Sports Photog's question.

[ItzBitzHair]

I have a question. I attended an event last night by the GACA. It was an all state game. There were a few guys there who did sports photography.

Now I have spend several months here listening to you guys and learning then I visit his site. I mean he literally shot and just uplodade all his images.

his site is onthescenephotography.com i think he has some good ones but then you will see some that were no faces ect like my pics did. I have also seen another guy who is very big time and his shots were the same. girls standing on the floor holding the ball ect.
--
as a high school sports photog should your focus be more getting a good quantity of pix for parents than pp for better quality?

[Paul S]

ItzBitzHair - I think it's about choices or maybe money? All Photog's are not created equal. It's the same in my business - Architectural Woodworking.

And some of us will get hooked when Posters Like Dennis post there photos and you follow all there details. The bar gets raised pretty high. And thats a good thing!!

[Anderson-Photography]

Event shooting can be difficult at times as you need to get images of every athlete but not every athlete gets heavily involved in the action or comes in contact with the ball, etc., or they may be reserves, so getting good shots of them becomes difficult and that's why you sometimes see a photo of an athlete standing on the sidelines ready to throw the ball in bounds.
I still think your best bet is to go for the highest quality shot you can get and try to do so for as many players as you can. Of course, there will be some in which the player is not in an action shot but mom and dad still want to see their son or daughter on the floor/field/ice and the chance of them buying a photo are greater if it's a quality image.

[fslshooter]

I'm continually amazed at which of my images sell and which don't and quite often ones I consider my best never sell. I think most photo editors use the first acceptable image they receive that's good enough for their purposes. A somewhat similar situation probably holds true for parents if they're on a limited budget -- they buy the first picture(s) of their kids that they like. Then when a better image become available, photo editors have already published their original selection and have no need for the better image and parents who are on limited budgets have already spent all they can afford or want to spend on photos of their kids. I think many photographers submit everything in hopes that their photos will be the first choice clients see and thus they'll make more sales. So the choice is yours -- do you want to be known as a guy with a camera or do you want to be know as a photographer who always produces quality work? Personally, I don't want my name associated with inferior photos so I opt to submit only what I consider to be good stuff.

[ruchad1]

I'm continually amazed at which of my images sell and which don't and quite often ones I consider my best never sell. I think most photo editors use the first acceptable image they receive that's good enough for their purposes. A somewhat similar situation probably holds true for parents if they're on a limited budget -- they buy the first picture(s) of their kids that they like. Then when a better image become available, photo editors have already published their original selection and have no need for the better image and parents who are on limited budgets have already spent all they can afford or want to spend on photos of their kids. I think many photographers submit everything in hopes that their photos will be the first choice clients see and thus they'll make more sales. So the choice is yours -- do you want to be known as a guy with a camera or do you want to be know as a photographer who always produces quality work? Personally, I don't want my name associated with inferior photos so I opt to submit only what I consider to be good stuff.

Thank you. there are a few Motorsports photogs in my area that upload 2000 photos from 1 night of racing and as a photographer it is hard to look at there dare i say "work"

chad

[ItzBitzHair]

Thnx for the responses. I agree that they photos need to look quality. I am not saying this guys work is not I posted the site so you can make that decision on your own. I belive that quality matters and this is why you guys are helpful in making me a better photog.

Its just amazing to me though when I hear one thing and see another its like hummm... and the other guys i spoke of is an excellant photographer... but his images were the same. Like someone posted when you are covering an event you are just trying to get all the players that you can get!?!

[dmwierz]

Bitz,

Chris and Jerry are correct. Some shooters post what they get, and hope "something sticks". Others cull and edit, then post.

IMO, real pro's only submit top quality work - their reputation is dependent on the quality of what they produce.

Now, when you're shooting an event as, say, the official photographer, and posting and selling on site, some times you only have time to chimp out the obviously OOF and missed shots, and the rest go directly to the computers and monitors. In this case, as Jerry said, I have seen shots sell which I would have never posted if I had the time to really review them, but parents often aren't as critical as we photographers are.

One time, a slightly OOF shot of the back of a youth football player was sold as a poster, and the Dad of the kid commented "This is the first photographer of my son I have ever seen." Plus you could clearly read their last name emblazoned across the back of the uniform.

So, ya never know.

[Anderson-Photography]

Bitz,

Chris and Jerry are correct. Some shooters post what they get, and hope "something sticks". Others cull and edit, then post.

IMO, real pro's only submit top quality work - their reputation is dependent on the quality of what they produce.

