hi-res copy.

[Dermit]

DERMIT
I get your point and it may just old school in me. Also the type of photography I do. I do rodeos. If I give some one a CD I lose sales on reprints advertising promo pics and so many other things. I know they can just take the $20 print and scan it but these guy think they own it if they have hi-res copy.

I understand that my model does not work for every type of photography. I get your point. One has to custom tailor for each client/type of shoot. But also, I don't know the details of what you are shooting and for who. But if your are shooting for promotional material for a professioanl business like a rodeo circuit, etc. then you should have a contract that explicitly spells out the terms of your images, copyright, etc. And if they violate such conditions you would have legal grounds to make it right. Any advertising business on the planet will know about images and copyrights in respect to what they can and can not do with a photographers image.

[DD974]

I was approached by the Dad of a college baseball player I took photos of at a recent talent scout showcase. He wants to create a poster using several of the digital images that will promote him to Major Leagues teams.

Question? My first thought was to ask if he wanted Hi or Lo res and price accordingly but if he's going to make a large poster he would probably want the Hi res.....I have these on my site and an 8x10 goes for $16 through my Zenfolio portal. What would be a pricing structure to apply to my digital files...granted, I don't want to start doing this in a wide scale. In fact, this is the first time I've been approached with this.

Does anyone have any pricing suggestions so I can respond to this person?

**UPDATE**
Sent an email after this post with the following offer:
Hi Rez Original: $20 ea. or 6 for $100
Lo Rez 4x6: $10 ea. oe 11 for $100
___________________________________

Have yet to hear from the Dad!

[gooble]

So for those giving out CDs do you give the original file size or something else?

I think it makes sense to offer them some digital files but I think you can still retain some control by reducing the size of the image. For instance, no larger than 1600x1200. This gives them an image large enough to view full screen on most monitors and is plenty big enough for digital photo frames, facebook, ipods etc.

Yet if they want a large print they'll have to come to you, if they see the value, because they could still sure take that 1600x1200 and print a crappy copy of it.

If I were the client, I'd want the original files, and depending on what it was I'd probably be willing to pay for it. So maybe you could charge - just pulling the numbers out of my butt - $1000 if they want the original unedited files and only $250 if they only want some web friendly sizes. Is this crazy?

[OdiN1701]

Price in some sort of print credit - if they get it with the package, they will order prints from you. And they may order more than their credit since they are ordering anyway. Also when they see the quality of the prints, this may persuade them to order additional prints from you.

But if they still go to wally world to get them, oh well there's not much you can do about it.

I usually get about 5 4x6 prints and just give them to the couple, no charge, so they can see the quality.

[Mike30D]

I was approached by the Dad of a college baseball player I took photos of at a recent talent scout showcase. He wants to create a poster using several of the digital images that will promote him to Major Leagues teams.

Question? My first thought was to ask if he wanted Hi or Lo res and price accordingly but if he's going to make a large poster he would probably want the Hi res.....I have these on my site and an 8x10 goes for $16 through my Zenfolio portal. What would be a pricing structure to apply to my digital files...granted, I don't want to start doing this in a wide scale. In fact, this is the first time I've been approached with this.

Does anyone have any pricing suggestions so I can respond to this person?

I charge $35 per hi-res image file. That's pretty much unedited straight out of the camera. Even if they want only 15 files, that's $525 in your pocket and all you're doing is burning files to a disc. What's that like maybe 10 minutes of work? Some photographers charge more, some less... Whatever works for you.

Now, a disc full of images from something like a wedding?.....that's a different story...