Anyone has experience with Canon 20D with Nikon D70 ?

[beauregard]

I'm in the market for a new camera.
1- The rep at the store says that the Nikon D70 will give me the equivalent of a 20D but for 1k less. Does that make sense ? Are the 2 cameras equivalent ?
2- I spend my winters in a very hot and humid climate, on that front, is one superior to the other.
Thanks in advance

[defordphoto]

Impossible. The D70 is 6.1mp and the 20D is 8.2, hence smoking the D70 resolution-wise.

Neither is weather proof.

[CyberDyneSystems]

.. the 20D is faster,, faster AF, faster frame rates...

The D70 was "comparable" to the 10D... the camera that the 20D replaces..

[timmyquest]

I find his claim that it is one grand less as odd.

1grand Can=798.79 USD

The last i checked a 20D goes for 1500 (USD) and a D70 goes for 1300 (USD) (maybe more?)

Thats clearly not $800 (1000 canadian).

That said, the 20D is a newer camera by a company that seems to be one step ahead.

When the D70 came out the debate was d70 or 10D. The d70 had many features over the 10D (kit lens being one of them). The 20D adds all the great features of the D70 and in many peoples opinion it does it better and hey look, it comes with a kit lens now (you can thank nikon for that).

Unless you cant decide if you want to use nikon or canon then the choice is easy, the canon is a clear winner as of right now.

[Belmondo]

Maybe he was considering adding a lens more substantial than the 20d kit lens. Who knows? If not, his math is way off.

[evilenglishman]

.. the 20D is faster,, faster AF, faster frame rates...

The D70 was "comparable" to the 10D... the camera that the 20D replaces..

it was (and is) comparable to the 300D

[beauregard]

I was quoted the D70 at cad1725 with a 18-70 lens and canada camera offers the 20D at cad2778 with a 17-85 lens.
So the D70 really is cad1000 less, is the 20D worth the extra cad1000 ??
Thanks to everyone replying

[CyberDyneSystems]

I don't think that pricing sounds like your shopping in the right place.

In essence maybe what the salesman really means is "I have the D70 in stock and it isn't selling very well so I can get you one now" ??

:lol:

[MarkH]

The 20D adds all the great features of the D70 and in many peoples opinion it does it better and hey look, it comes with a kit lens now (you can thank nikon for that).

I am a little confused here, are you saying that Nikon started a trend of putting D-SLRs in a kit with a lens? I could have sworn that the 300D was available in a kit with a lens before the D70 was even announced. I would have thought that getting a Nikon D70 in a kit with a lens was thanks to Nikon trying to match Canon.

[beauregard]

The D70 with a 18-70 mm lens is cad1664 at Cameracanada, so it is a difference of about 1.1k
Is the 20D worth 1.1k more ? are they in different leagues ?
What I really want from this new camera is excellent definition, how do the lenses compare ? can anyone point to a comparative analysis of the 2 camera/lenses ?

[elbirth]

I don't think that pricing sounds like your shopping in the right place.

In essence maybe what the salesman really means is "I have the D70 in stock and it isn't selling very well so I can get you one now" ??

:lol:

yeah, seriously... the D70 here in the US isn't but a few hundred bucks cheaper than the 20D... I'd definitely try looking elsewhere before you make a final decision at the place you're at.


If you can't find a better price, you can at least take a look here for a side by side comparison of the 20D and D70
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=canon_e os20d%2Cnikon_d70&show=all

[taskerc]

- and they are not comparable at all - the D70 (sorry to say) is much more of a camera than the Rebel and spec-wise is superior to the 10d in some ways and is quite close to 20d in some ways. Rebel feels like a toy
Sorry to be a dissenting voice but I am currently evaluating the Rebel vs. 10D, vs D70 and I must say that the D70 is winning at the moment although I am still waiting for the 10D in the post. The kit lens appears to be very good and much better than the Rebel kit lens. My lens investment is not that substantial so a full switch could happen. Biggest bummer (highly technical term) about the D70 is that it does not (and probably never will have) a grip or battery pack appendage. Am also not sure whether the 20Ds improved resolution (8mp) is alone worth the extra "grand" or so - that will be a personal decision driven perhaps by the end requirements (and the stability of the firmware).

