Cheap tripod + Good ballhead or Good tripod + Cheap Ballhead

[wonker]

I just found out that I'm being (sort of) screwed out of a chunk of money. Can't blame anyone, no injustice here, but that's how it is.

So now I have to cut my projected equipment purchases, especially on the tripod and ballhead front.

I was planning on buying a Gitzo 3530LSV and a RRS RH-55 ballhead. But I now must give up purchasing one. And since having just the leg or just the ballhead isn't going to help me in any way taking picutres (although I guess I could take a shot at it ;)) I need some input on the path I should take.

Scenario #1
Buy the good tripod first, get a cheap ballhead. This way, I have stability on the lower end but a really frustrating experience framing for a long while. And I have to put up with lens creep and all of the other fun stuff (5D w/ grip and an L lens get's pretty heavy). Of course, I could go ahead and buy just the QR clamp and plates, but alas, the budget won't cut it.

Scenario #2
Buy the good ballhead first, and cheap out on the tripod. This way, I can buy into the RRS plate system first, making it so that I just bolt on the head on the good tripod I purchase later and go. In the meanwhile, I can lug around 50 lbs. of sandbags to try and stabilize whatever the hell flimsy $30 tripod I buy.

Note, I will be shooting landscapes, minimal wildlife (if at all) with the setup. And yes I did all of the homework on all of the other options (so spare me on the manfrottos, induros or other options), and one lesson I came away with was that you get what you pay for. So what should I pay for?

Thanks for the replies in advance.

[blonde]

for your setup, a ball head like the manfrotto 488RC2 will work just perfectly and even the legs that you are considering will be serious over kill. if you must buy that combo though, i would get the legs first with the manfrotto ball head and upgrade the head later when you have more money.

and btw, you obviously didn't do very well on your home work because the manfrotto are fantastic and for a rig such as yours, are way better value than the Gitzo and RRS..

[beachbum2277]

Take a look at Adorama's Flashpoint line. They're carbon fiber legs and smooth ball heads and both affordable. Check it out here.... (http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=itemlist&cat1=Flashpoint%20Carbon%20Fiber%20Tripods&cat2=Tripods%20/%20Monopods%20/%20Accs)

[wonker]

Look, I'm not looking down on Manfrottos or other brands by any means. But the fact of the matter is, I absolutely despise flip locks (try unlocking them in -30C weather with or without gloves), hate spinning legs on non ALR collar locks, and want carbon fiber for the weight and less conductivity (again, aluminum + extremely cold weather = freezer burns).

I've been working with other people's/companies high-end (and sometimes low-end) equipment of a great wide variety for over a decade, so I know what I like and dislike. I decided that I finally had enough experience where I felt comfortable that I would be making the right decisions, so it was time I invest in my own equipment, and I would like to purchase something that will last me a long while and satisfy me along the way.

[kevin92285]

I'd say go with the good tripod first because in the end I wouldn't trust a $30 tripod to hold up my camera. Yeah you'll spend more time adjusting the head and such, but IMO it's worth the peace of mind that my camera is safe (or atleast safer on the expensive tripod rather than the cheapo one.)

[blonde]

Look, I'm not looking down on Manfrottos or other brands by any means. But the fact of the matter is, I absolutely despise flip locks (try unlocking them in -30C weather with or without gloves), hate spinning legs on non ALR collar locks, and want carbon fiber for the weight and less conductivity (again, aluminum + extremely cold weather = freezer burns).

I've been working with other people's/companies high-end (and sometimes low-end) equipment of a great wide variety for over a decade, so I know what I like and dislike. I decided that I finally had enough experience where I felt comfortable that I would be making the right decisions, so it was time I invest in my own equipment, and I would like to purchase something that will last me a long while and satisfy me along the way.

now that is useful information that changes everything :)

[Mith242]

If it were me, I think I'd put a majority of the money into the legs. I don't know exactly what type of budget you're looking at. But as was mentioned previously I think the Manfrotto 488RC2 is a pretty decent ballhead. Sure you might want to work up to something else at some point. But I think it would work well with the equipment you have.

[JohnJ80]

I just found out that I'm being (sort of) screwed out of a chunk of money. Can't blame anyone, no injustice here, but that's how it is.

So now I have to cut my projected equipment purchases, especially on the tripod and ballhead front.

I was planning on buying a Gitzo 3530LSV and a RRS RH-55 ballhead. But I now must give up purchasing one. And since having just the leg or just the ballhead isn't going to help me in any way taking picutres (although I guess I could take a shot at it ;)) I need some input on the path I should take.

