Focus with Shutter or * [AF ON] button? -READ ME- [Archive]

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HJMinard

28th of September 2004 (Tue), 08:06

**EDIT AGAIN***

This thread dates back to 2004, BEFORE Canon installed the now ubiquitous "AF ON" button.
In those days, we used the * button.
Modern EOS starting with the 1D MkIII and 40D use the AF ON button instead with a lot of additional options.

** EDIT **
This thread is a "Split" from the FAQ topic re: favorite custom functions;
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42867&highlight=

The Custom Functions Thread went a little bit O.T. with the subsequent discussion on the benifits and dislikes of using a particular Custom Function.

The debate over CF # 4 is certainly worth its own thread

** End EDIT **
CDS

CF # 4 Get that focus control onto the * button ASAP

CDS, I've seen that mentioned quite a few times. What is the advantage of that feature?

scottbergerphoto

28th of September 2004 (Tue), 08:24

Separating focus and exposure on the 10D and 1D Mark II has made a significant change in the way I take pictures. Focusing using the * or X button on the back allows you to choose instantly between all AF points and a manually selected one. In addition you can focus, release the * or X button and recompose, then depress the shutter button for exposure. In addition on the 10D, by not pressing the * or X button, the camera is in Manual focus and this forces the flash metering to average all the sensor input instead of biasing an active focus point resulting in more consistent flash. This is not the case though for the 20D which uses ETTL2. ETTL2 is independent of AF points.
Try it, you'll like it!
Scott

JLS Photo

28th of September 2004 (Tue), 08:28

CF # 4 Get that focus control onto the * button ASAP

CDS, I've seen that mentioned quite a few times. What is the advantage of that feature?

It also allows you to track a moving subject continuously, BUT the exposure is only locked in when you press the shutter button. In other words, the standard method is to half press the shutter button--this will lock in AF (or servo mode) AND lock in exposure. However, if you subject moves from light to dark with the shutter button half pressed, your exposure will be off at the time of firing.

Using the * allows you to keep focus, but delay setting the exposure until the picture is actually taken.

HJMinard

28th of September 2004 (Tue), 08:31

That makes so much sense it is almost difficult to understand why that is not the default setup ... thanks for the info !!

scottbergerphoto

28th of September 2004 (Tue), 09:28

Here is the expert on using the * and X buttons to focus:
http://visual-vacations.com/Photography/1ds_autofocus_tips.htm
Scott

CyberDyneSystems

28th of September 2004 (Tue), 10:03

That makes so much sense it is almost difficult to understand why that is not the default setup ... thanks for the info !!

Yep...

An article on the subject by famed Bird Photographer Arthur Morris
http://www.birdsasart.com/

Teaching on Old Dog New tricks
Text Copyright and Photography Copyright Arthur Morris©

On a crisp fall afternoon, dozens of Sanderlings scurried frenetically in search of sand fleas and other tasty invertebrates that live in the wet sand along the deserted beach at the very edge of the Atlantic Ocean at Stone Harbor Point, New Jersey. Occasionally, they would stop for a few seconds to preen or simply to stare at the crashing waves.

I was seated (with a wet butt) behind my Gitzo 1548 Carbon Fiber tripod, working with the Canon EF 600mm f/4.0L super-telephoto lens and a Canon EOS 3 camera body. The EF 1.4X teleconverter yielded the 840mm-f/5.6 combination that is my everyday bird photography rig. Before I came to realize the many benefits of Custom Function 4 (CF4), available on all mid-range and high-end Canon EOS camera bodies, I would have faced the following dilemma: Should I work in AI Servo mode so that I could easily track the moving birds, or switch to One-Shot mode so that I could focus on a momentarily still Sanderling, recompose, and make the image?

By opting to utilize Custom Function 4, I had the best of both worlds. When activated, CF 4 transfers autofocus operation from the shutter button to the exposure lock button, the left of the two small buttons on the top right of the camera back. With autofocus set to AI Servo mode (for moving subjects), I simply activated autofocus with my right thumb to track a running or a foraging bird, or tapped the button once to focus on the eye of a stationary bird. In the latter instance, I would quickly recompose and make the image by fully depressing the shutter button. I was able to enjoy the benefits of both AI Servo AF and One-Shot AF without having to toggle back and forth (by pressing the AF button and turning the main dial). In addition, when photographing static subjects, I did not have to keep the shutter button depressed halfway as is customary when working in One-Shot AF mode.

When a Royal Tern flew by, it was a simple matter to frame the shot and activate AI Servo autofocus with my right thumb. To boot, I was able to pre-focus manually before engaging AF. This allows the photographer to drastically reduce the time of initial focus acquisition, and is especially helpful when attempting to do flight photography with the 600mm-lens/2X teleconverter combination. (Focus manually until the bird is relatively sharp, then engage AF by depressing the exposure lock button; thus, the system does not have to struggle to "see" the subject.)

Referring to the use of Custom Function 4 in "The Art of Bird Photography; The Complete Guide to Professional Field Techniques," I wrote, " Many photographers rave about this function, but I do not." And in public lectures and seminars I expressed disdain for CF 4 by stating that those attempting to use it would surely wind up on a psychiatristâ€™s couch. (I felt that they would become extremely confused when attempting to activate AF--is it the shutter button, or is it the exposure lock button? Is it the index finger, or is it the thumb?) But oh, how wrong I was. Today, when photographing perched birds or those on the ground, I activate CF-4 so that I am always ready to make either static portraits or images of the birds in motion.

For in-flight only photography situations, such as those that often arise at Bosque Del Apache NWR, Socorro, NM, or at the Venice Rookery, South Venice, FL, I find it easiest to set CF 4 to the default setting (0) so that autofocus is activated in the traditional manner, by depressing the shutter button halfway. Additionally, I am often afield with a big telephoto lens and one of Canonâ€™s lightweight, hand-holdable flight lenses, either the EF 300mm f/4 L IS, the EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS, or the "toy lens,â€ the EF 400mm f/5.6L. (FYI, the latter is still the worldâ€™s best for photographing birds in flight.) When I carry one of these lenses on a shoulder strap, mounted on a lightweight EOS A2 camera body, I always set CF 4 to the default setting, as these lenses are used almost exclusively to photograph birds in flight or in action. Thus, I simply depress the shutter button to activate AF. The body on my big tripod mounted super-telephoto is, however, set with CF-4 activated, as this lens is used primarily to make portraits of birds at rest. In reality, I do not have any problem switching between shutter button AF activation and exposure lock button AF activation as the shooting situation demands. And, I have not, as I once predicted--needed to undergo psychotherapy.

Though the owners of the newest Canon Super Telephoto Image Stabilizer Lenses have full time manual focus available, (hey--the folks at Canon Japan sometimes do read my product critiques!), they will still benefit from activating CF 4 when photographing perched or standing birds. They will then--as described previously--have the option of working in either AI Servo AF, or, effectively, in One-Shot AF, without having to keep the shutter button depressed halfway. To attain One-shot AF while utilizing CF 4, simply tap the exposure lock button to focus on the birdâ€™s eye, then release the button, recompose, and shoot. As I said, the best of both worlds.

With EOS A2, Elan II, and 1N bodies, activate Custom Function 4 by toggling from CF 4-0 to CF 4-1. EOS 3 users may wish to note that there are two ways to activate CF-4, either by choosing CF 4-1, or CF 4-3. The former locks the exposure when the shutter button is depressed halfway after focus has been set, the latter yields real time exposure. I almost always choose the latter so that I need not keep the shutter button depressed to hold the exposure when photographing static subjects.

To Chuck Westfall, Canon technical representative, who has suggested for years that I give CF 4 a try, I say, "You were right. I was wrong, big time wrong. I wish I that I had listened to you sooner." I guess that you can teach an old dog new tricks.

drisley

28th of September 2004 (Tue), 10:14

In addition on the 10D, by not pressing the * or X button, the camera is in Manual focus and this forces the flash metering to average all the sensor input instead of biasing an active focus point resulting in more consistent flash. This is not the case though for the 20D which uses ETTL2. ETTL2 is independent of AF points.
Try it, you'll like it!
Scott
Excellent!
How does this affect non-flash metering? I know that the 10D biases exposure metering on the focus points too. So would this help?
Does anybody know if the 20D biases to the autofocus point for exposure metering?

CyberDyneSystems

28th of September 2004 (Tue), 10:34

scottbergerphoto

28th of September 2004 (Tue), 11:17

Correct me if I'm wrong...

I don't have the reference material on hand.. but this is not how I understand it.

