Never Buy from eBay - except when...

[M_ark]

They diddle up your order and you get shipped 2x 400D [XTi] instead of the one (1) you ordered and payed for... Yes, this is what happened to me.:D

It's been 2 weeks and I've opened one of them and taken 1000 shots or so... (yes, eager to get started) -the other is still in it's unopened box.

So i put it to the forum - what would you do if you were shipped 2 for the price of one?

contact the seller and try to resolve it?
list it on ebay and use the money to buy a lens?
give it to someone else who desperately wants but can't afford a camera? (keeping in mind that it's just a "Body Only" ... so no kit lens...)

[blonde]

do you really need to ask? seriously, i would think that the answer is obvious but i guess i was wrong...

[Livinthalife]

I'm honestly too honest. I would contact the seller about the issue. Though I have to admit I would be mighty tempted as keeping it as a 2nd body.

[SolidxSnake]

Since I'm always broke and fairly unethical and immoral (bite me), I'd hold onto it for a bit. After a certain amount of time if the seller hasn't contacted you asking for a return (lets say 14 days at minimum, several months at max) I'd consider it yours.

[dolfinack]

Temptation...................... argh I dunno. I'd be loathe to return it, but I am an honest boyo. Wait a wee while and see if you're contacted? If not, dance around the room and keep 'er? Is that too sneaky? No help from me I guess :confused:

[mrmacca]

who did you get it off might order myself and see what happens
lol

[M_ark]

who did you get it off might order myself and see what happens
lol

if i told you, then someone may contact the seller about this? :P

honestly seems like a one off situation.... ....?

[mrmacca]

that happened to me once when i ordered a pc from a catologue , they sent me 2 but only charged for 1 , i kept it , been over 12 months now

[jskwarek]

karma

[zapman]

lol at the computer thing, how do they mess that up??

anyway I'd hang on to it for a while and if say after 2 weeks I'd say sell it for some lens cash! or keep it for a backup body!

[Bill Roberts]

Simple... contact the seller, tell them what has happened and also that you want to send one back at their expense. Doing anything other than that would be totally dishonest.

[X-WoodButch]

I'm the type of person who couldn't live with himself or sleep at night knowing I basically stold a camera from someone. Accidents like this happen all the time and I know that what goes around comes around. I ordered a case for my "Curve" from Casemate and received two of them within three days of each other. The case cost $25.00 bucks. When I emailed Casemate to inform them of the error, they were so blown away that I even bothered telling them that they told me I could just keep the second one. So!! Now I have two for the price of one and all I had to do was be honest!;)

[steved110]

These sort of threads have come up before. Honesty is the right way to go here. Swings and round abouts, the camera is not yours to keep, and think how you would have reacted if the camera you did pay for had not turned up.

Contact the seller - it's up to them to arrange for the camera's return, at their expense. If they don't get back to you after a reasonable period - I'd say 28 days, then you in theory have the legal right to dispose of the camera as you see fit, so long as you tell them what you will do if they don't arrange for it to be collected.

[drmikeh]

Definitely contact the seller to inform them of their error. Happened to me with Calumet (not a camera - a 5 in 1 reflector) and they just told me to keep it. I WOULD however charge them the same shipping and handling to return it as they charged you - especially if they artificially inflated it!

[DDCSD]

Simple... contact the seller, tell them what has happened and also that you want to send one back at their expense. Doing anything other than that would be totally dishonest.

Agree 100%, just remember, your actions reflect on who you are.

I ordered a memory card online, didn't get the camera that needed it so I took it back to the retail store to return it. they tried giving me $45 back when I only paid about $20 for it. I told them that that was too much and the manager almost fell over that I would actually mention that they were making an error in my favor.

Sad what the world is coming to. Do you think you would like it if you had a business, made a error and shipped a wrong item and the person that received it never even mentioned it?

[RPCrowe]

If the seller was an individual or even a small business, I would definitely contact them.

However, if it was a large corporation, I might be tempted to wait until they contacted me...

If it was a Brooklyn camera store - the heck with them!

[SolidxSnake]

Those high school ethics class really helped! :lol::rolleyes:

If your strapped for cash, sell it and buy glass. If it is a smaller place return it though.


If by high school ethics class you mean the social pressure of segregation of race and social status/reputation, yeah they have paid off :)

[derky82]

Hmmmm... makes me wonder what would be the case if the tables were turned...

If you sent the seller twice as much money by paypal and didn't catch the mistake... would they alert you and cut you a check for your over-expenditure?

/ponder

-Derek

[splunkinoob]

I can live with my conscience, can you?

[adam LC]

Hmmmm, would this count as unsolicited goods? I'm not a dishonest person, but in my book... I would call that a gift. Unsolicited goods = gift.

[watson10]

that happened to me once when i ordered a pc from a catologue , they sent me 2 but only charged for 1 , i kept it , been over 12 months now

Well of course you did, you're a scouser! :D But seriously, consider it this way, if someone put 300 quid in a box by accident would you return it?

[Sparky98]

I agree with Bill. Contact the seller, explain the situation, and ask them to arrange for return at their expense. Now if they do something stupid like never arrange to have the camera shipped back then after a reasonable length of time you can keep the second camera but that probably won't happen.

[IB///M]

Simple... contact the seller, tell them what has happened and also that you want to send one back at their expense. Doing anything other than that would be totally dishonest.

That's the only right thing to do. But I think it won't be too inappropriate for you to charge them a reasonable "handling fee", since they did that to you when you bought the camera.

[mastertech01]

I would offer them an opportunity to have it returned as long as there was no issues with the original intended item recieved. If there were issues I would require the issues be dealt with appropriately and then let them know you have the spare when the transaction is settled.

[rangersvtsplash]

contact sellar as much as ya want to keep it, as i would be too i think the right thing to do here would be to atleast settle with the seller and then see what they say. ya never know someone job too could be on the line for shipping ya 2 by mistake or even docked from pay. but even then its the right thing to do. or just send it to me j/k

[blonde]

all i can say is KARMA...

[mzivtins]

all i can say is KARMA...

true.. however, what if he gave the camera to someone else who really needed it bad? someone that would grin a mile with it?

there is a thread about i dilema, someons brother wants a came and buy the sounds of it... he is going to spens ALL his money on a dslr because that is the ONLY thing he wants... seems to me like a match made in heaven :D

[Coffee999]

Keep your head above water. Return it. I'm surprized one would even have to ask such a question.

[greg20d]

Simple... contact the seller, tell them what has happened and also that you want to send one back at their expense. Doing anything other than that would be totally dishonest.

sorry I have to agree with Bill on this took the words out of my mouth
(Is that sanitary?)

[DDCSD]

true.. however, what if he gave the camera to someone else who really needed it bad? someone that would grin a mile with it?

there is a thread about i dilema, someons brother wants a came and buy the sounds of it... he is going to spens ALL his money on a dslr because that is the ONLY thing he wants... seems to me like a match made in heaven :D

Ummm... yeah, give them a new DSLR when they are broke. After all, they can just run out and start taking pictures when they get it..... Oh wait, then they need to buy a lens and memory card and....

Not exactly helping someone out by giving them a DSLR body.

Not exactly helping yourself out by stealing a DSLR body either.

[mzivtins]

donate it to POTN!

find a member with the same camera who has just had an unfortunate camera-meets-truck accident and give it to them... you could contact the seller. but im sure they wont be out of pocket on their next stock take providing they are a larger distributer.

[Welby]

Keep it. I'm sure most of you would keep it if it happened to you :lol:

[Strawberry Fields]

Since I'm always broke and fairly unethical and immoral (bite me)... I'd consider it yours.

Well, you're not so unethical. At least we know you're brutally honest about your dishonesty. :) A lot of people would do exactly what you said, but never admit to it. Those are the worst kind.



So i put it to the forum - what would you do if you were shipped 2 for the price of one?


I think my self-respect, and my sense of self-worth, is worth more than $489.99 + shipping. The US Dollar just isn't worth as much as it used to be, y'know.

Some people act nice, because they think the Eyes of the Law are watching. Other people act nice, because they think the Eyes of God are watching. That's why I like the idea of living in a society of godless heathens and anarchists. It'd make it easier to tell which people are nice, and which ones are just acting nice.


