Sports Shooting focusing

[ItzBitzHair]

I have noticed when I shoot using settings that are posted here and using certain focuses that because i cannot see my focus points used when shoothing I sometimes get the wrong subjects. Now I know that I am still new to shooting but I wanted to ask you guys how do you avoid this issues. How do you know what will be in focus with out that. I mean im sports you don't get a second chance to get a certain shot. Any advise will be appreciated.

Thnx

[Red Dog]

Obviously depends on your camera, but from experience with the 40D and 20D using the centrepoint for focusing, its always visable when you depress the shutter button halfway. It lights up immediately when the lens has focused on the subject.
The number of focus points required will depend on the sport you're shooting and whether you want to isolate one subject from a group.

[ItzBitzHair]

it does not work in certain settings i need to find out which settings.. I am learning so much so fast i cant rem.. i will go back to the book and figure out which but it did not go off. What do you do in those situations. Has anybody had that. Also how did you deal with it.

[Aaagogo]

assuming that you are using the * button to track, each time u press the * button, the selected focus point lights up, if you hold down the * button, the light does off after a while.

a couple of times when there's no light on the focus point when you hit the * button.

The lens in in MF mode.... (got that happen to me once and i was worried sick that my new 24-70 stopped working even after changing 3 bodies, then realized it was on MF)\

Next is if you have not pre-selected one of the 9 points. it, when you hit the select focus button, everything lights up.

hope this helps

[nicmo]

ItzBitzHair, do you have a couple example pics you can post with the EXIF data? This would go a long way in helping with comments on what settings may help you.

[ItzBitzHair]

ok I will work on presetting it for next time.. I am shooting a rec ball game on tuesday for prac.

[ItzBitzHair]

I do and I will try and post in a bit.. my main computer crashed and i am totally lost because of this. sorry about that ok.

I will get it done.


ItzBitzHair, do you have a couple example pics you can post with the EXIF data? This would go a long way in helping with comments on what settings may help you.

[DragonSpeed]

assuming that you are using the * button to track, each time u press the * button, the selected focus point lights up, if you hold down the * button, the light does off after a while.


I think this is probably it. If you are in Servo mode, the light goes off after tracking for a while. (At least on MY 40D)

[bobbyz]

Just stick with center point.

[ItzBitzHair]

this is what i get sometimes.. got this one today.. i used spot focus... still go this

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2097/2327560689_0181508f92.jpg?v=0

[oaktree]

Practice,practice, practice!

If you use the center focus point, you can easily focus on the background while concentrating on the "composition" of the shot. In your shot above, the center focal point would focus on the back wall. When I shot basketball, I get a lot of perfectly focused fans in the stands when the camera/lens miss the action. It takes a lot of concentration to kept the focus point on the players.

The hardest part is when the player rises for a shot. If you have faithfully followed the player focusing on their body, when he/she rises for a shot and you pan the camera up to shoot, you can easily focus pass the player and focus on the background. SInce I use the "*" button to activate focus, I try to release the "*" button when the player rises for the shot hoping that the focus point will remain with the player and not refocus on the background.

It take a lot of concentration, coordination, and practice, practice, practice.

[tdodd]

this is what i get sometimes.. got this one today.. i used spot focus... still go this

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2097/2327560689_0181508f92.jpg?v=0
I don't shoot team sports such as basketball, so take these comments with a pinch of salt, but here are some thoughts....

If you locate the exact centre of the photo you will see that it just misses the left arm of the shooter and is, in fact, on the back wall, where there is strong contrast between the blue boards and the "white?" wall. (see first attachment) My guess is that the focus got drawn there because your centre focus point came off the player. If you look at the people sitting at the rear of the photo you can see how sharp they look - your focus is on the background.

Regarding focus settings and technique, my opinion is that you should have been using AI Servo mode, centre point focus only, and very importantly you should keep focus operation independent from the shutter button. If you had been using "*" or AF-On to control your focus you could have released the focus button as soon as your subject began to leave the centre of the frame. If you had focus linked to the shutter button there was no way you could prevent the camera focusing on the background once your subject moved out of the centre. An alternative approach would be to shoot with a slightly wider angle so that you could always keep your subject in the centre and then crop to get the composition you wanted afterwards. As it is, you've compromised your focusing in order to get the composition you want. In this situation I believe accurate focus must take priority over composition. A well composed but out of focus picture is of no use. A sharp photo with some compositional imperfection is the better option, IMHO.