For the 10D and 20D I understand that all metering is biased towards the center "Partial" circle regardless of active focus point.

On the "1" series the ONLY time you get metering biased towards the focus point is when you use "Spot metering"

As the 20D and 10D do not have Spot metering.. they are neccesarily incpabable of this ability.

Correct me if I have misunderstood this.... but with the 10D in partial metering I know it uses the center circle no matter what AF point I use.

Are you suggesting that if I used "evaluative" that the 10D would have "centered" on the active focus point?
Let's be clear about which metering we are talking about. In ambient light metering, in Evaluative Metering, the metering system gives emphasis to the active AF point(s) while also utilizing data from the other sensors. It clearly states that in the 10D Manual. This has nothing to do with spot metering in which data from other sensors are ignored. It is a function of Evaluative Metering. You can't control how the camera balances the information it gets as you can in spot metering. If you switch to Manual Focusing in Evaluative Metering, it will bias the Center AF Point.(Page 75)

In flash metering, it is my understanding that in ETTL the flash metering is biased to the active AF points and that you can avoid that by switching to MF on the lens or using the Cfn's to put focus on * and X and releasing the button before depressing the shutter button. In ETTLII there is no such bias to AF points.

Here is an additional reference: http://www.camera.canon.com.my/archive/photography/art/art14/2.htm
Regards,
Scott

CyberDyneSystems

28th of September 2004 (Tue), 13:18

Thanks Scott,

in my case I confused the issue beuase I use "Partial" so often... which allways "weights" the center circle for metering regardless of active focus point.

Seems I need to use evalauative more often... particularly when using an off center focus point.

Thanks.

kawter2

28th of September 2004 (Tue), 13:26

CF # 4 Get that focus control onto the * button ASAP

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Deckyon

28th of September 2004 (Tue), 13:37

CF # 4 Get that focus control onto the * button ASAP

Would that mean setting it to 1, 2 or 3

CyberDyneSystems

28th of September 2004 (Tue), 13:46

Definately 1... and also 3 the difference being how the AE/lock functions on the half shutter press.

I usually use CF#4 @ 1

When you do this.. bursts can be an issue.. as each following shot will use the same mettering.. if the scene or more specifically lighting is changing as you track a moving subject.. then avoid using a "burst" whcih will lock the exposure on the first shot.. instead trip the shutter for each individual shot making sure to let up on it enough to maintain a "half press" exposure lock.

By switching to 3 you can do away with AE lock all together.. but I don't like this as it won't allow the recomposure trick.

MarkH

2nd of October 2004 (Sat), 00:32

elbirth

6th of October 2004 (Wed), 08:55

CF # 4 Get that focus control onto the * button ASAP

Tried that, absolutely HATED it!

It's so much easier to use the shutter button to focus and then fully press it to activate the shutter. For me it seems that focusing with the * button fixes a problem that I don't have. The only times that I have an exposure problem, the metering would be fooled no matter what and I switch to M to correct the problem.

I should be getting my 20D later today, so I haven't had the chance to try it yet... but I agree with Mark, in that I think I won't like the function. The only time I really see that as being helpful is if you're doing a photo shoot with a model that's walking around somewhat, but stays roughly the same distance from you.

Belmondo

6th of October 2004 (Wed), 09:08

I'm with CDS on this one. For shooting in a variety of circumstances, having separate AF and exposure locks is very useful.

No, it's crucial.

elbirth

6th of October 2004 (Wed), 09:52

let me ask you this....

I get that it puts the focus lock onto the * button... does that mean, though, that since exposure is still set when the picture is taken that you have to still hold the shutter halfway to lock exposure, or can you just lock exposure with the separate button and then fully press the shutter?

Also, would you really say that having it separate is better for a casual day of walking around and photographing things with no real set goal in mind of what type of shots you want to get at that given time? It seems like it's just an added step (by having to use a separate button altogether) that really isn't necessary.

Belmondo

6th of October 2004 (Wed), 10:32

For me, having it separate is valuable, no matter what I'm doing. I think there is a misconception that this is just one more thing to keep track of when shooting, but it really isn't. After a short time, this becomes second nature, and you'll find yourself doing it without thinking. You will automatically set your focus with your thumb and be confident of where the focus zones are. Then you can half-press the shutter, check exposure, and take the shot. These are things that most photographers would agree should be done separately.

elbirth

6th of October 2004 (Wed), 10:43

Interesting... I'll mess around with it when I get my 20D, and see if I can do so with a completely unbiased outlook on it and see how it works out.

But to get back to the main topic... any other suggestions for good custom functions?

AzzKicker

31st of October 2004 (Sun), 11:57

CyberDyneSystems

31st of October 2004 (Sun), 12:03

I suppose it is unusual at first .. especially if you are used to doing it with the shutter button.. but if you look at the advantages.. then you may see it is worth getting used to..

You really can't try it for a day.. you need to leave it that way for a few weeks before you have retrained yourself to take 100% advantage.

I made the switch when I purchased the 1D (old one.. not the recent MkII)

In the end.. the thumb becomes second nature.. and you can recompose and re-meter at will and only worry about AF re-focusing when and where you want it too...

It offers MUCH more flexibility and cotrol over the three independant actions that are by default tied to the shutter button alone (Shutter release, Metering and/or metering lock, and AutoFocus)

By seperating the AF from the shutter button equation.. in the end you have far more controll.

P.S. the BOLD RED ASAP type was to stesss the importance of getting used to doing this as early as possible.. so as to avoid the hassle of "not being used to it"

In many photogs opinions it is the single most important switch you can make with a CF towards taking full advantage of your cameras flexibility and control. (check Sports illustrated's recomendations or Chuck Westfall of Canon)

I beleive Nikon's are set up this way to begin with.. either that .. or every Nikon I have ever handled was allready set to a rear focus button by there owners. IMHO this SHOULD be the default. Having all these functions including AF tied to the shutter release is soooo point and shoot :roll: :wink:

Yes.. it takes getting used to.

But for any type of action shooting where you actually want control of what you are focusing on.. and when,.. this is the only way to fly.

Belmondo

31st of October 2004 (Sun), 12:24

I set both my 10Ds to work this way, and it didn't really take that long to get used to it. Once I did, the advantage to the setup became obvious. It was the first thing I did with both the Mk II and the 20D, before I took a single photo (not counting the perfunctory filing cabinet shot that always seems to happen when I get a new camera.)
You will find that being able lock your exposure and focus independently is incredibly useful when setting up your shots. IMHO, this should be the default setting on new cameras.

Chris1le

1st of November 2004 (Mon), 00:25

I tried CF#4 and didn't like it at first. After awhile though it starts to feel natural. Especially when in situations when it is hard to get the focus to lock. Once locked let go of the button and that part of taking the picture is taken care of. Then you are free to point around for your exposure. It works for me now. I was in a situation last night where I thought I'd be better off going back to the default setting. I was back to using the * for focus real quick. :wink:

DeeplyDigital

1st of November 2004 (Mon), 02:03

Guess I have to practise!
I have far too many slightly off shots not to try this (CF4).
I wonder if this will help in extreme low-light situations.

Thanks for the input. You people are as convincing as always.

J.
-

Kevin M

1st of November 2004 (Mon), 02:56

I have to agree with CDS on Cfn 4 option 1. I have been set up this way since day 1 and I cannot envisage using the 10d any other way. Pressing the * button when required becomes second nature after very little practice.

Jon, The Elder

1st of November 2004 (Mon), 08:24

dtrayers

1st of November 2004 (Mon), 10:10

How does this help in sport shooting when your "window-of-opportunity" is in less than a second ?

Cannot see the advantage, maybe I still do not understand.

I shoot bursts at horse shows and car track races.

Then you should have the focus set to AF-Servo mode and it will continuously track the focus as you hold the * button.

So you'll ask, why can't I just hold the shutter half way to track focus? For two reasons:

First, the exposure will lock as well, and as you follow your subect the exposure may change. Separating the AF from the exposure prevents this.

Secondly (and more important if you're shooting bursts, IMO), the camera slows WAY down in flushing the buffer when you keep the shutter half pressed. So by moving the AF to the * button you can track in AF-Servo mode and the buffer will run at full speed. If you had the AF still controlled by the shutter button you'd have to have it half-pressed and you'd find you'd be filling the buffer all the time.

Persian-Rice

1st of November 2004 (Mon), 10:37

Jon, The Elder

1st of November 2004 (Mon), 11:06

I'm a bit skeptical but I will give it a go.