.

[Coffee999]

that happened to me once when i ordered a pc from a catologue , they sent me 2 but only charged for 1 , i kept it , been over 12 months now

You must be very proud.

[DuaneJ]

I would do what I would want someone to do if I accidentally shipped 2 for the price of 1.

[M_ark]

It seems as though something stirred you all into action about returning it? Wow, it's great to see some honesty floating around...(or maybe it's just us canon folk?)

You'll all be very happy to know i DID contact the seller a week after the cameras arrived... - I just couldn't live with my conscience and my wife both telling me that I should tell them what happened.

So I did, I told them that I ordered only 1 and 2 units had arrived and asked what steps they wanted to take to sort it out.
Then they contact me and asked how many I ordered.
So I told them again....
They contact me back asking what the payment info was.
So i told them that as well...
And they contact me back thanking me and informing me that the item was shipped.

so what? is that all? what does that leave me with?

Do i keep fighting the Engrish speakers with English and hope eventually the message gets through?

Or

Should i call it a day, having set my conscience straight about contacting the seller and feeling like the seller resolved the situation in their way?

[blonde]

true.. however, what if he gave the camera to someone else who really needed it bad? someone that would grin a mile with it?

there is a thread about i dilema, someons brother wants a came and buy the sounds of it... he is going to spens ALL his money on a dslr because that is the ONLY thing he wants... seems to me like a match made in heaven :D

so in your opinion it is ok to steal money if you are going to give it to a person that needs it?

[mzivtins]

Ummm... yeah, give them a new DSLR when they are broke. After all, they can just run out and start taking pictures when they get it..... Oh wait, then they need to buy a lens and memory card and....

Not exactly helping someone out by giving them a DSLR body.

Not exactly helping yourself out by stealing a DSLR body either.

whoa... he hasnt stolen it. he has asked what to do, and everyone is tarnishing him... dam 99% of people wouldnt believe their luck and just keep it.

at a petrol station recently filled up £8 into the bike, put the pump down, though 'oh ****' its not even full! so i picked it up again stuck another £3
went to pay for it... £3... hmmm £8 worth of free petrol, am i a bad criminal? things happen out of your control, doesnt always mean you are a bad person, if your intentions where not evil then its just circumstansial.

[ShotByTom]

How can you even question this??? Send the seller an email and tell them to send you a prepaid shipping label. I disagree...99% of people would do the right thing, if you don't have the conviction to do the right thing, then...well...many people will consider you a bad person.

[Bill Roberts]

whoa... he hasnt stolen it. he has asked what to do, and everyone is tarnishing him... dam 99% of people wouldnt believe their luck and just keep it.

at a petrol station recently filled up £8 into the bike, put the pump down, though 'oh ****' its not even full! so i picked it up again stuck another £3
went to pay for it... £3... hmmm £8 worth of free petrol, am i a bad criminal? things happen out of your control, doesnt always mean you are a bad person, if your intentions where not evil then its just circumstansial.

That's absolute rubbish.

[blonde]

whoa... he hasnt stolen it. he has asked what to do, and everyone is tarnishing him... dam 99% of people wouldnt believe their luck and just keep it.

at a petrol station recently filled up £8 into the bike, put the pump down, though 'oh ****' its not even full! so i picked it up again stuck another £3
went to pay for it... £3... hmmm £8 worth of free petrol, am i a bad criminal? things happen out of your control, doesnt always mean you are a bad person, if your intentions where not evil then its just circumstansial.

that is quite some logic you have there..... just because it just happened doesn't mean that it is right. if i am walking in front of you on the street and my wallet drops out of my back pocket with a $1000 in it (i wish), would you return it to me or would you keep it because "it just happened". after wall, you didn't steal it from me so why should you return it?

[Welby]

Well you tried telling them and they didn't listen, so i say definately keep it now. Just look out for that bolt of lightning from that dude upstairs that will strike you down :lol: As others would have you believe.

[JasonRussell]

all i can say is KARMA...
Bingo. A few years ago I would have keept it no questions asked but Not now.

For instance (not photography related) My water main broke under my driveway 2 days ago. Well on the way home from work that day I told a older man driving that his brake lights were out. Well turns out I could fix the watermain myself and found $3 on the ground in the parking lot where I was buying $6 worth of fitings and pipe to fix everything. Well I had only had $3 in cash on me when I go there. Now I had $6.

Karma ;)

[DDCSD]

whoa... he hasnt stolen it. he has asked what to do, and everyone is tarnishing him... dam 99% of people wouldnt believe their luck and just keep it.

at a petrol station recently filled up £8 into the bike, put the pump down, though 'oh ****' its not even full! so i picked it up again stuck another £3
went to pay for it... £3... hmmm £8 worth of free petrol, am i a bad criminal? things happen out of your control, doesnt always mean you are a bad person, if your intentions where not evil then its just circumstansial.

Out of your control? You knew you put 8 in, then put 3 in. The operator thought you only put the 3 in and someone else put the 8 in. You could easily have told the person what happened when you went to pay for it, but you chose not to. That was completely within your control

That is theft as is keeping something that you know you did not pay for. So yes, I do believe that makes you a criminal for stealing by way of fraud.

[mzivtins]

That's absolute rubbish.

ok so he is a criminal for recieving an extra camera in the post. :rolleyes:

thats purely circumstancial... yes the line starts to get thing when you talk about keeping it knowing that a mistake has been made.

[tiziano]

Send the seller an email and tell them to send you a prepaid shipping label.

Then, you can keep the camera and the shipping label! :D

Just kidding! :)

[watson10]

<snipped>

so what? is that all? what's that leave me with?

Do i keep fighting the Engrish speakers with English and hope eventually the message gets through?

Or

Should i call it a day, having set my conscience straight about contacting the seller and feeling like the seller resolved the situation in their way?


That makes it harder when the seller doesn't get it. They probably won't be in business too long if they keep going the way they are.

But, if it were me, it would depend on HOW I contacted them. If only by email I would feel as if I didn't do enough. If I phoned and emailed then I would start thinking about dropping the whole matter. How much effort is enough? Look like this thread is in vain, since only you can answer my last question. Hope it works out for you.

[superdiver]

A boggus question and a sad commentary on the state of affairs in the world today that the question is even raised!

No, he is not a criminal for posting the question, but this is a simple right and wrong question. If anyone cant asnwer it in the morally correct manner then that is a personal issue. We dont even have to say what the right answer is.

[mzivtins]

Out of your control? You knew you put 8 in, then put 3 in. The operator thought you only put the 3 in and someone else put the 8 in. You could easily have told the person what happened when you went to pay for it, but you chose not to. That was completely within your control

That is theft as is keeping something that you know you did not pay for. So yes, I do believe that makes you a criminal for stealing by way of fraud.

this happened once... after waiting two years for my to get back on my feet and afford my dream motorcycle again after my first one was stolen leaving a big £4000 hole in my pocket... now i just felt nothing wrong walking away after having £8 free petrol. you see you all say its a sh1t world... well i live like it is, i do not expect the same sort generousity from any other human being outside family/friends.

[blonde]

this happened once... after waiting two years for my to get back on my feet and afford my dream motorcycle again after my first one was stolen leaving a big £4000 hole in my pocket... now i just felt nothing wrong walking away after having £8 free petrol. you see you all say its a sh1t world... well i live like it is, i do not expect the same sort generousity from any other human being outside family/friends.

so because someone stole from you it is ok for you to steal from someone else? god help us all...

[segasaturn]

It seems as though something stirred you all into action about returning it? Wow, it's great to see some honesty floating around...(or maybe it's just us canon folk?)

You'll all be very happy to know i DID contact the seller a week after the cameras arrived... - I just couldn't live with my conscience and my wife both telling me that I should tell them what happened.

So I did, I told them that I ordered only 1 and 2 units had arrived and asked what steps they wanted to take to sort it out.
Then they contact me and asked how many I ordered.
So I told them again....
They contact me back asking what the payment info was.
So i told them that as well...
And they contact me back thanking me and informing me that the item was shipped.

so what? is that all? what does that leave me with?

Do i keep fighting the Engrish speakers with English and hope eventually the message gets through?

