How many of you are shooting sports in RAW ?

[Paul S]

How many of you are shooting sports in RAW ?

Shooting Indoors without a flash or strobe with a high ISO 1600 & 3200 there always seems to be noise. I have tried noise reduction. :confused: Would it help if I shoot in RAW?

Thanks, Paul

[Mr B Pix]

For indoor sports in am shooting 100% RAW, I'm not using flash/strobes (yet).

For outdoor sports I had been shooting JPG unless it was getting near dusk, then I would shoot RAW. However, at the start of the indoor season I picked up Lightroom and have gotten used to the workflow. Hence, I will probably keep using RAW for everything from now on. I keep telling myself that storage is cheap.

[cstewart]

I've been shooting a ton of minor hockey this season and there is no way in the world I would get the results I am getting if I shot JPEG. I need to shoot RAW to get the most flexibility in being able to PP an image without any serious side effects. Most likley, despite the extra work and storage, I will shoot RAW for all sports, indoor or out.

Cheers!

Chris

[BaumannPhotography]

I only shoot RAW! I have much more control.

[Aaagogo]

me me me

[cosworth]

me too me too me too

http://lamiavitanellafamigliabrady.kaywa.com/files/images/2007/5/480/mob446_1178566958.jpg

[namasste]

I've shot both this season but find that if I get the CWB right , RAW adds time to workflow and uses a ton of card space without a huge benefit. I will usually just download jpegs for post but I NEVER erase a card until I am satisfied with the images in post.

I'd love to hear specific arguments from those that do shoot RAW, who knows, maybe I'll go back to that..

[aRKay]

always shot in RAW not only in sport ..like Buamann said,more control.=)

[Shooting]

100% jpeg...I don't need to buy all those cards for all those raw images. I have my camera settings just the way I like..I like the way my camera processes the images so I don't need raw for anything. I can get over 1000 images on a 4 gig card with jpeg...you can't do that with raw..plus when you are shooting, jpegs are faster.

[namasste]

always shot in RAW not only in sport ..like Buamann said,more control.=)

see, this is what everyone always says but other than non destructive editing, what additional control do you relly have? If my CWB is right on or very close, what can I do in RAW that I cannot do with a JPEG?

[cosworth]

Edit in 16 bit with no lost data, and the edits you apply to jpegs in ACR aren't the same. White balance is key. With jpeg/ACR you get a slider - RAW/ACR you get kelvin. Far more accurate for the fussy.

Zero compression is the key for me. If I'm going to spend all that dough anf time taking a shot, I want ALL the shot. I don't want the camera to throw out half the data I captured.

[namasste]

Zero compression is the key for me. If I'm going to spend all that dough anf time taking a shot, I want ALL the shot. I don't want the camera to throw out half the data I captured.

now this I do agree with as a real benefit to RAW which is why I shoot everything BUT sports in RAW. I guess I just need to carry more cards with me huh?:D

[cosworth]

I find there are shots in my sports port that I REALLY mess with in post. Helpful to have RAW there.


Now when I shot in Club Med as an event shooter, I shot jpeg. It was space, time and the rpicter software. I simply did zero post on the shots and sold them as fast as I could. A long time ago in a galaxy far away.

Now with Lightroom, I could shoot events in RAW and not worry too much. I really could have used it back then.

[littleman23408]

.RAW for the win!

[archaeoman]

For those shooting RAW, what quality JPEG are you saving as well?

[Paul S]

I find there are shots in my sports port that I REALLY mess with in post. Helpful to have RAW there.


Now when I shot in Club Med as an event shooter, I shot jpeg. It was space, time and the rpicter software. I simply did zero post on the shots and sold them as fast as I could. A long time ago in a galaxy far away.

Now with Lightroom, I could shoot events in RAW and not worry too much. I really could have used it back then.

Wow, Thanks for the responce. I just shot a tree with snow on it - through my office window in RAW . opened it in light room and pressed auto tone. Way nice. Will shooting raw help compensate for minor exposure issues ?

Thanks, Paul

[Alexajlex]

Wow, Thanks for the responce. I just shot a tree with snow on it - through my office window in RAW . opened it in light room and pressed auto tone. Way nice. Will shooting raw help compensate for minor exposure issues ?