Now, when you're shooting an event as, say, the official photographer, and posting and selling on site, some times you only have time to chimp out the obviously OOF and missed shots, and the rest go directly to the computers and monitors. In this case, as Jerry said, I have seen shots sell which I would have never posted if I had the time to really review them, but parents often aren't as critical as we photographers are.

One time, a slightly OOF shot of the back of a youth football player was sold as a poster, and the Dad of the kid commented "This is the first photographer of my son I have ever seen." Plus you could clearly read their last name emblazoned across the back of the uniform.

So, ya never know.

Good point, Dennis. I don't shoot events and sell onsite but instead send them to the company that hired me via FTP or CD so in some cases I can see photos that may be considered marginal showing up for sale at the event.

[Aaagogo]

IMHO

as much as I understand only posting good work, now I'm in the process of selling my images as well, granted, I've learned from this awesome forums on the do's and dont's and I don't post OOF or images of those without faces in them, or images of the players standing there doing free throws,

but when it comes down to business, it's a little different.

a editorial staffed sports photographer is different from a sports photographer that sells images to parents. While some parents could care less about not having an image of their child while he/she is playing, some parents will go into a $hit fit if they do not see any image of their child, even if that child is a 2nd or 3rd stringer who gets the last 2 minutes in the game and touched the ball once during that 2 minutes.

while the real pros would not submit photos that do not have great action, content, expression and etc... then again, real pros don't shoot HS sports and parents (the paying customer) in the HS scene is a little different than photo editors or other photographers that study their work.

I say, keep learning and improving to produce quality work, do the basics, ie, no OOF, face or no face is a toss up, sometimes, no face of the player, but the opponent's back or number can be seen and the other parent might like it...

keep your portfolio with only your best images.

[BaumannPhotography]

IMHO

as much as I understand only posting good work, now I'm in the process of selling my images as well, granted, I've learned from this awesome forums on the do's and dont's and I don't post OOF or images of those without faces in them, or images of the players standing there doing free throws,

but when it comes down to business, it's a little different.

a editorial staffed sports photographer is different from a sports photographer that sells images to parents. While some parents could care less about not having an image of their child while he/she is playing, some parents will go into a $hit fit if they do not see any image of their child, even if that child is a 2nd or 3rd stringer who gets the last 2 minutes in the game and touched the ball once during that 2 minutes.

while the real pros would not submit photos that do not have great action, content, expression and etc... then again, real pros don't shoot HS sports and parents (the paying customer) in the HS scene is a little different than photo editors or other photographers that study their work.

I say, keep learning and improving to produce quality work, do the basics, ie, no OOF, face or no face is a toss up, sometimes, no face of the player, but the opponent's back or number can be seen and the other parent might like it...

keep your portfolio with only your best images.

I couldn't agree more. I sometimes get parents ask for posters of their kid and they tell me that they don't play all the time. So then I have to get creative and get shots of them talking to coaches, "high five" teammates, freethrows, running down the court, etc. And that's just BBall. Then again I shoot for parents and not papers.

[dmwierz]

then again, real pros don't shoot HS sports and parents (the paying customer) in the HS scene is a little different than photo editors or other photographers that study their work.

What? ??? This statement couldn't be further from the truth. Many, many, many pro shooters cover HS sports. In fact, this is where I personally make the largest % of my money. My second largest % comes from youth sports.

I'll offer that it's actually more difficult to cover HS sports in many respects than it is to cover pro events.

Anyone who thinks there's huge money to be made covering exclusively pro sports is misinformed, or knows different pro's than I know (like only guys who shoot for SI, ESPN, AP, Getty, etc.).

[opus13]

I guess i have never had exposure to youth sports photography before (i have no children). I am actually surprised to learn that there is a decent living to be made from it (?). I mean... I've never heard anyone actually mention buying a photo from one of their kids sporting events, much less seen anything in a scrapbook/mantle/wallet/etc that looks like anything more than a P+S image.

is this a field that is more of a regional affectation? or is it pretty consistent nationwide?

[Aaagogo]

no no, sorry, the way i phrased it was mistaken.

I'm referring to the dungeons that we get to shot at, with over anxious parents.

I understand that there are top level HS sports, I'm not referring to those.

What? ??? This statement couldn't be further from the truth. Many, many, many pro shooters cover HS sports. In fact, this is where I personally make the largest % of my money. My second largest % comes from youth sports.

I'll offer that it's actually more difficult to cover HS sports in many respects than it is to cover pro events.