Or

Should i call it a day, having set my conscience straight about contacting the seller and feeling like the seller resolved the situation in their way?

Let me make this easy for you. KEEP IT ALREADY. You made TWO honest attempts to return it.

I was an eBay PowerSeller for over 5 years. As the seller, I was always trying to fix things for the customers. I'm sure in the 5000 items that I've shipped, I've probably slipped in a few extra mistakes for the customers, but was never contacted. But if I were to miss an item, the customer would go crazy, like it was the end of the world.

All these people telling you about karma and doing the right moral thing... Maybe they are telling you what they would really do, but maybe they aren't.

The right moral things to do would be to ship it back at your expense. Think about it, you find a lost dog. You take him in, feed him with your money, spend your time looking for the owner, NOT thinking in the back of your mind that you want a reward. That's the "right" thing to do. In this case, the "right" thing to do is to ship it back to the owner at your expense, not expecting a reward.

I personally say to keep the damn thing, but I'm probably just evil. Let's see if any of moral person here will to front you the shipping fee to keep everyone's karma in balance.

[SolidxSnake]

A boggus question and a sad commentary on the state of affairs in the world today that the question is even raised!

No, he is not a criminal for posting the question, but this is a simple right and wrong question. If anyone cant asnwer it in the morally correct manner then that is a personal issue. We dont even have to say what the right answer is.

Same principle applies to schools and tests? I know most of my teachers, if I were to get a problem marked wrong on a test I took that I answered correctly, if I were to tell the teacher he or she would let me keep it due to it being their mistake. What's so bad about keeping a camera that a company has sent accidentally and hasn't made any initiative to accept back (even after the buyer contacted the seller.

Since you let them know and they made a completely irrelevant response, I'd say the camera is yours OP. Good for you.

Is it dishonest if you don't speak up?

And BTW... karma is BS, equivalent exchange is BS, etc.

[DAMphyne]

contact sellar as much as ya want to keep it, as i would be too i think the right thing to do here would be to atleast settle with the seller and then see what they say. ya never know someone job too could be on the line for shipping ya 2 by mistake or even docked from pay. but even then its the right thing to do. or just send it to me j/k

Are you going to share the guilt?;)

[blonde]

Same principle applies to schools and tests? I know most of my teachers, if I were to get a problem marked wrong on a test I took that I answered correctly, if I were to tell the teacher he or she would let me keep it due to it being their mistake.

Is it dishonest if you don't speak up?

And BTW... karma is BS, equivalent exchange is BS, etc.

1) you are going to have to explain that first part to me again...

2) yes, it is dishonest

3) says who? btw, did you bring the equivalent exchange from The Full Metal Alchemist or am i way off base here?

[number six]

You'll all be very happy to know i DID contact the seller a week after the cameras arrived...
(snip)
And they contact me back thanking me and informing me that the item was shipped.

so what? is that all? what does that leave me with?

Do i keep fighting the Engrish speakers with English and hope eventually the message gets through?



If I were you I'd try to explain again. I assume you're communicating through eBay (any other email route could have problems, but with eBay messages theres a trail).

I'd definitely check my credit card to make sure I wasn't billed a second time.

Why is this happening, you might wonder. Well, here's one scenario: the person you're dealing with works for a nasty company and if it's found that he shipped two he'll get fired. I've seen this kind of coverup in my own job, with a very large American communications corporation. (Happily that's all in my past.)

-js

[Coffee999]

Same principle applies to schools and tests? I know most of my teachers, if I were to get a problem marked wrong on a test I took that I answered correctly, if I were to tell the teacher he or she would let me keep it due to it being their mistake. What's so bad about keeping a camera that a company has sent accidentally and hasn't made any initiative to accept back (even after the buyer contacted the seller.

Since you let them know and they made a completely irrelevant response, I'd say the camera is yours OP. Good for you.

Is it dishonest if you don't speak up?

And BTW... karma is BS, equivalent exchange is BS, etc.

Just wait till you get married. You'll have your answer. Hehe

[JWright]

They diddle up your order and you get shipped 2x 400D [XTi] instead of the one (1) you ordered and payed for... Yes, this is what happened to me.:D

It's been 2 weeks and I've opened one of them and taken 1000 shots or so... (yes, eager to get started) -the other is still in it's unopened box.

So i put it to the forum - what would you do if you were shipped 2 for the price of one?

contact the seller and try to resolve it?
list it on ebay and use the money to buy a lens?
give it to someone else who desperately wants but can't afford a camera? (keeping in mind that it's just a "Body Only" ... so no kit lens...)

I was going to say that if you have to ask, then you're pondering the wrong decision. However...

It seems as though something stirred you all into action about returning it? Wow, it's great to see some honesty floating around...(or maybe it's just us canon folk?)

You'll all be very happy to know i DID contact the seller a week after the cameras arrived... - I just couldn't live with my conscience and my wife both telling me that I should tell them what happened.

So I did, I told them that I ordered only 1 and 2 units had arrived and asked what steps they wanted to take to sort it out.
Then they contact me and asked how many I ordered.
So I told them again....
They contact me back asking what the payment info was.
So i told them that as well...
And they contact me back thanking me and informing me that the item was shipped.

so what? is that all? what does that leave me with?

Do i keep fighting the Engrish speakers with English and hope eventually the message gets through?

Or

Should i call it a day, having set my conscience straight about contacting the seller and feeling like the seller resolved the situation in their way?

I say give it another shot at contacting the seller and letting them know you received two cameras instead of the one you ordered (and paid for). If you get the same response, then consider the camera yours. Just make sure you keep copies of everything relating to the transactions and your attempts to contact them; receipts, e-mails, etc., in case it comes back on you in the future. I doubt anyone can find fault with you if you have made good-faith attempts to return the second camera.

[Gridlock]

the fact that you asked shows you know the proper path to take here. i know it would constantly bother me on some level if i didnt make an attempt to contact the seller.

i think after the attempts at communication that you have been through already i would prolly say cool whatever and keep it :)
some would try more, some wouldn't try at all. its all up to what you can live with i guess.

[superdiver]

If you let them know and they say keep it, then fine...that I dont have a problem with, but thats not the way the original question was posed..at least not the way I read it.

I had the same thing happen on ebay with a squash raquet. I got ahold of the seller and asked what they wanted me to do with the 2nd one. They said to keep it since it was a pain to send back and refund and all that. Now that was a cheap raquet which is a bit differnt then a camera. BUT, if they said to keep the 2nd one then I have no problem with that. If the teacher said to keep the score they mistakenly gave you, then thats fine too.

But neither of these examples are what the original question ws related to...

[M_ark]

That makes it harder when the seller doesn't get it. They probably won't be in business too long if they keep going the way they are.
This was exactly my thought... - be out of business, and probably start a junk shop in the middle isle of some shopping centre somewhere selling socks and nik-naks

How much effort is enough?

another tough question...
i think i've done the right thing, but it's another 'mistake' on the part of the seller not to understand the purpose of my message to him. That, and there's no phone number for the seller.

The idea of giving it away feels more selfless than trading it for glass, i know how i would have felt if someone had given me a camera like it back when i was just using a little P&S...

what i didn't detail earlier was that the camera came with a 2gb card (yeah, only 50x) and extra battery too... so all one would need is an EF lens?

[JenniferLShort]

Karma!!! It bites!!! Return it.... I would. Plus, every time you use it you will think about it. Return it! jmo...

[superdiver]

Is it dishonest if you don't speak up?

And BTW... karma is BS, equivalent exchange is BS, etc.


Aboslutely dishonest!

Honesty has nothing to do with Karma, but whats right and wrong...no matter how you put the question "dishonesty" be shere deffinition is NOT BEING HONEST.

If not being honest is OK..well, thats just messed up... When it gets to the point that killing someone is "OK" will it actually be "OK" then.

[SlowBlink]

Anything that requires this much rationalization is dishonest. I don't believe in reincarnation so Karma doesn't apply for me, just common sense and what I'd expect some one to do if it was reversed. If they double charged you I'm sure you wouldn't need to start a thread asking if that was fair.

[M_ark]

I was an eBay PowerSeller for over 5 years.<snip> ...but I'm probably just evil.

