What charge for pics for web site - car hire?

[Yella Fella]

Hi guys,

I have been approached by an old work colleague of mine, basically he is designing a flash based web site for someone else who will be hiring out sports cars e.g. ferrari, aston martins etc for weddings and other such events...

Anyways, they are requesting for a numerous of full hi-res shots approx 15 per car, and they have around 6 for the time being, possibly 10 cars, with different back drops from country side views to outside of a church etc. Not to mention detail shots.

However, im not sure what to charge for this, as it doesnt seem to be a one off... so would I be right to charge per hour or per car? What is the best way to do this?

[jbrown1]

Those aren't cheap cars, so I would be surprised if they are expecting cheap photos for their marketing.

Who will be paying you, the web designer or the car owner? If it's the car owner, negotiation is probably the best way forward. I would kick things off with trying to charge the equivalent of 1 days hire of the car per shoot (so if say for example they charge £600 per day, charge them £600 for shooting that car). If it is them thats going to be paying you, I'd be inclined to take a few shots of a top marque and present them during negotiations, and say 'hey, look what I can do, this is how good I am' etc.

If on the other hand it's the old work colleague, I would ask him what he thinks is reasonable. I would also ask if he has quoted his client, and if his quote includes the cost of product shots. Just speak to guy see if you can both come to a mutual agreement.

Sounds like a fun gig, have a great time shooting it.

[Yella Fella]

From what i have gathered, my old work colleague is creating the web site for said client who i think is also a fellow mate of his... the client is basically setting up a web site that will be hiring out luxury sports cars for weddings etc... instead of the usual limo... and i'd expect the client to be paying me

[jbrown1]

All well and good, but watch out for 'mates rates'. I'm sure car hire guy wont be charging the brides parents 'mates rates' on the day. Why shouldn't you get paid a decent rate for your hard work and talent?

If it were me, I'd speak to the client and give him the sales pitch on how professional the site would look with professional product shots. Which would lead to more bookings for him etc etc..

[Yella Fella]

For the moment, im talking to the web designer at the mo, just thinking whats the best way to charge normally with regards to this, as is it better per hour, per car, or even a one off fee for the day?

[LBaldwin]

Hey Ed,

Well there are several ways to do this. But it is a still a basic commercial usage issue.
First off I would make sure that you maintain the copyright and use the creative fee vs usage model + expenses. These are very expensive cars so I would first get insurance to CYA should a light stand get dropped on a painted surface!!

The Creative fee model allows for you to get a reasonable wage along with fees for usage on a recurring basis. If you do an allrights shoot you will of course lose money. But I think that the rules for usage and rights in commercial work are different in the UK then here in the Colonies.

Also make sure that you get paid for the computer time as well.
IF you have not done a CODB, do that first to see wha your costs are and get them covered prior to setting a fee.

[sando]

I'd go for a deal looking at a time basis (daily fee+computer work) and then look at a recurring use fee.

[Gary_Evans]

Speaking not as a photographer, but as an ex-owner of this kind of car (I had a Ferrari 348 8) )some things you need to bear in mind that the ground clearance isnt the best so think carefully about what kind of ground you want to drive them on and the paintwork is of such a high standard that you will pick reflections of everything that is around, so you may have a fair bit of PPing afterwards

Back to the photos: Different cars have different perceptions - the 348 is seem more as a young city businessman's car whereas an Aston is more of an English gentlemans car. Obviously this is a very broad thing but you know what I mean.

As well as static shots, try and get them on the move. If you know anyone with a people carrier/range rover etc, but anthing you can open the rear so as to shoot them on the move. The best shots I had of the 348 were taken inside the Hatfield Tunnel (not far from you) at about 3.30 am when it was deserted and so we were able to get the reflections of the tunnels lights streaming accross the paintwork.

In addition to the cars, shoot the wheels, badges, instruments etc. Many people dream of driving these cars and even just sitting in them can be an experience, so sell the sizzle not the sausage.

I would suggest starting at £1200, as it is only a couple of days rental for some of these cars.

[ssim]

These types of jobs I calculate at day rate and/or hourly charges. Sounds like you could be on the move to accomplish everything that they want so I would also give them a line item in the quote for additional costs such as car, meals, etc. I have a set rate per km and I charge out other incidentals at the exact cost plus 15% and I supply them reciepts. Sometimes you have to give on some of these items when you are working with someone that doesn't have a huge budget but given the cost of some of the cars you mention then small budgetary items shouldn't be too inhibiting for them.

I developed this pricing method when working with one of the ad agencies that I do alot with. They had no issues with it but I have had corporate customers who did. In that case I just came up with a job rate that built everything into it.

I really do not like working for friends. They expect a big break on the pricing and I tell them up front that I will give them a discount but business is business and I don't appreciate anyone using a friendship to strong arm a better deal. I had more of an acquaintance than a friend come to me with the same sort of project (not cars but he was the web developer for someone else). I gave him a small discount after much discussion on how he really needed the break in order to get the job. I thought he was being sincere and sounded almost desperate. Some months later I was contacted by the end customer to do some different work and found out that he took what I charged him and added alot to it and passed it off to this person as the cost of photography that he could not do anything about. Live and learn.

[PhotosGuy]

I'd think about a day rate + a per car charge for the rights conveyed. That allows some flexibility in pricing if they only use them for the web & later need them for a brochure, etc.
See the "Sticky"s for some "charge" threads.

Some ideas on lighting: A few Car Lighting Tips - Updated (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=70290)

[Yella Fella]

thanks for the info guys, I will work something out and see if I get the job :D

[Yella Fella]

alright guys, bit of an update... the expenses will be paid for by the client i.e. the web master, as in he will be picking me up to go to said venue and dropping me off.

There will be approx 3 cars and it will be taken early noon/late morning. He is wanting roughly 4-5 pics of each car for the web site.

Im thinking roughly 150-200quid per car for the job, but not sure if thats reasonable or even under selling myself?

[PhotosGuy]

will be taken early noon/late morning. The worst time of day IMO!

[Yella Fella]

this is England, there is lack of light already :P

[NZDoug]

http://www.blinkbid.com try their free 10 day trial.;)
Establish that you own the rights by making them agree to a contract.
Shoot fee then usage fee. Web only repro rights for one year- renews at 50% per year- then they will want prints for walls, then the brochure. Extend your licence.
Dont screw yourself from the start.
Professional people can deal with professional quotes. :p