My two megapxels worth :-)

[beauregard]

Max resolution for the 20D is 3504 x 2336 while the D70 is 3009 x 2000. If I want a print at 300 DPI, this means that the 20D will give me a 11.7 x 7.8 inch print and the D70 gives me a 10 x 6.7 inch, not such a big difference considering everything else almost equal.

[Malaxos1]

The 20D is by far a better camera than the D70. I work on occassion with a guy shooting weddings. He uses a D70 and I a 20D. He was very dissapointed that he diddn't hold out for a 20D. First he likes Canon's selection of lenses better. Next there is more noise at higher ISO levels and a minimum ISO of 200. Also the white balance is better on the 20D. I do a lot less work on my photos than he does. Color reproduction is better as well. I had a D60 before the 20D and felt that even that was better than the D70, so I am sure I would have thought that the D70 was not as good as the 10D...Dean

[aikidoforever]

The 20D has a maximum humidity range of 85% and a working temp range of 0 - 40F / 32 - 104C, and the Nikon D70 is unknown. I remember sending many emails to Nikon Canada requesting this info and to this date have never received a reply... and that was over a year ago. Not sure if they even know...

Not a big decision making point however, if one is to be continuously working in very humid, hot or cold weather, this might be something to consider.

My 2 cents...

:wink:

[CyberDyneSystems]

Taskerc,

I am in agreement.. (this may be unpoplular to some) that the D70 essentially outclasses the 300D in most all respects except image quality where I'm sure they each hold there own.

I have allways felt that when comparing those two the only thing that stacks in Canon's favor is the overall digital system.. including lenses.. though this is also a subject of opinion.

Body for Body the D70 is a more compelling body.

Also.. the Nikon "Kit" lens is a better optic... and costs more as it should.

No.. IMO the Canon DSLR that is more in a postion to be competitive with the D70 is the 10D.

Be wary of some of the specs though.. they don't tell the whole story. The D70 burst rates for instance are AMAZING on paper.. but compare it's frame rates with full sized RAW images Vs. the 10D and that speed advantage crumbles, making the 10D an even better argument.

But to me the biggest reason for chosing 10D, 20D or even 300D over the D70 is the Canon system.. primarily lenses, which I prefer.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Aikidoforever,

Interesting point. Someone else was just asking about weather capibilities of 20D Vs. D70.. I did not have the specs you mention...

But owning both the 20D and the 10D I have allways felt confident in the 10Ds ability to take the weather.. I have exposed it to rain on numerous occasions, and once a decent dousing of Salt water and ths the subsequent washing with distilled water.

Just knowing that Canon has experience in manufacturing weather sealed professional bodies is comforting.

[wibbly]

I was in the market for a D70. The D70 is 'enough' for me. I was completely put off the Drebel as I'd have less control than on my G3! Now, I'm waiting for a 20D, even though it will cost significantly more in the UK (with 17-85 IS lens) - about an extra £500. Why? The reported moire problems with the D70 are the killer for me. After spending ~£1K on the D70 + kit lens, I would be very dissapointed to see as much moire as *some* others do, especially as it's difficult to remove and difficult to predict when it will actually occur - and thus difficult to avoid or to know when to re-shoot. Other elements are, for me, excuses for spending the extra:

- More pixels is a benefit for me only to enable more agressive cropping - equivalent to a longer lens :-)

- Faster FPS, faster focusing. Focusing performance is my main gripe with my G3. So once I upgrade to fix that I might as well do it 'properly'

- Protect/share my (relatively small) 'investment' in a 420EX flash, and batteries for the G3. I'd want to buy a flash for the D70, putting up the price, and eroding the price difference, at the beginning.

- The 17-85 IS lens sounds a very good compromise as a 'starter lens'. It's slower than the Nikon kit lens, but the IS and by all accounts great high ISO performance of the 20D should compensate. My only nagging concern is the amount of wide angle CA being reported for this lens by some. I'm suspicious the Nikon kit lens is better in this respect.

- I can afford the 20D + 17-85 lens. It's more than I want/need and more than I wanted to spend on my hobby for a base system. But is probably the better overall value at the moment (assuming you can afford it in the first place).

The way Canon are going re 20D + 17/85 kit UK availablity, I may end up looking at a Nikon D100 replacement before I order a 20D!