I find that as I get older - I offer as many thanks as apologies !!

maderito

1st of November 2004 (Mon), 12:25

Let me go out on a small limb here and say that CF 4-1 (or CF 4-3) is highly overrated. Why split AF/AE between two buttons when it is so easily and intuitively accomplished with one?

This is a setting primarily for sportshooters and action (e.g. wildlife) photography. As best I can tell (and I've tried it), it is most useful when you have the camera in AI Servo mode. Then you can press and hold the * button to use AI Servo continuous focus _OR_ you can press and release * to focus/recompose as if you were in One Shot mode. So you get finer control over how you engage and lock focusing.

The other advantage is that you can lock exposure with the shutter button (CF4-1), since normally exposure is continuously adjusted until the shutter is fully depressed (which is what happens with the CF4-3 setting).

It's not particularly hard to adapt to using CF4-1 or CF4-3. I just don't see the point except under situations when want to switch (in effect) between AI Servo and AI Focus easily.

My other major complaint is that since I shoot with my left eye and with glasses, my thumb doesn't quite find the * button target easily and comfortably. But I'd live with that if I felt that adapting to CF4 shooting was a significant advantage.

I'm still open more arguments in favor of CF4 -- but I've read quite a few. :)

CyberDyneSystems

1st of November 2004 (Mon), 13:45

Maderito,

I understand what you are saying, and I agree with a lot of your points.. but I have to disagree with one aspect of your point.

That being your assertion that the use of CF#4 is "overrated"

I disagree because the importance of this set up is clearly highly subjective. For me I can not stress how invaluable this has been to my photography. If you read over some of the other posts here,. you will see many say the same.

As to your question
Q: Why split AF/AE between two buttons when it is so easily and intuitively accomplished with one?

A: Because there are times that a photographer may not want the point of exposure to be the same as the point of focus and there are times when splitting these functions from one button to two will in fact make gaining focus and exposure from two seperate parts of the composition much faster.

To me this added control is not over rated at all.
I feel there are some additional points that should be made.

1. The degree to which this method effects your photography will vary considerably based on what and how you shoot.

2. No matter how used to doing things one way or the other, it is allways a good idea to try something that may in fact help to improve your photography and give more control to the photographer and less to the camera.

3. For some reason this debate is reminding a lot of "RAW Vs. jpeg" :?

In my mind, in both cases.. there is ONE method that clearly offers more control and flexibility which can only benifit the final product. In each case there is however some obvious adjustment that is required on the part of the photographer to allow themselves to take full advantage of the additional control. With RAW Vs. jpeg however, it is also clear that to take advantage of RAW a lot of adjustments must be made,. storage size, post processing time, etc.. all adds up to some solid reasons why somone would not wish to try or switch to RAW.

With CF # 4-1.. all it takes is a a month or less time with your camera set up in a new way.

izzypizzy

1st of November 2004 (Mon), 13:58

I want to make sure I understand this, this function has no use if your shooting in full manual mode, correct?

dtrayers

1st of November 2004 (Mon), 14:12

I want to chime in here and add the the CF-4 is one of the primary reasons I sold my DRebel and got a 10D.

I was shooting a lot of dance with the DRebel and found that I really needed AF-Servo to follow the dancers. When I could trick the camera into going into AF-Servo mode (by doing the half-press, move the focus ring trick), it was a chore to keep it in AF-Servo. And when I could keep it there (after a shot only letting up on the shutter release to the half-pressed point, not all the way), I constantly ran into the buffer full, and it would take forever to flush. I had to relase the shutter all the way (loosing AF-Servo lock), allow the buffer to clear (30 seconds or so), then start the whole thing over again.

With the CF-4 function, it's a non-issue. Even though you can set the 10D into AF-Servo mode, without CF-4 the only way to track the subect is with a half pressed shutter. It's under the same limitations as the DRebel.

Pekka

1st of November 2004 (Mon), 14:15

sGu

1st of November 2004 (Mon), 14:16

This is exactly how I set up on my 1D for all my shootings.

One thing though I'm not very clear of, it is said to release * button then press shutter, but when shooting moving object coming towards you, do you just let go of focusing? Or do you keep focusing while pressing shutter? burst mode, that is.

It doesn't make sense when you stop focusing while object is still moving, does it

maderito

1st of November 2004 (Mon), 14:29

CDS,

Points taken and accepted.

I tried hard to convince myself that that CF4-1 would help me with shooting action. It really didn't take long to get used to. But I did keep switching back to standard shooting modes for everything else. In the end, I just couldn't convince myself that CF4 worked better for me in the sports arena. If I shot action every day, especially for a living, I'd probably use it for the small increase in flexibility.

For wildlife photography (which I don't do) - CF4-1or3 makes a lot more sense to me since you would want the ability to switch between between One Shot and AI Servo effortlessly and on-the-fly (which is what you effectively get with CF4-1,3 when in AI Servo mode). Maybe if I took more shoots of stationery, screaming sports fans and coaches, I'd give the * focus technique another try.

The usual CF4 explanation given by sportshooters is that while in AI Servo mode, they activate focusing with the * button and then snap off shots when desired with the shutter button. I do the same in the standard way: activate focusing with a half-shutter depress, and then fire shots with a full depress.

I considered the possibility that pressing the * button allows predictive focusing to work before, during and after you fire shots so that you're focus is more likely "spot on" when you fire the first shot(s) AND the next shot or burst. I concluded that it doesn't matter whether you use the * button or the half-depress shutter method. In AI Servo mode, predictive focus is always working between shots as long as the shutter is depressed - fully or partially.

You're right - overrated may be the wrong word. Perhaps better said: CF4-0 is underrated - the standard half-depress to focus and full depress to complete autoexposure and image caputre method. It's one of those not-so-small camera design things that somebody got right quite a while ago. :D

maderito

1st of November 2004 (Mon), 14:45

I want to chime in here and add the the CF-4 is one of the primary reasons I sold my DRebel and got a 10D.

...

And when I could keep it there (after a shot only letting up on the shutter release to the half-pressed point, not all the way), I constantly ran into the buffer full, and it would take forever to flush. I had to relase the shutter all the way (loosing AF-Servo lock), allow the buffer to clear (30 seconds or so), then start the whole thing over again.
I don't have my camera with me to check this. (And I don't do a lot of burst shooting.) On the 10D, the buffer won't clear with the shutter half depressed in AI servo mode? And it does clear when CF4-1 is set and the * button depressed during shooting?

As you know, the Rebel doesn't have selectable AI Servo - only AI Focus which becomes AI Servo when the subject starts moving. That's the reason I thought people concerned with flexible focusing modes chose the 10D over the Rebel.

maderito

1st of November 2004 (Mon), 16:17

I don't have my camera with me to check this. (And I don't do a lot of burst shooting.) On the 10D, the buffer won't clear with the shutter half depressed in AI servo mode? And it does clear when CF4-1 is set and the * button depressed during shooting?
dtrayers,

Just confirmed your statement. Without the CF4-1 setting, you do have to release the shutter button fully to get the buffer to clear while burst shooting in AI servo mode. (I checked on my 20D). After torturing my camera, I did get an Err 99 - but not the dreaded lockup. Everything went smoothly using CF4-1 instead.

Now I have to rethink (and retest) this CF4 thing all over again. :? :cry: :shock:

Thanks.

GenEOS

2nd of November 2004 (Tue), 11:26

:D Once you go back you'll never go back. :D

It takes a lot of getting used to. Yes, there are times it is quicker to use the standard set up. But, you will find that by seperating these two it increases speed under certain conditions.

Sports photogs and wildlife photogs not using it, are depriving themselves of a key functoin available to them.

Notably, with a large Canon prime with AF-stop buttons, you can set the AF-stop buttons to activate AF like the back button. CF-19 on 1 series bodies.

I cannot stress enough, that this is a function that takes time to master, but you will not regret it.

Cadwell

2nd of November 2004 (Tue), 12:23

Tried it, don't like it, did nothing for me. Sorry disciples of the CF 4 :P

PacAce

2nd of November 2004 (Tue), 13:46

I used to use the "*" button for focusing all the time when I first got my 10D a year and a half ago. But after a couple of month of suffering from a soar thumb (CTD?) I gave up on it. It was just putting too much strain on my thumb. :cry:

The occassional "push the button to focus" was fine but it was those "keep pressing the button while tracking" that was killing me, even though I didn't do those too often. And, of course, the repeated thumb movement of pressing the button didn't make things any better. Maybe I just need to work out my right thumb a little bit more to strengthen it becaues I did like using the "*" for focusing while I was using it. :?

