B+W Kasemann Circular Polarizer v. CS3

[Mississippi]

I offered to buy my son a 67mm B+W Kasemann Circular Polarizer. He told me he had CS3 and did not need it. He seems to take the opinion that he can just take a picture and manipulate it anyway he wants in CS3. I tell him he needs to get the picture right the first time. He' s not listening. I only used a Miranda Sensorex when I was younger. He knows the digital stuff better than I do. Is he right or am I. Will CS3 allow him to do all he needs to do?

[cosworth]

CS3 cannot duplicate a polarizer. Buy him the filter and he'll see.

[TheHoff]

He does not know all the uses of a polarizer if he only thinks it is for darkening the sky. For most other filters, though, I'd agree with him.

[Jon]

You're right. A polarizer is about the only filter (well, there's infrared) whose effect can't be duplicated in PhotoShop, since it cuts reflections (which is why it can make colours look more saturated). He can try to emulate it, but it'll take a good deal of computer time to get what he could in a matter of seconds with the polarizer.

Which Sensorex? I started with an Auto Sensorex EE (and the meter was always broken!). Not my choice; Ex-wife's father wanted the removable pentaprism for astrophotography and Consumer Reports liked that.

[sapearl]

That's sad in a way.... but good that he's at least experimenting and perhaps pushing the limits of what he can do with CS3.

But you are correct.... and he's wrong.

Sure, you can "cook up" anything you want in CS3. But unless a person is really, really, really good a PS manipulation/creation always looks like that, a bit fake, and not quite the real thing. I sympathize with your position. We see similar subjects and queries here a lot. The fact is, NOTHING replaces a good solid understanding of the basic concepts of photography, compostion, light and exposure. Sure, you can come up with the " equivalent solutions" in PS, but those are usually second best.

Other than that, how is his photography? Does he enjoy what he does? He can certainly mimic the CPL in CS3, but it will take a lot of work. I do most of my urban landscape work with a CS3. Here are some examples:

http://www.pbase.com/sapearl/cleveland_flats

Show him those. My CS3 manipulation was pretty much dodge, burn, esposure control and a little saturation.... nothing really extreme or heavy because it was not really needed beyond the initial capture. Good luck, and let us know how the "discussions" continue. Suggest that he join POTN - we'd be very happy to talk things over with him :D. - Stu

[Mississippi]

Jon, not to put you off, but I cant remember other than a Miranda Sensorex. I shot a lot of film through it. It was one of the first. I will have to go dig it out and look. I have it in a banana box with all the other 35 mm SLR that I have bought at yardsales.

[sapearl]

Then I believe there was also the Sensomat.... the little brother of the Sensorex, with NON removable prism? I ended up getting the Canon FT QL though; that was back in 1971 ;)

[Mississippi]

Sapearl said, "Other than that, how is his photography? Does he enjoy what he does?" That's what I am trying to figure out. He takes a lot of pictures for his high school, yearbook, athletic teams, etc, even getting a letter jacket for his work with the football and basketball team. He has taken thousands of pictures. I could only dream of that when I was his age. It was one slow miserable roll of 36 exposure roll at a time and then work to get the developing money. He seems to want to pick up his knowledge on the fly. He does not seem interested in the theory. My wife got me about the same camera as he has, Rebel and Rebel XTi I believe it is. I sit and study the manual but he doesnt work at learning it. He does not seem to have the attitude of how do I make the next shot better. His whole reliance seems to be on CS3. Are a lot of younger kids this way today? He says he wants to be a sports photographer and have a rig like you have there Cosworth. Looks like he may get a partial scholarship to a junior college because of his photography. They need some help. Maybe I just want him to be as interested in it as I was at his age and couldnt do anything about it. Maybe I just need to go slow.

[Jon]

Yes, unfortunately, a lot of people "spray and pray", then spend hours in PhotoShop trying to recover from their mistakes. If he wants to be a sports photographer, he'll have to learn to get it right in the camera since the working press has very tight deadlines.