Scenario #1
Buy the good tripod first, get a cheap ballhead. This way, I have stability on the lower end but a really frustrating experience framing for a long while. And I have to put up with lens creep and all of the other fun stuff (5D w/ grip and an L lens get's pretty heavy). Of course, I could go ahead and buy just the QR clamp and plates, but alas, the budget won't cut it.

Scenario #2
Buy the good ballhead first, and cheap out on the tripod. This way, I can buy into the RRS plate system first, making it so that I just bolt on the head on the good tripod I purchase later and go. In the meanwhile, I can lug around 50 lbs. of sandbags to try and stabilize whatever the hell flimsy $30 tripod I buy.

Note, I will be shooting landscapes, minimal wildlife (if at all) with the setup. And yes I did all of the homework on all of the other options (so spare me on the manfrottos, induros or other options), and one lesson I came away with was that you get what you pay for. So what should I pay for?

Thanks for the replies in advance.

Get the good legs and then put an average head on it that you can replace later.

I think the manfrotto 488 suggestions are not great, I think the thing is too small and would be lost on top of that tripod.

You might spend some time on ebay looking for a used ballhead. I think you could do pretty well with this.

Here is another mid range ballhead that is pretty good:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/368325-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_468MGRC2_468MGRC2_Hydrostatic_Ball head_with.html

Acratech is another good head but is lower cost.

Ultimately, the best head for that set of legs, is IMO, the Markins M20 with a RRS clamp on top of it. I think it does a better job than the BH55 (at least as good) and is about a pound lighter to boot.

J.

[Bill Roberts]

Personally I'd get the Gitzo tripod and the Manfrotto 488RC2 head. Whilst the head may not be the best available it's perfectly adequate until you can get the one that you really want.

cheers

[Diesel_Dog]

Personally I'd get the Gitzo tripod and the Manfrotto 488RC2 head. Whilst the head may not be the best available it's perfectly adequate until you can get the one that you really want.

cheers

This sounds like good advice. The bonus is that you might not lose too much money on this ball head if you go to sell it on here when your ready for the upgrade. Every other tripod thread recommends this head, so it should go fast in the buy & sell.

[Rey]

I am facing the exact dilemma. I have a Manfrotto tripod and 488RC2 ballhead. I had an opportunity to use the set-up you're planning on purchasing. The Gitzo 3530 and RRS BH55 LR is a great combo. Only problem was that it ruined me for anything else. I just received my RRS BH55 LR ballhead, L plate and lens plate (for 70-200) and it was definitely worth the expense.

If you've used the Arca Swiss compatible QR then the Manfrotto RC2 will disappoint. I've switched over and am wondering why I didn't do it sooner. I'm gonna buy a an RRS or Kirk clamp for my monopod. Right now I have the BH55 mounted on my Manfrotto 3001 legs and I've already noticed an increase in stability over my 488RC2. I'd personally suggest buying into the Arca Swiss compatible QR system right off the bat and passing on the RC2.

[René Damkot]

I'm not sure.
I too dislike flip locks.
You might want to look at the Velbon Carmange line; I've read some good things about those on POTN recently.

I would definitely go with Arca style plates however, whatever ballhead you are going to buy...

So: probabely best option would be: Gitzo, something like a Manfrotto hydraulic head, and Arca QR.

[argyle]

Get the better legs now, and a mid-grade ballhead to start with. What good is a head that will support fifty pounds )(like the BH-55) if the foundation is not stable? The Gitzo 1277M ballhead will support thirteen pounds and is rather inexpensive (about $170 at B&H). I'm using that now on a Velbon tripod with an RRS lever clamp. I also just added a Gitzo GT2540 with a Markins M-10 ballhead and RRS clamp. Get the better legset first...your pictures will thank you for it. ;)

[jhom]

From my viewpoint I think you are looking at this problem as an one or the other problem and not looking at the whole issue. Given your gear and intended shooting matter why a 3 series and a 55? Unless you intend to use longer focal lengths I would think a 2 series and a BH40 or Markins M10 would be an excellent setup that will out live you. Depending on your money you can buy them at the same with money you saved from changing to this setup.

[donlavange]

If it were me, I think I'd put a majority of the money into the legs. I don't know exactly what type of budget you're looking at. But as was mentioned previously I think the Manfrotto 488RC2 is a pretty decent ballhead. Sure you might want to work up to something else at some point. But I think it would work well with the equipment you have.