ScottE

2nd of November 2004 (Tue), 15:33

I started assigning AF to the * button a long time ago when I was shooting film with an EOS 3. I still use it with my digital Canon. I use this setting mostly for wildlife photos where it is too easy for autofocus to zero in on some twig or blade of grass instead of the eye of an animal or bird. With the * button you can get focus very close, then touch up with the focus ring. You don't have to worry about keeping the shutter button partially pressed after manually focusing. This only applies if you use good Canon or Sigma lenses that have full time manual focus override. It wouldn't be worthwhile using a lens that does not allow manual focus when set to AF.

I also keep the AF set on the AI-Servo mode. If the animal starts moving I can keep the * button depressed and focus will track it.

On the other hand, for many other types of photography I return autofocus to the shutter button. Who wants to fool with the * button when trying to photograph a fast moving skier while wearing gloves?

The CF 4-1 or CF 4-3 setting is a tool that should be used when it assists you. If it doesn't help, switch CF 4 back to 0. It only takes a few seconds to make the switch and you usually only have to do that once on any given shoot.

Nobody ever said you had to choose one or the other forever. Like any tool, use it when it is appropriate for the job at hand.

Spatch

3rd of November 2004 (Wed), 05:58

jgbeam

3rd of November 2004 (Wed), 06:43

This has been one of the most informative threads in a long time. I intend to give the CF4-1 and 3 settings a try and see how it goes. It seems to me that it won't be much different than using my old Canon T90 manual focus except that I press a button instead of turning a ring AND I don't have to rely on my eyesight.

I was first aware of this feature when I viewed Jack Reznicki's video highlighting the MarkII's features shortly after it came out. Looking back at that video, I see that the CF4 options are the very first feature that he discusses. He says that most pros, having been accustomed to years of manual focusing, switch to the button focus.

http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/markII/mainpage.html#

Jim

maderito

3rd of November 2004 (Wed), 07:24

I do not know if I am missing something here, but isn't the focus/exposure already separated (if required) with CF4 set at 0. You can use the * button to set the exposure and then use the shutter button as normal for focussing. I tried this on my 10D and as long as you keep the * button depressed the camera only refocuses and does not reset the exposure.

Mark.
Correct - that's what most people do to separately control focusing and exposure. Indeed, that's why there is the * button, the focus exposure lock button.

The issue in this thread is not how to control exposure lock but rather how to control focus behavior (acquiring focus, tracking, and locking). If you experiment with your camera, you'll see that you get additional flexibility via CF4-1,3 which quite frankly is hard to define precisely. Among other things, CF4-1,3 gives you the ability to rapidly switch between One Shot and AI Servo focus modes using the * button. The alternative is to change focus modes by pressing the drive mode selection button and then rotating the main dial - clearly not easy under dynamic shooting conditions. CF4-1,3 creates additional flexibility in managing focusing behavior. As noted in earlier posts, it has its advantages under certain shooting conditions.

Spatch

3rd of November 2004 (Wed), 08:06

Fair enough, I understood the main drive of the topic was to separate the exposure and focussing buttons. I think I will have a look at the manual tonight, and experiment, to fully understand what benefits the CF4-1/3 function gives.

HJMinard

3rd of November 2004 (Wed), 08:24

Among other things, CF4-1,3 gives you the ability to rapidly switch between One Shot and AI Servo focus modes using the * button. The alternative is to change focus modes by pressing the drive mode selection button and then rotating the main dial - clearly not easy under dynamic shooting conditions.

I'm not clear on how this works. I have CF4 set to "1" and I've been using the "*" button to focus. I'm getting used to it and I see the benefit. But how exactly do I switch between AI Servo and One Shot with this setting? Or is it only with setting "3" that this can be accomplished?

davidwegs

3rd of November 2004 (Wed), 10:05

I have been reading this tread and with great interest. I tried the * focus method for a short time on a second camera. I kept forgetting to focus and had a bunch 0f OOF shots to show for it.

I want to make the switch but I get the idea from you all that its a do or die move, right?

I mean you can't make a greceful transition into using this, its not feasable is it?

CyberDyneSystems

3rd of November 2004 (Wed), 13:37

David,. I agree. It is a bit tricky at first.. and it does take some serious hours of shooting to get used to it. :?

Lamium

3rd of November 2004 (Wed), 13:45

David,. I agree. It is a bit tricky at first.. and it does take some serious hours of shooting to get used to it. :?

but after those few serious hours you will never look back!

CyberDyneSystems

3rd of November 2004 (Wed), 14:21

8) That's certainly how I felt about it.

I think it's worth while for everyone to give it a try,.. but clearly some do not take to it,.. so some do "go back" :wink:

maderito

3rd of November 2004 (Wed), 15:06

I'm not clear on how this works. I have CF4 set to "1" and I've been using the "*" button to focus. I'm getting used to it and I see the benefit. But how exactly do I switch between AI Servo and One Shot with this setting? Or is it only with setting "3" that this can be accomplished?

Sorry ... smal detail. :) Set CF4-1 (or CF4-3) and Select AI Servo Mode. Then ...

When you press the * button and hold, you're in AI Servo Mode. Fire away with your shots.

When you press the * button, establish focus and release, you have locked focus as in One Shot mode. Take your shot whenever you're ready, re-composing if appropriate.

Imagine the circumstance when you're primarily interested in capturing basketball action with AI Servo predictive focusing. You've been mashing the * button. Then a foul is commited and a player steps to the foul line. The action pauses, but you're ready. You focus on the player's face and release the * button. You've locked the focus and you're ready to capture the winning foul shout.

HJMinard

3rd of November 2004 (Wed), 18:55

skiphoto

4th of November 2004 (Thu), 07:35

Now I always use the * button and CFn. The results have been amazing and so much better than using the shutter button. The 1D Mk11 seems to be thrown off very easily when using the shutter buton and sometimes the slightest pressure release will reset the focus resulting in soft out of focus subjects

I only shoot action and have found that this methodology (Recommended by my cannon rep) is the opnly way to go. Ergonomically it is very easy after a very short time

Just my ten cents

jeremy

GenEOS

4th of November 2004 (Thu), 08:19

I will challenge anyone here to a thumb wrestling match. After mashing the Mark II's AE Lock button "*" down for hours on end, you develope a pretty strong thumb.

I don't know if the 20D has the options for lens AF-stop buttons, but on the MKII, you have options to set those buttons to do different tasks.

I really don't think this thread is demanding that back button focus is the only way, but more to enlighten those who may not know, what you can do with it.

Controlling focus is what it is all about.

Tapeman

4th of November 2004 (Thu), 15:25

I use CF 4 -1 almost all of the time. I turn it off when I give someone the camera to take a shot.

mjordan

4th of November 2004 (Thu), 21:48

I tried it and didn't like it either. I shoot fast action dog agility and herding and I was missing too many shots using the * and I tried it for more than a day. I can see where it would be a great mode for some people, but it really isn't a silver bullet for everyone.

Yes, I do miss shots by not releasing the shutter sometimes and yes, exposure changes as the dogs move all over the place in and out of the sun and shadows, but I still had less missed shots than with the *. Maybe it would have been different if I hadn't already shot several years using the half shutter function and I would have been able to make the transition.

I've gotten more into scenic and outdoor shots using a tripod and very slow shutter speeds and I can't see it being of use in this situation either. Mostly I use a remote shutter release so I don't want to touch the camera.

Mike

DeeplyDigital

5th of November 2004 (Fri), 14:09

So - I am getting good at using CFn 4-1, lots more keepers than usual.

When I press the enlargement button - the one beside the * - all
focus points light up - does it mean all those points will be in focus?

Is it right that the focus confirmation light in the viewfinder does NOT
light up when using Cfn 4-1?

confusedly yours,

J.
-

HJMinard

5th of November 2004 (Fri), 21:14

When I press the enlargement button - the one beside the * - all focus points light up - does it mean all those points will be in focus?

Yes (sort of). That button allows you to choose which focus point you would like to use. If they all light up, that means you have chosen to have the camera use all the points to try and achieve focus. (Not really the same thing as saying that all will be "in focus".) Most of us, I believe use (primarily) the center focus point by itself - except for action shooting in AI Servo, in which case it's common to use them all.

Is it right that the focus confirmation light in the viewfinder does NOT light up when using Cfn 4-1?

No ... the confirmation light should still illuminate when in One Shot mode - but it does not illuminate in AI Servo. This is true regardless of whether CF4-1 is turned on or not.

