First time printing, need help (update)

[aam1234]

Hi all,

Took 100's if not thousands of photos since I got into digital, but didn't print a single one yet. Now I would like to print some at the shop as a test to see how they look like.

I'm aware of the aspect ratio where you need to adjust the photo to the printed size. That's not an issue right now, as it's just a test. However, people talk about things that sound very complicated to prepare a photo to be printed.

To make a long story short, what do you need to do to print a photo (a jpeg) at the shop, other than resizing.

Thanks for any help

[PacAce]

Just burn a copy of your images you want printed to CD-R and take it to the shop for printing. What you need to do after that depends on how good or bad the prints come out.

[aam1234]

Thanks Leo.

[ejwebb]

Why do 30 large photos to test???

Just process one or two photos and have 5X7's and 8X10's made to start. Make sure you resize (most recommend dpi of 250 - 300) and crop to the proper aspect ratio. You probably want to apply extra unsharp mask when you prep for printing.

Once you get these back you can decide what else might need to be tweaked in your process to get what you want. That way, you can have 30 photos printed over time and learn from each set to improve the output. Just my opinion but seems safer that sending 30 photos at once and hoping for the best.

Also, I have only sent digital photos once for printing as I have a photo printer at home. The results were better when I asked them to turn OFF the auto correction feature in the Fuji machince that they used at the local Sam's club.

[Scottes]

What I do is save an image at 300 DPI for whatever size photo (1200x1800 for 4x6, etc), convert to sRGB since most photolabs seem to expect this) and Save As JPG at max quality (12 is PS). Throw them all on a CD and go.

I would *not* print 30 5x7s or 8x10s on the first test, but I would definitely try one. If you mix 4x6 and 8x10 on a CD then give the 8x10 a distinctive name - I usually give them something like CRW_9384_8x10.JPG and write my name and the number of images on the CD - "30 @ 4x6 and 1 @ 8x10"

About the only other thing is that some of us have noticed that some printers will chop off a bit around the edges, like 10 or 15 pixels. So if you've got something important that's *very* close to the edge of the image then you might get that something chopped off.

[Scottes]

ejwebb made a great point - no color correction! If they look good on your monitor then add "No Color Corrections!" on the CD and envelope to make sure they see it.

Now I'm pretty sure that you're monitor isn't calibrated, but this is still what I recommend. If your test shots come back a little under-saturated then you know to add some saturation on the next run. DO NOT trust them to saturate the same amount every time!

Which brings up another point. Try giving them 4 or 5 of the same image done different ways. I will do things like add 7% saturation on 1 and 12% on another. I'll also do different sharpening techniques on the same image, like 120%, 140%, 160% and so on. If you do this, put that info INTO the picture - just add a text layer with the settings you used. When you get these samples back you'll know just what to do to your images to get them back the way you want.

When you get the pictures back, check the back. Many (all?) photolab printers will print out a code on the back stating the color corrections and exposure adjustments. You might see something like "N003111" which *could* mean anything, but it *does* mean that they made adjustments. If you told them "no adjustments" then that string should be all Zeroes.

[aam1234]

Thanks ejwebb,

Why do 30 large photos to test???

Because I like them no matter how they come out. You know that kind... family and little nephs & neices.

Make sure you resize (most recommend dpi of 250 - 300)

Now that's the complicated stuff I mentioned earlier. I bought a book just to explain the technical side of digital photography. It wasn't much of a help for printing.

Thanks ejwebb again.

[aam1234]

WAW Scottes, you seem to know these things by heart.

Many thanks for the help.
What I really want to do at this stage is print some photos :oops:

Does it have to be so complicated :cry:

Many thanks again Scottes.

[Scottes]

Does it have to be so complicated :cry:

No, it doesn't have to be complicated.

1200x1800 Save As JPG. sRGB is *highly* recommended.


The rest - all the testing and such - will make things better in the long run, allowing you to get better prints. For now, take the easy way, since they're photos that you'll keep anyway.

But make a note to yourself to get some of these printed again in 6 months. You'll have learned a lot by then, and in 6 months they will be *much* better than those you'll print today.

[aam1234]

I shoot large/fine on the 300D, is that good enough for semi-large photos (sorry I don't know sizes in feet/inches, only in mm/cm).

[Scottes]

Without cropping? Oh, yes, that's plenty big enough for A3, with ease. (297mm x 420mm)

[aam1234]

WOW, really? now that's good news. Thanks! (will run to the print shop 1st thing in the morning, too excited).

Thanks again.

[ejwebb]

I understand why 30 prints, now. Let us know how they come out!!

[aam1234]

Sure will ejwebb, will do.

And thanks for the help earlier.

[aam1234]

As ejwebb requested, here are the results...I'm impressed!!

The colors came out as in the monitor, even though mine isn't calibrated. However, they were chopped on the sides, which was expected I guess. Btw, I took ejwebb advice and told the lady not to color correct anything.

So that raises a question: does it really matter if you crop it before printing, since the machine will crop it anyway. Of course if you adjust it yourself you will do it in the way you like it, and no surprises.

