Any reason not to upgrade from G7 to G9?

[Junior's G7]

Hey folks - I've been having a little bit of trouble with my G7 lately, and I suspect it's all down to the battery - it doesn't seem to hold a charge for even a day, even if I don't use it.

But instead of buying a new battery (and in case the problem is other than that), I'm considering taking the seller (Fry's Electronics) up on their "No questions asked, full replacement warranty" that I paid $70 bucks for.

This would likely mean that they would replace the G7 (which they no longer carry) with a G9 (which actually sells for less than I paid for my G7).

I LOVE the G7, have been nothing but thrilled with it. I don't plan on shooting RAW (but may in the future). Are there any features on the G7 that were dropped on the G9?

Any other reason not to upgrade?

Thanks for the input!


(Oh, I guess I'd have to change my user name... :))

[CJinAustin]

If I could upgrade to a better camera for free I would definitely do it.... I think most would agree the G9 is better.. not by much,, but for free...

[JohnJ80]

If you shoot jpg then the G7 is a better choice because of the lower density sensor. If you shoot raw you will get better results from the G9 over G7. Heck, I'd rather have a G7 sensor in the G9 than the one that is there (less noisy). The G9's jpg conversion is not as good as the G7's, IMO.

A battery costs $11 from Sterlingtek. I doubt Fry's is going to upgrade you over a battery. I'd be very surprised if the batteries and memory cards are not exempted in the fine print. But, if you could get them to go for it and you had the need mentioned above, then go for it.

J.

[Junior's G7]

Thanks fellas.

If you shoot jpg then the G7 is a better choice because of the lower density sensor. If you shoot raw you will get better results from the G9 over G7. Heck, I'd rather have a G7 sensor in the G9 than the one that is there (less noisy). The G9's jpg conversion is not as good as the G7's, IMO.
That's exactly the kind of thing I was wondering - did they have to downgrade some aspect of the camera to incorporate the new features...

A battery costs $11 from Sterlingtek. I doubt Fry's is going to upgrade you over a battery. I'd be very surprised if the batteries and memory cards are not exempted in the fine print. But, if you could get them to go for it and you had the need mentioned above, then go for it.

J.
Yeah, I doubt they would over a battery, but I'm not sure that the battery is the problem (likely, though) - they told me when I bought the warranty that it covers any problem with the camera - you run it over with your car, etc. So I figure I go in there and say it's busted, they say OK. At least that's how they sold me on the warranty in the first place...

But I might do the battery and see if that DOES fix it, and if so, keep the G7. Thanks for the info on the sensor - the G7 is already a bit noisy; if the G9 is moreso, I'll keep what I've got.

Thanks again, and if anyone else has more info, please feel free!

[JohnJ80]

They didn't "downgrade" the camera, they just couldn't resist playing in the MP wars. They jammed more pixels in the same size sensor which leads to poorer low light performance (high ISO) and a noiser sensor in general. They would hope to overcome that with better noise reduction software but, IMO, they didn't get there. However, if you shoot RAW and do the noise reduction on your computer with its much more capable processor and software, it does ok, great even.

[CJinAustin]

Thanks fellas.


That's exactly the kind of thing I was wondering - did they have to downgrade some aspect of the camera to incorporate the new features...


Yeah, I doubt they would over a battery, but I'm not sure that the battery is the problem (likely, though) - they told me when I bought the warranty that it covers any problem with the camera - you run it over with your car, etc. So I figure I go in there and say it's busted, they say OK. At least that's how they sold me on the warranty in the first place...

But I might do the battery and see if that DOES fix it, and if so, keep the G7. Thanks for the info on the sensor - the G7 is already a bit noisy; if the G9 is moreso, I'll keep what I've got.

Thanks again, and if anyone else has more info, please feel free!

They may bite and give you a new one; just depends on who you talk to... I bought this camera (G9) to shoot Raw in daylight, Hiking, street, etc... so the G9 seems better to me;; but if you shoot JPEGs, especially in low light.. I don't see any advantage with the G9 really. But to be honest;; they both suck in low light and I wouldn't count on either for that...

