Photo Organization??

[vcutag]

Hey, folks. This is my first post here, so please, be gentle. :)

I just bought a 300D a couple of weeks ago (used, got a great deal on it), and in that time, I've shot over 1,000 images, killing several gigs of hard drive space. I have a 15" PowerBook with an 80 gig hard drive, so I'm not worried about space just yet, but that leads into my question...

How on earth do you guys organize your files? I use the browser in Photoshop CS to view and open said files, but when it comes to offloading them from the camera (I use a PC card reader), I usually just copy all of the files into a folder in numerical sequence (I think I'm up to 034 or 035 now) in a "Canon" folder in my Pictures directory.

This is pretty cumbersome and while it works, it's driving me crazy because it's not very helpful trying to find pictures from a specific place or of a subject.

So, how do you guys do it? Any suggestions or advice?

I'm getting ready to go on a trip to Seattle and Vancouver to visit family in December, and I have a major project in the works for the spring semester (a photo-essay of the James River in Virginia, I'm a senior journalism student at VCU in Richmond), so the sooner I can get this straightened out, the better. :)

Thanks in advance!

--Tom

[PacAce]

Different people have different creative ways of organizing their photo files deending on their needs. I've come up with a strategy that works very well for me which I'd like to share with you to hopefully give you some ideas. Below is an excerpt from my web site since I'm too lazy to type it up again. :lol:


Although it really doesn’t matter how you store your image files in the computer, it would behoove you to have a directory structure that simplifies the task of managing your image files. In my case, all my image files are saved in a directory called, appropriately enough, Images. In the Images folder are subfolders called RAW, WORK, and FINAL.

All original images from the camera are stored in the RAW folder, in appropriately named subfolders. The subfolder name is typically made up of the date when the pictures were taken, the location where the pictures were taken and the event or description of the subjects taken.

http://tanseikai.com/tanseikai/images/extra/directory-tree.gif

The image files in the RAW folder should remain pristine. Any editing that needs to be done should be done on copies of these files. It would be a good idea to change the attribute tags of these files to Read-only after uploading to prevent them from being accidentally edited.

Copies of the files or converted images of raw images in the RAW folder are placed in the WORK folder in their respective subfolders. The files in the WORK folder are usually temporary “work-in-progress” files. When the image files have been processed into their final form, these files can be deleted if they will no longer be needed.

The finished images are stored in the FINAL folder, usually as JPEG files. From here, the images can be uploaded for use on the web, emailed to family and friends, or printed out.

[vcutag]

That's ingenius.

I just need to figure out a way to implement something similar. I've put it off and put it off, but I think it's time to sit down and organize my "Pictures" folder (which has several aborted attempts at organization over the past two years, causing all sorts of problems.)

Do any of the Mac heads here use iPhoto?

I've thought about it, but I'm not sure if I want to give the computer that much control over the archiving process. I don't care about music in iTunes, but pictures are important!

[PacAce]

That's ingenius.

I just need to figure out a way to implement something similar. I've put it off and put it off, but I think it's time to sit down and organize my "Pictures" folder (which has several aborted attempts at organization over the past two years, causing all sorts of problems.)

Do any of the Mac heads here use iPhoto?

I've thought about it, but I'm not sure if I want to give the computer that much control over the archiving process. I don't care about music in iTunes, but pictures are important!

I must admit that although I have iPhoto on my machine, I've never really done much of anything with it. I do all my photo organizing manually. I did try using a photo album type program to organize my photos a while back but I never really got myself really into it. Manual organization works just fine for me. As long as I have my directories labeled appropriately enough I can usually find what I need to find without needing to resort to keyword searches and the like.

I have used the browser in Photoshop CS and the Metadata and Keyword tabs to organize old family negative scans but I did that primarily because I was making CDs for my siblings and I wanted to make it easy for them to find images based on keywords.