OMG IT's TRUE!
- way out of context, but funny all the same-

[Coffee999]

Anything that requires this much rationalization is dishonest. I don't believe in reincarnation so Karma doesn't apply for me, just common sense and what I'd expect some one to do if it was reversed. If they double charged you I'm sure you wouldn't need to start a thread asking if that was fair.

Wonderful Point!!!

[ooo]

I say just keep the camera. If you return the camera, you can give yourself a pat on your back. You can feel good that you did the right thing, but in the end the company is not going to remember you, and they are not going to be grateful. Maybe they will be grateful for a brief second, but a minute later they'll just go on with their business. It's not like they even noticed inventory was lost.

Now if this was a special item to someone, obviously the right choice would be to return it.

Now to everyone who said return the camera, can you honestly tell me you've never stolen anything from anyone? Whether, it was food that was not suppose to be yours (a piece of gum from the grocery store, a bag of chips, your brother's portion of food, an extra desert), coins from a piggy bank because you wanted to go see the movies, etc. I'm sure everybody has stolen something from someone before. Have you ever picked money off the floor? A penny, a nickel, a dollar... in the end its still stealing, because its not rightfully yours.

[Pen6uiN]

you've done the right thing in contacting the seller

and they seem to not understand

i think its safe to say that you can KEEP the 2nd body

you obviously do not want to incur extra charge for postage to send it back to the seller

you can:
give it to someone as present
OR give it to your wife
OR donate it to some charity organization if you feel bad about it

[KarlMarsh]

It seems as though something stirred you all into action about returning it? Wow, it's great to see some honesty floating around...(or maybe it's just us canon folk?)

You'll all be very happy to know i DID contact the seller a week after the cameras arrived... - I just couldn't live with my conscience and my wife both telling me that I should tell them what happened.

So I did, I told them that I ordered only 1 and 2 units had arrived and asked what steps they wanted to take to sort it out.
Then they contact me and asked how many I ordered.
So I told them again....
They contact me back asking what the payment info was.
So i told them that as well...
And they contact me back thanking me and informing me that the item was shipped.


So the story changes.

Hmm, did it have a return address?

When I read your first version I thought you should return. When I read and doubted your second version I still thought you should return it. Do the right thing.

[Rubberhead]

What is more likely to haunt you two years from now; having sent one back and regretting not owning two identical cameras or having two identical cameras but with no chance of ever making the situation right?

[M_ark]

So the story changes.<snip>

no, just progresses... everything sofar that has happened, has happened, just because i didn't put it all in the first post doesn't mean i'm changing anything.

plus, what wouldn't be the point of 'faking' a non-sense reply from the seller... :confused:

[DDCSD]

It seems as though something stirred you all into action about returning it? Wow, it's great to see some honesty floating around...(or maybe it's just us canon folk?)

You'll all be very happy to know i DID contact the seller a week after the cameras arrived... - I just couldn't live with my conscience and my wife both telling me that I should tell them what happened.

So I did, I told them that I ordered only 1 and 2 units had arrived and asked what steps they wanted to take to sort it out.
Then they contact me and asked how many I ordered.
So I told them again....
They contact me back asking what the payment info was.
So i told them that as well...
And they contact me back thanking me and informing me that the item was shipped.

so what? is that all? what does that leave me with?

Do i keep fighting the Engrish speakers with English and hope eventually the message gets through?

Or

Should i call it a day, having set my conscience straight about contacting the seller and feeling like the seller resolved the situation in their way?

Well, I'd make a couple more attempts at least. Since you got an extra battery and memory card, maybe keep those (as payment for shipping) and pay for return shipping.

The fact that you have gone through this much proves that you are honest and I suspect that you would feel a fair amount of guilt if you didn't return the camera, even if you gave it for a worthy cause. When I was 8 I stole a pack of gum from a store. I couldn't even go back into the store after that because of the guilt. I went in and gave them 75 cents when I was in high school. Made me feel pretty good, even though it really didn't mean much.

[blonde]

I say just keep the camera. If you return the camera, you can give yourself a pat on your back. You can feel good that you did the right thing, but in the end the company is not going to remember you, and they are not going to be grateful. Maybe they will be grateful for a brief second, but a minute later they'll just go on with their business. It's not like they even noticed inventory was lost.

Now if this was a special item to someone, obviously the right choice would be to return it.

Now to everyone who said return the camera, can you honestly tell me you've never stolen anything from anyone? Whether, it was food that was not suppose to be yours (a piece of gum from the grocery store, a bag of chips, your brother's portion of food, an extra desert), coins from a piggy bank because you wanted to go see the movies, etc. I'm sure everybody has stolen something from someone before. Have you ever picked money off the floor? A penny, a nickel, a dollar... in the end its still stealing, because its not rightfully yours.

so you only do the right thing if somebody is going to appreciate it and be grateful for it?

as for your other question, i did steal from a store but i was a stupid young boy. we are not talking about a kid stealing a piece of gum here, we are talking about adults that should know better.

[DDCSD]

On a side note, I wouldn't buy from the seller again. Imagine if you had a problem with your order and needed to have something made right.

[Welby]

The guy hasn't stolen anything for a start. Let's say you by a pack of 6 donuts and there's 7 in there, do you take it back? I bet you don't, the only reason you lot are telling him to is because of the items value.

[blonde]

nobody is saying that he stole it, we are talking in general now. as for the donuts, i probably wouldn't drive back to return one donut but next time i am buying donuts, i would either give an extra dollar or tip the guy/girl a dollar.

you also have to look at the possible repercussion of your actions. the chances that the Dunkin Donuts employee will get fired for giving an extra donut by mistake are VERY slim while the chances of the guy that works in the shipping department getting fired for shipping an extra DSLR by mistake are MUCH higher.

[DDCSD]

The guy hasn't stolen anything for a start. Let's say you by a pack of 6 donuts and there's 7 in there, do you take it back? I bet you don't, the only reason you lot are telling him to is because of the items value.

I'm not sure that anyone said the OP stole anything. But it is comparable to theft no attempt is made to return the camera. keeping something that you did not pay for would be theft.

If you get your neighbor's credit card in you mailbox, does that give you the right to use it?

And yes, the value does come into play. The donut comparison is hogwash, as most of the time you buy donuts, they put 1 or 2 extra in the box anyways as a standard practice.

[M_ark]

it's almost funny, but i have to admit, if it happened to someone else - i would tell them to contact the buyer (and not consider keeping it), but because it's me suddenly the 'keeping it' option has distinct advantages...

Justifying keeping it because "everyone else has probably stolen something in the past" doesn't justify the act. If what other people have done (several or everyone) justifies what we do today then there would not be a 'court of law'...(ie thevies and murderes would be justified by the acts of their predicessors(sp?))

returning the product would likely cause the seller to contact me and asked why i'd returned it... .... for some reason that option seems wearysome because i'd have to talk to the seller again via messages on ebay, 6 of which have been so abismally fruitless thus far.

[DDCSD]

it's almost funny, but i have to admit, if it happened to someone else - i would tell them to contact the buyer (and not consider keeping it), but because it's me suddenly the 'keeping it' option has distinct advantages...

Justifying keeping it because "everyone else has probably stolen something in the past" doesn't justify the act. If what other people have done (several or everyone) justifies what we do today then there would not be a 'court of law'...(ie thevies and murderes would be justified by the acts of their predicessors(sp?))

returning the product would likely cause the seller to contact me and asked why i'd returned it... .... for some reason that option seems wearysome because i'd have to talk to the seller again via messages on ebay, 6 of which have been so abismally fruitless thus far.

You could always leave them negative feedback, that usually gets their attention.


If you do return it with a note explaining what happened and they send you another one, then I'd say you can keep it. :lol:

[ooo]

so you only do the right thing if somebody is going to appreciate it and be grateful for it?

as for your other question, i did steal from a store but i was a stupid young boy. we are not talking about a kid stealing a piece of gum here, we are talking about adults that should know better.

No, I'm just trying to say if the owner didn't even realize they've lost an item, then it probably doesn't mean much to them, in terms of business / money, etc. It's normal for businesses to lose inventory due to damage or some other unknown reason (like mailing out duplicate items).

