need some help shooting sunsets

[hdd]

Im not sure which forum this goes in so more if anyone has to:) But whats the trick to shooting good sunsets on the water or behind land? I know you cant point the camera at the sun, so this would be after it sets or not directly at the sun. But, what do most shoot those in. The only lenses I have to work with is the 50mm 1.8 and the sigma 17-70mm so its not gonna get great shots.


thanks for any help or opinons

[WanderingMind]

Im not sure which forum this goes in so more if anyone has to:) But whats the trick to shooting good sunsets on the water or behind land? I know you cant point the camera at the sun, so this would be after it sets or not directly at the sun. But, what do most shoot those in. The only lenses I have to work with is the 50mm 1.8 and the sigma 17-70mm so its not gonna get great shots.


thanks for any help or opinons


No problem pointing your camera at the sun, just be careful you don't hurt your eyes looking through the viewfinder.

[hdd]

i was just trying to get an idea of what to use... I have a tripod I can use. Im guessing you want your ISO around 100? Shutter speed low, maybe 1/60?

just trying to get an idea what settings to try first other than auto mode:)

[JTVal]

The only way you'll be sure what setting to use it to get out there and take 100 pictures (thats just a cliche number) adjust the settings as you go. It will change from day to day depending on what time, how much sun is left, the water and or clouds reflecting etc.

I suggest you use "M" go out with a high Aperture (edit: and a tripod)since you'll get a better DOF and use the built in light meter to center the arrow.
That's always a good starting ground. Pretty shortly you'll have a beter idea of what your lens and camera should be set on with in a few settings.
This one took me four shots to figure out. (but I also blew a few other great shots in the previous days.)
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7ce07b3127ccebecf99cc78b600000046100BZt2rdu1bse

This one was taken the same day I believe.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8dd36b3127cceb635e6990bb600000025100BZt2rdu1bse

[JTVal]

No problem pointing your camera at the sun, just be careful you don't hurt your eyes looking through the viewfinder.

Yea you mean like the time I had my 200 with a 2x extender on and I was tracking a jet across the sky until ::!:!:!"BAMMM"!:!:!:: the jet passed by the sun?

Hopefully, I'm not the only idiot whose had that happen.:lol:

[Wayland]

One tip I would give because I have seen loads of people forget this.

Do not have auto white balance set on your camera unless you want grey sunsets. ;)

[argyle]

One tip I would give because I have seen loads of people forget this.

Do not have auto white balance set on your camera unless you want grey sunsets. ;)

Shouldn't be a problem if one is shooting in RAW...the WB can be adjusted in post.

[argyle]

Im not sure which forum this goes in so more if anyone has to:) But whats the trick to shooting good sunsets on the water or behind land? I know you cant point the camera at the sun, so this would be after it sets or not directly at the sun. But, what do most shoot those in. The only lenses I have to work with is the 50mm 1.8 and the sigma 17-70mm so its not gonna get great shots.


thanks for any help or opinons

There is no clear rule-of-thumb that will work for all circumstances. One thing is for sure...the sky will always be brighter than the foreground...how you control that light difference is the key, otherwise you'll end up with deep shadows and/or blown highlights.. If you're using a tripod, you can always take two exposures (sky and foreground) and blend them in PS. You can also use a reverse graduated ND filter...this will be darker at the demarcation line and fade to lighter towards the upper portion of the filter (works well if you want to have the sun in the frame), or a regular GND if you don't want the sun in the frame). Around water, you can also use a long exposure to smooth out the water with the use of solid ND filters. It all depends on what type of shot you have in mind and the look that you're after. BTW...your lenses should do just fine.

[PhotosGuy]

But whats the trick to shooting good sunsets on the water or behind land? I know you cant point the camera at the sun, so this would be after it sets or not directly at the sun. Meter on manual to the side of the sun so it isn't in the frame. Then you can include the son in the frame for the shot. just don't let the camera aim there for very long. I'll post a couple of example shots tomorrow. The only lenses I have to work with is the 50mm 1.8 and the sigma 17-70mm so its not gonna get great shots. It's the part of photography called creativity. Use what you have to the best advantage.