[KarlMarsh]

But to be honest;; they both suck in low light and I wouldn't count on either for that...

Gotta agree with you there.:lol:

[JohnJ80]

I think my G9 holds up pretty well in JPEG compared to the shots I have from my G7.

Since you have both, which do you think is better? How do they compare as the ISO goes up?

J.

[JohnJ80]

A good adjunct to CS3 is Noise Ninja. There is a plug in that invokes NN right from the filter menu. That works really well with cameras like this that have a bit more noise. NN is also better noise reduction than what the camera does (by a more than fair bit).

What I'd like to see in LR is for a NN plug in!

J.

[bobtodrick]

I too shoot regularily at iso400 and have few complaints. Neither do the publishers I've worked with who use the images (I do a lot of available light shooting in cramped recording studios where a big DSLR rig is not the first choice.)
I too tried the G9 and found it worse at 400 than the G7...I know that shooting in RAW I may be able to overcome this, but getting to spend a couple more hours in front of a monitor is not my idea of a big selling feature.
It is too bad Canon didn't stay with the 10mp sensor and add RAW...but no, like others have mentioned they had to keep the 'horsepower' war going. (this is really such an apt analogy...I was reading where a F1 engine (145cu.in) produces 800hp @19000RPM. But anything below 3500RPM and it stalls).

[CJinAustin]

I was reading where a F1 engine (145cu.in) produces 800hp @19000RPM. But anything below 3500RPM and it stalls).

An F1 car will smoke a honda civic around any track in the world without even leaving first gear,,, but if you were to race through stop and go downtown NY City the honda would probably win...

Canon has created a compact that shoots amazing pics in well lit scenes,,, but it's still the Honda on a night track full of Ferrari DSLR's...

[bobtodrick]

uhhh...that's exactly my point. At times having more (pixels/hp) doesn't mean you have a product that is suited for average use.
I'd probably upped to a G9 if they had given us all they did...BUT...kept it at 10mp.

[JohnJ80]

uhhh...that's exactly my point. At times having more (pixels/hp) doesn't mean you have a product that is suited for average use.
I'd probably upped to a G9 if they had given us all they did...BUT...kept it at 10mp.

That's right. The G9 is a neat camera, but my first choice would have been to keep the G7 sensor and add the other improvements of the G9 (LCD, RAW, etc...). If you give up the detail to noise/noise reduction you haven't gained much except advertising advantage and you still hurt at high ISO.

However, using external noise reduction (like Noise Ninja or even what is in LR) and you still do pretty well and much better than what the camera does. That doesn't add much, if any time, in front of the computer.

J.

[bobtodrick]

John...you have no idea how inept I am in front of a computer LOL!

[JohnJ80]

John...you have no idea how inept I am in front of a computer LOL!

LOL

That's why using something like LR is the answer. It completely masks the complexity of RAW from you.

I'm with you though, I'd rather be shooting and getting it right in the camera than sitting in front of a computer. I do that enough as it is.

J

[Junior's G7]

Thanks for the discussion folks! I appreciate it.

Well, an update on the warranty logistics: Turns out I was bamboozled. The warranty that was sold to me as "whatever happens, we'll replace it for three years" is not that at all. It's an extended factory warranty. Any external damage immediately disqualifies the camera from warranty. The salesman specifically told me "You run it over with your truck, just bring back the pieces and we'll give you a new camera." The warranty paperwork clearly states this is not the case.

Needless to say, I went looking for the salesman (whose name is on the sales invoice) - I had an "earnest discussion" in mind for him. Turns out he no longer works there (or they covered for him when they saw me coming... lol). I explained to the manager what my issue was, and wanted to impress upon him that I had been lied to by one of his salesmen, and he took it all in, and at least I got that off my chest - probably better that the kid wasn't there - the conversation was much calmer than it might have been.

