Red Face

[tccoble]

My grandson has very fair skin so of course just before his prom he got a little too much sun. Do any of you have or know of a good technique to use in photoshop to tone down the red.
Thanks
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p310/tccoble/_MG_2420-3.jpg

[René Damkot]

You could try a channel mixer adjustment layer (masked off to just work on the face).
Try setting R=90, G=6, B=4 for the red channel and work from there.)

Alternatively / additionally: Click1 (http://www.smugmug.com/help/red-skin-tones), click2 (http://www.smugmug.com/help/skin-tone)

[tccoble]

Thank you so much for your quick reply. Here is quick fix.http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p310/tccoble/_MG_2419-web.jpg

[Zansho]

The problem with that, is you also affected the girl's skin tone too. I'd have masked out the effect to reflect only your grandson, and left the girl alone.

[René Damkot]

Nah. The problem is, the second image (post #3), is in AdobeRGB. Your browser isn't color managed...

Looks fine in my browser (Safari ;))

[Baadil]

Here is my take....

1. Selective Color w/ Mask
2. Levels
3. Selective blurring ( a bit)
4. Saturation

[sniperkittie]

A different approach using Corel Photo-Paint X3.

Using your first image.

Used a masking brush to mask his face. Changing the brush transparency and edge feather to blend the mask on the edges of the hair line.

Sampled the color just under his right eye.

Desaturated the masked area.

New object. (layer for PS) Overlay blend

Using a paint brush that covered his whole face, Applied the color I selected earlier.

Reduced the transparency of the the new overlay object.

Adjusted the color balance on the mid-tones only to get the skin color I wanted

Then adjusted the brightness, contrast and intensity to fine tune the color.

Removed the mask and flattened the image.

[300Dplus]

tccoble, my take was rather than "un-nuking" the young fellow completly, I tried to bring a overall tone balance at the end of some localize corrections:

Adjusted local Hue/Saturation of red and yellow channels.
With the Selective Color tool, adjusted the black and yellow percentages.
Applied a warming filter 85 wit a low density.
Small corrections with curves.
An finally, a couple of cosmetic corrections and a vignette.

Compression to post eliminated some details and brought the reds a tad up, but you get the idea.
Hope it helps...

[sniperkittie]

Another option in Corel is Selective color adjustments.

Mask his face and in CYMK, increased the Yellow and decreased the Magenta.

I am sure there is a similar adjustment in Photo-Shop.

[LeuceDeuce]

...

[sniperkittie]

I try and keep a cross ref between Corel Photo-Paint and Adobe PhotoShop. What is the feature name you used in PS?

[LeuceDeuce]

Edit: removed due to innappropriate color space.

[tccoble]

Thanks to all , here is a redo of the project. http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p310/tccoble/_MG_2420-2h-1.jpg

[Damo77]

SniperKittie and LeuceDuece, please PLEASE don't go around recommending the use of CMYK in image editing.

I don't care what you do in the privacy of your own home, but to advise unnecessary CMYK conversions to new members like the OP is dangerous and very counterproductive. There are many good ways to achieve OP's request without ever leaving RGB mode.

To everyone reading this, I urge you to avoid CMYK like the plague. CMYK conversion is DEATH to your image, particularly shadows. You're losing colour quality that you can never recover, even after you convert back to RGB.

The average user's CMYK setup is exactly as it came from Adobe - a SWOP profile. If you were to examine the profile, you'll see the Total Ink Limit is set to 300%. Sounds high? Uh uh. That's 300% out of a possible 400%. So when you convert to CMYK, only three quarters of your colour data is kept. No WAY should you be willing to sacrifice one quarter of your image quality.

[LeuceDeuce]

SniperKittie and LeuceDuece, please PLEASE don't go around recommending the use of CMYK in image editing.

I don't care what you do in the privacy of your own home, but to advise unnecessary CMYK conversions to new members like the OP is dangerous and very counterproductive. There are many good ways to achieve OP's request without ever leaving RGB mode.