W

[beauregard]

Your principal issue is the "moire" thing, what exactly are you refering to ? never heard this word before (my first language = french)
Thanks

[wibbly]

Your principal issue is the "moire" thing, what exactly are you refering to ? never heard this word before (my first language = french)
Thanks

This is Nikon's own description

http://************/3nx8g

There's plenty of opinion out there about how bad this is or is not with the D70. Just look in the forums or do a Google search on +D70 +moire

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%2Bd70+%2Bmoire

The penalty you pay for a more agressive filter in the camera that reduces moire issues, is that the images are softer, but it seems 20D images can be sharpened very effectively to bring out more detail when required.

W

[beauregard]

Ok, I got it, but if one likes very sharp images and the byproduct is a little moire, that seems acceptable. They say it's easily fixed with PS. The 20D is 66% more $ than the D70 in Canada and I'm getting more and more the impression that the only real advantage is a little more pixels. So, the question becomes: are those extra pixels worth 66% more ? guess it all depends on the budget.

[wibbly]

Well, for some the moire is NOT acceptable, and the impression *I* get is that moire is actually very difficult to get rid of, even with PS. But sharpening a 20D image is easy and very effective. You'll get as many opinions about this as the number of people you ask. My recommendation is to look at before/after samples and decide what works for you.

Of course a 20D might also generate moire in images. But the nature of the anti-aliasing filter used in the 20D means that the only complaints I read are about image softness...

Similarly, with the lens combinations I was comparing, there's a 50% price hike in the UK of a 20D vs a D70. But if you decide moire performance of the D70 isn't acceptable to you, you'll never be happy with the £1K equivalent you spent for your D70, and it will happen every time you see an image with moire. For me I'd end up looking for it :-( You would then be better saving up for a 20D as the price you have to pay today to get your 'minimum acceptable' solution.

And don't forget, the other positives of the 20D (more FPS, better focusing performance, faster CF card writing, etc) are for real. It's just a question of how much value they'll have for you for the time you'll own the body.

W

[2new]

regarding point # 2- I spend my winters in a very hot and humid climate

Have you looked at older, weather sealed digital cameras? As Jim mentioned neither of the two models you mention are weather sealed.

Depending upon your needs you may be looking at the wrong 2 cameras all together.

My opinion like most others on this board are going to be canon biased . I own a 300D, 10D, and have a 20D on order. I looked at the Nikon and liked it better than the canon 300D but not the 10D (and i already owned the 300D).

Good luck with a touch decision,
Michael

[GreenTea]

.. the 20D is faster,, faster AF, faster frame rates...

The D70 was "comparable" to the 10D... the camera that the 20D replaces..

it was (and is) comparable to the 300D

I'm sorry, but IMHO, the d70 is far more of a camera than the 300D. Its more realistic and fair to compare the d70 with the 10D.

[cc10d]

beauregard Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:41 am Post subject: About the resolution

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Max resolution for the 20D is 3504 x 2336 while the D70 is 3009 x 2000. If I want a print at 300 DPI, this means that the 20D will give me a 11.7 x 7.8 inch print and the D70 gives me a 10 x 6.7 inch, not such a big difference considering everything else almost equal.

I agree,
Resolutiion isn't the whole deal either. The large file allows more cropping for a given result, so that is the primary advantage there for me.

BUT : The lower noise at the higher ISO settings is a big deal for me. I can shoot in lower light with good results. Significantly!

The other thing I love is the precision focusing with f2.8 and faster lenses. Even with the slower lenses the focusing is fast and accurate. My number of poor shots due to focus issues is way - way down with the 20D. It is sharp and fast. It can see between the branchs instead of focusing on them it focuses on what I have the indicator on.

Very glad I bought this camera. Best high quality DSLR, for my money, there is offered right now. There may me better ones but they cost a LOT more. Some of them are not better.

[beauregard]

Message I'm getting after all these posts is that the D70 is a good camera but the 20D is a little ahead in all departments except the price.
The fastness of execution that it seems to procure is by itself worth the premium, wildlife is a common subject and I've lost so many good shots because my Sony was so slow.

[evilenglishman]

.. the 20D is faster,, faster AF, faster frame rates...

The D70 was "comparable" to the 10D... the camera that the 20D replaces..

it was (and is) comparable to the 300D

I'm sorry, but IMHO, the d70 is far more of a camera than the 300D. Its more realistic and fair to compare the d70 with the 10D.

I'm sorry too, but it was Nikon's answer to the 300D both being sub $1000 Dslr bodies