[vcutag]

I must admit that although I have iPhoto on my machine, I've never really done much of anything with it. I do all my photo organizing manually. I did try using a photo album type program to organize my photos a while back but I never really got myself really into it. Manual organization works just fine for me. As long as I have my directories labeled appropriately enough I can usually find what I need to find without needing to resort to keyword searches and the like.

I have used the browser in Photoshop CS and the Metadata and Keyword tabs to organize old family negative scans but I did that primarily because I was making CDs for my siblings and I wanted to make it easy for them to find images based on keywords.

Makes sense. I'd have to say that the "Filmstrip" (?) viewing feature in Windows XP is the only thing I miss about it, I wish OS X had something similar.

[DeeplyDigital]

I have a folder called 'Fotos' which has lots of sub folders like
Bridges
Buildings
Cats & Dogs
Dublin by night
Fashion Show
Instruments
Musicians
People
etc.

As an Example 'Instruments' has a folder for Bodhrans, Bows,
Harpsichord and various violins. Inside each of those folders is
one folder containing the RAW files and one with the finished files.

After shooting I copy my new files into a folder on my desktop,
usually entitled 'today' or 'Friday' or 'Peter's Wedding'. That forces
me to tidy up and sort them - in the PSCS browser from where I
drag them into the already existing or newly created folders.
At some stage I rename all my files.

Works for me

J.
-

[PacAce]

Makes sense. I'd have to say that the "Filmstrip" (?) viewing feature in Windows XP is the only thing I miss about it, I wish OS X had something similar.

Are you refering to the Thumbnail feature which allows you to view all the image files in thumbnail form? Yup, I miss that a lot, too, on my Mac. The closest I can get with the OS X Finder is to switch to List mode and then select an image file. Finder will then show a preview of it on it's own column. However, most of my images are shot in RAW and I still haven't figured out how to make OS X recognize the THM files as JPEG files like I did with Windows XP. Oh, well, no biggie, though since I have PSCS and FVU and EVU I can use if I need to the thumbnails of these files.

[DeeplyDigital]

If together with the RAW you shoot a small JPEG the browser will show that beside the cr2 file.

I use iPhoto occasionally for printing BW, or for making slideshow dvds.

J.
-

[Scottes]

I have a directory called RAW where all new files go. I go through them, delete some, and do a quick convert on others. These conversion go into a subdirectoy called Develops, thanks to Capture 1. Processed images (always JPG at this point) go into my generic PostedImages directory and get thrown on the website for posting here and wherever. These JPGs get titled and the title retains the image bumber, so CRW_4514.CRW may get processed and saved as Eagle_4514.jpg.

These images stay in the RAW dir until I get around to Delete Round #2. After that, the originals and converted images then get moved to an appropriately named directory and I keep the subdirectory for developed shots. I almost never keep processed images at this point because they were probably done fairly quickly. Maybe.

The name of the final directory varies on the subject. Most birds and animals get sorted by type - all passerines go to one dir ("Birds"), all raptors to another ("Raptors"), etc. These are all under a dir called "Wildlife" versus "Landscapes" and so on. If I do a special trip, like GCPS in Montreal, that directory will be called "GCPS" under "Wildlife". My trip to Old Sturbridge Village goes into "Landscapes\Sturbridge."

Image names and directories never include a date because the date is on the file, in EXIF, and in IPTC. With this method it's conceivable that I'll have Raptors in both "Raptors" and "GCPS". Actually, it happens a lot. And I never record the location where I shot some random bird. And I never change the name of the image, so I may have shots of 15 waterfalls and no record of the name of the falls.


In short, you probably don't want to do it this way. So let that be a lesson to you.

:D


After 17 years experience in sorting and storing and categorizing files - sometimes a few million on a single server - I've decided that there's only 1 way to store and categorize my images: In a thumbnailed, searchable database with cross-references and and other many-to-one and one-to-many data points. And make sure that the program you use can handle off-line records, like images burned to CD/DVD and removed from the hard drive.