I agree with Welby, lets ignore my previous argument and say we found millions of dollars on some remote island. Humor me. A) Would you try to return the money? B) Keep it for yourself. Subconsciously we might be telling him to return the item because we weren't fortunate enough to receive a duplicate item in the mail.

When I mail out ebay stuff, I always through in freebie stuff that I didn't list. You don't see them contacting me saying oh by the way you gave me an additional item. I was selling off some old games and consoles. I threw some free games along with the consoles, and no one contacted me back. I threw in some game guides with some games, no one contacted me saying bytheway you know you shipped an additional item?

[SlowBlink]

returning the product would likely cause the seller to contact me and asked why i'd returned it... .... for some reason that option seems wearysome because i'd have to talk to the seller again via messages on ebay, 6 of which have been so abismally fruitless thus far.

I know what you mean. I often have to stop in the middle of an email because it's so exhausting. Great thread, it will cut down my browsing time in the sell forums. :)

[DDCSD]

No, I'm just trying to say if the owner didn't even realize they've lost an item, then it probably doesn't mean much to them, in terms of business / money, etc. It's normal for businesses to lose inventory due to damage or some other unknown reason (like mailing out duplicate items).

Doesn't make it right, and the owner that is taking the loss has no idea what is going on.

I agree with Welby, lets ignore my previous argument and say we found millions of dollars on some remote island. Humor me. A) Would you try to return the money? B) Keep it for yourself. Subconsciously we might be telling him to return the item because we weren't fortunate enough to receive a duplicate item in the mail.

Nope, I can't believe it is so hard for some people to believe that there are truly honest people in this world.

When I mail out ebay stuff, I always through in freebie stuff that I didn't list. You don't see them contacting me saying oh by the way you gave me an additional item. I was selling off some old games and consoles. I threw some free games along with the consoles, and no one contacted me back. I threw in some game guides with some games, no one contacted me saying bytheway you know you shipped an additional item?

Someone over payed me by $1 when I sold some movies on ebay, so I stuck a dollar bill in the package. I emailed them and told them it was in there and they emailed " Oh, OK" back to me. You don't do the right thing because you are recognized for it or because someone will appreciate it, you do it because it is right.

[X-WoodButch]

My thought's exactly!!;)


Someone over payed me by $1 when I sold some movies on ebay, so I stuck a dollar bill in the package. I emailed them and told them it was in there and they emailed " Oh, OK" back to me. You don't do the right thing because you are recognized for it or because someone will appreciate it, you do it because it is right.[/quote]

[Welby]

If you get your neighbor's credit card in you mailbox, does that give you the right to use it?



Huh not even close to what has happened. You'd have to knowingly enter the card number. You've made a decision to commit fraud, the OP hasn't made any decision to do anything illegally. Take it as a win and keep it. I'm sure you'll get plenty of losses in life and you need the wins to even it out ;)

[TeamSpeed]

No, I'm just trying to say if the owner didn't even realize they've lost an item, then it probably doesn't mean much to them, in terms of business / money, etc. It's normal for businesses to lose inventory due to damage or some other unknown reason (like mailing out duplicate items).

I agree with Welby, lets ignore my previous argument and say we found millions of dollars on some remote island. Humor me. A) Would you try to return the money? B) Keep it for yourself. Subconsciously we might be telling him to return the item because we weren't fortunate enough to receive a duplicate item in the mail.


Two completely different scenarios? The first one is that you ordered an item, and YOU know that the 2nd one you received WAS IN ERROR. This puts the responsibility of morality and personal ethics on YOU, not the company that made the mistake and doesn't catch it. This has absolutely nothing to do with the company that made the mistake, period.

In going to a remote island and finding money, that is not even remotely the same as this situation. A better scenario would be you go to your bank or credit union, and withdraw a million, and when you get home, you find the teller gave you two million. Now what will you do? Will you return it because 1) you know it was a mistake and want to make it right or 2) you know they will catch it and you are afraid of the consequences if you don't? Or do you not even try to do anything and hope nobody will catch it?

Your personal intentions on why you do or don't disclose an obvious mistake you know to have been in your favor made speaks volumes about your character.

In this case, the OP's reasoning has prevailed and I think maybe one more attempt in contacting the seller might be warranted, but if the seller still doesn't get it, I don't know what else can be reasonably attempted. The OP did the right thing with the intent on shipping the item back if they would give him the RMA and shipping label for it, but they don't even get it. The OP did his moral obligation with the correct intentions in the end, so kudos, that was the correct thing to do. You most likely will end up with the extra body, but at least you know you tried to contact them to let them know you would like to send it back to them, but if they don't understand, what do you do? I think at that point, you have done what is needed.

[ajosteve]

I would return it to them! Now, all you folks here that say keep it, Gee I don't think I would buy something from you off the forum. I would not trust you at all! Honesty is the best policy....

[arg245]

The Golden Rule applies. Do the right thing and return it. You'll feel better, the seller will feel better, and everybody wins. If you keep it, you'll have gained a second body, but will have lost a bit of something infinitely more valuable.

[eddarr]

THE QUESTION WAS ANSWERED IN THE SECOND POST.

CONTACT THE SELLER AND SEND IT BACK.

THIS IS THE ONLY CORRECT ANSWER.

End rant - hopefully the OP has already made the decision they can live with.

[TeamSpeed]

The Golden Rule applies. Do the right thing and return it. You'll feel better, the seller will feel better, and everybody wins. If you keep it, you'll have gained a second body, but will have lost a bit of something infinitely more valuable.

Buying items from Ebay and simply returning them to the shipping address on the box is very dangerous. You don't know if they use drop shippers, and really do have to contact the seller to make sure they know. Returning to the shipping address may not do anything at all for the seller if your intent is to make things right with them. Buying from Ebay is not like buying from an online store for brick and mortars, you don't know exactly what the arrangements are from ebay sellers.

[TeamSpeed]

THE QUESTION WAS ANSWERED IN THE SECOND POST.

CONTACT THE SELLER AND SEND IT BACK.

THIS IS THE ONLY CORRECT ANSWER.

And if you read the posts after, the buyer did that, but the seller doesn't understand the situation.

[Gridlock]

wow look at that horse, its a good foot into the ground now... :)

[eddarr]

Oh crap, how did I miss that?? I thought I skimmed pretty thoroughly. Glad someone was paying attention.

I just cut the legs off of my high horse.

[number six]

Buying items from Ebay and simply returning them to the shipping address on the box is very dangerous. You don't know if they use drop shippers, and really do have to contact the seller to make sure they know. Returning to the shipping address may not do anything at all for the seller if your intent is to make things right with them.

Glad you mentioned that. I was thinking the same thing.

There are two independent issues here - what's the right thing to do and what's the legally sound thing to do. You can do the first and get in trouble. You can do the second and have trouble living with yourself...

-js

[M_ark]

Buying items from Ebay and simply returning them to the shipping address on the box is very dangerous. You don't know if they use drop shippers, and really do have to contact the seller to make sure they know. Returning to the shipping address may not do anything at all for the seller if your intent is to make things right with them. Buying from Ebay is not like buying from an online store for brick and mortars, you don't know exactly what the arrangements are from ebay sellers.

This is a fair comment, thanks, I hadn't thought of that.
I think all the same, I will contact the seller and tell them as simply and clearly as possible that they sent 2.
probably something like;
"Hello,
Regarding my purchase: blah
You've sent 2.
Thanks"
-buyer

that should be clear enough to get their attention, then they can say "oh, ok, well please send the second one back"
- or "We don't sell any yellow on Thursdays."
and if it's the latter, then i will assume there is no point trying to get through to them.

[number six]

This is a very useful thread, M_ark.

It's clear that you're a standup guy and will do the right thing. What's right for you may not satisfy others, but that's always the way. But the Golden Rule is universal.

The thread is useful because it helps us get to know some of our fellow POTN members. Some are clueless, some demonstrate a nuanced understanding of ethical issues, and lots are muddled in the middle. :D

And some are upright and some are bent. That's good to know next time I want to buy (or sell) equipment here.