To everyone reading this, I urge you to avoid CMYK like the plague. CMYK conversion is DEATH to your image, particularly shadows. You're losing colour quality that you can never recover, even after you convert back to RGB.

The average user's CMYK setup is exactly as it came from Adobe - a SWOP profile. If you were to examine the profile, you'll see the Total Ink Limit is set to 300%. Sounds high? Uh uh. That's 300% out of a possible 400%. So when you convert to CMYK, only three quarters of your colour data is kept. No WAY should you be willing to sacrifice one quarter of your image quality.


Really? My image quality is so horrible that the image is now dead?

Not going to get into a debate on which colorspace to use for what, but the original poster wanted the red out. This is how I would do it, that is all.

[DanteCaspian]

SniperKittie and LeuceDuece, please PLEASE don't go around recommending the use of CMYK in image editing.

I don't care what you do in the privacy of your own home, but to advise unnecessary CMYK conversions to new members like the OP is dangerous...

To everyone reading this, I urge you to avoid CMYK like the plague. CMYK conversion is DEATH to your image...


Wow. could have said that with a bit less aggression:cry:!

[DanteCaspian]

SniperKittie and LeuceDuece, please PLEASE don't go around recommending the use of CMYK in image editing.

I don't care what you do in the privacy of your own home, but to advise unnecessary CMYK conversions to new members like the OP is dangerous...

To everyone reading this, I urge you to avoid CMYK like the plague. CMYK conversion is DEATH to your image...


Wow. could have said that with a bit less aggression:cry:!
What would new members think?

[Damo77]

I'm quite prepared to get into that debate. CMYK is not an editing space, it's an output space.

If the OP, or anybody else reading this thread, gets into the habit of using CMYK mode to tame troublesome colours, it won't be long before they run into serious trouble. I'm just trying to help them avoid those problems.

[Damo77]

What would new members think?

I hope new members will think twice before converting to CMYK.

[René Damkot]

CMYK is not an editing space, it's an output space.

Agree ;)

[Damo77]

Phew! The cavalry has arrived!

[DanteCaspian]

I hope new members will think twice before converting to CMYK.

:lol::lol::lol:

[LeuceDeuce]

Posts removed. I won't make such a blasphemous suggestion again.

[LeuceDeuce]

Oh, in case you weren't aware Rene...

You could try a channel mixer adjustment layer (masked off to just work on the face).

Try setting R=90, G=6, B=4 for the red channel and work from there.)

Alternatively / additionally: Click1, click2



your first response, click 2 is exactly what I did.

love the hypocracy.

[sniperkittie]

SniperKittie and LeuceDuece, please PLEASE don't go around recommending the use of CMYK in image editing.

I don't care what you do in the privacy of your own home, but to advise unnecessary CMYK conversions to new members like the OP is dangerous and very counterproductive. There are many good ways to achieve OP's request without ever leaving RGB mode.

To everyone reading this, I urge you to avoid CMYK like the plague. CMYK conversion is DEATH to your image, particularly shadows. You're losing colour quality that you can never recover, even after you convert back to RGB.

The average user's CMYK setup is exactly as it came from Adobe - a SWOP profile. If you were to examine the profile, you'll see the Total Ink Limit is set to 300%. Sounds high? Uh uh. That's 300% out of a possible 400%. So when you convert to CMYK, only three quarters of your colour data is kept. No WAY should you be willing to sacrifice one quarter of your image quality.

Since I do not use Adobe, am I exempt. And I know I am not. I view the accepted version of CYMY being 300% and RGB being 400% a little differently. May not be correct but its me. 300 and 400% of what. If I am not mistaken it is visible light color components. Has someone has decided that RGB can replicate 400%. How much am I missing? I am open for enlightenment.

Don't ask me the underlying code of Corel Photo-Paint X3 but when you use the Selective Color adjustment filter, it uses CYMK to make the adjustment to the reds, yellows, greens, cyans, blues, and magentas. I made no conversion. At least, not on my own.

My first post was of a convoluted color correction. No coversion there either.

By the way. What color inks do you use to use to print you images?

And I am curious how you would correct the image. example would be appreciated.