DeeplyDigital

6th of November 2004 (Sat), 01:31

Jay,

less confused now.

Thank you

J.
-

drisley

6th of November 2004 (Sat), 02:45

I never thought about the exposure locking when in AI Servo mode.
I am going to give this method a try.

tim

29th of March 2005 (Tue), 17:53

I'm going to resurrect an old thread because it was just linked too.

As I understand it, the idea on this thread is to use * to focus, a shutter half press to lock the exposure, and a shutter full press to take the photo. The default on my 20D is to use * to lock the exposure, shutter half press to lock the focus, and shutter full press to take the photo. I must be missing something, because the only difference I see is swapping the function of two buttons. Anyone care to comment?

SkipD

29th of March 2005 (Tue), 18:08

I find using the * button for focussing is much better than trying to focus AND set the exposure with the shutter button. To me it makes all the sense in the world to separate the functions.

I grew up using manual cameras such as the Miranda F and, later, the Nikon F and Mamiya C-33. No meters, no motors of any type, etc. I did a lot of action photography with those old beauties. That meant manual focus for everything. What surprises me is that today nobody seems to even care that there is a focussing ring on the lens. While some of today's lenses have you turning the front element to focus, many have a conventional focussing ring and allow you to turn it even if the camera is in auto focus mode. Those are the ones I have, and I feel they are a good choice because of the ease of manual focussing. I can manually focus to follow action while letting the camera do its thing for exposure (as long as I teach it well). I do occasionally miss the split-image focus aid, but in reality I used to use a plain focussing screen most of the time anyhow.

tim

29th of March 2005 (Tue), 18:15

I find using the * button for focussing is much better than trying to focus AND set the exposure with the shutter button. To me it makes all the sense in the world to separate the functions.

My point was what's the problem with using the default, which is the * button to lock exposure?

No offense to you Skip or anyone, but there's no point everyone stating their preference, unless you have something new to add - which, Skip did, i'm just trying to prevent lots of "me too" responses.

SkipD

29th of March 2005 (Tue), 18:15

As I understand it, the idea on this thread is to use * to focus, a shutter half press to lock the exposure, and a shutter full press to take the photo. The default on my 20D is to use * to lock the exposure, shutter half press to lock the focus, and shutter full press to take the photo. I must be missing something, because the only difference I see is swapping the function of two buttons. Anyone care to comment?Tim - with the 20D custom function 4 set to a "1", the * button causes the camera to achieve auto focus. Let the button go, and the lens focus stays put. The auto exposure settings are achieved and locked by a half-press of the shutter button.

To me this makes a lot of sense because you may want to focus on a different part of the subject than you need to meter for exposure. This method allows you to do each function in automatic mode, but aiming at a different part of the subject when it is important to do so. With the setting changed, you always work the same way and don't have to remember how to lock the exposure for the relatively rare times you would want to do that.

CyberDyneSystems

29th of March 2005 (Tue), 18:19

My point was what's the problem with using the default?

One problem is there are times when you don't want to change focus,. 'cause your where you want to be,. now without CF# 4-1,.. I dare you to take a pic whithout changing focus...
The moment you touch that shutter,. AF goes to work and messes up your preset focus.

Using the * alleviates this,. and does so without you having to mess with the manual focus switch on the lens.

CyberDyneSystems

29th of March 2005 (Tue), 18:24

Tim,..

One last thing,. rather than asking us,. check out Arthur (my good freind "Arty" ) Morris' little story on the subject,.

And if you don't know who he is yet,. you may want to find out ;)

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28314

tim

29th of March 2005 (Tue), 18:24

Tim - with the 20D custom function 4 set to a "1", the * button causes the camera to achieve auto focus. Let the button go, and the lens focus stays put. The auto exposure settings are achieved and locked by a half-press of the shutter button.

To me this makes a lot of sense because you may want to focus on a different part of the subject than you need to meter for exposure. This method allows you to do each function in automatic mode, but aiming at a different part of the subject when it is important to do so. With the setting changed, you always work the same way and don't have to remember how to lock the exposure for the relatively rare times you would want to do that.

I don't mind holding the shutter half down, that keeps focus locked too. I preset the exposure by pointing the camera at what I want properly exposed first and pusing the * button.

One problem is there are times when you don't want to change focus,. 'cause your where you want to be,. now without CF# 4-1,.. I dare you to take a pic whithout changing focus...
The moment you touch that shutter,. AF goes to work and messes up your preset focus.

Using the * alleviates this,. and does so without you having to mess with the manual focus switch on the lens.

Same again, like I said above, lock exposure with the * button first, lock focus with a half press and hold, take the photo when i'm ready.

Still not seeing the advantage.

tim

29th of March 2005 (Tue), 18:29

CyberDyneSystems

29th of March 2005 (Tue), 18:30

What kind of shooting do you do Tim,.. I find it's most helpfull for high speed action,. but not exclusively.

Also,. when you say "still not seeing a difference" .. are you saying theoretically,. as in trying to grasp it in your head,. or are you actually trying it?

'cause we can sit here and talk about it for days and never accomplish anything more than burning up bandwidth...

If you want to actually try it though,. then I'd suggest you need to give it at least a 2 weeks of solid shooting before making any assesments.

It's hard to "unlearn what you have learned" ;)

If your not willing to give it that amount of time,. then we might as well stop this discussion here. ;)

tim

29th of March 2005 (Tue), 18:34

I shoot a bit of everything, but not sports.

Basically, as I read it, you're just swapping the function of the shutter and * buttons, swapping the exposure lock and focus lock buttons. I'm just not seeing the point of that.

Will read that article in a while, bit busy right now.

SkipD

29th of March 2005 (Tue), 18:42

Basically, as I read it, you're just swapping the function of the shutter and * buttons, swapping the exposure lock and focus lock buttons. I'm just not seeing the point of that.Tim, setting the function 4 to "1" doesn't just swap the buttons' functions. It totally removes the focus function from the shutter button. Like I said above, when you get used to using the * button for focus and the shutter button for exposure ALL THE TIME, there's nothing to remember to separate the functions.

Many photographers want full automatic operation of their SLRs, just as if they had a point-n-shoot. Others, including yours truly, like to work in a more controlled semi-manual mode. The custom function makes it easier for me to work this way. If I get into a rapidly changing environment, such as photographing European style automobile racing, I would lean towards manual focussing while letting the camera do the exposures. In this case, I just wouldn't be pressing the * button and would be using the focus ring on the lens.

tim

29th of March 2005 (Tue), 19:43

I see how it's helpful for you Skip, with manual focus, but I still don't see the gain for others. The aim seems to have independant control over exposure and focus, on seperate buttons. By default, you have that, you just press the * button to lock exposure, and the shutter button to lock focus. The only gain I can see is not having to hold the shutter button down. I must be missing something, i'm trying to discover what that something is.

Must go read that article some time soon, at work and a bit busy to read a big block of text right now.

ScottE

29th of March 2005 (Tue), 20:52

If you don't see any point to relegating autofocus to the * button, don't do it. Many of us find it the most functional way to use the camera.

Most of the time I have my camera set with autofocus on the * button and autofocus mode on AI Servo. That way I have an instant choice between AF modes. If I want One Shot, I just point the centre sensor at where I want autofocus to be and press the * button once. That locks focus on that point and I can recompose without worrying about holding the shutter half way down. If the subject starts to move, I can just hold the * button down and immediately I am in AI Servo mode. I also have manual focus immediately available at all times when using USM lenses by just not touching the * button and focusing manually. Again there is no inconvenience of having to hold the shutter half down while recomposing or waiting for the subject to show some emotion or for the light to be just right.

The only time I don't use AF on the * button is when I am taking sports shots in the winter when it is very cold. When the hands are cold and the gloves are thick it is sometimes difficult to coordinate the action of thumb on the * and index finger on the shutter.

Other than that I do not understand why anyone would use any other setup.

Perhaps people who have grown up with auto focus camera have different habits from us old geezers who spent most of our lives with manual focus.

Scott

tim

29th of March 2005 (Tue), 20:57

If you don't see any point to relegating autofocus to the * button, don't do it. Many of us find it the most functional way to use the camera.

Given the enthuiasm people have for this, i'm just trying to work out what i'm missing that makes it so special. Not having to hold the shutter button down could be handy for theatre work, perhaps, i'll have to try it. I'll practice at home a bit and see how I get on with it.

CyberDyneSystems

29th of March 2005 (Tue), 21:01

Two weeks,.. in the feild,.

Not at home,. not discussing it or contemplating it!

