DSLR user wants pocketable compact

[Tim S]

I'm looking for something I can slip into a pocket for kid's field trips. I need ISO 1600, prefer at least 6x optical zoom, and a big max aperture. Is $300 enough to get what I want? Is the shutter lag bad on these new compacts? :rolleyes:

[sadatk]

ISO1600 won't be very good on any point and shoot save for the Sigma DP1.

The DP1 is a fixed focal length though with a somewhat small aperture.

[Tim S]

I realize the small sensor and 1600 are a compromise. Prints would be 4x6 max.

[HaroldC3]

Might look at the a650 IS but I think you have some high expectations.

[sadatk]

Check out the Fujis. F31fd. F50fd.

[Alexajlex]

The new Olympus E420.
Very very compact and full of features.
Also it is a true DSLR not a PS.

[Alexajlex]

Ah I just saw the $300 price.
The E420 is around $500.

[JustShootin']

I think you have some high expectations.

Very high indeed. I wish I could help, but it seems you want SLR features in a $300 compact. Ain't gonin' to happen.

Gary

[Reinheim]

Tim, I just purchased the Canon Powershot A590IS for use similar to what you state. It has 1600 ISO, Image Stabilization, lens to f 2.6, and uses AA batteries, and can accomodate a 4 gb card. I am quite impressed with it. It has, however, only a 4x optical zoom, but for $179 tops, it is quite a camera. Perhaps you can try one out - they seem to be availabe pretty much everywhere. For a good review check out Steve's Digicam review on it. Good luck on your quest. Joe Tiemann - Reinheim

[binliner]

I'd say the Powershot A650 IS but my powershot A640 is very noisy above ISO400

[DStanic]

Very high indeed. I wish I could help, but it seems you want SLR features in a $300 compact. Ain't gonin' to happen.

Gary

Agreed. I just moved up from a Sony H5 superzoom 7.2mp camera with maximum ISO1000 (I think a 2006 model, so not very old). Simply put, ISO1600 on my XTi looks way better than ISO400 on the P&S. I don't know about newer/better P&S sensors, might be OK at ISO400 or slightly higher.

[cdifoto]

I'm looking for something I can slip into a pocket for kid's field trips. I need ISO 1600, prefer at least 6x optical zoom, and a big max aperature. Is $300 enough to get what I want? Is the shutter lag bad on these new compacts? :rolleyes:

Be realistic. You can get most of that, but it won't be pocketable and it won't be cheap.

Compromise a bit if you're hell bent on pocketing it. I'm still in the honeymoon phase since I only received the camera 3 days ago, but I'm enjoying the Fuji F40fd very much. If you go to BeachCamera.com and grab it before the 31st of this month, you can get a $50 rebate on it...that brings the price down to a bargain $129.

It does ISO1600 (but it's not as clean as a dSLR, obviously), but has 3x zoom instead of 6x like you want. Max aperture is f/2.8 at the wide but the long end is mediocre at f/5.1. Shutter lag isn't bad at all, but you won't be using it, or any other compact, for sports.

No manual modes, but a great Program mode. Manual is a pain in the but on 99% of compacts due to ergonomics anyway. Has Exposure Compensation (through a menu though, :mad:) but a dedicated button can get you there right away if it's the last menu selection you made. Not fast, but not tedious.

It doesn't say it supports SDHC on websites, but Fuji put out a firmware 1.1 update that gives it SDHC capability. I updated it the day I got it and put an 8GB card in it without issue.

Two huge pluses over the A series are that it's not as fat (easily slips into a front pocket) and the screen is a pleasure to use. Downside is it uses battery packs instead of AAs, but they're cheap on eBay and get about 300 shots each.

I took this pic with it yesterday: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=472880

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a304/cdifoto/fuji/2008-03-20-009.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a304/cdifoto/fuji/2008-03-20-011.jpg

[mot]

what you expect from ISO 1600 ? execptatble or good quality ?

[lakiluno]

ISO above 400 on my A570IS is terrible. It does 1600, but it makes the photo look like it was taken in a snow storm.

[kcp1377]

You could also look at the A720. It's got a great price tag ($170), 6x optical zoom, ISO 1600, f2.8, small size. It's got great IQ too - for a P&S. I agree about not being able to truly use the 1600 though. It's really noisy.