[Stime187]

The only lenses I have to work with is the 50mm 1.8 and the sigma 17-70mm so its not gonna get great shots.


thanks for any help or opinons

You have a fantastic landscape lens. Just learn what you're doing and you'll be fine. The 17-70 Sigma is my favorite lens/range (on a crop body) that I've ever used, especially for landscapes.

Basically, you need to understand how to use your histogram and properly expose images. Then, you need to learn/practice composition.

- Scott

[Wayland]

Shouldn't be a problem if one is shooting in RAW...the WB can be adjusted in post.

True enough but it still amazes me how many people do not shoot in Raw.

Seem to think it's complicated or something. http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/images/smilies/dunno.gif

[Mark_Cohran]

You can shoot into the sun at sunset - just be prudent:

http://www.mac-photo.net/blog/sunset/sunset_hawaii.jpg

http://www.mac-photo.net/blog/sunset/Sunset_Fury01.jpg

But cloud formations can be beautiful in and of themselves:

http://www.mac-photo.net/blog/sunset/sunset_desert01.jpg

http://www.mac-photo.net/blog/sunset/sunset_carib.jpg

[mnealtx]

Beautiful shots, Mark!

[slappy sam]

You can shoot into the sun at sunset - just be prudent:



http://www.mac-photo.net/blog/sunset/Sunset_Fury01.jpg



Wow....

Use the 17-70, it will be fine. You might have to do hdr if your shooting into the sun without any GNDs. You can also use the search function in this forum on google for some other helpful tips regarding metering and etc.

Someone said that the only way is to go out and shoot "100 pictures" and adjust settings using the histogram/previews on your camera. While this would work, you should be able to get a pretty much perfect photo on the first shot if you have a good understanding of metering, the light difference between the foreground and the sunset, and an idea of what you want the picture to look like. People like Ansel Adams shot with huge 8x10 plates and rarely shot more than 3 photos at a time. Sometimes people who shoot LF will go out and shoot one picture for an entire day. This is because the plates are expensive and they put a ton of effort into each individual picture. With digital we don't have to do that but the principle is still the same.

Edit: Here are a couple of my shots shooting into the sun as well. http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=467771

[Tee Why]

I'd recommend using partial or center weighted metering and meter off of the sky and not the sun.

You can use partial or Aperature mode in general and it should do fine. Generally there should be enough light during sunsets to shoot around ISO 100. Remember, this is a landscape shot, so you may want to stop down to about f8 or so to keep things sharp and have enough depth of field.

These are just general guidelines, so experiment as well. BTW, if you use a longer focal length, it tends to make the sun look bigger as well, which generally tends to look more pleasing to the eye.

[FlyingPhotog]

Yea you mean like the time I had my 200 with a 2x extender on and I was tracking a jet across the sky until ::!:!:!"BAMMM"!:!:!:: the jet passed by the sun?

Hopefully, I'm not the only idiot whose had that happen.:lol:

Oh Man,

Been there, done that and had the tears in my eyes to prove it!

:lol::cool:

[PhotosGuy]

Here's the dupe from a slide I promised you in post 9:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/PhotosGuy/Samples%20-%20General/Balloons_01-1.jpg?t=1206279932

[JTVal]

True enough but it still amazes me how many people do not shoot in Raw.

Seem to think it's complicated or something. http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/images/smilies/dunno.gif


Do you have a link to a tutorial or something?

I dont understand the RAW edit process at all. It seems easy but I just can't tweak the stuff properly.http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/images/smilies/dunno.gif

[PhotosGuy]

Do you have a link to a tutorial or something? Start here:
-= FAQ & IMPORTANT LINKS =- (Read Me First) (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138533)

[WaltA]

Although everybody has their favorite configuration for sunsets I think you'll find that every sunset is different depending on the location, time of year, temperature, clouds etc etc.

I set up (along with 10 or 12 others) down on Canon Beach, OR last fall and took sunset shots for over an hour until well after dark. Even after the sky around me seemed too dark for shooting, I was amazed at the pictures my xTi took.

Heres a sample - no PP. Just converted from RAW to JPG.

I came away with over 200 shots and I am still analyzing them and seeing how I can do it better next time. Swapped from AV to TV to capture wave action or sharpness. Can't wait to do it again.