EDIT: hey mods - how about making this thread a sticky in buy/sell?
:cool:

-js

[DDCSD]

This is a fair comment, thanks, I hadn't thought of that.
I think all the same, I will contact the seller and tell them as simply and clearly as possible that they sent 2.
probably something like;
"Hello,
Regarding my purchase: blah
You've sent 2.
Thanks"
-buyer

that should be clear enough to get their attention, then they can say "oh, ok, well please send the second one back"
- or "We don't sell any yellow on Thursdays."
and if it's the latter, then i will assume there is no point trying to get through to them.


I'd change that "you've sent 2" to "...incorrectly sent the wrong number of items." Or something to that nature.

Good luck.

[number six]

This is a fair comment, thanks, I hadn't thought of that.
I think all the same, I will contact the seller and tell them as simply and clearly as possible that they sent 2.
probably something like;
"Hello,
Regarding my purchase: blah
You've sent 2.
Thanks"
-buyer

that should be clear enough to get their attention, then they can say "oh, ok, well please send the second one back"
- or "We don't sell any yellow on Thursdays."
and if it's the latter, then i will assume there is no point trying to get through to them.

:lol::lol:

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Think. Whatever.

A good faith effort is enough.

-js

[TeamSpeed]

This is a fair comment, thanks, I hadn't thought of that.
I think all the same, I will contact the seller and tell them as simply and clearly as possible that they sent 2.
probably something like;
"Hello,
Regarding my purchase: blah
You've sent 2.
Thanks"
-buyer

that should be clear enough to get their attention, then they can say "oh, ok, well please send the second one back"
- or "We don't sell any yellow on Thursdays."
and if it's the latter, then i will assume there is no point trying to get through to them.

I think if you do this and you still don't get anywhere, you should consider yourself in the clear. I sell things online, I own an e-business (Invisicord.com), and if you were a customer that told me in no uncertain and easy to understand terms that I sent the wrong items or the wrong number of items, and I didn't get it, you are fine to keep the items.

[medic-on-fire]

Great discussion! Some good points have been made, favoring both sides of this issue.

I personally would contact the seller and make the arrangements to return the spare body. If for no other reason, it's because my luck would be that I would successfully sell the extra body and I'd use the money to buy some sweet glass, only to find that there is dust or scratches or something effecting IQ.

You know what they say: "What goes around, comes around."

Karma is a pretty powerful force. It seems like you know what you need to do about this situation.

Good luck!

[M_ark]

ok, so, all you player-haters out there, here's one for y'all:
Dear <Ebay seller>,

Hi!
Regarding my purchase: <product description>
It seems you've sent the wrong number of items.

- <Buyer>

i just sent this message to the seller - we'll see what the response is and let y'all know :)
[edit: i hope thats the right use of the term 'player-haters' ....?]
[remember i'm trying to keep this as simple as possible so as not to confuse the seller]

it should also be noted that when i bought the item, the seller had more than 50 similar items for sale (mostly 40D kits) and other random stuff - now there's 3 items for sale...:(

[clark becker]

contact the seller.

[clark becker]

you posted while i was typing, hope they just let you have it.

[therealmr]

Since I'm always broke and fairly unethical and immoral (bite me), I'd hold onto it for a bit. After a certain amount of time if the seller hasn't contacted you asking for a return (lets say 14 days at minimum, several months at max) I'd consider it yours.

It's their responsibility to contact you in the event that there was a shipping error. If they don't, it was an error they overlooked and will learn to (next time) double-check orders. While Kant's view on ethics (categorical imperialism) would say that this is the wrong action for you to take.... I like to think that Kant was a dumbass.

[opus13]

A few years ago i ordered a 24" display from dell. a 24" and a 20" arrived.

I call them up to tell them what happened, and they said "Oh. Well send it back". I said that was fine, and to simply email me a shipping label so i could drop it off at UPS. They wouldn't do it. The rep actually said "But it's not our fault. We aren't going to cover shipping".

Yeah. that was great. the best part was 4 weeks later they charged my card for the second display. i decided to not bother with dell and just called my Bank. 48 hours later the amount was refunded and i had a shipping label in my inbox.

Next time, I am just going to keep the damn thing. I know i'll pay for it somehow.

[JWright]

I'm not sure that anyone said the OP stole anything. But it is comparable to theft no attempt is made to return the camera. keeping something that you did not pay for would be theft.

The OP has made an attempt to return the camera. Twice, if I read the thread correctly. If the seller still doesn't understand the situation after two attempts, I think the OP has discharged his duty.

[ed rader]

Hmmmm... makes me wonder what would be the case if the tables were turned...

If you sent the seller twice as much money by paypal and didn't catch the mistake... would they alert you and cut you a check for your over-expenditure?

/ponder

-Derek

i keep my side of the street as clean as possible and let others worry about their side :D.

ed rader

[ed rader]

whoa... he hasnt stolen it. he has asked what to do, and everyone is tarnishing him... dam 99% of people wouldnt believe their luck and just keep it.

at a petrol station recently filled up £8 into the bike, put the pump down, though 'oh ****' its not even full! so i picked it up again stuck another £3
went to pay for it... £3... hmmm £8 worth of free petrol, am i a bad criminal? things happen out of your control, doesnt always mean you are a bad person, if your intentions where not evil then its just circumstansial.

if i find your wallet full of money and i keep it what would you think?

"just circumstansial" :D?

ed rader

[thatkatmat]

I'd send it back....what goes around comes around....Karma....cause and effect....Sounds like rubbish, but it isn't. Do good things and good things will happen.
If you've ever been on the opposite side you shouldn't even think twice
I like what Ed said about keeping his side of the street clean...that works for me too.

[M_ark]

keeping something that you did not pay for would be theft.

I would have to disagree. To me, theft implies thought and action taken to acquire goods without payment.

Where something is sent or given, it should be considered a gift. But not all gifts are without obligations...ie. a gift of Cinema tickets requires you to go to the cinema.
In this case, because it was delivered to me means that while it's in my possesion, it's 'mine' from a cursory point of view, but legally, i have only paid for 1.... so i don't have the paperwork stating that i own the second. (like a house deed or product receipt)

i guess it comes down to: Possesion does not impart or imply 'ownership'.
The 'Finders-Keepers' rule applies where there is no other party to claim prior ownership. but what if there is? [that would make 'Finders-Givers-Backers' ?]

Then again, you don't get paperwork and receipts for all your Christmas gifts do you?
It comes down to this:
I wouldn't feel 'bad' about keeping it, where the seller has not contacted me about their mistake BUT;
I would feel better about the situation (keeping it/sending it back) if the seller at least knew he'd made a mistake in the first place. (action taken after that determines what happens to the goods)
Anyway it's all up in the air until the seller gets back to me.

[ed rader]

I would have to disagree. To me, theft implies thought and action taken to acquire goods without payment.

Where something is sent or given, it should be considered a gift. But not all gifts are without obligations...ie. a gift of Cinema tickets requires you to go to the cinema.
In this case, because it was delivered to me means that while it's in my possesion, it's 'mine' from a cursory point of view, but legally, i have only paid for 1.... so i don't have the paperwork stating that i own the second. (like a house deed or product receipt)

i guess it comes down to: Possesion does not impart or imply 'ownership'.
The 'Finders-Keepers' rule applies where there is no other party to claim prior ownership. but what if there is? [that would make 'Finders-Givers-Backers' ?]

Then again, you don't get paperwork and receipts for all your Christmas gifts do you?
It comes down to this:
I wouldn't feel 'bad' about keeping it, where the seller has not contacted me about their mistake BUT;
I would feel better about the situation (keeping it/sending it back) if the seller at least knew he'd made a mistake in the first place. (action taken after that determines what happens to the goods)
Anyway it's all up in the air until the seller gets back to me.


you have the sellers address. just send the camera back. you didn't pay for it and it was not a gift.

the seller made a mistake and you are the only one who can make it right :D.

ed rader

[WillOPhotos]

depends how big a company they are in my opinion haha if they are a massive business they wouldnt even notice or would write it off on insurance as stolen lol.