[audiobomber]

I agree, the A720 is one to look at. This pro selected it as his DSLR backup. http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/canon_powershot-a720is_review.html

Regarding shutter speed on compacts, you have to make sure you pre-focus (depress shutter button halfway to give camera a chance to focus). If you do that, it's not bad.

[Tim S]

Very high indeed. I wish I could help, but it seems you want SLR features in a $300 compact. Ain't gonin' to happen.

Gary
Actually, I don't. I already have two DSLR's and a film SLR. I'm looking for something small with a nice zoom. The features I listed are similar to the SX100 IS, I believe. I was hoping for input from someone using this type of camera, my current P&S is a Sony DSC75 with an f/2 Zeiss lens. It's not a bad camara but the shutter lag is horrible.

Thanks Reiheim, you seem to be the only one who understood my post.

I am not using this for sports (look at my signature), this is for indoor, kid related stuff. Noise in a 4 x 6 print at ISO 1600 will not be a problem for me(acceptable).

[audiobomber]

Thanks Reiheim, you seem to be the only one who understood my post.

Clearly you didn't read the link I posted. Here's an excerpt. It sounds pretty much like what you were asking, no?

I was recently looking for a small, pocketable digicam to serve as a backup for my DSLR system. I wanted something with full manual control of shutter speed and aperture (and manual focus if possible), something capable of shooting in low light (which means an image stabilized lens and high ISO capability), a decent zoom range, good image quality and a reasonable price.


As I described in another article (http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/Powershot_a570is_a650is_a720is.html), I decided to go with a Canon Powershot A720is based on the specs as listed below:

Manual exposure mode
Av exposure mode
Tv exposure mode
Manual focus mode
Manual flash power control (3 steps)
Exposure compensation +/- 2 stops in 1/3 stop steps
Flash exposure control +/2 2 stops in 1/3 stop steps
35-210mm (equiv), 6x zoom lens
Shutter speeds from 15s to 1/2000s
8MP CMOS sensor
Optical stabilization system good for 3 stops increased stability
ISO settings from 80 to 1600
Pocketable size
Price under $200So although ISO 1600 images are noisy and details are soft when compared to shots at ISO 80, they are far from useless as long as you stick to small prints. The images below are 25% crops from the original image. On a typical monitor (17" 1280x1024 resolution) they will represent section from a prints that is maybe 5"x7"

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/canon_powershot-a720is_review.html

[Tim S]

Audiobomber-
I did in fact read the link you posted, however it was after I had posted. I'm sorry I didn't repost to thank you also. The A720IS and the SX100IS are the two Canon models I am interested in. Do you have any experience with either model?

[audiobomber]

Audiobomber-
I did in fact read the link you posted, however it was after I had posted. I'm sorry I didn't repost to thank you also. The A720IS and the SX100IS are the two Canon models I am interested in. Do you have any experience with either model?

Thanks. What struck me about the Bob Atkins review was how closely it paralled your wish list.

I read the reviews and handled the SX100, but I chose the A720. The differences that favored the 720 were size, cost, viewfinder and capacity for adding convertors (zoom, macro, wide angle). The SX100 has a popup flash, but the 720 flash is slightly more powerful. The optical viewfinder was crucial for me. Sometimes you just can't see well enough on a screen. I took a photo using the OVF yesterday because I couldn't see the LCD in the bright sun. I find the OVF gives me more detail (e.g. facial expression). And of course holding the camera to your eye gives better stability, which is especially important when zooming. The only significant advantage I can see for the SX100 is zoom, but that can be a biggie depending on your needs and preferences.

I was looking for a dslr-like camera that was highly portable, and the A720 was the closest thing I could find.

[ldw6559]

Sorry, I really don't know of any pocketable cameras with your dimensions, but if you find one let me know as I will definately buy it! I think I would go with the new Elf series with IS.

[Tim S]

audiobomber-
I'm pretty convinced the A720 IS will be great for what I want. Have you used ISO 1600? I'm thinking it will probably be OK for 4 x 6 prints, but others have said "it's unusable".