[cosworth]

To be a sports shooter, he's going to have to give up the digital side of things and learn the ways of the force. In camera.

Get him in his local photo club. They'll probably be 30 years his senior on average but he'll learn a lot from it.

He also needs to see this thread.

I use a polarizer all the time shooting sports. Since everyone is so focused on high iSO the manufacturers have only dealt ISO 50 to me. So to shoot wide open (or nearly) and get motion blur, I have to use a polarizer to reduce the light and the reflected light to get shots I want.

If he only sees a polarizer as a sky darkener, he has a long way to go before he's a sports shooter. Nurture him, guide him and don't let him follow stale paths.

[Mississippi]

I really appreciate all these comments. They have helped me a lot. I hope I can help him.

[sapearl]

I think that's wonderful that he's thrown himself into it like he has. Enthusiasm, energy, focus and drive is something to admire and be proud of in a son or daughter (I have 2 of the latter :D).

I like books and theory too, but I tend to jump into something and see how far I get before I hit a wall or something stumps me. In that regard he and I may be similar. At that point though I will either look into the theory, google it, read a book, or post a question on POTN. He sounds like a typical normal young adult, trying to invinicibly do as much on his own as he can without assistance. That's actually quite good and I'm sure you are proud of him. I know I would be.

He may be running through the initial "exploration and experimentation" phase. His work is probably pretty good too. But there will likely come a point when he either self critiques, sees something lacking, or runs into somebody who makes a comment about his work, positive and/or negative. This could provide a stimulus to digging a little deeper.:D

There's a similar thread that may interest you - not suggesting the individuals are the same - but it touches upon learning, envisioning and developing the "eye":

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=457735

That thread has had some pretty lively conversation.

[Wilt]

Buy him the filter. Show the kid the old man knows what he's talking about!

Take him out to a lake or pond and take two shots, one without the filter and a second one with the filter removing the reflections off the water. Challenge him to use PS to remove the reflections off the surface to see some of the underwater detail.

Take him out to a large grassy area and take two shots, one without the filter and a second one with the filter to increase the color saturation of the grass by removal of the reflections off the surfaces of the blades. Challenge him to use PS to increase the saturation of the green in the grass.

Take him to a large glass storefront with bright reflections obsuring the display items inside the store. And take two shots, one without the filter and a second one with the filter to remove the reflections. Challenge him to use PS so that he can show the in goods in the display.

[sapearl]

I couldn't echo Jason more strongly - he offers some great advice and a lot of keen insight. He also comes to the point and often presents things better than I do.

And have him join POTN. Oh, sorry - I may be repeating myself :lol:.

To be a sports shooter, he's going to have to give up the digital side of things and learn the ways of the force. In camera.

Get him in his local photo club. They'll probably be 30 years his senior on average but he'll learn a lot from it.

He also needs to see this thread. ........ Nurture him, guide him and don't let him follow stale paths.

[ben_r_]

Get him the filter, but get him a 77mm one and an adapter ring so he has some room to grow as he acquires more lenses. Check out hvstar.com for the best price.

[Mississippi]

sapearl, ben and wilt those are all some great comments and suggestions. I like that idea wilt of challenging him to take the shots and then do the work and see how it goes. I really appreciate it. Thanks again.

[JohnJ80]

I offered to buy my son a 67mm B+W Kasemann Circular Polarizer. He told me he had CS3 and did not need it. He seems to take the opinion that he can just take a picture and manipulate it anyway he wants in CS3. I tell him he needs to get the picture right the first time. He' s not listening. I only used a Miranda Sensorex when I was younger. He knows the digital stuff better than I do. Is he right or am I. Will CS3 allow him to do all he needs to do?

Then your son does not understand what a polarizer does. It is the one filter that CS3 cannot duplicate since CS3 cannot filter polarized light.

J.