I am new and still learning.

[Damo77]

Don't ask me the underlying code of Corel Photo-Paint X3 but when you use the Selective Color adjustment filter, it uses CYMK to make the adjustment to the reds, yellows, greens, cyans, blues, and magentas. I made no conversion. At least, not on my own.

Ah ha! Yes, Photoshop has a Selective Color function too. And yes, it's performed in RGB - no conversion performed. Glad we cleared that up.


By the way. What color inks do you use to use to print you images?

I send files to the lab, so no inks are used.

[sniperkittie]

I was off editing my response. Hoping to finish before you read it. Newby mistake no doubt. Forgive me. Won't happen again.

Can you explain to me what makes CYMK an output space and not a subtractive color space as I learned. As opposed to the additive RGB color space. Yes I know that RGB has a "wider" range. And I agree that CYMK is not as "wide".

I am curious as to how your lab prints you images with out ink of some kind. Either CYMK or Pantone' type color range. A wider range of inks than CYMK. Still not as wide as the RGB color space as I understand it.

[Damo77]

As I understand it, in machines like the Fuji Frontier (for example), it's photographic paper exposed by laser. No ink involved.

I certainly should have elaborated on the 300/400% thing. Here goes ...

Theoretically, solid overprints of cyan, magenta and yellow should produce perfect black. That is, if your printer printed 100%C, 100%M and 100%Y (=300%), it should give you a lovely rich black. If printing inks were tonally perfect, black ink would be unnecessary. But sadly this is not the case.

So we use black ink in the printing process to partially replace portions of the other colours. This is for two reasons:
1) 100% C,M & Y do not produce perfect black, rather a yucky brown. No good. We need a health dose of genuine black ink to make black.
2) Black ink is cheaper than coloured ink.

But we can't overprint 100% of each of the four inks - that would be too much ink, it would never dry, and it would smear all over the paper. So every CMYK profile has a Total Ink Limit - ie the limit of ink which can safely be put down on paper. Every paper is different - on really good quality stock you might be able to put down up to 360% ink. At the other end of the scale, in newspapers (my industry) we can barely manage 230%.

So I quoted 300% as an average.

Now, let's look at an RGB black converted to CMYK using the US Web Coated SWOP profile. We end up with 75% Cyan, 68% Magenta, 67% Yellow and 90% Black. So if you had a brilliant pink flower in your photo, you could lose up to 32% of that colour in the conversion. And you won't get it back when you convert back to RGB - it's gone for good.

What I've written above is a very broad generalization, and I've no doubt forgotten to mention many important factors. There's heaps of good resources out there. Try Googling the terms "total ink limit", "UCR vs GCR" or even simply "understanding CMYK".

[sniperkittie]

Thank you for you explination on the 300% using CYMK. Can you generalize what you mean by 400% using RGB? And why you use the term Output color space when refering to CYMK?

[Damo77]

No, I never mentioned 400% RGB.

The point was, in the CMYK conversion, only 300% of a possible 400% of the data is used - ie three quarters of the original RGB colour.

Well, CMYK is an output space. It's made for printing.

[Gary Lindquist]

And, if you fail to get the red out you can always fall back to the trusty Guy Fawkes mask ;)

260633

[sniperkittie]

So if I am using a monitor ot display my work am I not using a RGB represention of CYMK. Don't I have to tell my program to use the CYMK color space and save the file that way for it to be CYMK. If I use an RGB profile will I not still see a representation of RGB no matter what I use to edit. Lab, CYM, CYMK, RGB or others. In Corel, I have to tell the application what profile each device is to use. And even though I edit in CYMK and never change my profile or have it turned off completly, won't I still be saving the file in RGB.

[sniperkittie]

And, if you fail to get the red out you can always fall back to the trusty Guy Fawkes mark ;)

260633

Cute, but that does not solve the problem. LOL :mrgreen:

I stand corrected. It does solve the problem. :D

[Damo77]

So if I am using a monitor ot display my work am I not using a RGB represention of CYMK. Don't I have to tell my program to use the CYMK color space and save the file that way for it to be CYMK. If I use an RGB profile will I not still see a representation of RGB no matter what I use to edit. Lab, CYM, CYMK, RGB or others. In Corel, I have to tell the application what profile each device is to use. And even though I edit in CYMK and never change my profile or have it turned off completly, won't I still be saving the file in RGB.