Anyone who thinks there's huge money to be made covering exclusively pro sports is misinformed, or knows different pro's than I know (like only guys who shoot for SI, ESPN, AP, Getty, etc.).

[dmwierz]

no no, sorry, the way i phrased it was mistaken.

I'm referring to the dungeons that we get to shot at, with over anxious parents.

I understand that there are top level HS sports, I'm not referring to those.

The dungeons to which you refer ARE the places where High School sports are contested, and these are the very places I am speaking of. The difference between a "top level" High School and other schools really isn't that much. I go where the action is and where parents buy the most photos, and these facilities can range from good to very, very poor from a photography standpoint.

I fear you don't understand this market very well, or what the life of a professional sports photographer is all about.

[dmwierz]

I guess i have never had exposure to youth sports photography before (i have no children). I am actually surprised to learn that there is a decent living to be made from it (?). I mean... I've never heard anyone actually mention buying a photo from one of their kids sporting events, much less seen anything in a scrapbook/mantle/wallet/etc that looks like anything more than a P+S image.

is this a field that is more of a regional affectation? or is it pretty consistent nationwide?

The market is pretty widespread. You'd be surprised how much $$ parents are willing to spend on their kids, if you choose wisely.

Do a Google search on your geographic area and "Youth sports photography". Be prepared to be amazed at first the number of companies out there, and secondly, at the overall poor quality of what is being sold.

For the most part, the younger the kids are, the more money their parents are willing to spend, but this isn't always true. Also, the more affluent areas are more receptive, but again, this is not always the case. People love their kids, and they are hungry for quality photos of their kids, and this is independent of social or even economic situations.

[MJPhotos24]

The market is pretty widespread. You'd be surprised how much $$ parents are willing to spend on their kids, if you choose wisely.

Do a Google search on your geographic area and "Youth sports photography". Be prepared to be amazed at first the number of companies out there, and secondly, at the overall poor quality of what is being sold.

For the most part, the younger the kids are, the more money their parents are willing to spend, but this isn't always true. Also, the more affluent areas are more receptive, but again, this is not always the case. People love their kids, and they are hungry for quality photos of their kids, and this is independent of social or even economic situations.

I've been doin pro sports much longer than youth, it took a group of parents I know to get me to try and land local youth gigs. Dennis is right, the money can be very good depending on your market. There's at least 10 companies in this small surrounding area that have poor quality IMO, matter of fact I'll be havin my pic taken by one of them soon for a team I coach. Two years ago pro baseball was first and youth was secondary when my scheduling came up - now youth summer leagues is first because the money is good.

Of all the pro shooters I know that make a living out of photography ALL of them shoot youth & high school as well as pro baseball/hockey/football/etc. Making money as a pro sport freelancer sucks! You cannot make a great living off it (as already stated this is aside from guys who are working on salary for someone and freelances on the side). MANY pro shooters shoot from youth all the way up through the highest level. You can find me at a 5-6 year old game one day and a high level All-Star Game the next, and same goes for many others - Dennis is 100% right.

[Aaagogo]

i see, i had always thought that top level places will have better lighting, in consideration for the media.

I'm still new to the business part of photography.

Dennis, mind elaborating what you mean by, if you choose wisely, how do one go about choosing?

The dungeons to which you refer ARE the places where High School sports are contested, and these are the very places I am speaking of. The difference between a "top level" High School and other schools really isn't that much. I go where the action is and where parents buy the most photos, and these facilities can range from good to very, very poor from a photography standpoint.

I fear you don't understand this market very well, or what the life of a professional sports photographer is all about.

[dmwierz]

Dennis, mind elaborating what you mean by, if you choose wisely, how do one go about choosing?

You need to know what sells in your area, and which age groups are buying. In some places, soccer sells great but softball doesn't. In others, football Rocks at the Casbah, but baseball doesn't move at all.

Also, know your market relative to age groups. The youngest athletes almost always sell well. High School sells OK, but most of the HS work I do is through other, larger organizations who market themselves as prep sports companies. Senior portraits are another potentially lucrative market.

[ItzBitzHair]

There is not many around here from my research. Other than papers I never see photo's on site. I found 2 in Savannah, Ga and they told me they actually have to come my way to cover event's I also agree on age.. the younger the better.... for cost.. I am just working on my quality.. I will be posting a few photo's soon cause I did another shoot yesdidit.

Thnx for you guys input...

I am just amazed how he just threw his photo's up there.. and he says all the papers in his area and even my area buy from him...