Now go grasshopper! :lol:

tim

29th of March 2005 (Tue), 21:07

I have a theatre rehersal to shoot Thursday, i'd be hesitant to try it out on that, even though it's not critical... I fear i'd end up with about half my shots out of focus. Maybe i'll give it a bit of a go then and see if I like it... if so... good... if not... nothing lost :)

picture-this

29th of March 2005 (Tue), 21:27

It's great, but sometimes when using a a lens with lots of depth of field I forget to hit the focus button.

nat869

29th of March 2005 (Tue), 21:31

I made the switch to the focus as my * button. At first I was reluctant, then when I first read this thread several months ago, I tried it out. I definitely can not imagine using the camera any other way, it has been extremely useful.

juneappal

29th of March 2005 (Tue), 21:42

The aim seems to have independant control over exposure and focus, on seperate buttons. By default, you have that, you just press the * button to lock exposure, and the shutter button to lock focus.

Hmmmm....

In many situations, I find that I am taking multiple shots of a subject at some small distance. The difference between successive shots is usually one of timing, not of focus or aperture - waiting for that little boy to drop the ice-cream cone on the squirrel or whatnot. I also may play around with slightly different in-camera cropping - aim left to remove the exhibitionist from the background.

In these photos both the aperture and the focus should remain constant. The light reading probably will not change when the boy leans over or I crop out pee-wee herman. The precise spot my AF point is on might. Since I don't want the AF to change, I prefer to not have it re-evaluated every time I am halfway through a shutter click. I don't care if the light reading is taken over because most likely it will come out the same.

That said, I have never actually had a camera that allowed this. I was writing in first person because it is easier. Those of you who do use * for AF - Is this more or less why?

topaz

30th of March 2005 (Wed), 03:58

I tried CF4-1 for several weeks and then went back to CF4-0.

It seemed like the same independence of exposure & focus could be achieved under CF4-0, and I was making fewer mistakes under CF4-0. I think it's an ergonomics question, having to do with how often you expect to lock exposure & focus separately. For me, 90% of the time, I want to lock focus & exposure simultaneously (I'm a heavy user of non-center focus points so I don't usually have to recompose purely for focus reasons). I think whoever invented the default mechanism was pretty smart in terms of ergonomics, though CF4-1 is also a very nice arrangement. Under CF4-0 and one-shot focus here's what I do:

1) Release shutter, half-press, and hold when AF point is on my target.
2) If I want exposure based on a different composition, then recompose
& hit the * button.
5) Repeat 1 & 2 as necessary, and finally press shutter fully.

Note that the order of #2 and #1 can be reversed if I want to lock exposure first. I think this lets me control exposure & focus just as independently as CF4-1. But for the very frequent case where I don't need to recompose, it involves fewer button presses (and hence results in fewer mistakes). In CF4-1, I was finding myself simply having to half-press the shutter & the * button, one right after the other, for ALL my shots.

Two disadvantages of CF4-0:
1) I think CyberDyneSystems' point about locking focus across successive
shots is correct. If I needed to do this more often I would probably
go back to CF4-1; as it is, I turn on manual focus to achieve this.
2) I miss the neat AI-Servo mode behavior where you can tap the * button
to get one-shot-like focus lock, or hold the * button to get continuous
tracking. I liked this technique, but finally decided I really missed
hearing the AF confirmation beep in true one-shot mode, so I decided to
live without this benefit.

Aside from the two points I listed above, are there any other operations that simply can't be done in CF4-0?

tim

30th of March 2005 (Wed), 04:06

I had a little play with my camera this evening in CF4-1. I can see how for action it could be helpful, and maybe even very beneficial once you get used to it. For most of what I do I don't think it'll give me any significant advantage. I might try it for my theatre shoot tomorrow and see how it goes.

Mills

30th of March 2005 (Wed), 08:02

I missed this the first time around. Seems logical though. Off to the testing ground.

RTMiller

31st of March 2005 (Thu), 12:01

davidwegs

31st of March 2005 (Thu), 12:17

Been using this method since I got the 1DMk2. Once you ahve fully adjusted to it (which takes time and patience) the feature is of endless benefit. I have shot 35mm for 20 years and this is the first Major change (save TTL) that has met with applause from me at least.

Chazs

31st of March 2005 (Thu), 13:54

...I fear i'd end up with about half my shots out of focus....

This fear was turned into reality for me a few weeks ago. I had stopped the car to take a photo of a bald eagle sitting on fence post. He took off and headed straight at me; passed 5 ft over my head (geez, they're HUGE, and their wings are loud). In the excitement my fingers forgot to hit the * button. Dang, out of focus. I switched back to Normal mode for a day because of the missed shot, but realized I was already on my why to really like the focus on the * button. Like everyone says, it takes a few weeks to make it second nature.

Also, Tim, I did a theater shoot a few weeks back (childrens ballet) and really saw the usefulness of the * button. In low light the AF went all whacky. Using *, I could set the focus. Even when the camera shut down, it would power up at the same focus. A quick refocus just took a press of the * button. Clean and simple.

CyberDyneSystems

31st of March 2005 (Thu), 14:07

I think I can see value to this method so I am going to give it a try. But can someone please clarify the difference between the three variations of this custom function as it pertains to exposure. The manual has me scatching my head. Is the following correct...

C.Fn-04-1... Focus will be locked when I press the * button and exposure will be locked when I press the shutter down half way. If I take a burst of pictures, they will all have the same exposure.

C.Fn-04-3... Focus will be locked when I press the * button and exposure will be locked when I press the shutter down all the way. If I take a burst of pictures, they will each have the exposure the camera reads at the moment the picture is taken.

This is a little confusing but in the end I think it is going rank in importance right up there with the day I started shooting RAW.

This is exactly correct.

At first blush,. it looks as if CF# 4 set to 3 makes the most sense,.. but really only for tracking fast movig objects is this true,. I found quickly that I could not live without CF #4 set to 1....

I do switch to 4-3 every once in a while though, but rarely because even when shooting high speed I tend to NOT use burst,. but rather trip the shuuter manually every time,.. this gives me the opportunity to re-meter simply by releasing the shutter further.

tim

31st of March 2005 (Thu), 14:30

I tried it last night, it works quite well for action shots, when people are moving around a lot, and you want to recompose or wait for just the right moment to take the shot. For most of the shots I used the usual button layout. I'll keep playing with it over the next few weeks and see how it goes.

For portrait orientation, I think it'd be a lot easier with a grip.

ScottE

31st of March 2005 (Thu), 14:34

drisley

31st of March 2005 (Thu), 15:50

I switched to the * button for focusing about 4 months ago, and I will never go back.
It gives SO much more control, and allows fulltime manual focus with any lens.
Also, the MOST important thing is that now my exposures are accurate!
Using the shutter button half press would cause the camera to meter at the start, and then when I finally got around to taking the shot, the position may have changed a lot, and the exposure as well. For sports shooting, * button focusing is a MUST.

KennyG

31st of March 2005 (Thu), 16:03

Can't be used if you have to wear gloves, common in some countries. Also, I found it unuseable for heavy action work.

drisley

31st of March 2005 (Thu), 16:54

I live in the coldest country in the world, and I use the * button all the time, and for all types of sports.

Caveman2

9th of April 2005 (Sat), 12:55

Howdy folks, and particularly Tim who also does some stage photography,

This is my second or third post and I'm brand new to Canon EOS, digital, and auto focus- my first digital camera is the D20. Many thanks to the list for this well discussed tip thread! Looking forward to others now.

You may want to see my first under the "first impressions and review" thread to get some idea of how new to this I am and what I'm doing right now. Tim, I don't know you or practically anybody here, so please consider my newness here. I'm not aware of your experience, just would like to share mine with you.

So for the first time last night, I set the camera so that focus is on the * and went to a coffee house to photograph musicians. This gives me a safe practice time before shooting stage shots of more professional performers under similar conditions.

Since I'm not used to using fingers and thumbs for anything specific on this camera (had it about two weeks), I found it easy to use the thumb for focusing. It has increased my "keepers" quite a bit. Now if there is any blurred images it is due to slow shutter speeds instead of focus problems! PERIOD!:D This wonderful tip has, so far, really paid off for me! I was using the * button for exposure lock, but iI was getting many slightly out of focus photos using the shutter for the focus lock.

At this point I would find using the * to focus being better for some shooting very difficult to explain, but it is working great for stage lighting and moving performers for me.