It also looks to me as if your shutter speed is too slow and everyone in motion is blurry, while anyone and anything that is stationery is not. Although your subject is not sharp, it is also not extremely out of focus, so I think your aperture was not wide enough to give better subject isolation and also to permit a faster shutter speed. You may have had your lens wide open already, but if not I think you should have (probably) used the widest aperture you have available. I think most indoor sports shooters would recommend at least f/2.8 glass or faster - preferably f/2.0 or f/1.8.

Here's an example I found with a quick Google image search, which is of indoor basketball and has Exif data present. This was shot at 70mm, 1/500 and f/3.2. I can't see what the ISO setting was but I would think it was very high - probably 1600 - http://www.mpssaa.org/wintersports/boysbasketball/. There's another here - http://www.thepost.ohiou.edu/Articles/Sports/2008/03/05/23254/ - this time shot with a 20D at 73mm, 1/500, f/2.8, 1600 ISO.

If your aperture was already maxed out then you needed to increase your ISO to allow a faster shutter speed and help reduce motion blur in your subject. Your image is actually underexposed (and the white balance is off) so you actually needed more light anyway, so that definitely demands a wider aperture and/or higher ISO to offset the faster shutter speed you should have used.

I've attached a screen print from Lightroom, showing before/after versions of your photo with some adjustments to brightness and WB. The aim was to make the "white" shirts look white rather than sort of dingy. Even with that adjustment, the black shorts are completely black - not a hint of detail - RGB values are 0,0,0 for a large proportion of the shorts. See the large peak on the extreme left of the histogram? I'm not a good judge of these things but I guess the shot is probably underexposed by about 1 stop.

[bobbyz]

this is what i get sometimes.. got this one today.. i used spot focus... still go this

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2097/2327560689_0181508f92.jpg?v=0

What is spot focus? You mean center point?

For the posted shot, I bet the center AF point is off the subjects and focussing on the back wall.

[bobbyz]

To tdodd, OP is using 50mm f1.8 which is very poor tool for the job. He should be using his 85mm f1.8 but for some reason he thinks it is too long for BB.

[tdodd]

To tdodd, OP is using 50mm f1.8 which is very poor tool for the job. He should be using his 85mm f1.8 but for some reason he thinks it is too long for BB.
You're better informed than I am then :) I can see no Exif data in the photo to tell me what lens or settings were used and I have no idea which other lenses the OP has at his/her disposal. Are you psychic?

I agree the 50mm f/1.8 is a bit cack when it comes to focusing (I hate mine) and it will certainly not help to be pointing the thing at the wrong target :)

[ItzBitzHair]

I realize its a better lens It just that when i had it on being so close i had trouble. I realize that I have a lot to learn so That is something I will have to work on as there are many other.

To tdodd, OP is using 50mm f1.8 which is very poor tool for the job. He should be using his 85mm f1.8 but for some reason he thinks it is too long for BB.

[primoz]

Eos 1 series has nice custom function, which sets active af point to be illuminated all the time. I use this, and I'm happy about it. People normally find it annoying, but for me it works fine.

[primoz]

Just stick with center point.

Sorry for this, but this kinda suggestions are totally off. If other points then center point would be useless, cameras would come with one single af point only.

Next to that... where would you have focus, if you would be shooting with center af point on this photo:

http://www.photo.si/img/sport/spo_skiing_20080309nwm_0539.jpg

Or would you recompose (I shoot quite a bit of fast sport, and I'm still not able to do something like this), when skier is coming at you at around 80km/h?

[tdodd]

Well the FOV would be pretty limited with the 85mm at that range, but I understand it has a good, fast, accurate AF, unlike the nifty. IMO it would have been better to use the 85mm and move back further. This would actually have eased the burden on the AF.
From the position this shot was taken I agree the 85mm would have been too long. Here are a couple of sample crops, pretty close to what the 85mm would have seen....