[JC4]

Here's a quick test shot using my sx100 at iso-1600. Its a bit underexposed, but I made no corrections, so its a valid test shots.
First image is right out of the camera, just resized. Second was run through NoiseWare Pro, then resized. It should give you and idea how a 4x6 print will look. I think its usable. Not great, but better than missing a shot entirely.

FYI: This was hand held at 1/15th, and zoomed to 18mm.

[JC4]

Didn't think with the first post, and already trashed the file. So, I snapped it again, to get 100% crops before & after NoiseWare. 1/13th now, since light was lower.

[audiobomber]

I believe these are resized to 5x7 (that's what they measure on my screen anyway).
ISO 80, tripod mount, Tv 3.2s, Av 3.5, Focal length 17.2mm, Tungsten wb.
ISO 1600, tripod mount, Tv 1/6s, Av 3.5, Focal length 17.2mm, Tungsten wb.

[audiobomber]

ISO 1600, handheld, Tv 1/15s, Av 3.5, Focal length 17.2mm, Tungsten wb.
ISO 1600, handheld, Tv 1/15s, Av 3.5, Focal length 14.7mm, Tungsten wb, Vivid colour mode.

[audiobomber]

I was just thinking, these would look better printed at 5x7 than they would on a monitor wouldn't they? I think my screen is 120 dpi, and photo quality is 300 dpi?

I exported these images at 1152 x 864 pixels, but they're changed to 1024 x 768 here. Not sure why or what effect it has.

[JC4]

Print it and see. I find resizing to 1024 viewing on screen, and printing 4x6 show about the same amount of noise and detail. Thats why I posted that size. But, monitors and printers vary.

I think the A720 and SX100 have the same sensor, so noise is gonna be similar on the two.(I'm guessing). Neither is even close to a dSLR. If I pixel peep, the noise/detail-loss at ISO100 bugs me. I really wish they'd start upping the sensor size in P&S. Not dSLR size(lenses would need to be large), just something in between to help with the noise.

[WT21]

Price aside, what about the G9?

[audiobomber]

Print it and see. I find resizing to 1024 viewing on screen, and printing 4x6 show about the same amount of noise and detail. Thats why I posted that size. But, monitors and printers vary.

I uploaded at 1152, but the forum settings changed the size. I don't have a printer yet, but it's on the list.

I really wish they'd start upping the sensor size in P&S. Not dSLR size(lenses would need to be large), just something in between to help with the noise.

What bugs me is that when they increase the sensor size, as in the G9 for example, they also boost the pixel count, thus ending up with better marketability but no real improvement in IQ. If 6mp is OK for a Nikon 40 or Pentax K100, why isn't it good enough for a G9?

[Jon]

What bugs me is that when they increase the sensor size, as in the G9 for example, they also boost the pixel count, thus ending up with better marketability but no real improvement in IQ. If 6mp is OK for a Nikon 40 or Pentax K100, why isn't it good enough for a G9?
Well, a G9's at the top of the P&S product line; the D40 and K100 are at the bottom of the DSLR lines. Megapixels are (unfortunately) part of the feature set that contribute to the perception of a higher end camera.

[audiobomber]

Someone at dpreview used noise reduction on my ISO 1600 test photo. Pretty impressive results.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=27311422

[hdd]

i was gonna say get the SX100 IS, since its like the S5 IS but smaller. I like the 10x zoom. If I get a pocket camera to go along with my XTI that will probably be the one. I believe some sites have that one listed for 240ish? Walmart has it for 299 I think lol

[audiobomber]

i was gonna say get the SX100 IS, since its like the S5 IS but smaller. I like the 10x zoom. If I get a pocket camera to go along with my XTI that will probably be the one. I believe some sites have that one listed for 240ish? Walmart has it for 299 I think lol

They use the same sensor, but I wouldn't say the SX100 is much like an S5. The S5 has:
- hot shoe
- flip out LCD
- EVF vs no viewfinder on the SX100
- far better video mode on S5

Pretty significant differences.

[hdd]

oh i know, but looks and zoom wise they are pretty close.. but yet still far different:)

If I wanted the S5 and didnt like it for its size, i'd probably get the sx100 to keep in my pocket. I believe I'm going to get that one for the wife as a bday gift since she doesnt like the SLR's size:)