Thanks, Paul

It wont compensate but you can make that adjustment in LR or CR.
1 stop either way as far as exposure generally and the whole K range for WB.

[primoz]

Personally I never do. Jpeg is fine for me and our clients. So except for additional time, I don't win anything with raw. To be honest, only about 5% of my stuff is shoot in raw, and even those 5% is never sport or any other editorial.

[cosworth]

rpicter software.

PRINTER software. My typing skills are weak.

[Shooting]

If you think that is good, try working with jpeg in the raw editor in CS3..now there is a treat for you.

[cosworth]

We're talking about that. jpeg/ACR = Adobe Camera Raw. Works great, but you have lost flexibility.

[SuzyView]

I always shoot RAW + medium JPEG now. So many clients want the JPEG files and I don't like the speed, but that's what I do. For really important work, RAW is the best for PP.

[AdamJT]

I shoot sporting events, and specifically a lot of gymnastics. We end up with anywhere from 5,000 to 20,000 images per weekend event. We definitely shoot jpeg, and horrors, small fine at that! Anymore quality is simply not needed to sell prints up to 11x14 to parents that can't tell the difference. By shooting in a small jpeg form, it allows us to finish shooting a meet and have it uploaded by Monday after. If we can't efficiently get images to the net for parents to view, we lose sales. This means no post-processing, and deleting any bad shots on the fly. That way when we get home, we dump to the computer and set it up to load to the net.

All that being said, for other personal or professional work I shoot RAW. The flexibility in the post-processing is critical if you have a great shot and want to tune it up.

[cosworth]

Good advice as well. Choose RAW and jpeg size/quality against your desire to use up processor cycles, possibly overnight even.

[Gatorboy]

For those shooting RAW, what quality JPEG are you saving as well?

Just RAW. I'll convert the images I need to .JPG when at the computer.

[Paul S]

Good advice as well. Choose RAW and jpeg size/quality against your desire to use up processor cycles, possibly overnight even.

Time for more flash cards :)

[SuzyView]

That's true! I have now over 20GB for each event. With the 40D taking a lot more memory than my old 20D, and the 5D with RAW, a 4gb card gives me only around 220 images. So, at a wedding, I can shoot 1000 pictures, but need at least 4 4 gb cards. But for sports, that's a 1-2 hour event, I just need to take around 400 images. But I'm not a pro for sports, just take pictures of my kids running around.

[Paul S]

That's true! I have now over 20GB for each event. With the 40D taking a lot more memory than my old 20D, and the 5D with RAW, a 4gb card gives me only around 220 images. So, at a wedding, I can shoot 1000 pictures, but need at least 4 4 gb cards. But for sports, that's a 1-2 hour event, I just need to take around 400 images. But I'm not a pro for sports, just take pictures of my kids running around.

Any body have any issues settting the camera to
S Raw?

[FeXL]

I shoot sporting events, and specifically a lot of gymnastics. We end up with anywhere from 5,000 to 20,000 images per weekend event. We definitely shoot jpeg, and horrors, small fine at that! Anymore quality is simply not needed to sell prints up to 11x14 to parents that can't tell the difference. By shooting in a small jpeg form, it allows us to finish shooting a meet and have it uploaded by Monday after. If we can't efficiently get images to the net for parents to view, we lose sales. This means no post-processing, and deleting any bad shots on the fly. That way when we get home, we dump to the computer and set it up to load to the net.

All that being said, for other personal or professional work I shoot RAW. The flexibility in the post-processing is critical if you have a great shot and want to tune it up.

Very similar setup for us. We shoot hockey, basketball, volleyball, dance and baseball. However, we use large jpg's (1D MkII). Sometimes the only image we've got of their little angel is where they're occupying 1/4 of the frame and they want an 11x14. We print on site (no uploading to websites), so the extra time for PP would be an issue. Storage would also be something to consider (we archive everything).

Absolutely everything else is shot in RAW.

[SuzyView]

Any body have any issues settting the camera to
S Raw?

Haven't tried it yet, my 40D is new. But I'll give it a try since you brought it up. I haven't been to many sports events lately. I mainly shoot soccer and it's winter here.