[tdodd]

Sorry for this, but this kinda suggestions are totally off. If other points then center point would be useless, cameras would come with one single af point only.

Next to that... where would you have focus, if you would be shooting with center af point on this photo:

Or would you recompose (I shoot quite a bit of fast sport, and I'm still not able to do something like this), when skier is coming at you at around 80km/h?
I think shooting a solitary skier places completely different demands on the AF requirements than shooting a bunch of basketball players, running interference, with flailing arms everywhere. If you want to target exactly where your focus is to be, within a tight group of moving people, I don't see what choice you have other than to shoot with a single AF point. It needn't be the centre point necessarily, depending upon your compositional needs. As I said earlier, I don't shoot basketball so I could be wrong on this point but it's what my gut instinct tells me.

(I'm assuming the OP is using something below a 1D series camera.)

[primoz]

I wasn't talking about multiple points. In 99.9% of cases I'm shooting with single point selected (not center one). All I said is, that center af point is pretty much worse point you can have. For shooting skiing, basketball, handball, soccer, swimming or any other moving sport. It places your focus to wrong place, and with wide open lenses, this normally means athletes stomach is in focus, while his face is out of focus already.
So skiing or basketball are not all that different. ;)
PS: Even with basketball, multiple points would probably work when you crop tight enough. :)

[tdodd]

Fair enough :)

[DragonSpeed]

I wasn't talking about multiple points. In 99.9% of cases I'm shooting with single point selected (not center one). All I said is, that center af point is pretty much worse point you can have.

Doesn't the center point have better AF than the others?

I can't recall where I read that, but the center and teh 4 SQUARE corner points have better AF than the diamond peaks for example.

[Riff Raff]

Yes, the center focus point is generally the most accurate. But it'd be awfully limiting trying to keep the center focus point over people's eyes all the time. I'm using outer focus points more often than not. At least they're all cross sensors on the 40D.

[DragonSpeed]

Yes, the center focus point is generally the most accurate. But it'd be awfully limiting trying to keep the center focus point over people's eyes all the time. I'm using outer focus points more often than not. At least they're all cross sensors on the 40D.

True enough. I like to use a leading point (if the subjects generally move left to right - I use a left point) to help with compostion while I shoot.

Also I just reread a review and that diagonal cross in the center only really helps when you are shooting at 2.8 and below apparently.

Cheers

[Riff Raff]

that diagonal cross in the center only really helps when you are shooting at 2.8 and below apparently.

Just as a correction (with respect to the 40D at least): the center cross sensor is higher precision than the other focus points when using a f/2.8 (or larger aperture) lens. The lens is always wide open when focusing.

[bobbyz]

Sorry for this, but this kinda suggestions are totally off. If other points then center point would be useless, cameras would come with one single af point only.

Next to that... where would you have focus, if you would be shooting with center af point on this photo:

http://www.photo.si/img/sport/spo_skiing_20080309nwm_0539.jpg

Or would you recompose (I shoot quite a bit of fast sport, and I'm still not able to do something like this), when skier is coming at you at around 80km/h?

I understand what you mean but the OP is not using 1 series body. The surroundning AF points aren't that accurate on xxxD series. And he is begginer at this so sticking with center point is easier for him, IMHO.

[bobbyz]

You're better informed than I am then :) I can see no Exif data in the photo to tell me what lens or settings were used and I have no idea which other lenses the OP has at his/her disposal. Are you psychic?

I agree the 50mm f/1.8 is a bit cack when it comes to focusing (I hate mine) and it will certainly not help to be pointing the thing at the wrong target :)

Naa, he was positing this info in other threads. Don't know why his exif info gets removed. Maybe he is doing "save for the web".

[ItzBitzHair]

how do I stop my data from getting removed.. I am using photo shop elements or Corel Paint shop pro.

Thnx

I will do what ever I need to do.

Naa, he was positing this info in other threads. Don't know why his exif info gets removed. Maybe he is doing "save for the web".