Other info to go with this:
ISO 1,600 (cleaner than 3,200 so I'm sort of saving 3,200 for special needs), F4.5 - 5 lenses mostly wide open at shutter speeds of 1/20 to 1/100, mostly slower speeds. Use a Bogan monopod. Getting sharper images all the time as I climb the learning curve. Exposure is great.

I'll look for a monopod thread, it helps a lot. It arrived yesterday and that was a first too.

Maybe since I'm not used to autofocus, it is easier for me to get used to or see the difference using the * button.;)

I hesitate to say that it's perfect for all shooting (would appear to be good to great for a lot at this point to me), but it is a very definite improvement in this kind of shooting (for me). I wil probably use it for sports and wildlife.

Tim, you may want to toggle your way through a session using it with the * instead of the shutter, or at least for a few shots.

Many thanks!:D

CyberDyneSystems

9th of April 2005 (Sat), 13:27

Cavemen,. your point about having started out with * focus is a strong one. It is allways hardest to adopt anything that asks for a change of habit,. especially where reflexes are concerned.

Any D70 owners out there?
I ask as every Nikon 35mm I ever used focused with a button on the back of the Camera,. so I allways assumed this was simply how Noinks focused out of the box.

If this is so,. this is one thing that Noink does "right" and Canon does not.

tim

9th of April 2005 (Sat), 16:59

I'm shooting another rehersal today, it's and ideal opportunity to play with the * button I think. A guy who works at a camera store's also bringing along a monopod for me to try, so between them i'll hope for even sharper photos.

tim

10th of April 2005 (Sun), 06:38

Well I tried it today for a 6 hour rehersal, and I liked it! Unfortunately though my photos came out quite soft, i'm still trying to work out what I was doing wrong, but oh well. I'm not sure if i'll keep using it or switch back to normal, but it was definitely worth trying out.

trevor51590

10th of April 2005 (Sun), 08:19

Ok maybe im missing something and someone can help me. Im using the 300d with the undutchables hack. It has the custom funcions. 0 is af/ae lock 1 is aw lock/af 2 isaf/af lock, no ae lock 3 is ae/af, no ae lock. when i put it to 1, and i hit the * button, it doesnt focus. help please!

dsze

10th of April 2005 (Sun), 09:21

I've been playing with this method for a couple weeks now and am liking it. Its no problem to get used to. The only problem I've had is with moving subjects; getting the latency between my thumb and shutter to fast enough with moving subjects.

-daniel

CyberDyneSystems

10th of April 2005 (Sun), 13:29

tim

10th of April 2005 (Sun), 13:57

The only problem I've had is with moving subjects; getting the latency between my thumb and shutter to fast enough with moving subjects.

Keep your thumb on the * button and your finder on the shutter button all the time, I do, and it's not a problem.

slin100

10th of April 2005 (Sun), 14:28

I'm a * button convert, but I only fully converted after getting a battery grip. The strain on the hand is too much when shooting vertical shots.

FatPete

22nd of April 2005 (Fri), 12:19

Only discovered this thread today, and was a bit dubious about how I'd adapt to the idea, but it makes a lot of sense.

Reminds me a lot of when I had a manual-focus camera - focus point on the subject, focus, re-compose and shoot. Only this time the focusing is done by a separate button instead of manually, and using the shutter release doesn't mess it up.

I also got a remote release today, and CF4 is great for this. You can use * to focus etc, then use the remote-release whenever you like without affecting the focus.

It's going to take a while to adapt (even when experimenting I kept forgetting about pressing *, but I'm going to persevere...)

Kadath

22nd of April 2005 (Fri), 12:36

I became a convert after watching this in action at the Canon travelling show that came to Jersey this week.

JSolie

22nd of April 2005 (Fri), 13:45

I've been focusing with * for a couple of weeks now. About the only problem I had was when my wife went to take a picture, and couldn't get it to focus :shock: "Honey, I told you to focus with the star button..." :rolleyes:

I do find that I'm getting more keepers now that I've switched.

-- John

SkipD

22nd of April 2005 (Fri), 14:43

I converted to the CF4-1 setting a few weeks ago and wouldn't go back. However, I have found a few times where I had to re-position my hand slightly to get my thumb on the * button.

Today I finally installed my hand strap, though, and found that the extra support of the hand strap makes it really easy to move my thumb into place anytime I want to. I highly recommend the use of a hand strap on the 20D (you have to have the grip mounted).

It took me a while to be able to decode the pictorial installation instructions. Canon saved a bundle of cash by not printing any words along with their pictorial instructions. The installation instructions for the hand strap, by the way, are published on the grip instruction sheet.

CyberDyneSystems

22nd of April 2005 (Fri), 18:39

Look at all the new converts!

I also got a remote release today, and CF4 is great for this. You can use * to focus etc, then use the remote-release whenever you like without affecting the focus.

You know,. I love this aspect,. but it never even occured to me that you need CF 4-1 to take advantage,. I just got so used to it I thought that's how things are ...

Great point mentioning this.

TammieO

22nd of April 2005 (Fri), 21:32

Thanks everyone. I tried CF4-1 for a day and I really like it!

markubig

22nd of April 2005 (Fri), 21:41

Thanks everyone. I tried CF4-1 for a day and I really like it!
I have been trying this too and it's working for me. I also love CF13-1. Picking the AF points instead of scrolling through them is awesome!!!

Thanks all for these tips!!!

tim

22nd of April 2005 (Fri), 23:28

CF4-1 can be great, but it gives me a hell of a sore arm after while shooting with the camera sideways (ie portrait photos). Maybe a grip would help a bit?

Tapeman

24th of April 2005 (Sun), 15:49

I have been using it since I bought my 1vHS ( 4-5 years). About the only time that don't have it set up is when I give the camera to someone else to shoot.

Willie

26th of April 2005 (Tue), 11:28

How do these compare to the 350D custom functions? Are they the same, there are 3 settings on my camera. The first CF4-1 puts focus lock on * and exposure on shutter release. The other 2 I'm not sure about the difference. I am using CF4-3. This allows the * to lock focus or track focus if I hold it down. No exposure lock it is set when shutter trips. I mostly take pics of my kids running around. Is this the right setting, or even better setting in this situation, and is it the same as the CF you are talking about (on the 1 series I assume)?

Regards,
Willie

Jon

26th of April 2005 (Tue), 12:33

It's the same. Canon's kept CF 4 to that on most of the EOS DSLRs (it's CF 2, however, on the D60).

Blue Deuce

23rd of May 2005 (Mon), 16:12

I guess I am just mentally challenged on this issue. If I understand all the previous posts correctly setting the camera to cf 4-1 enables you to focus with the * button. Well I am having no such luck with the * or the shutter button focusing in this mode. If some one will be patient enough could this be explained to me in simple practical terms.

I always thought I was slow but not stupid.

tim

23rd of May 2005 (Mon), 16:14

bromeliads, it really is as simple as setting CF4 to 1, putting your lens on AF, point the camera at something, and pusing the * button to focus. Once you're focused, hit the shutter button to take the photo.

Blue Deuce

23rd of May 2005 (Mon), 16:21

Thats what I thought Tim but if I purposely have a object out of focus and push the * button nothing happens. I am using a 20d and 28-135mm.

tim

23rd of May 2005 (Mon), 16:22

Thats what I thought Tim but if I purposely have a object out of focus and push the * button nothing happens. I am using a 20d and 28-135mm.

Check the lens is on AF, and see what happens if you press the shutter button - does it focus then?

Blue Deuce

23rd of May 2005 (Mon), 16:37

on af but nothing happens.

tim

23rd of May 2005 (Mon), 16:39

I'm stumped, it was trivial for me to get it working by changing one CF, hopefully someone else can help you out.

jscotti

23rd of May 2005 (Mon), 17:36

I don't think I'll be of any more help than Tim was - I tried out my 20D using CF4-1 (I had been on CF4-3 lately) and my camera worked just as TIm suggested, with the lens in AF mode (not MF) press the * button and it focuses, press and hold the shutter button halfway and the AE locks. Do you have a 2nd lens to try - maybe the AF/MF switch on the lens is broken? If I have the lens set in MF mode, it will not auto focus - similar to what you describe. I hope it's one of those D'Oh! things and you'll be back in business soon. Another check - if CF4-0 is set, does it autofocus when you press the shutter halfway?

Good luck....

Jim.

DavidEB

23rd of May 2005 (Mon), 19:37

I think (not sure, as I'm new to my 20D) that you have to put the camera in shooting mode by touching the shutter button lightly before the * will activate focus with CF4-1. I know that if I turn the camera on and press * before touching the shutter button, nothing happens.

