Flash photography at events-mastering it

[Rodreguez]

Hi people. So I'm at the position where I could be about to earn some money at some local events for the arts council. I've done a fair bit of work at nightclubs using my 580EX with my 5D, but it's always been a bit of trial and error until I eventually find the right flash and exposure settings I need for the night. I did an event yesteday and had an awful lot of trouble getting the right amount of flash and exposure.

Yesterday I was shooting in manual mode on TTL. I was holding the flash off camera on a cable above and to the left of my head which was giving a nice direction, but I think that having it off shoe messed up the TTL reading, and I wasn't getting enough flash all the time. As far as exposure, I was just on manual and basically sticking to 5.6 and iso1600 on my 1D mk3, adjusting the shutter speed to get to "0" on the dial. Alot of the time this worked great, but other times it was useless. Often if it was dark in the room, then in order to get the right kind of exposure this would obviosly mean going above 1/60th or so, whcih without flash would be blurry. When i was getting the right amount of flash it was fine, but often the shots weren't sharp enough.

Anyway my question is, how can I ensure I get it right everytime? I need to find out a proper working method. Is there a book perhaps, oir a website that can help, or can anyone give me some of their own advice?

Any help much appreciated.

Rod

[Wilt]

Do you have FEC cranked in? Underexposure is a chronic complaint about Canon ETTL unless you dial in FEC +2/3EV or even +1EV !

the camera meter reading is USELESS for the flash portion of the exposure, and works only for the portion of the exposure which is contributed via ambient light. So under low lighting, you might merely ignore the in-camera meter. If you wanted to capture ambient light as well as use flash for the main subject, then you would use the in-camera meter to figure out f/stop and shutter speed to record the ambient light part.

[Rodreguez]

Do you have FEC cranked in? Underexposure is a chronic complaint about Canon ETTL unless you dial in FEC +2/3EV or even +1EV !

the camera meter reading is USELESS for the flash portion of the exposure, and works only for the portion of the exposure which is contributed via ambient light. So under low lighting, you might merely ignore the in-camera meter. If you wanted to capture ambient light as well as use flash for the main subject, then you would use the in-camera meter to figure out f/stop and shutter speed to record the ambient light part.

Thanks for the reply! Yeah I use the camera reading so that I can capture some of the ambient light too. can't stand shots where all light is killed by the flash.

+2/3 - 1 stop eh? Hmm maybe that's the problem I've been having. Just to clarify, I have a stophen flash diffuser, and I point the flash forward. This can give me nasty shadows on the wall behind which I seemed to notice particularlt last night. Pointing it up off the ceiling helped, but then I couldn't angle the flash from above and to the side, which I find gives the nicest light on the subject itself...

[Cody21]

Have you thought about trying a Lumiquest-like flash bouncer? "LumiQuest PROMAX POCKET BOUNCER" .. very inexpensive ($10).

I like this attachment for my nnn-EX. It allows for more of a bounce effect rather than a straight-on flash. It works pretty well for walk-around shots at night.

[cdifoto]

Here's a great thread with some AWESOME samples. :D

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=466874

[Wilt]

Just to clarify, I have a stophen flash diffuser, and I point the flash forward. This can give me nasty shadows on the wall behind which I seemed to notice particularlt last night. Pointing it up off the ceiling helped, but then I couldn't angle the flash from above and to the side, which I find gives the nicest light on the subject itself...

If you are not using the Stoffen to point the light up to a low, white ceiling for bounce (and a forward component to provide catchlight), GET RID OF THE STOFFEN and put it away for another time, as it will simply waste light and consume flash batteries faster.:evil: The Stoffen is useless when only pointed forward, as there is no increase to apparent size of the light source...same square inches with or without the Stoffen.

[Rodreguez]

If you are not using the Stoffen to point the light up to a low, white ceiling for bounce (and a forward component to provide catchlight), GET RID OF THE STOFFEN and put it away for another time, as it will simply waste light and consume flash batteries faster.:evil: The Stoffen is useless when only pointed forward, as there is no increase to apparent size of the light source...same square inches with or without the Stoffen.

Hmm interesting. But I thought that one of the points of the Stoffen diffuser was to soften the light as well as just spread it/ie increase the size of the light source? Doesn't it create a softer, more pleasing light as well?