I am seeing quite a few tripods of Chinese origin coning into the market at fairly low prices. Even carbon fiber jobs! Assuming they are copies of known designs, they may be better choices. Anyone have experience with these products?

Can't wait to see a RRS quality head at a "knock off" price. It will come, as will many such things.

[jag1]

I am seeing quite a few tripods of Chinese origin coning into the market at fairly low prices. Even carbon fiber jobs! Assuming they are copies of known designs, they may be better choices. Anyone have experience with these products?

Can't wait to see a RRS quality head at a "knock off" price. It will come, as will many such things.

I just came across this. http://www.tomwebsterphoto.com/Essays/Benro/benroks2.htm I was considering something like this to save some cash but after seeing this I have doughts. I will likly wait until I can go with a Markins.
Is this the same with all of these knock offs?

[donlavange]

I just came across this. http://www.tomwebsterphoto.com/Essays/Benro/benroks2.htm I was considering something like this to save some cash but after seeing this I have doughts. I will likly wait until I can go with a Markins.
Is this the same with all of these knock offs?

Well. Thanks to you and that reviewer for all of his work to show up a shoddy product. These Chinese products, like the Japanese before them, will evolve and improve.

Until then, buy from known sources and buy known brands, What galls me is that in many cases, the known brands are outsourcing their superior specifications and having the products made in China and elsewhere. Then they keep the price to the consumer the same and the difference falls to their bottom lines.

[JohnJ80]

Well. Thanks to you and that reviewer for all of his work to show up a shoddy product. These Chinese products, like the Japanese before them, will evolve and improve.

Until then, buy from known sources and buy known brands, What galls me is that in many cases, the known brands are outsourcing their superior specifications and having the products made in China and elsewhere. Then they keep the price to the consumer the same and the difference falls to their bottom lines.

There is a huge difference between having products made to your specifications and then having a product made whose fit and finish is similar but its underlying specs are not.

I do a lot of outsourcing and spend a lot of time in Asia in mfgs plants. Just because a product is mfgs in china means nothing about its ultimate quality. It has a lot more to do with what the design was in the first place and the management of the mfg process by the end OEM.



J.

[wonker]

I'm liking some of the suggestions here.
I did neglect to mention that although I do shoot mainly landscapes, I use anywhere from 24mm to 400mm. I am planning to purchase a telephoto lens after this tripod fiasco. This is the reason I'm going for the thicker tripod and bigger head.
I've personally seen and tried out the tripods from China etc. And I did not like what I saw compared to the Gitzos. So although I appreciate the suggestions, could the answering of the question stay in the realm of my scenario? Thanks.

[jag1]

Today I was walking behind a guy with a giotto carbon fiber tripod and a wimberly with a d2x and 400 2.8. The center colum broke and the cam and lens hit the dirt just after we stepped off of the asphalt. I was so close I was surprised that it did not hit me. You could see how the shaft ripped. not sure if this was just a freak event or something to be conserned with. He is looking at a new gitzo now. Dirt and mulch are soft no camera was hurt in this event.

[argyle]

Knockoffs are cheaper for several reasons...(1) use of lower quality materials/workmanship and (2) sub-standard manufacturing, just to name a few. Generally, you're taking your chances just to save a few bucks. I don't get why folks will spend $3000 to $4000 dollars on a camera/body setup, then cheap out and expect to get a suitable CF tripod/ballhead setup for under $200...usually, its an accident waiting to happen. In the long run, the buyer is not really saving anything.

[wonker]

Good News, and thanks to all who replied.

I was fortunate enough to have worked out a deal with the wife, and already have the 3530LSV in my hands. Waiting on the BH-55 LR, should be here this Wednesday. I went ahead and purchased the tripod first, but when I went to the local camera shop and looked at some of the cheaper ballhead offerings just to make sure I wasn't missing out, I confirmed my suspicions. Cheap = Sucks. It was a horror show. Plate(camera) rotating instead of the panning base, dual release of panning base and ballhead...

I found that the Manfrotto offerings were a bit chunkier than I'd like, also a bit on the taller side as well. So after this confirmation of what I already knew, I went to the wife, begging... And she succumbed! YES!

So again, thanks all for your great suggestions. All your comments were not in vain.

[JohnJ80]

IMO, that is the way to do it. Don't skimp - it just costs you more in the long run. I've lived the Tom Hogan thing and wish I'd wised up earlier and saved a ton of money. Tom's article is not abstract to me. It's pretty much a chronology of what I did.

http://bythom.com/support.htm


J.