[ed rader]

The OP has made an attempt to return the camera. Twice, if I read the thread correctly. If the seller still doesn't understand the situation after two attempts, I think the OP has discharged his duty.


no he hasn't. stick that camera in a box and mail it back to the seller. that's what i call "an attempt to return the camera."

ed rader

[Stormin_24]

you have the sellers address. just send the camera back. you didn't pay for it and it was not a gift.

the seller made a mistake and you are the only one who can make it right :D.

ed rader

Very clearly stated as I see it and AGREE... It's the right thing to do...

[elitejp]

Reminds me of two different occasions.
One situation i was waitering at a resteraunt and found a $100 bill lying on the floor directly outside of kitchen. Indicating it had to be another servers. But you just cant ask who has lost $100. Alot of people may say it was them.
At the end of the night I told the manager that i had found some money. And asked him if he could ask the servers when they were paying up for the night if they thought they were missing some money. I saw one server counting his money again and agian and again. So i asked him whats wrong. He was the type that didnt like to talk to anyone. Finally after asking him several times how he did for the night he answered that he didnt make any money and actually owes money. I told him what I found and gave it to him. That made a huge impression on him.
Another time the school i just started working for paid me too much. We had a holiday and I ddint work that day becasue we were given the day off but they forgot. Working that day would have put me in overtime and thats waht they paid me. I told them that they gave me too much and we went throught he books to check it. Sure enough I was right. After that day whenever I went in there and told them that my pay was short or had any other discrepencies, they never argued with me. They just said we trust you and paid it.

I understand wanting to keep the camera. But if you still dont think it is stealing, why dont you just ask the person who sent it to you if he thinks its stealing if you dont return it?

[roman_t]

if i was you i'd send it back at sellers expense. and if i am that seller i'd send back some useful thing for your camera like 16gb cf, batteries or nice backpack.

[ed rader]

Reminds me of two different occasions.
One situation i was waitering at a resteraunt and found a $100 bill lying on the floor directly outside of kitchen. Indicating it had to be another servers. But you just cant ask who has lost $100. Alot of people may say it was them.
At the end of the night I told the manager that i had found some money. And asked him if he could ask the servers when they were paying up for the night if they thought they were missing some money. I saw one server counting his money again and agian and again. So i asked him whats wrong. He was the type that didnt like to talk to anyone. Finally after asking him several times how he did for the night he answered that he didnt make any money and actually owes money. I told him what I found and gave it to him. That made a huge impression on him.
Another time the school i just started working for paid me too much. We had a holiday and I ddint work that day becasue we were given the day off but they forgot. Working that day would have put me in overtime and thats waht they paid me. I told them that they gave me too much and we went throught he books to check it. Sure enough I was right. After that day whenever I went in there and told them that my pay was short or had any other discrepencies, they never argued with me. They just said we trust you and paid it.

I understand wanting to keep the camera. But if you still dont think it is stealing, why dont you just ask the person who sent it to you if he thinks its stealing if you dont return it?


a couple of thoughts here and that's all i'm going to say.

1) the longer the OP keeps the camera the less likely he will return it.

2) i believe the OP wants to do the "right thing" and that's why he posted the story here in the first place.

good luck :D!

ed rader

[ed rader]

if i was you i'd send it back at sellers expense. and if i am that seller i'd send back some useful thing for your camera like 16gb cf, batteries or nice backpack.

i recently had a customer send me a check for $900....but her daughter had already paid me a month before.

i send the check back to her and i never got a thank you or kiss my a** or anything :D.

i know it sounds corny but honesty really is its own reward :D.


ohhhhh....another time waaay back when i left my wallet at a phone booth. i didn't realize it until i got home and it made me sick because i had to cancel my credit cards, get another SS card etc etc....or so i thought.

a few minutes later i got a call from a hotel and they said they had my wallet. someone found it at the phone booth and took it to front desk.

i figured at least my money would be gone but when i got my wallet there was a big rubber band around it and everything was there .

okay that's really it for me :D.

ed rader

[flipfellah]

sell it lol

[SlowBlink]

Who would have thought doing the right thing would take eight pages to figure out huh. I thought you only paid for one, therefore one of them "does not" belong to you. It doesn't matter if the rightful owner doesn't speak English to your satisfaction or how big the company is or if it's insured or not. Contact EBay and advise them you have his camera and they'll have someone contact him for return information.

[roman_t]

i recently had a customer send me a check for $900....but her daughter had already paid me a month before.
i send the check back to her and i never got a thank you or kiss my a** or anything :D.
i know it sounds corny but honesty really is its own reward :D.
ed rader
i think their trust in your good name costs much more. what is even more important what you think about yourself after all.
once i found a cell phone and there was owners home number in its contact list. i called and then they started screaming at me like i was a thief. next day i thrown that cell to river. it was very nice heavy nokia model and i felt very good throwing it so far :-)

[ALaS]

Hold it ransom for twice you paid!

[elitejp]

Ed rader
You know whats cool. I dont know you from Adam, but I i just did a quick search on threads that you started and I see that you post in the POTN sell forum as well. I dont think anyone would ever have to worry about buying from you. You cant say that about everybody.

And im sure the OP wants to give it back, and I also know that its alot easier to look and tell people what they should do, but when the shoe is on the other foot even well meaning people can make the wrong decision.

[WillOPhotos]

yeah if this did actually happen to me I would send it back.

[fotobird]

Without a second thought, I would send it back. Not even for a moment would I consider keeping it.

[M_ark]

Who would have thought doing the right thing would take eight pages to figure out huh. I thought you only paid for one, therefore one of them "does not" belong to you. It doesn't matter if the rightful owner doesn't speak English to your satisfaction or how big the company is or if it's insured or not. Contact EBay and advise them you have his camera and they'll have someone contact him for return information.

Technically this thread is not about the OP - yes, me. It's about what others would do if they were in the situation.

The whole thread is also about determining what effort is required to establish who the 'rightfull owner' is.
(if i unknowingly gave something to someone else, then i wouldn't there-after claim to be the rightful owner seeings i didn't know id lost it, and didn't know i had it in the first place)

[fotobird]

Ed rader...you rock! :)

I found $300 in cash once in a money envelope in a store. I turned it in to the manager. Now, yes...manager could have spent the money for all I know. But I walked away knowing I did the right thing.

[DJOZ]

It may sound cheesy but I live by the motto "do unto others as you would have done to you" I would contact the seller.

[grimey121uk]

when i purchased my 40d body the other day the store assistant in jessops handed me the kit with 17-85, but being an honest person i had to tell him,
or rather the MRS told him (damm woman)

[alan_potter]

Okay, in the vein of "what would you do"?

I think I would send an email - in the simplest, clearest English I could possibly write - to the vendor. I would say "I ordered one camera. You sent me two. Please tell me how to return the camera to you, at your expense. If you do not reply to me by the end of April I shall consider the camera to be mine.".

I would then put the second camera into a cupboard, and wait to see what happened. If the vendor hadn't provided a satisfactory resolution process by mid-May, I'd say that I had won a camera.

IMO, I am under a moral obligation to tell the truth and give the vendor a way to rectify his mistake. I should not end up out-of-pocket for the deal, though, so the vendor is responsible for getting you a reply-paid label.

regards,
/alan

[Box Brownie]

Boy this thread is long and ranging so I skipped a few pages as I felt the need to comment below.

It seems as though something stirred you all into action about returning it? Wow, it's great to see some honesty floating around...(or maybe it's just us canon folk?)

You'll all be very happy to know i DID contact the seller a week after the cameras arrived... - I just couldn't live with my conscience and my wife both telling me that I should tell them what happened.

So I did, I told them that I ordered only 1 and 2 units had arrived and asked what steps they wanted to take to sort it out.
Then they contact me and asked how many I ordered.
So I told them again....
They contact me back asking what the payment info was.
So i told them that as well...
And they contact me back thanking me and informing me that the item was shipped.

so what? is that all? what does that leave me with?

Do i keep fighting the Engrish speakers with English and hope eventually the message gets through?

Or

Should i call it a day, having set my conscience straight about contacting the seller and feeling like the seller resolved the situation in their way?

