Problems with the S200 - snowflakes and ISO

[Sea Dragon]

Hi everyone -

I have a Canon Powershot S200 that I picked up about 2 months ago. I've managed to get some good pictures, but many of mine and plagued with white circular snow flake shapes; I imagine that it's dust reflections, but I wanted to be sure.

Also, at higher ISO modes, the pictures turn out so grainy that it's staggering. I received an camera in a McDonalds kids meal one time, and the pictures from it look better than by S200 at ISO400.

For examples of this, as well as information on the settings I used, please see the picture page:
http://www.deepdarksea.com/canon.htm

Thanks very much for any help!

[paulmog]

are you sure it wasn't snowing when you took these pictures?


sorry...couldn't help it. actually i have no idea what could cause this. the first three are pretty bad though. the last few look ok. is it possibly a defective camera or perhaps there's dust or dirt trapped inside the lens?

[Sea Dragon]

It could be a dirty lens, but it seems to take inside shots fine (whether the flash is on or not.) So far, it's only been outside with the flash that I get the hideous alien snowflakes.

[biscuit]

Hi Sea Dragon,

I've got a s200 and have noticed the 'snowflakes' too!

They've appeared on indoor and outdoor shots, but appear to be worse at night or in dark conditions. I don't think it could be a dirty lens as I've only had my camera for 3 days and take good care of it.

Does anyone know what can be done to avoid these? They are quite annoying.

My friend has a pentax optio 330 and has taken 100s of pics and does not seem to have this problem.

Thanks,

biscuit

[biscuit]

Hi sea dragon,

i've spoken to canon by phone and via email about the 'snowflake' problem. Both replied that this was a fault with the camera and to get it to a service centre...

i suspect it is a fault because nobody else has replied to this thread with similar problems...

hope this helps,

biscuit

[Rzaa]

I've had the same problem with these 'starbursts' on my photos (I also have a Canon S200). I took it into Canon and they initially came back saying nothing was wrong, that these 'starbursts' were possibly caused by water droplets on the lens, and that the camera was in good working order. So I brought it home, took some more shots and again the same problem. I dropped it off again and am awaiting a reply. Frustrating when the manufacturer can't even figure out the problem...

[Sea Dragon]

Thanks for the information..

It's a puzzling situation, as some of my shots come out crystal clear, and then some come out with the snowfakes/starburts.

Biscuit and rzaa, can you go to my page
http://www.deepdarksea.com/canon.htm
(there are some big pictures, so it may take a minute or two to load if you're on a slow connection.)

and verify that these are the same sort of aberrations that you are seeing?

It's frustrating, as I can get some (at least I think) great shots, like the bottom three, but then horrendous ones, like the top 3.

Thanks

[bigdave]

sometimes when the image sensor gets too warm, it can cause noise in your images. also use a slower iso speed like 50-200 that should eliminate any 'snowflakes'.

[biscuit]

Hi guys,

Sea Dragon, I've checked out your link and these are the same weird snowflakes as in your pics, but I don't get it as bad as you do.

I took my s200 back to the place I bought it from, and because I've had it less than 7 days they gave me a brand new one.

As soon as I got home I took some test pictures with this brand new camera and.......

...still snowflakes. It's just annoying that Canon have no idea and no explanation about this.

My conclusion is that it has something to do with the flash refracting light off LARGER dust particles in the air. It never happens when I turn off the flash. Was there a lot of dust around when you took those shots Sea Dragon? I noticed one was in a stable.

Don't think it has to do so much with moisture. I did a little test...went to the shower, turned the hot water on full blast, steamed up the whole room, then grabbed my ixus and took a shot with the flash on. NO snowflakes appeared.

My friend has a Pentax Optio 330 and on closer inpspection of his photos, he too has the snowflakes, although they are a lot blurrier and faded, so a lot less noticable. I think the ixus may have a brighter flash than the optio 330 and has better optics, hence that's why the snowflakes are more prominent in its pics.

Just my opinion, my 2 cents worth...i hope this helps.

biscuit

[Rzaa]

Same snowflakes in mine Seadragon but not as much (the most I've gotten in a shot are 4-5, but then again I haven't snapped any shots at ISO 400).

I'll keep you guys posted as to what Canon tells me. I hope they have a better explanation this time around.