[Mark_Cohran]

Although everybody has their favorite configuration for sunsets I think you'll find that every sunset is different depending on the location, time of year, temperature, clouds etc etc.

I set up (along with 10 or 12 others) down on Canon Beach, OR last fall and took sunset shots for over an hour until well after dark. Even after the sky around me seemed too dark for shooting, I was amazed at the pictures my xTi took.

Heres a sample - no PP. Just converted from RAW to JPG.

I came away with over 200 shots and I am still analyzing them and seeing how I can do it better next time. Swapped from AV to TV to capture wave action or sharpness. Can't wait to do it again.

Canon Beach is a great place to shoot. Have you shot from Ecola Point as well?

[hdd]

Walt, which mode did you shoot in for that shot? Manual, if so im guessing you metered above the sun, then shot? What did you set the aperture at if you remember?

Thats my basic issue.. im not sure what to set the aperture at. I know f8-11 is the who cares, but is there a huge difference in F12-F16 for example?

[WaltA]

Canon Beach is a great place to shoot. Have you shot from Ecola Point as well?

Yeah, we did the whole coast from Crescent City to Astoria in 6 days.

Stopped over 300 times

I'll post a few more but I'm still going through them to decide what PP I want to do.

[WaltA]

Walt, which mode did you shoot in for that shot? Manual, if so im guessing you metered above the sun, then shot? What did you set the aperture at if you remember?

Thats my basic issue.. im not sure what to set the aperture at. I know f8-11 is the who cares, but is there a huge difference in F12-F16 for example?

No, I haven't got to the M stage yet. All the sunset photos I took were just flipping back and forth between AV and TV. That one was Shutter Priority - its all in the EXIF.

I liked the way the I could make the water look misty one way and get sharp detail the other way.

F4 at 1/320 for this shot


I was using RF to trigger the shutter so I just focused (with *) on the water/rock/horizon (depending on what I wanted to get sharp), and tripped the shutter after composing the shot.

[WaltA]

I know this against the "rules" but it was 15 sec at F22 and ISO 400

It was later in the evening using Aperture Priority.

I think it turned out pretty good even without PP.

[PhotosGuy]

No, I haven't got to the M stage yet. All the sunset photos I took were just flipping back and forth between AV and TV. That one was Shutter Priority - its all in the EXIF. The "M stage" is much easier that trying to contend with EC when you're starting out. Read this on how the subject affects the exposure in Post # 47 (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=5191658&postcount=47)

[WaltA]

The "M stage" is much easier that trying to contend with EC when you're starting out. Read this on how the subject affects the exposure in Post # 47 (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=5191658&postcount=47)

Yeah, Frank, I saw that thread and wanted to spend some time doing some tests of my own that use the same methodology.

After a bit of playing with "M" when I first got my xTi I went from "P" to "Av" and "Tv". I got bit by the "your not smart enough for M yet" bug. So when setting out for Haystack Rock that evening last year I decided to stick with the modes I had been successful using before.

Your threads will help me move to the next level and fortunately for me here in White Rock we have some of the best sunsets in the north coast, with the gathering of clouds over vancouver Island in the west as the sun goes down.

So as soon as it stops raining I can step out on my patio and start shooting. ;)

[WaltA]

And for the OP, my point behind posting that second shot was that looking directly at the sky it was black - you would think too dark to get a photo.

Although, as Frank suggested, I could have had more control in M mode, even in Aperature Priority Mode, by extending the exposure to 15 sec the camera captured a blue sky that was not seen with the naked eye.

A little PP on the RAW file to bring out some detail in the rock and I think this photo will be a keeper.

Cheers

[hdd]

Walt, why did you choose 400ISO over say 100 for that shot? I see most tend to shoot sunsets with ISO's of 100. Its a great shot non the less:)

i tend to perferr the P-AV modes also.. I kinda have a idea of manual, but AV seems to work best for me

[WaltA]

Walt, why did you choose 400ISO over say 100 for that shot? I see most tend to shoot sunsets with ISO's of 100. Its a great shot non the less:)

i tend to perferr the P-AV modes also.. I kinda have a idea of manual, but AV seems to work best for me

Well, it was my first opportunity to seriously set up and spend a couple of hours capturing this great sunset. So I took over 200 shots and it was basically to test a bunch of theories by bracketing shots and trying different things.