[Pete]

If you are not using the Stoffen to point the light up to a low, white ceiling for bounce (and a forward component to provide catchlight), GET RID OF THE STOFFEN and put it away for another time, as it will simply waste light and consume flash batteries faster.:evil: The Stoffen is useless when only pointed forward, as there is no increase to apparent size of the light source...same square inches with or without the Stoffen.

Really?

(shot with a 5D/Sigma DG 500/Direct Stoffen)

http://www.the-aperture.com/EE/photos/normal/IMG_6712.jpg

http://www.the-aperture.com/EE/photos/normal/IMG_6709.jpg

[Wilt]

Guys, I didn't say that the stoffen has no effect at all, when pointed straight forward. I would get the same effect as a Stoffen straight forward if I simply cut a piece of laser printer paper the same size as the flash lens and tape it over...and I would save the cost of the Stoffen, in the process!

LARGE SOURCE = soft light. That is why using ceiling bounce is soft light with less objectionable hard edged shadows. Stoffen does nothing for increasing the apparent size of the light source if it is not using bounce off the ceiling. Since a Stoffen has light output from 5 of 6 sides, some light goes upward and sideways, and IF there is a white ceiling and white walls nearby, then the apparent light source is increased in size. If you are outside, a Stoffen straight forward offers little benefit and a lot more work for the flash and batteries.

[Pete]

I simply use the stoffen to help cut down the direct harsh glare from the bare flash. When balancing ambient and flash the way that I do, it helps to stop the white spots appearing on people's foreheads. I understand that it throws light everywhere, but that doesn't bother me at all. I've usually got spare batteries on me, and the events I shoot don't last that long (since I'm usually part of the drunken crowd myself and don't spend hours shooting).

[Rodreguez]

Thanks again Wilt. I like the softening effect the Stoffen has, and I've been using it pointing more or less straight forward, which is fine as long as there is'nt a wall behind nearby. When there is, I can point it at the ceiling and bounce, but in some cases there isn't a ceiling withing 50 ft, and in this case I've felt I've had no choice but to point it forward, and I've got horrible shadows on the walls behind. This happened last night, and I'm having to go through horrible amounts of photoshop with the healing tool and selecting and brightening and all sorts of rubbish to remove or soften the shadows.

What's the solution in this situation? ie; when there's no ceiling to bounce off?

Also I read about photographers bouncing off ceilings and all sorts of other objects to the left and to the right nearby. This sounds great, but how the hell do you know how much flash to use? If your ETTL is telling you to use X amount of flash, but you're bouncing off a mans suit to the left, doesn't that completely change the distance and flash drop off and everything? And not all ceilings are the same height either.... Confused.

I seem to have nearly mastered alot of the technological aspects of photography, but flash outside of nightclub situations still has me scratching my head...

[cdifoto]

Also I read about photographers bouncing off ceilings and all sorts of other objects to the left and to the right nearby. This sounds great, but how the hell do you know how much flash to use? If your ETTL is telling you to use X amount of flash, but you're bouncing off a mans suit to the left, doesn't that completely change the distance and flash drop off and everything? And not all ceilings are the same height either.... Confused.

E-TTL takes care of that by compensating accordingly.

[cosworth]

Do you have FEC cranked in? Underexposure is a chronic complaint about Canon ETTL unless you dial in FEC +2/3EV or even +1EV !


Also make sure you either have evaluative or average metering selected to suit the shot. This is the #1 reason for people not "getting E-TTL" in my books.

[Wilt]

Thanks again Wilt. I like the softening effect the Stoffen has, and I've been using it pointing more or less straight forward, which is fine as long as there is'nt a wall behind nearby. When there is, I can point it at the ceiling and bounce, but in some cases there isn't a ceiling withing 50 ft, and in this case I've felt I've had no choice but to point it forward, and I've got horrible shadows on the walls behind. This happened last night, and I'm having to go through horrible amounts of photoshop with the healing tool and selecting and brightening and all sorts of rubbish to remove or soften the shadows.

What's the solution in this situation? ie; when there's no ceiling to bounce off?

A product like the Lumiquest Pro, or a small softbox like Wescott Micro Apollo or Lumiquest or Photoflex, which really does increase the area of the direct light source.