In the UK as someone mentioned we have a situation referd to as "unsolicited goods" i.e. something sent to you without being ordered. So based on the fact that you have tried to advise the supplier perhaps it now needs a further notification sent by two separate methods & possibly to two separate persons at the supplier (belt & braces) that the goods were sent in error and unless they arrange collection or return within 28 days you will arrange disposal. Having said that as mentioned by anther poster you could of course return it at your expense:cool:


at a petrol station recently filled up £8 into the bike, put the pump down, though 'oh ****' its not even full! so i picked it up again stuck another £3
went to pay for it... £3... hmmm £8 worth of free petrol, am i a bad criminal? things happen out of your control, doesnt always mean you are a bad person, if your intentions where not evil then its just circumstansial.

Now, surely this one is another matter - this 'method' of theft I believe is well documented and before the advent of ANPR cameras in garage forecourts was hard to spot/stop so depending on whether they use cameras for checking the rear of vehicles you will be simply recorded as a "drive away" - and as this is retail when they reconciole the till at the end of the shift I surmise any shortfalls come out of the cashiers pocket.

So maybe the next cashier you get served by will the 'one' who has had to pay such a penalty and may short change you simply because that is his way of "getting back", maybe not karma but sadly more like the state of society where we think that by such fortuitous things happening in our favour we are only denting the profits of large companies ~ the staff if penalised for not spotting "your good fortune" are the real victims of your action.

[PlayersZ28]

Sell everything else that you own, go into hiding and wait 6 months. If the cops haven't found you by then you can assume they don't care and open up the second body. Of course this only happens in the movies.

If you had no conciensce then you wouldn't have posted to start with. It's up to the seller to pay for shipping prior to sending the package back. If they don't want to do that then their loss, if they do then they get the camera back.

[brownbugger]

Returning it will be the right thing to do , there is a good chance the seller will see this as a good act and perhaps you will form a good relationship with him reflecting in discounted special prices on lenses for you in the future :) good karma

[Rellik]

Smashmy400D.com

Reading all these post makes me want to smash my head. Return it. Sell it. Return it. Sell it. KABOOM!

[Yevi]

well personally , i have different rationality, Karma, what goes around comes around, maybe the seller is a prick, and screwed somebody down his road, and missed out on the equipment. He was punished by universal powers, and you have been rewarded by those powers.

one time i bought a camera on ebay, seller charged me $40.00, so i paid it plus $10.00 for insurance on top of that, camera turned out to be broken, so i complained perhaps it was damaged during transit, the seller did not insure it. There was no return policy *all sales final* , but the seller made an exception and allowed me to send it back for a refund, i paid $20.00 to send it back, so when he refunded less S&H i missed out on $70.00. two weeks later i get another refund with the full amount.

Yev

[segasaturn]

So now wait a minute all you "what goes around comes around" people. What if this is the "comes around" part? What if, the OP did something really really good a few months ago, and this is his innocent "reward" (as he did say he tried more than one honest attempt to return it). What if the eBay seller did something bad to someone a few months back, and this oversight of his is karma's way of saying, "I'm making you lose this camera because you screwed someone back earlier"?

Is there a difference of "doing the right thing" and "good business"? Are any of you willing to ship to a forum buyer BEFORE you receive payment? Hoping that they'll do the right thing? Or will you collect first because basically that's good business. And if you do think that, then wouldn't not keeping track of items sold simply be "bad business" on the part of this eBay seller?

We all know what the "right and moral" answer is. But the OP already tried to do it. How many times does he have to try to send it back?

[StewartR]

I would send an email - in the simplest, clearest English I could possibly write - to the vendor. I would say "I ordered one camera. You sent me two. Please tell me how to return the camera to you, at your expense. If you do not reply to me by the end of April I shall consider the camera to be mine.".

I would then put the second camera into a cupboard, and wait to see what happened. If the vendor hadn't provided a satisfactory resolution process by mid-May, I'd say that I had won a camera.I was really trying to stay out of this thread. But I just had to say that Alan's put it better than anyone else. The time limit is a smart idea.

[peatoire]

It happened to me with my 70-200 IS (Yeah, I know). I was under no legal obligation to let them know but morally is another matter, after waiting 6 weeks for them to ask I succumbed to greed and kept the lens (then sold it to a friend) so far no Karma comeback. I was willing to send it back if they asked for it.
Can't speak for other countries laws but so long as they don't ask for it in the eyes of the law your clean.
Also happened to my 50mm 1.4.(another supplier) I know it sounds too good to believe but its true.

[greg20d]

I paid a store with a $10 bill they gave me change plus the $10 back
I said I gave you a $10, the checker said no you paid me with a $20
I replied no I gave you a $10
she argued like I was cheating her
I walked after a few minutes (sometimes its hard to be honest)

[WaltA]

From a philosophical perspective, I think SegaSaturns comments are quite interesting. What exactly do we mean by "comes around"? And how do you recognize it when it does?

To the OPs question, it was an unsolicited gift and should be shipped back. No question.

I had a similar situation working in an IT department for a fairly large company quite a few years back where I was asked buy a single copy of MS Office and install it on everyones desktop. I said I wouldn't because that would be stealing. I was told by a Sr Manager that "We can't afford to buy copies for everyone".

My response was "So if your out of work and need to feed your family its OK to get a gun and rob a grocery store, right".

Although it did not endear me to management (OK they hated me) I stuck to my guns.

Great thread.

[ed rader]

i think their trust in your good name costs much more. what is even more important what you think about yourself after all.
once i found a cell phone and there was owners home number in its contact list. i called and then they started screaming at me like i was a thief. next day i thrown that cell to river. it was very nice heavy nokia model and i felt very good throwing it so far :-)


right and wrong aside i'm not willing to comrpomise my good name for a few hundred bucks... i just don't need something that doesn't belong to me that bad.

what's the camera worth 600 bucks?

and i know good people make bad decisions -- i know i have.

that's why i said the longer the OP keeps the camera the more time he has to convince himself that it was a gift from God or whatever else he needs to believe to keep something that doesn't belong to him :D.

ed rader

[TeamSpeed]

I paid a store with a $10 bill they gave me change plus the $10 back
I said I gave you a $10, the checker said no you paid me with a $20
I replied no I gave you a $10
she argued like I was cheating her
I walked after a few minutes (sometimes its hard to be honest)

But the point is you tried to rectify the situation. Sometimes you won't be able to, and in those cases you may come out ahead.

[jcumming]

Since I'm always broke and fairly unethical and immoral (bite me), I'd hold onto it for a bit. After a certain amount of time if the seller hasn't contacted you asking for a return (lets say 14 days at minimum, several months at max) I'd consider it yours.

here here.....good one!

[tiziano]

right and wrong aside i'm not willing to comrpomise my good name for a few hundred bucks... i just don't need something that doesn't belong to me that bad.
ed rader

Now it becomes interesting...
You mean that if that thing was worth $50000 then you would be willing to compromise your good name? If that's the case, then this not a moral debate anymore... :D

[Balliolman]

Reading this thread is like having a game of scruples! :lol:

[felix21685]

what goes around comes around. simple enough

[WaltA]

what goes around comes around. simple enough

So as SegaSaturn suggested - maybe this is the OP's payback for something good done to someone else earlier. A free camera!!

[bildeb0rg]

The very fact that the OP is even asking, means that camera aint goin nowhere but but his gadget bag.

[gregnash]

I had a similar situation to greg20d
Paid for some KFC at the window, total was like $9
Gave the girl a $10
She gave me $55+change back..
Me: Uh... I think you got that wrong I only gave you a $10
Her: Oh..*hands me my food*... No you gave me $65 according to what I put in the till
Me: Trust me I wish I had $60+ right now as I wouldnt be here for dinner
Her: oh...well I show you gave me $65 *blank stare....closes window and walks away*
My fiance: ?????
Me: Well guess we got lunch/dinner on KFC

[andrew748]

keep it
but within 24 hours you must
kick a puppy
mug an old lady
burn down an orphanage

that should even things out in the karma stakes

[DDCSD]

Now it becomes interesting...
You mean that if that thing was worth $50000 then you would be willing to compromise your good name? If that's the case, then this not a moral debate anymore... :D

That is not what Ed meant. He means it doesn't matter how much it is worth. Wrong is wrong. Right is right. There is no in-between.

[stathunter]

It is NEVER wrong to do what is right.