So one of the things I wanted to was see how much noise I got when I increased the ISO to make up for fading light - in an effort to keep the exposure time down. So I took 10 pictures gradually increasing ISO so that I could look at them later and see if I saved a few stops that way.

The results are that maybe only 1 or 2 out of those 10 are keepers from a creativity and exposure perspective but I learned a lot about understanding exposure by looking at the EXIF data and seeing how it affected each shot.

[Stime187]

Walt, why did you choose 400ISO over say 100 for that shot? I see most tend to shoot sunsets with ISO's of 100. Its a great shot non the less:)



He shouldn't have. ISO 100 will produce a cleaner image than 400. My camera never leaves ISO 100 when I'm shooting landscapes. You should only change the ISO (in my opinion) if you have a good reason to do so. And, if you're shooting from a tripod (like you should be), then exposure length is a non-issue.

- Scott

[WaltA]

He shouldn't have. ISO 100 will produce a cleaner image than 400. My camera never leaves ISO 100 when I'm shooting landscapes. You should only change the ISO (in my opinion) if you have a good reason to do so. And, if you're shooting from a tripod (like you should be), then exposure length is a non-issue.

- Scott

If ya don't try ya don't learn.

Also, it depends on what mood your trying to create in-camera.

Except by reading about other people doing it on this forum.

;)

PS - I was using tripod. Hard to use remote shutter without.

[Stime187]

If ya don't try ya don't learn.

Also, it depends on what mood your trying to create in-camera.

Except by reading about other people doing it on this forum.

;)

PS - I was using tripod. Hard to use remote shutter without.

There's nothing wrong with trying and learning, but he asked why you did it, I was explaining to him that he shouldn't follow suit as higher ISO means more noise. Not something 99.9% of landscapers want in their shots, myself included.

- Scott

[WaltA]

There's nothing wrong with trying and learning, but he asked why you did it, I was explaining to him that he shouldn't follow suit as higher ISO means more noise. Not something 99.9% of landscapers want in their shots, myself included.

- Scott

True enought, Scott.

Unless he wants to understand exactly how much noise ISO400 will mean on his camera. I'm no expert but I believe some bodies handle noise better than others.

As well, my XtI has the noise reduction feature that is supposed to cut in during long exposures. Part of the reason for the bracketing I was doing was to understand that.

By the way Scott, great shots in your gallery.

[Stime187]

True enought, Scott.

Unless he wants to understand exactly how much noise ISO400 will mean on his camera. I'm no expert but I believe some bodies handle noise better than others.

As well, my XtI has the noise reduction feature that is supposed to cut in during long exposures. Part of the reason for the bracketing I was doing was to understand that.

By the way Scott, great shots in your gallery.

Thanks, Walt and you're correct, some bodies do handle noise better than others. But for landscape photography that's generally a non-issue as you want NO noise, not just less.

But experimenting with your camera is the best way to learn. But, for a beginner, I try to simplify as many aspects as possible for them. In this case, he should just leave his camera on ISO 100 until he understands he's ready to start exploring the more minor details of landscape photography.

- Scott

[WaltA]

I am very much an amateur and have been working both with landscapes and sunsets. And, possibly similar to the OP, one of the problems I have with sunsets is the 3 distinct contrasting areas as you can see in my 2 earlier attachments.

You have the light of the sun (fairly bright), you have the shadow areas (back side of the rock) and also the reflected light and darkness in the water. In my effort to think creatively, these are the main 3 focal points of the picture. And finding the right match of settings to expose these areas in their best light is an interesting challenge with sunsets - as opposed to plain measurebating.

Scott, I (and probabaly the OP as well) would like to hear your thoughts on that.

[Stime187]

Walt, are you referring to one of my shots? I'm not seeing anything attached... just tell me the name and I'll post it up if you'd like me to explain it.