Blue Deuce

23rd of May 2005 (Mon), 20:35

Thanks for ya'lls help but it dont seem to be working correctly. Switched lens's,ensured it was in AF and tried it again. When I press the * button the af point I want to pick lights up but focus is not achieved. When I depress the shutter button half way the camera then focuses. Guess I will have to take it to my local camera shop to have them give it a look-see.

tim

23rd of May 2005 (Mon), 20:51

If the shutter button still focuses it's almost certianly user error over the way the camera's set up. If someone looks at it in person they'll probably spot the mistake pretty quickly.

Blue Deuce

23rd of May 2005 (Mon), 20:54

At this point I hope I take it in, the guy gets it to work and gives me a dumb stare.

Lotto

24th of May 2005 (Tue), 01:07

At this point I hope I take it in, the guy gets it to work and gives me a dumb stare.

Any chance you didn't hit the SET button after you sellect 4-1?

Huckaback Photo

24th of May 2005 (Tue), 11:27

Since I changed to the * button for focus I have noticed an increese in the number of sharp pictures I get.
only problem area is if I shoot candid grab shots from the waist or above the heads of a crowd.
as mentioned it takes some time to get used to it, but is worth doing.
great fun to give someone the camera to use, as they dont know how to focus it, couple that with my eyesight correction & their totally confused.
for that reason I prefer to keep my 1D mk 2 in my own hands.

Martin (Huckaback Photo)

jscotti

24th of May 2005 (Tue), 17:49

One other thing that just occured to me - you are in one of the creative zones rather than one of the basic zones for shooting, right? The basic zones override some of these settings. I generally shoot in Av mode which CF4-1 works fine in. Any of the modes A-DEP, M, Av, Tv or P will make use of the altered use of the * button defined by CF4-1.

Jim.

Blue Deuce

24th of May 2005 (Tue), 18:05

I am in basic mode. Usually AV. Have resolved myself that it has to be the camera and not me. Have been too methodical trying to narrow down what I might have missed.

jscotti

24th of May 2005 (Tue), 18:18

I am in basic mode. Usually AV. Have resolved myself that it has to be the camera and not me. Have been too methodical trying to narrow down what I might have missed.
Well, I had to ask just to be sure... Whenever you resolve the problem, let us know the solution, just in case there is a camera mode or combination of modes or settings that has gotten you. It's sure sounding more and more like you'll have to send the camera in to repair or replace....

Jim.

EricKonieczny

24th of May 2005 (Tue), 19:24

I have had an epiphany today on using this custom function.

It also helps I am testing it out on my new 70-200 2.8 IS. :lol:

Dirty Shirt

24th of May 2005 (Tue), 20:30

I got my 20D setup for this and I think I like it. I only did a couple of test shots but so far so good. Great thread!

BigRed450

24th of May 2005 (Tue), 21:17

My 10D has been set up like this for over a year and my 1DmkII has been set up the same from the time the battery first went in. I love it and find it works best for all occassions including still lifes.. I see no advantage in switching back and forth between the * button and the shutter button.

markubig

24th of May 2005 (Tue), 22:43

WaveRider57

25th of May 2005 (Wed), 06:53

Well, I'm always game for improving workflow (or snap-flow) so I'm going to use for the rest of the week before making up my mind.

Thanks, guys!

robekert

25th of May 2005 (Wed), 15:59

I used the (*) method for over 8 months. I have since gone back to the shutter button method. It just feels more comfortable to me. I have not seen any change in my images.

The other reason that I changed is I find myself using the cable release attachment for my landscape shots. You cannot have the camera set to focus using the (*) button and use the cable release. It was just too much to remember and reconfigure to the next set of custom functions.

Happy for all who are users of this method. I did not find it the "Be all end all" it is sometimes portrayed as.
Cheers,
Rob

oloughlinc

25th of May 2005 (Wed), 17:12

I got the 20D yesterday, found this thread last night, set it for 4-1, and took a lot of softball pictures today. Even after having used the shutter button exclusively on the 300D, it only took the first few shots to use the * button for focus without having to think about it. I love this setup, and thank those who so convincingly argued that this should be the default setting; I totally agree.
Thanks again!

Southswede

25th of May 2005 (Wed), 18:11

Wow! I stumbled onto this thread too. I'm going to give 4-1 a serious try, this weekend. Who needs an owners manual, when you have the internet?

tim

25th of May 2005 (Wed), 18:18

Who needs an owners manual, when you have the internet?

Everyone! ;) If you're lucky Bob will even give you the page number of the information you need :p

HelenThura

25th of May 2005 (Wed), 18:59

it's only been a pain for me when i give my camera to someone else to take a picture that I will be in. I have to explain that the * is the AF and then depress the shutter (i don't bother explaining what to meter). for the smarter friends, I explain how they can choose an AF point and just ask them to choose the one that's closest to my face.

I had struggled with this too, normally changing the custom function back to normal, though I discovered yesterday that if if you change the program dial to auto or one of the basic modes it changes the focus back to the "traditional" method. of course the only problem with is the fact that you loose control over the settings.

bachscuttler

14th of June 2005 (Tue), 13:21

I switched to 4-1 as soon as I got home after reading this thread.
I also noticed that if you are in AF Servo mode, holding down the * button allows the servo to still work and locks as soon as you release it

CyberDyneSystems

14th of June 2005 (Tue), 14:10

The other reason that I changed is I find myself using the cable release attachment for my landscape shots. You cannot have the camera set to focus using the (*) button and use the cable release. It was just too much to remember and reconfigure to the next set of custom functions.

I actually love the * focus combined with cable release...

Otherwise every time I press the cable release I am running the risk of the camera deciding to refocus.. incorrectly.

Wiht 4-1 I can set my focus and then keep tapping the cable release as I need to with the camera allways focused just as I want it.

CyberDyneSystems

14th of June 2005 (Tue), 14:11

Rob612

15th of June 2005 (Wed), 01:03

I went trough all the thread with a lot of interest, and I believe that I will give it a try, it sounds very interesting. But I do have a question (can't try by myself until I get home tonite). If I am not going wrong, CF4-x is to be retained only in creative modes, right ? I mean, if I hand the camera to my wife in one of the auto modes available (she's not too much into it, so I have usually her shooting in one of the auto modes) she will have the camera actually WITHOUT the separate focus button, right ? If I switch back to one of the creative modes - that's what I use normally, as everybody else here - I'll find the CF4-x again. Or am I missing something ?

tacos3

17th of June 2005 (Fri), 12:01

I switched to 4-1* about 2 months ago and love it. My only problem is when I give my camera to someone to shoot a picture, I have change it back. It takes too long to explain to someone how it works than to change it back. I took me about a day to get used to it and I've never looked back.

Andy_T

17th of June 2005 (Fri), 12:03

Tacos .... same here :wink:

Still, I find it a bit difficult with fast moving subjects (like my little son deciding to run towards me to do some chimping) ... but that's most likely because I don't normally use servo or AI servo.

Best regards,
Andy

RTMiller

17th of June 2005 (Fri), 12:12

When I hand my 20D to someone else, I usually just switch to full auto (green square). That automatically puts the focus back on the shutter button. When I get the camera back, even if I forget to switch back to the creative zones, the minute I press the shutter down and it focuses, I know something is wrong and switch zones.

CyberDyneSystems

17th of June 2005 (Fri), 12:32

As for the "hand off" .. I have found that pointing out the * button is for focusing works well (thus far)

If anyone asks or complains about it,. I usually just say "it's because it's a Pro Camera" and suddenly they want to use the * button much more! ;)

tacos3

17th of June 2005 (Fri), 12:49

Good point RT. I'll have to try that. Most of the time that I hand the camera over to someone, they usually think that shutter speed is how fast you can close the wooden blinds on the front of the house. That sounds like a simple way to let the camera do the thinking when the situation presents itself....

Darren

R1 Kid

17th of June 2005 (Fri), 12:52

You mean you actually hand over your camera into the care of another human? haha Just kidding...Well, sort of...

malla1962

17th of June 2005 (Fri), 16:22

THINK I WILL HAVE TO GIVE THIS ONE A GO.

jarod

17th of June 2005 (Fri), 22:48

I read through this whole thread, but I'm still not sure if this would be beneficial for me. I shoot mainly non-moving objects (models) in one-shot mode. How would setting the focus lock on * help? I also read a lot of people find their images are sharper after changing to this. I don't see how this is possible either. I tried a few shots earlier and I don't notice the shutter button locking exposure. Can someone provide a sample scenario in my type of situation (shooting models)?