As for the camera's trouble itself, I may be OK anyway - remember I thought it may be a battery problem? Turns out the battery holds a charge just fine, but sometimes the camera doesn't recognize it (for some reason). It just doesn't get the signal from the battery. The result is it doesn't power on. It was intermittent, then it just stopped working at all. So I took it in, and they'll keep it for a day and do in-house diagnostics to make sure it's not a problem with the battery or card (if it is, I owe them $40 diagnostic fee) - if not, they'll ship it to Canon (or some authorized factory service center) for repairs. As long as they determine the problem wasn't caused by neglect or external damage, I should be OK for a FSC repair. They say they'll give me a "comparable" loaner if they do send it out for repairs.

So I do hope I can get the G7 back like new (mechanically). I'd rather not lose the sensor fidelity.

I read on Newegg.com earlier today someone's comment about "the battery monitor" on the G9 showing full charge... Does the G9 have a battery monitor? I do wish the G7 did; I hadn't heard that the G9 did.

Thanks folks.

[JohnJ80]

Yes, I believe the G9 does have a battery monitor.

That said, Canon -- on all their cameras -- has terrible battery monitors. Some of that is due to the nature of the Li-ion batteries. Li ion batteries hold their voltage up until almost depleted, and then it falls off a cliff.

My 5D shows a full battery until after a couple more shots it all of a sudden shows 1/3 left. So, it is next to useless.

J.

[Junior's G7]

Well, another update:

I just returned from the Seller (Fry's Electronics), with a free loaner G9. They weren't able to fix the G7 in-house, so they sent it out for repair. Part of the warranty covers free loaner equipment, and I was able to get them to loan me a brand new in box G9 rather than the $200 Panasonic they tried to give me.

So I suspect that they'll fix the G7 at either the FSC or through Canon itself, and I can try out the G9 in the meanwhile.

It does have the battery monitor on the G9, but I understand the caveat that JohnJ80 mentioned.

The Grip that Richard sells is slightly different for the G7 vs. G9, but I think it works well enough to use in the meanwhile. I'll test it better to make sure it won't come off before I put it through its paces, though.

So I'm a fan of the warranty again, even though it wasn't what it was purported to be...

[WT21]

That's right. The G9 is a neat camera, but my first choice would have been to keep the G7 sensor and add the other improvements of the G9 (LCD, RAW, etc...). If you give up the detail to noise/noise reduction you haven't gained much except advertising advantage and you still hurt at high ISO.

However, using external noise reduction (like Noise Ninja or even what is in LR) and you still do pretty well and much better than what the camera does. That doesn't add much, if any time, in front of the computer.

J.


Just curious, and if you can bear with my learning curve: What do you get with the G9 that you wouldn't get with a G7 and CHDK to unlock RAW (besides 2MP diff and the LCD screen).

[JohnJ80]

Just curious, and if you can bear with my learning curve: What do you get with the G9 that you wouldn't get with a G7 and CHDK to unlock RAW (besides 2MP diff and the LCD screen).

Well, for one you don't get supported RAW from the G7 on things like LR and CS3- probably issues with other software too.

Other than that, I'd have to dig into it to figure it out and I don't have a G7.

J

[amoergosum]

I own the G7 and there's no need for me to upgrade to the G9.
Not a big difference in quality.

[Scooter49]

I think the suggestion to purchase a new battery from Sterlingtek was an excellent one. I have used their products very happily. The camera sensor comments are enough for me not to want to purchase the G9 especially if you do not shoot raw. Just my 2 cents worth.

[CJinAustin]

I think the suggestion to purchase a new battery from Sterlingtek was an excellent one. I have used their products very happily. The camera sensor comments are enough for me not to want to purchase the G9 especially if you do not shoot raw. Just my 2 cents worth.

If raw is not an issue I wouldn't bother getting a G9; I'd hold off and see what the next generation has to offer..

[Kevan_G9]

Jannie,

If you play that Uke as well as you photograph it, well then...you really are talented. Wonderful shots. San Juan Islands area?

Thanks for sharing.

[WT21]

If raw is not an issue I wouldn't bother getting a G9; I'd hold off and see what the next generation has to offer..