Also I read about photographers bouncing off ceilings and all sorts of other objects to the left and to the right nearby. This sounds great, but how the hell do you know how much flash to use? If your ETTL is telling you to use X amount of flash, but you're bouncing off a mans suit to the left, doesn't that completely change the distance and flash drop off and everything? And not all ceilings are the same height either.... Confused.

I seem to have nearly mastered alot of the technological aspects of photography, but flash outside of nightclub situations still has me scratching my head...

No, you are not confused, you are merely recognizing that different shooting situations require different lighting solutions, and one size does not fit all. To even recognize the limitation of bouce, rather than blindly using it under all circumstances, is a major victory! because you can then be looking for a solution. My own, is a small softbox (Wescott)

[Rodreguez]

E-TTL takes care of that by compensating accordingly.

Really? You mean it knows what you're bouncing off and how uch to compensate by? That's awesome.

[Wilt]

Also make sure you either have evaluative or average metering selected to suit the shot. This is the #1 reason for people not "getting E-TTL" in my books.


For folks who Cosworth's comment is going over their head...

ETTL and evaluative metering can be fooled by highly reflective points in the scene reflecting back a larger proportion of light than if they were matte areas...mirrors, shiny bright metal, etc. Averaging works better to not overly bias the ETTL output for correcting for these atypical reflectances.

[Rodreguez]

A product like the Lumiquest Pro, or a small softbox like Wescott Micro Apollo or Lumiquest or Photoflex, which really does increase the area of the direct light source.





No, you are not confused, you are merely recognizing that different shooting situations require different lighting solutions, and one size does not fit all. To even recognize the limitation of bouce, rather than blindly using it under all circumstances, is a major victory! because you can then be looking for a solution. My own, is a small softbox (Wescott)

Thanks alot. This is great. I've been looking on Warehouse Express and I can't find a wescott model, but there are various Lumiquest options. Can't see a Lumiquest Pro though. I can see a "Lumiquest Big Bounce", and a "Lumiquest Minibounce" which says "for smaller heads" ...580EX?

Is it definitely the Lumiquest Pro I need? I want to be sure to get just the right thing. If it's definitely the Pro i need then I'll look elsewhere. To be honest I have money ( within reason) and I don't want to compromise when I could get the best...

Thanks again. :)

[Wilt]

Thanks alot. This is great. I've been looking on Warehouse Express and I can't find a wescott model, but there are various Lumiquest options. Can't see a Lumiquest Pro though. I can see a "Lumiquest Big Bounce", and a "Lumiquest Minibounce" which says "for smaller heads" ...580EX?

Is it definitely the Lumiquest Pro I need? I want to be sure to get just the right thing. If it's definitely the Pro i need then I'll look elsewhere. To be honest I have money ( within reason) and I don't want to compromise when I could get the best...

Thanks again. :)

I don't own one, so I defer to others who have direct ownership experience...but I do believe it is the Lumiquest Pro. (The Lumiquest 80/20 might be almost as good.)

[cdifoto]

Really? You mean it knows what you're bouncing off and how uch to compensate by? That's awesome.

It doesn't know WHAT you're bouncing off of, but the pre-flash of E-TTL determines flash-to-subject distance and the output required for proper exposure. It doesn't have to be direct flash.

[jpwone]

Hi Rod

I'm in Christchurch - just down the road from you. Balancing ambient and flash is a bit of an art. Do it well and it looks great, do it badly and .....

Anyhow, as I'm nearby, if you want some practical help with this give me a call.

John

[Rodreguez]

I don't own one, so I defer to others who have direct ownership experience...but I do believe it is the Lumiquest Pro. (The Lumiquest 80/20 might be almost as good.)

Great, thanks. My last question, is this something which is used with the flash upright, or facing forward? I like the shape created when lighting slighty from one side.

Also I have the flash on a cable all the time so that I can do this. Will this thing spread the light around so much that i lose the shape from having the directional light, or will it keep it's direction to a degree?

Thanks

[Rodreguez]

Hi Rod

I'm in Christchurch - just down the road from you. Balancing ambient and flash is a bit of an art. Do it well and it looks great, do it badly and .....

Anyhow, as I'm nearby, if you want some practical help with this give me a call.

John

Hey thanks John. I'll do that!

[jpwone]

Hi Rod

my numbers on my web site so any time to suit you. Well, anytime apart from 2 in the morning :-)

John

[Rodreguez]

It's great to put a question up on here and get such a positive and helpful response all round, so thanks to everyone.