- Scott

[hdd]

i understand:) Its to each their own:) Personally to most I dont think they notice a difference in ISO settings. I know I shoot somewhat high ISO in lowlight since I seldom use a tripod. But setup for sunsets I would definitly bring one:)

[WaltA]

Walt, are you referring to one of my shots? I'm not seeing anything attached... just tell me the name and I'll post it up if you'd like me to explain it.

- Scott

No I was referring to both the shots I posted earlier in the thread.

The OP was asking about sunsets, and (at the risk of hijacking his post) I was explaining where I'm having challenges with the contrasting areas.

[WaltA]

i understand:) Its to each their own:) Personally to most I dont think they notice a difference in ISO settings. I know I shoot somewhat high ISO in lowlight since I seldom use a tripod. But setup for sunsets I would definitly bring one:)

I'm only experimenting with ISO (I don't think 400 is particularly high) and I don't print out much. From what I understand the only time noise will be an issue is if you print in high resolution.

Like I said before, I'm only taking photos for personal consumption and don't have to worry about selling prints or anything like that.

Cheers

[blackcap]

He shouldn't have. ISO 100 will produce a cleaner image than 400. My camera never leaves ISO 100 when I'm shooting landscapes. You should only change the ISO (in my opinion) if you have a good reason to do so. And, if you're shooting from a tripod (like you should be), then exposure length is a non-issue.

- Scott

How do you deal with moving objects, like birds, trees on a windy day, etc? Or is the shutter still quick enough to freeze them?

[blackcap]

I'm only experimenting with ISO (I don't think 400 is particularly high) and I don't print out much. From what I understand the only time noise will be an issue is if you print in high resolution.

Or if you want to use it as a high res wallpaper. I took some nice sunset shots recently that (IMHO) would make great wallpapers, but at full size they are too noisy (I had to use ISO 800 as I didn't have a tripod with me). They were at f/11 so maybe I should've tried a wider aperature to get the ISO down to 400.

[Stime187]

How do you deal with moving objects, like birds, trees on a windy day, etc? Or is the shutter still quick enough to freeze them?

Birds are a non-issue, I'd wait til they were out of the frame unless for some reason I thought they were important, then I would make the shutter fast enough via aperture or ISO setting. This has never been an issue though.

Trees on a windy day, I don't shoot. I go back at dawn when the wind is calmer and shoot the scene or wait til the wind calms down.

- Scott

[DennisE]

Can someone explain how to get sunset shots as seen in this thread but with people in foreground that are correctly exposed. Am I correct in thinking the only way would be to use flash to light up the people but meter off the sky for the sunset. Or are there other tricks of the trade

[PhotosGuy]

I'm only experimenting with ISO (I don't think 400 is particularly high) and I don't print out much. From what I understand the only time noise will be an issue is if you print in high resolution. Nothing wrong with experimenting, but...
Like I said before, I'm only taking photos for personal consumption and don't have to worry about selling prints or anything like that. You should still try to form good habits. Someday you'll get that shot of a lifetime & it will only look good as a 4X6" print. ;)

[Stime187]

Can someone explain how to get sunset shots as seen in this thread but with people in foreground that are correctly exposed. Am I correct in thinking the only way would be to use flash to light up the people but meter off the sky for the sunset. Or are there other tricks of the trade

Yes, you're right. You would have to use fill-flash for the people.

Nothing wrong with experimenting, but...
You should still try to form good habits. Someday you'll get that shot of a lifetime & it will only look good as a 4X6" print. ;)

Totally agree. Personal or professional, I always tell people to strive to do their very best. You also don't know when someone might want to buy one from you...

- Scott

[WaltA]

Yes, you're right. You would have to use fill-flash for the people.



Totally agree. Personal or professional, I always tell people to strive to do their very best. You also don't know when someone might want to buy one from you...

- Scott


That depends on your definition of "very best".

In this instance I believe my committment (even to myself) is to make my picture of a rock on the beach in Oregon different (maybe better) than everybody elses picture of the rock on a beach. And I can't do that by following the 'published" standards for taking photos of a sunset.

Like I said earlier in the thread I believe every sunset is different. I've had an opportunity to see lots of them here and on the prairies and my experiments have been to accomplish what argyle was saying earlier in this thread - that is to have the dark foreground/bright background exposed properly to gather as much detail as possible. With some PP I can bring out the rest.