One can imagine how much better they will be after taking the advice mentioned above into account.

This camper is very happy. Thank you guys for the help.

[ejwebb]

That's great! Glad it's working out for you. The advantage of cropping it yourself is your control of the cropping. Rather than just arbitrarily cropping equal amounts off each side, you can crop however you feel is best for the composition of the photo. You may decide to crop a little off the top and none off one side to focus on your subject more effectively. Now that you know you can get decent prints you are free to experiment how to get GREAT prints!!

[aam1234]

Thanks ejwebb.

I have one more question. Noticed that all the photos were chopped from the sides, is that how it normally works or do they crop a bit from the top & bottom sometimes.

Thanks again.

[ejwebb]

Look at the number of pixels in your photos - it varies by camera and by size settings in the camera. As an example, my digital Rebel takes photos in large JPEG that have 3072 pixels by 2048 pixels which is an aspect ratio of 1.5. If I want to print a 5 X 7 photo, for which the ratio is 1.4, I must remove some pixels from the long side to get it into the 1.4 ratio. In this case, I could crop 205 pixels off of the long side to create an image that is 2867 X 2048 which now has an aspect ratio of 1.4. I would then resize the photo to 5 X 7 at 300 dpi with resampling on.

This same process can be repeated with any print size - I think most digital camera aspect ratios are "longer" than standard print sizes so the crop usually does come off the long ends.

Hope this helps.

[aam1234]

Thanks, that's great info. Will copy & paste it for future reference.

I have one more (and probably dumb) question.

You said something very interesting:


I would then resize the photo to 5 X 7

And:

This same process can be repeated with any print size


My question is once you achieved the 1.4 aspect ratio can you print it to any size or does each size has its own dimensions in pixels (hope that makes sense :oops: ).

I mean if you make the photo 2867 X 2048, can you print it in any size you like.

Thanks again.

[ejwebb]

Each print size has its own ratio - you can do the math easily by dividing the long side of the print into the short side. My example was a 5 X 7 (7/5=1.4), but let's consider an 8 X 10. In this case the aspect ratio is 1.25 (10/8=1.25).

So, to adjust the image size in my example to that aspect ratio, I would multiply the short side by 1.25 (2048X1.25) to get required pixels for the long size of 2560. Subtracting this amount from the existing 3072 pixels on the long side gives me a crop of 512 pixels to be taken off the long end in order to end up with a 1.25 aspect ratio for an 8 X 10 print.

Did not realize there was so much math in photography, huh? The easy way to do this, of course, is to use the crop tool in Photoshop or Elements where you simply enter the required print size and dpi and position the crop tool on the photo as you would like it cropped. However, it is good to understand the math involved. It is also something to keep in mind when composing photos in the camera, as you will likely lose some of the long end when you print.

Out of curiosity, what camera and editing software are you using?

[aam1234]

Another great info (and will copy & paste it too).

Was trying to understand the concept. As you said the s/w will do the correct cropping for you.

I have the same cam as yours, the 300D/rebel.

Many thanks for the help.

[Scottes]

As to cropping, this (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34567) tutorial has a lot of great info & tips.

[aam1234]

Aha, Scottes dropped by. I wanted to thank you but didn't know when, so...Thanks!

Yourself and ejwebb were of great help, Thanks again.

Btw, showed my bro the photos of his kids and he was stunned (he wanted to them, grr).

[ejwebb]

Great post Scottes. Being an accountant, I usually revert to the math - but you even included very useful pictures and screenshots!! Very nice...

[Scottes]

Being an accountant, I usually revert to the math - but you even included very useful pictures and screenshots!!

Being an engineer, I *always* revert to the math - it's just second nature.

:-)

I think it was PacAce who mentioned a few of those tips - I didn't know half of the stuff mentioned a week before I wrote that tutorial. But I thought they were pretty darn cool, so I wrote it up. And they certainly make life easier!

[malum]

I'm slightly confused.
I've never used the marque tool to crop, however it seems you can use the crop tool for a specific ratio (as you mention) but if you don't put in any units of measurement (simply 5 and 7 for instance rather than 5in and 7in) it throws up a box that is that ratio and can be made larger or smaller and moved about. If you leave the resolution box blank it preserves the resolution as it was or you can put in what you want (300dpi for instance) This would seem to have the advantage of the marque method without the limitations or an I missing something?

[Scottes]

You're correct Nick, and you're not missing a thing.

Right now, I can't think of a disadvantage to using the Crop tool, and it's certainly more powerful and has more features than the Marquee tool. But for some reason I almost never use the Crop tool - I mean like once a year I might use it. Habit, I guess. But I also never use all the Crop features as I just happen to do one step at a time for maximum control. Even so, the Crop tool would still do the job.

[malum]

Thanks

I also go one step at a time (mostly out of habit).

A little North of Boston is where my old man lives (or is it a little south) Gloucester anyway :lol:

[Scottes]

Goucester is a bit north of Boston. It's one of my favorite spots for photography and sunrises, particularly during the winter months.