What you did in your reply to the OP (seems like years ago now) was technically fine. You made changes to the Magenta and Yellow in RGB mode.

Of course, I didn't know that at the time, which is why I mentioned you in my original post.

[sniperkittie]

I admit, that had I saved the image as a CYMK color space, it would look horrible. But no matter what I do to the image as far as editing it does not alter the color space until I save it, no matter what I use as a color space representation edit. As long as my over all montor profile is set to RBG or off and the image is save in the RGB Color space. At least in Corel.


I also want to aplogize to tccoble for hijacking his thread. It was just something I had to do.

Jack

[René Damkot]

Oh, in case you weren't aware Rene...

your first response, click 2 is exactly what I did.

love the hypocracy.

Either I understood you wrong, or you need to re-read the link...
There is a difference between working in RGB and using CMYK 'readouts' and actually converting to CMYK.

The first is A-okay. The second is not ;)


I admit, that had I saved the image as a CYMK color space, it would look horrible. But no matter what I do to the image as far as editing it does not alter the color space until I save it, no matter what I use as a color space representation edit. As long as my over all montor profile is set to RBG or off and the image is save in the RGB Color space. At least in Corel.

Don't know Corel, but if you go Image > Mode > CMYK in PS, you do loose quite a bit of color...

Here's an example (used a colorful image to show it quite clearly):

First is sRGB, second is after going Image > Mode > CMYK, then back to sRGB. Nothing else was done...

[LeuceDeuce]

Either I understood you wrong, or you need to re-read the link...
There is a difference between working in RGB and using CMYK 'readouts' and actually converting to CMYK.

The first is A-okay. The second is not ;)

From your link:

Should I ask how fancy people do it?
Yes, because it's easy and you'll delight people with your skin tone mastery.
Go to Image > Mode > CMYK Color.
Now go to Image > Adjustments > Curves. The small window you see below will come up. Choose the yellow channel.
Choose a representative spot of skin, such as a forehead. Move the eyedropper to that patch of skin, hold down Ctrl and Shift (Shift-Command on the Mac), and then click your mouse on the skin. The point you see on the line, below, will appear.
(You can configure the eyedropper to sample a 5x5 or 3x3 pixel area to make it representative.)

Even though this shot was taken with a professional camera and good studio lights, with yellow at 18% and magenta at 22%, Kim is bound to think she looks too pale and too pink.
We will type 30% into the place for output. Then we'll switch to the magenta channel and type 24% in the space for output. Finally, we type 8% for cyan output (33% of the magenta value).
How did we choose those values? They're typical for fair-skinned caucasians and not too far from the original shot.
Finally, Image > Mode > RGB Color. Save. That's all there is to it.

Exactly the method I used, the method taught by professional retouchers, and convieniently... one of the methods in the very first response to this thread.

[Bobster]

CMYK = approx 24K worth of colour, RGB = 16.777777 million colours...

u convert to CMYK you will loose your colour gamut! this doesn't matter in normal ink printing (offset), but will matter if you are going to a lab to have prints made or you have a 6/8 colour inkjet..

[René Damkot]

From your link:

Exactly the method I used, the method taught by professional retouchers, and convieniently... one of the methods in the very first response to this thread.


Whoops :o

My bad. Sorry.

I was thinking they just used the readouts on the (CMYK) info palette. Silly they don't.
I'll mention that next time I post the link.

I still say: Do not convert to CMYK. Instead, use an adjustment layer like "selective color" if you want to change CMYK values.

[DanteCaspian]

And, if you fail to get the red out you can always fall back to the trusty Guy Fawkes mask ;)

Such a visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is it vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished, as the once vital voice of the verisimilitude now venerates what they once vilified buy a sun burn!