If you're going to attempt to store and categorize images in a flat directory structure you're fooling yourself. You'll be relying on your memory 2/3 of the time. Put them in a database and make it a good one, or just do whatever you think will work. In the long run - many many years from now - anything you've done will fail in some way.

Get them in a database - the sooner the better. Or live with what you've got now.

[timmyquest]

I have a very simlier routine as pacace does

What i really need to do though is start applying keywords to my finals :shock:

http://www.questphotos.com/org.jpg

[Goofup]

I've used a very simple method for years.

I have a folder for each year, sub folders for each month, sub-sub folders for the originals for each camera. I leave the originals alone, but when I work on a picture I save it with the main subject as the filename in the same year/month folder (so now the originals are in their own folder along with the processed ones all together by year/month). For instance a picture of my GF and her cat would be named "BobbyeFancy.jpg".

All the pictures for 2002, 2003, etc. are saved by year on separate CD/DVD's.

Currently I'm using PE3's Organizer, so it's pretty simple to find pictures by date, and a simple Find By Filename will locate all Bobbye's or Fancy's pictures (along with the originals that are in the same folder).

As I said, very simple, however since I've essentially categorized my pictures using the filename, I don't have to tag or flag thousands of pictures for PE3 (or any other program I've used, past, present, or future). In fact, I can find all Fancy's pictures just using the Windows Find command if needed.

[jimtfoto]

May as well throw in my two cents' worth as well ...
I download all files to a shared folder on my hard drive (we have two desktops and a laptop on a wireless network) so we can access from any device.
Within that shared folder I name new folders by location/date, e.g. SAMSMITH_110604 (that was yesterday's shoot). Within that folder, there's a folder for the raw downloads, a folder for converted images (basically just resized to 200 dpi, rotated to proper orientation and file info, date and location, recorded) and a folder for contact sheets. I make 11x17 contacts of the resized folder, 12 images to a sheet, which I print and catalog. We check over the 'resized' pix on screen to choose those we want to print, then finish off whatever post-processing is necessary in PS CS.
The three folders are burned onto DVD and filed.
Every few months or so I back up the digital photos onto DVD from the hard drive since I've usually run out of space by then.

cheers,
jim

[emax]

@scottes

Put them in a database and make it a good one, or just do whatever you think will work. In the long run - many many years from now - anything you've done will fail in some way.

Get them in a database - the sooner the better. Or live with what you've got now.

Thats exactly what i have been thinking about the last few weeks.

Which database to use? Which application? Which structure?

My idea is:

1. Keep all the raw pictures as files on your harddisc (which means: do NOT make them binary database-objects: if your database crashes, your pictures may be lost. If your harddisc crashes, SOME of you pictures may be lost - apart from your backup).
2. Create a medium-sized jpg-thumbnail of every picture, lets say 640x480 pixels. Put this thumbnail in the database.
3. Add the original filename (RAW-filename) to the database record.
4. Add the directory name where the raw-file is stored to the database record (use a relative directory-path, based on an installation-dependant root-directory. That way you can relocate the entire directory-structure whenever you want).
5. add a "final-image"-location to the database record.
6. Add a database-table which keeps all of the keywords associated with the picture in question.

All the other data (EXIF ...) can be retrieved in realtime by the application directly from the raw-file - avoid redundant storage.

Thats exacly what i'm looking for. And i would organize it that way, that all data is kept on my linux-box (database AND RAW-files), and the applications runs on my windows-box.

The rest should be done completely by the application: automatically create records from new RAW-files, batch-assignment of keywords (e.g. one could assign "peters birthday 2004" to all of the pictures processed today"), querying the database (find all "raptors" shoot in august 2003 at "Niagara-Falls") etc. Export a queried set of pictures to an any directory etc...

IMHO an ideal constellation. Does anybody know an application that works that way? I didn't yet find one.

emax

[Scottes]

Does anybody know an application that works that way? I didn't yet find one.