Oh, btw, it seems as though Canon is unaware of this seemingly common problem (what they've told me). We should all report this and hope they can come up with a viable solution...

[Sea Dragon]

Hi everyone,

I emailed canon a link to the page displaying the affected pictures, as well as mentioned that numerous other people are seeing the same aberrations.

I'll let you know if I hear anything.

[Rzaa]

They're also apparenly discontinuing the S200 in favour for a new 3.2MP S230.

Check it out here:

http://www.powershot.com/powershot2/s230/index.html

[biscuit]

Hi guys,

Not sure if my camera's broken. When i rotate it around it sounds like there is something rolling around loose inside.

Is this the same for your s200??

thanks,

biscuit

btw...i've noticed that the snowflakes are worse when i take shots with ISO400....on ISO50 the maximum snowflakes i've got is 5..

[Rzaa]

As far as I remember, never heard anything 'loose and rolling' in mine.

Seadragon and Biscuit, take your camera into a service centre and see what they say/do. Make sure you take a cd or cf card with examples of the 'snowflakes' problem.

[razkal]

Hi all,

I got those weird snowflakes and wondered what they were. I only get them in night shots as well. Does anyone have a workaround or heard anything more?

thanks!

[Rzaa]

Got my camera back today. They replaced the optical lens on it. So far so good. I'm gonna take a whole bunch of shots today and see if the snowflakes reappear. Will update.

And biscuit, I now do hear some thing moving inside the camera.

[Sea Dragon]

Hi everyone,

I just got off the phone with canon. The support guy was able to look at the pictures while on the phone with me (I gave him the web site link.) He showed the pictures to his supervisor and the supe said that it looked like either:
1) dirty lens
2) bugged firmware

He told me I should definitely send it in to the repair center.

Rzaa, any better luck with the repaired camera?

[biscuit]

Hey rzaa,

I think the thing rolling inside may be a ball bearing to help detect which way the camera is facing ;) ie horizontally or vertically...all is good.

Be interesting to hear how your shots went. Canon gave me brand new camera (as i had only had mine for 5 days) but i still get some snowflakes in some shots at night when i use the flash.

biscuit

[Sea Dragon]

I think I figured out for sure what causes the snowflakes, at least in my case.

Last night, I did an experiment: I had my girlfriend take a pinch or two of superfine flour, and throw it into the air. I stood back a bit and then took a picture. Snowflakes everywhere! I walked into another room with similar lighting conditions, and snapped a few; no snowflakes.

Even though I couldn't see the flour in the air, the camera could.

Those pictures I took were at a barn, and the horse had been running about right before I took the picture; probably kicked up a lot of dust.

[Rzaa]

Okay guys, been taking a lot of pictures and have only had one shot with one snowflake. Gonna keep shooting in different settings and if the snowflakes increase in frequency Canon will be hearing from me again. Will update :)

[biscuit]

Sea Dragon, I agree with you, it must be the way the flash reflects of dust...(as i said in my earlier post).

During a storm the other night one the trees in our garden blew down. The State Emergency Service had to come to chainsaw the whole thing up as it had fallen across the road. Anyway, this was at night and I of course was going snap happy with my camera. And I noticed several more snowflakes! This was probably due to the wood shavings etc in the air as the tree has just been hacked up!

The next day i took several pictures when the all the wood shavings had settled and NO snowflakes.

Rzaa maybe u should try taking some pics in dusty environment or try the same flour experiement as Sea Dragon as this sounds like it may be the cause of our problem. If it is, I don't think there's much canon can really do, except maybe replace our cams with the new 3mp canon cam ;)

[biscuit]

Okay guys...I emailed Canon Australia about the snowflake problem and finally got an explanation for it.

"This is a phenomenon that can occur in any brand or type of digital camera - it is caused by dust particles very close to the lens reflecting the flash and the result is the "snowflake" flare you are seeing. To avoid these, step back from the subject and use the zoom - this will put things very close to the lens right out of the focal range."

Hope this helps...it's put my mind at ease ;)

biscuit

[Rzaa]

Sounds good to me, though I wonder why Canon out here in Canada doesn't know this. I'm still getting a few snowflakes in my picutures but they've decreased in frequency since the repair.