[robgr85]

Shooting Indoors without a flash or strobe with a high ISO 1600 & 3200 there always seems to be noise. I have tried noise reduction. Would it help if I shoot in RAW?


I have no idea if shooting sports in RAW can reduce the noise. I shoot in RAW allways (but I am no pro sport shooter, so do not need to send photos to news fast etc)...

[Familiaphoto]

RAW here as well. Allows me to correct my mistakes so much more easily. :D

[PhotosGuy]

I'd love to hear specific arguments from those that do shoot RAW, who knows, maybe I'll go back to that.. It's been argued endlessly, but I reason I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is this: A max jpg from my 20D is about 2,754 KB. The exact same shot with the jpg extracted from the 12-bit RAW "negative" is 4,315 KB which is 1.57X larger.
Whatever info is in my jpg is a lot more detailed than what comes right out of the camera. Why throw those extra bits away?
People talk about upgrading their cam to get better quality, when all they have to do sometimes is try to get everything out of it that it's capable of.

There are some examples on page 2, post #58, (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2208481&postcount=58) that illustrate easily seen information loss in a web jpeg derived from a RAW file & one shot in the camera.
You will see even more detail if you compare large 300ppi prints.

Some good links in here: action shooting..... (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=442295)

[Shooting]

I throw them away and my camera throws them away because they are not needed. I love how my camera processes the info and gives me the jpegs I want. RAW has too much redundant info for me..now that is just my own opinion. My jpegs come out just fine. I tried raw for 2 years, CS3 came along to process jepgs in the raw editor and now my images are even better.

[Shooting]

I shoot sporting events, and specifically a lot of gymnastics. We end up with anywhere from 5,000 to 20,000 images per weekend event. We definitely shoot jpeg, and horrors, small fine at that! Anymore quality is simply not needed to sell prints up to 11x14 to parents that can't tell the difference. By shooting in a small jpeg form, it allows us to finish shooting a meet and have it uploaded by Monday after. If we can't efficiently get images to the net for parents to view, we lose sales. This means no post-processing, and deleting any bad shots on the fly. That way when we get home, we dump to the computer and set it up to load to the net.

All that being said, for other personal or professional work I shoot RAW. The flexibility in the post-processing is critical if you have a great shot and want to tune it up.

I used to shoot gymnastics as well for International Gymnastics Magazine..in fact the Region 7 championships are going to be here (Chareston, WV) in May and I'm trying to get in to cover that....

I'd love to get back into it.

[FlyingPhotog]

You can get away with shooting RAW if you don't have to turn stuff around instantly. I think you'll find most pros shooting jpg since they've got tight deadlines for submitting images after an event (if not during...)

[tracknut]

Zero compression is the key for me. If I'm going to spend all that dough anf time taking a shot, I want ALL the shot. I don't want the camera to throw out half the data I captured.

Just to be clear, zero *lossy* compression is what you mean here. There seems to be a POTN rumor that floats around, equating lossy compression with non-lossy compression. Raw files are certainly compressed, they just aren't compressed with an algorithm that loses bits.

Dave

[Poaceae]

Ah, geez. I've got to start wearing my glasses. I thought the thread was called who' shooting sports in the raw and was about coverage of the nude Olympics.

[Shooting]

You can get away with shooting RAW if you don't have to turn stuff around instantly. I think you'll find most pros shooting jpg since they've got tight deadlines for submitting images after an event (if not during...)

And there is nothing wrong with their images..if they have to be published then quality is a must so again, another reason not to shoot raw in sports..

[coleygm]

I mainly shoot sports, and only shoot in RAW. Granted, I use Lightroom for post so it's not that time consuming for me.

I will only shoot Jpg if i need the buffer space for specific action sequences.

otherwise, the control i have in RAW is priceless. Feel free to disagree with me here, but even if you setup your WB for a given area of a gym and/or outdoor sport...another area of the gym you move to can be slightly different...and/or the sun has gone a little higher or lower, thus negating the WB calculation. ...although maybe I'm to picky.

[Shooting]

I tried lightroom and hated it. I want to do processing and save my jpegs..I don't want to have to go thru the export motions..I find CS3 much better (for me) in processing...but that is just my workflow.

Oh, about throwing all that raw info away? Why should I spend my time doing what the camera will do itself based on the settings I have.