[argyle]

Good News, and thanks to all who replied.

I was fortunate enough to have worked out a deal with the wife, and already have the 3530LSV in my hands. Waiting on the BH-55 LR, should be here this Wednesday. I went ahead and purchased the tripod first, but when I went to the local camera shop and looked at some of the cheaper ballhead offerings just to make sure I wasn't missing out, I confirmed my suspicions. Cheap = Sucks. It was a horror show. Plate(camera) rotating instead of the panning base, dual release of panning base and ballhead...

I found that the Manfrotto offerings were a bit chunkier than I'd like, also a bit on the taller side as well. So after this confirmation of what I already knew, I went to the wife, begging... And she succumbed! YES!

So again, thanks all for your great suggestions. All your comments were not in vain.

Looks like you learned a valuable lesson...that is, the point at which your wife throws up her hands and caves in. There's something to be said about pestering. :D

Seriously...you're always going to get people's opinions based on their experiences. No one is going to recommend that you purchase a POS in order to just have something. Most people here, myself and JohnJ80 included, have learned the hard way over the years by paying for something two and three times over before we realized that we weren't really saving anything by 'going cheap' initially. From the looks of things, you're going to have a nice setup...lotsa luck with it.

[JohnJ80]

Looks like you learned a valuable lesson...that is, the point at which your wife throws up her hands and caves in. There's something to be said about pestering. :D

Seriously...you're always going to get people's opinions based on their experiences. No one is going to recommend that you purchase a POS in order to just have something. Most people here, myself and JohnJ80 included, have learned the hard way over the years by paying for something two and three times over before we realized that we weren't really saving anything by 'going cheap' initially. From the looks of things, you're going to have a nice setup...lotsa luck with it.

Truer words were never written. I think someone once said, "I'm too poor to buy low quality stuff." That applies here.

I think you are really going to enjoy this. Let us know how it all comes out and how you like your stuff. The 3530/40 tripods are really something. They are so highly stable but yet so light. Look at other tripod setups that weigh what yours does and then see what their specs are. Quite eye opening.

I went a slightly different route than you - I did the 3540LS and the Markins M20. The whole thing comes in at exactly 5lbs. It's to the point where I'm going to sell my 1258 and BH40 and then go lighter with a 1540 and Q3.

J.

[jag1]

Today I was walking behind a guy with a giotto carbon fiber tripod and a wimberly with a d2x and 400 2.8. The center colum broke and the cam and lens hit the dirt just after we stepped off of the asphalt. I was so close I was surprised that it did not hit me. You could see how the shaft ripped. not sure if this was just a freak event or something to be conserned with. He is looking at a new gitzo now. Dirt and mulch are soft no camera was hurt in this event.

Well I got an email from the guy who had his D2x hit the dirt. It seems that the giotto tripod had a leg split on monday evening. Nothing fell this time but he has already ordered a gitzo.

[wonker]

So I got the ballhead, and immediately went out for night shots. It was quite the windy day actually, so I felt that it was a good opportunity to see just how stable the tripod could hold the camera. For 30 second exposures.

The results? I really can't tell those pictures from 1/200th second shots in terms of sharpness.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3251/2421742331_350c8f8bf0_o.jpg

ISO 100, f/18, 30 sec., 5D+24-105@105mm
This shot was taken on an overpass of a highway, so wind + cars whizzing by... Still rock solid. I love this setup.

[JohnJ80]

Cool. very cool.

I presume you were on the bridge? That would also mean that cars going by drive vibration up through the feet as well as the torsional impact from wind. Actually, quite a tough situation for a tripod.

J.

[Ball4]

Truer words were never written. I think someone once said, "I'm too poor to buy low quality stuff." That applies here.

I think you are really going to enjoy this. Let us know how it all comes out and how you like your stuff. The 3530/40 tripods are really something. They are so highly stable but yet so light. Look at other tripod setups that weigh what yours does and then see what their specs are. Quite eye opening.

I went a slightly different route than you - I did the 3540LS and the Markins M20. The whole thing comes in at exactly 5lbs. It's to the point where I'm going to sell my 1258 and BH40 and then go lighter with a 1540 and Q3.

J.
JohnJ80, did you pull the trigger on the 1540/Q3 combination? If so, how's it working out?

[JohnJ80]

No, haven't done it yet. I've got to sell some stuff first and I keep going back and forth on my 1258 as being ok for travel.

I do have my BH40 up for sale, I'd like to replace it with a Q3.

J.