What are the release cycles for the Canon G series? I think the G9 came out last Oct. Will they rev again in 2008? What if they just try to go to 14MP ;)

[JohnJ80]

I think it is probably every 18-24 months for a new G series. EIther way, it will be a while.

J.

[mattjs]

I don't use RAW and couldn't find another reason worth making the upgrade. Both great cameras. The one way I might buy a G9, would be if the G10 turned out be a camera I didn't want.

I love the pocketable size of the G7. If Canon went back to the body size of the G3 or the G6...then I'd grab a G9 before they were gone. Save it for when the 7 falls apart. Of course, that new Sigma looks like a step in the right direction too.

[Junior's G7]

UPDATE: I got a call this week that my camera (the G7) was back from Canon Service, and ready to be picked up (at Fry's Electronics).

Too bad they didn't fix it.

They said that because of a small ding on the case, the warranty claim was denied due to physical damage. Fry's said that Canon gave me a quote of $189 to fix the camera, but didn't have a file number or any way to reference the case.

It would have been nice if they had contacted me WHILE CANON HAD THE CAMERA - I would have given them my card number.

So now I'm at square one with a broken camera. So much for the factory warranty, and so much for Fry's in-house warranty. The only thing it was good for was the loaner G9 while they took three months to tell me that they wouldn't repair mine.

Gonna pull out the warranty paperwork and see about a local authorized service facility.

Apart from that, does anyone know how to get a Factory Service Manual for the G7? I'd be pretty comfortable taking it apart if (and only if) I had some reference material to work from.

[Jannie]

John, I just saw this thread, if I were to go back and re-decide now that I've had the G9 for a while (I passed on my G7 a while ago) I would have stayed with the G7, I felt comfortable with it at 400 ISO even though it did not have RAW. But I like the G9 hugely but do not use it above 200 ISO even with RAW. I keep threatening to give it another chance and see just how good I can make it work at 400 ISO on the G9 but have yet to make the effort.

Right now if the G10 were to offer nothing more than the quality I now get out of the G9 at ISO 100 at ISO 400 on the G10 or whatever comes out next, I'd take the leap even if everything else was the same. But if it only goes up noise reduction wise one stop then I doubt if I'd spend the money.

[JohnJ80]

UPDATE: I got a call this week that my camera (the G7) was back from Canon Service, and ready to be picked up (at Fry's Electronics).

Too bad they didn't fix it.

They said that because of a small ding on the case, the warranty claim was denied due to physical damage. Fry's said that Canon gave me a quote of $189 to fix the camera, but didn't have a file number or any way to reference the case.

It would have been nice if they had contacted me WHILE CANON HAD THE CAMERA - I would have given them my card number.

So now I'm at square one with a broken camera. So much for the factory warranty, and so much for Fry's in-house warranty. The only thing it was good for was the loaner G9 while they took three months to tell me that they wouldn't repair mine.

Gonna pull out the warranty paperwork and see about a local authorized service facility.

Apart from that, does anyone know how to get a Factory Service Manual for the G7? I'd be pretty comfortable taking it apart if (and only if) I had some reference material to work from.

For reference, I dropped my G9 a dinged the case pretty bad. I called Canon and sent it to them directly. The (fixed flat charge) cost was $127 to replace the case and it was back in about 7 days.

Looks to me like Fry's was sending it in for you and then marking up the repair. Send it straight to Canon.

J.

[Junior's G7]

^^ Thanks, I appreciate it - I think that's what I'll do - there's only one service center that I was able to find, in Elk Grove - so I'll call Canon and get a service order going.

[JohnJ80]

^^ Thanks, I appreciate it - I think that's what I'll do - there's only one service center that I was able to find, in Elk Grove - so I'll call Canon and get a service order going.

That's where I sent mine, not that I think about it - Elk Grove. I don't think this was a case of Canon jacking with you, it was Fry's.

J.

[Junior's G7]

Mailed it off the the Factory Service Canter yesterday - I'll report back when I know more.

[Junior's G7]

OK, returned from the FSC today - $149 and it's all good, with a new case back. They didn't detail what was replaced / fixed, but it's back, and it works.

Thumbs up.