Check out iMatch at http://www.photools.com/

There are other, much more expensive ones, but this was my pick when I researched it. I just started using it though, thanks to this conversation, so I can't offer a review yet.

[emax]

Thank you, scottes.

It looks quite professional, and i'll give it a try.

But i couldn't find any information concerning the underlying database. I like (and i know) SQL very much. A MySql-database would be fine....

Anyway, i will try it.

emax

[djtowle]

I've been using iView Pro and Portfolio for a while now but I think I am going to settle on iView. They also seem to be in an expansion phase and are actively updating the program so get your requests in! Using an appllication like this lets you easily add keywords and organizational info to your photos, and too many features to go into here but it can really help you get organized.

I organize my photos thus- photos>year>month>roll#. Folder are named something like 2004-11_005_Description. The reason to write the filename this way is it will auto sort by year, then month, then roll.

In each folder are subfolders Negatives, raw and/or jpg (lock these), DNG New adobe format conversions, C1 with the basic C1 folders in it for processing. To this I add folders like jpg for web, converted tiffs, final prints etc. I usually preceed the folder name with the date 041115_for website. or some such.

I'll save my wish list for software features for another thread. NONE of them seem to do everything you need.

[emax]

They charge 168 Euro for iView in germany - quite a lot of money.

Try Thumbs Plus. A very powerfull application.

But they all lack the same feature: they dont use sql-databases, but use proprietary ones. I'm still looking for an sql-database. This is something i can handle at will. Additionally you can divide database and application - which means, that you may keep your data whereever you want, e.g. on a linux-machine, somewhere in the web or even on an AS/400. But you anyway could run your application on windows.

Perhaps (in my next life :D) i'll write my own solution....

[DReb-MO]

Thumbs+ is the solution. It's database can be opened in MS Access, provides attached keywords that can be searched and grouped. Allows for database access to offline pics on CD and DVD. Provides thumbnails of many RAW formats. The list goes on but you can check it out here:

http://www.cerious.com

There is a trial version. Good luck.

[emax]

Hi Dreb,

i didn't know one can open the thumbs database in access ...? Thats no doubt an extra argument, though its still not a native sql-database.

But thats anyway good news .

emax

[emax]

I just took a closer look at my thumbs-plus demo-installation: they do support ODBC and other database-drivers, even SQL-server!

I'll go deeper into this later - maybe this is really what i've been looking for!

emax

[thomascanty]

I have a very similar routine as PacAce, except I keep two copies of my RAW files (I only shoot RAW), on two different hard drives. When the collection on my primary drive gets to a multiple of 4Gb, I write them all out to DVD-R using Archive Creator from Picture Flow, then delete everything from the primary HD. The ones on the secondary HD stay there indefinitely.

[ksporry]

I usually use the structure
year
event
RAW
JPEG

Usually I also use a separate folder for images I put on the web as they are usually smaller than the other JPEGs I create.
At the moment this means each time I need a photo, I need to post-process it again (I don't like using the JPEGS for anything else but internet or sharing with friends/family). I should create a folder with processed TIFFs.

Personally i don't use iPhoto, mostly because the task is tedious. You need processed photos and then tag all of them and you still need to structure the directory using sugegstions of iPhoto. on itself handy, but not for me.
I use capture image to extract from the CF card and then I use Canon Digital Photo Professional to batch process RAW files to JPEGs. It's easy and reasonably fast. I actually only use it so I can give them to friends quickly, the function isn't any good for anything else as far as I can see

[PhotosGuy]

It's not elegant, but this is how I do it. The small web sized pics go in the root dir of each main folder for easy review.

[Rense]

Tom,
I do the following:
I copy my images to a directory called photos on my harddisk, using downloader pro.

This program makes automatically a directory by date. Subsequently I put all raw images in a subdirectory raw and save edited pictures in a subdirectory edited.

Next i use the imatch program (http://www.photools.com/) to assign categories (camera type,photographer, IPTC info and status of the file)