[Big WIll]

As above i only shoot RAW now! Especially when storage isnt a problem! ive got GB's everywhere!

[mhall]

I've been shooting indoor sports (gymnastics and volleyball) about 15 - 30,000 images per event for six years. We shoot RAW+JPG.

JPG for viewing and ordering, RAW for processing and final ouput. I simply prefer the workflow we've setup. The aspect that draws parents to our booth is the final quality of the work and a speedy RAW workflow is an important part of that for us. Enough that I'm willing to spend the money to constantly buy harddrives to keep up with the unending storage demands. We typically don't use the same drive for more than a few events before it's moved into an archival storage role. We just consider it a cost of doing business. I think we might be at around 10TB of disk storage in office now and it'll increase by about five more TB this year (we've just added a second 1DmkIII and the files from that are gorgeous but large, coming in at about 17MB per image for high ISO RAW + small JPG).

I shot JPG my first two years in business and wanted to improve my finished product and workflow. RAW was the way to go for us.

[coleygm]

wow...interesting. If I may ask, what level of sporting events are you shooting? ie HS, College, etc...?

[mnealtx]

Given the mention of parents, I'm guessing HS level.

[bildeb0rg]

You can get away with shooting RAW if you don't have to turn stuff around instantly. I think you'll find most pros shooting jpg since they've got tight deadlines for submitting images after an event (if not during...)

The time it takes to import an image into DPP, crop, adjust exposure and white balance, sharpen then convert and save, is a LOT less than trying to decide which pic to send to a publisher.:confused:

[coleygm]

The time it takes to import an image into DPP, crop, adjust exposure and white balance, sharpen then convert and save, is a LOT less than trying to decide which pic to send to a publisher.:confused:

definitly agree if you've got a tight deadline, but JPG is about quantity not necessarily quality. When i shoot on a same night deadline and/or have to transmit during an event, then JPG definatly....otherwise, it's always RAW. ...but if you have an efficient workflow (I use Lightroom), then you can even turn around a nights work of 1000 photo's in a couple hours.

[mhall]

wow...interesting. If I may ask, what level of sporting events are you shooting? ie HS, College, etc...?

HS level volleyball mainly - it's actually club volleyball, which is Junior/High School age but outside of school. We photograph volleyball all over the country and into Europe about once a year.

We do work with some local high schools and colleges and are pushing to expand that number (the seasons don't conflict so working with colleges would give us something more to do in our slower Summer and Fall seasons).

Regards,
Micheal

[bildeb0rg]

definitly agree if you've got a tight deadline, but JPG is about quantity not necessarily quality. When i shoot on a same night deadline and/or have to transmit during an event, then JPG definatly....otherwise, it's always RAW. ...but if you have an efficient workflow (I use Lightroom), then you can even turn around a nights work of 1000 photo's in a couple hours.

Totally agree that if you're shooting an event, and want on site sales, then I can see the beauty of jpegs.
As I'm only looking for four (max) to submit, then it's RAW all the way. I'm getting faster (not necessarily better) and can now chew through around 200 RAW files an hour.
Hiting "delete" still counts as pping, right???

[Tandem]

I crop and rotate my sports photos in Lightroom so there is no advantage for me to use jpeg. Sure, It takes longer to download my cards but that time is spent setting up the online gallery or reading and responding to e-mails - things that I would have to take time for anyway. My actual hands-on processing time is the same for either RAW or jpeg.

The advantage of RAW is when I want to bring a face up out of a shadow or tone down a slightly blown out white jersey. I hear that Lightroom 2 is going to have a burn and dodge tool so that will be even more reason to shoot RAW.

[oaktree]

I still shoot in jpeg since I have still much to learn. I started digital photography whole heartedly only 13 months ago. Right now I am learning to calibrate my monitor and printer, and trying to stop being so "cute" with Lightroom so I don't get over sharpened, over contrasty, over saturated, posterized prints. :(

After that, I'll confront RAW. I need to do this before NBA basketball starts up again Nov 2008. My team is not going make the playoffs this year. :( :(

[namasste]

Hiting "delete" still counts as pping, right???

can I use that in my sig? One of the more classic comments I've heard here and oh so true imo. Some of my best pp work was done exactly that way!:lol::lol: