Getting EOS Digital for Christmas....Help with lens!!

[jrcnet]

Hello all, I am planning on purchasing a Canon EOS Digital Rebel for my wife for Christmas. She loves to take pictures of our children. We have been using the Canon Powershot G2 for just over a year now and she wants to start doing her own portraits instead of lugging our children to the local portrait studio every few months. This is going to be a surprise present for her and I was wondering what lens other than the standard one that comes with the camera should I also purchase so she can start taking pictures immediately. Also, any other suggestions for what I may need would be appreciated. Thanks everyone for this site. I just love how there is a message board for everything imaginable these days. :D

[Jon]

50 f/1.8, AKA the "nifty fifty". Good speed, sharp and light - the better to chase down and catch those squirming little kids. Oh, and did I mention that it's cheap?

Studio portraits usually have more than one light and/or reflector. She may need to get a couple of flashes that can be master and slave if she wants to achieve that kind off result, but she may be willing to wait a bit before trying that - a sunny day and white sheet near a window will go some way toward that effect.

[RbnDave]

If she's going to be taking a lot of pics indoors you might want to buy an external flash. I have a 420 EX and it works well. For more money you can get the 550 EX.

Is the Christmass pressent more for you or your wife? :lol:

If I was starting from scrtach, with no lenses, I would buy this set: Canon 17-40mm L, Canon 50mm f1.8, Sigma 70-200. Or here is another option Tokina 17mm, Tamron 28-75, Sigma 70-200. Those are the cheapests ways I know to get pro looking pictures. When you buy lenses try to think in terms of a set of lenses and how each lens fits in the set. If you aren't carefull, you'll end up with a lot of over lap and you'll have paid for lenses that sit in the camera bag unused.

[jrcnet]

Dave,

Thx for the tips. Being a novice, though, I must inquire further. Could you tell me what you would use each lens for, i.e., the Canon 17-40mm L used for? the Canon 50mm f1.8 used for? and, the Sigma 70-200 used for? Also, what is the difference between the Canon 50mm F1.4 and the F1.8, they are running a good rebate program right now and the F1.4 doesn't qualify, but the F1.8 does. Thanks again!!!

p.s.
Though the present is for my wife, I anticipate getting a few kicks out of it also!

[Jon]

The 17-40 will give you a lens for wide-angle (about 65 deg) to normal (about 40 deg) coverage. It costs a lot more than the kit 18-55 mm lens, but is also much better quality. This is good for scenics or photos of a room for instance. The 50 would be a good portrait lens, and will do very well in low light. The 50 f/1.8 doesn't have a rebate in part because new it goes for about $70, rather than the $300 of the 50 f/1.4. It's amazingly good for the price (or any price). Search here for "nifty fifty" for some reviews. A 70-200 telephoto will be useful in taking pictures of moderately-distant subjects, such as Little Leaguers or Pee Wee football.

[su719]

jrcnet,

Get the 50 1.8 as it is a great cheap portrait lens and will help your wife in what she wants to do. As for the 17-40L this is a wide angle lens and is useful for large group portraits or landscapes. The 70-200 is a telephoto lens which is used for portratis from far away, or sports action where you are not too close to the action. For you I would get the 50 and go for a 550 flash. Since you want to do portraits a flash will be a necessary thing in order to provide the correct indoor lighting.

[Alexia]

Dave,

Thx for the tips. Being a novice, though, I must inquire further. Could you tell me what you would use each lens for, i.e., the Canon 17-40mm L used for? the Canon 50mm f1.8 used for? and, the Sigma 70-200 used for? Also, what is the difference between the Canon 50mm F1.4 and the F1.8, they are running a good rebate program right now and the F1.4 doesn't qualify, but the F1.8 does. Thanks again!!!

p.s.
Though the present is for my wife, I anticipate getting a few kicks out of it also!

Actually, the f/1.4 is the rebate one.

Camera terms: http://www.steves-digicams.com/digi_dictionary.html
"f-stop - A numerical designation that indicates the size of the aperture. It is inversely proportional as a smaller number like F2.8 is a large opening and a large number like F16 is a relatively small opening."
"Aperture - The lens opening formed by the iris diaphragm inside the lens."

[jrcnet]

Would you suggest I go ahead and get the EF 50 1.4 since I can get it at almost 50% with rebate, or is it not a significant upgrade from the 1.8 for an amateur like me?

[Jon]

50% off after rebate's still over twice the price of the 50 1.8 without rebate. It'll give you another 2/3 stop, USM, for a slightly bigger and heavier lens. It's pretty much your call She'd be quite happy with either. Of course, if you were to get a second Canon lens on the list too, that might make a real difference.

We're all so good here at telling people how to spend their money :{)#

[tofuboy]

50 f/1.4
USM focusing
Slightly larger aperture f/1.4 vs. f/1.8
Better construction (metal mount)

50 f/1.8
DC Motor focusing (is that right? Well, it's not USM)
Slightly smaller aperture
Plastic Mount
More prone to breaking (but not a problem if you don't drop your lenses)

As for which one to get? It's really a question of if those things the f/1.4 version has are worthwhile to you. Optics-wise, they are both about equal. I decided to get the 50 f/1.4 at a cost of $300. So asking me which to get, I would say the f/1.4... But that is coming from my point of view, where as someone who values cost more than some added quality would go the other way.

As for which lenses to get, the 50mm's mentioned would be great for portraits. The 18-55 lens that comes with the camera is decent, but there are definately better quality lenses in that focal range. It also depends on what you want to spend. You may be happy with the 18-55 (average quality optics), 50 (good optics), and say a 75-300 (average quality optics)

[FlipsidE]

I'm not trying to talk you out of this decision (trying to talk you into it with help!), but I just want to make a quick note here. Just want to make sure that you wife is willing to read/take classes. I jumped into SLR photography w/out knowing anything more than, subject there, point camera, press shutter button.

Over the past six to eight weeks, I have learned SO MUCH about photography. It's honestly the most complex hobby I've ever picked up, but I wouldn't trade it. I love a good hobby that pushes my mind. Honestly, SLR's are some of the most versitile cameras one the market. But, with that versitility comes more complexity...complexity that Point and Shoot models don't have (but then P&S cameras are much less versitile).

If you are plannin on grabbin the DReb and a lens for her, I'd also pick up this book:

National Geographic Photography Field Guide: Secrets to Making Great Pictures (http://www.booksamillion.com/ncom/books?id=3007331580607&pid=079225676X)

So far, this book has been EXCELLENT for me. Very easy to read and very informative. It covers the basics of photography as well as touching on most (if not all) types of photography at least for a few pages.

Good luck and enjoy!

FlipsidE

[RbnDave]

I thought about your question a little more and I take back my original post. I still like the list of lenses I recomended, however since you and your wife are new to photography maybe you should just stick with the kit lens and a Canon 50mm f1.8 or f1.4. After a few months of snooping around these boards you'll get a much better idea of what lenses you'll need. Until then, the kit lens and the 50mm will be enough. Hate to see you spend your money on a lens you don't want. After time you'll find out if you want something more wide angle or more telephoto.

[FlipsidE]

I thought about your question a little more and I take back my original post. I still like the list of lenses I recomended, however since you and your wife are new to photography maybe you should just stick with the kit lens and a Canon 50mm f1.8 or f1.4. After a few months of snooping around these boards you'll get a much better idea of what lenses you'll need. Until then, the kit lens and the 50mm will be enough. Hate to see you spend your money on a lens you don't want. After time you'll find out if you want something more wide angle or more telephoto.

- I couldn't agree more. I've been an AVID reader and poster on this message board, and I've been reading up on a few books on photography. And, after 6 to 7 weeks in the SLR world, I finally purchased my first lens (well lenses) yesterday. They should be here tomorrow. I picked up the Canon 28-105 f/3.5-4.5 (for portrait use) and the 50mm f/1.8 (also known as the Thrifty Fifty because of it's $75 price tag) for general use. Until tomorrow around lunch (hopefully), the only lens I've owned for my DReb will have been the kit lens.

Right now, I'd say go ahead and pick up the DReb. Then, spend quite a bit of time (whatever you can spare) reading up on these message boards and asking advice. You'll eventually find something you are sure to like lens-wise.

If you do want to get another lens besides the kit lens at time of body purchase, I would agree with the recommendation to pick up the 50mm f/1.8. I've seen the quality of shots that come from this lens, and they are quite nice! And, with a max aperture of 1.8 and a $75 price tag, ya just can't go wrong.

FlipsidE

[commando]

I would second (or 3rd) the idea of getting the kit, then playing around and reading/asking questions on this board until you've had the camera a little while. Once you know what you want to take photos of and how, that'll tell you what lens to get. The 50mm 1.8 is widely recommended, and at the price you could hardly go wrong.

[Hellashot]

Is your wife really into photography or wants to get into it seriously? It sounds as if a digital rebel might be a bit much for her uses. a 4 or 5 MP camera should be more than enough for children portraits. She might want something more versitle than a bulky drebel. I have a Drebel but will sometime soon get a compact digital camera because of being compact.

Don't go overboard for price and size.

[Headcase650]

This is the best place to learn what the canon Digital Rebel can do, take an hour or so to read the lessons and look at the pics from different lenses from super wide, medum and telephoto. even if you already have a rebel its always a good refresher.

http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/lessons/index.html

[FlipsidE]

Is your wife really into photography or wants to get into it seriously? It sounds as if a digital rebel might be a bit much for her uses. a 4 or 5 MP camera should be more than enough for children portraits. She might want something more versitle than a bulky drebel. I have a Drebel but will sometime soon get a compact digital camera because of being compact.

Don't go overboard for price and size.

- I had this same discussion with a friend of mine. He had decided that he was going to buy a high end digital camera for his wife for her birthday so that she could take pictures of their infant daughter. It was down to the G6 and the DReb. I told him about the DReb and the Thrifty Fifty. The I started going into how fast it is and how he'd probably need to learn how to control DoF, how he'd have to clean the sensor and lenses from time to time, etc., etc. Needless to say, he decided against a DReb and opted for the G6 instead. He decided he'd rather have a camere that could think for itself so he didn't have to. But, he also wanted indirect flash capability. So, the G6 was the best option.

If she wants to take professional looking portraits but doesn't want to have to learn photography, the G series cameras are a great option. For portraits, direct flash is almost always a bad idea. Some (if not all) of the G series digital cams have a hot shoe on them so you can use an external flash and bounce it.

FlipsidE

[rkoshy]

Hello all, I am planning on purchasing a Canon EOS Digital Rebel for my wife for Christmas. She loves to take pictures of our children. We have been using the Canon Powershot G2 for just over a year now and she wants to start doing her own portraits instead of lugging our children to the local portrait studio every few months. This is going to be a surprise present for her and I was wondering what lens other than the standard one that comes with the camera should I also purchase so she can start taking pictures immediately. Also, any other suggestions for what I may need would be appreciated. Thanks everyone for this site. I just love how there is a message board for everything imaginable these days. :D

I am no expert, but here's my two cents' worth:

#1 - How old are your children? I have two -- 2 & 5 -- and the kit lens is great for indoor photos of them running around. The zoom helps because kids are so much more spontaneous and you can get the most amazing/cute/funny pictures with candid shot.

#2 - I'd also recommend the 50 f/1.8 -- the .4 wasn't worth the price differential for most of us -- since it's relatively inexpensive as far as lenses go. It gives great pictures (portraits or otherwise). Simply put the lower "f" number = higher aperture -- the opening of the "iris" of the lens. The cool aspect is that the DOF (depth-of-field -- the range of stuff that's in-focus) gets lower with a higher aperture (lower f number) and give a slightly blurry look to the background (Assuming they're not right in front of it).

#3 - For portraits a decent tripod is a good idea. This will come in handy later on also.. so don't waste money on a flimsy one...

#4 - I'd invest in a flash -- the one that is built into the camera is horrible if the person you're shooting is anything more than 4-5 feet away -- I like the Canon 550EX for its range / power. However, note that there are other choices. Having said that, if you're MAINLY interested in portraits, maybe something like the ALIEN BEES lights may be more appropriate (and I think they're in the same price range as the 550EX)...

Another note is that the DRebel's exposure calculations will be off with the flash, so adjust the flash up by a 1/3 to 1 stops... (look up exposure compensation in the flash's manual)

#5 - For professional grade portraits you need a lens that's closer to the 100mm range, which for some unknown reason is preferred by the pros. Also.. the larger the "mm", the more of the blurring effect you will get... but remember, you will still need a large aperture lens (i.e. low "f" number) to get the REALLY blurry backgrounds...

I hope this helps...

[vfilby]

#3 - For portraits a decent tripod is a good idea. This will come in handy later on also.. so don't waste money on a flimsy one...

Amen to that! And you can buy velbon tripods for almost $100 that still suck. Research tripods carefully before making a purchase. $$$ != good.

#4 - I'd invest in a flash -- the one that is built into the camera is horrible if the person you're shooting is anything more than 4-5 feet away -- I like the Canon 550EX for its range / power. However, note that there are other choices. Having said that, if you're MAINLY interested in portraits, maybe something like the ALIEN BEES lights may be more appropriate (and I think they're in the same price range as the 550EX)...

Another note is that the DRebel's exposure calculations will be off with the flash, so adjust the flash up by a 1/3 to 1 stops... (look up exposure compensation in the flash's manual)

Agreed, three alien bees and you would be rocking the portrait scene. However 1 alien bee with umbrella and stand costs about as much as a 550ex. I have a 550 (Sigma 500dg) and I am saving up for a some Bee's.

#5 - For professional grade portraits you need a lens that's closer to the 100mm range, which for some unknown reason is preferred by the pros. Also.. the larger the "mm", the more of the blurring effect you will get... but remember, you will still need a large aperture lens (i.e. low "f" number) to get the REALLY blurry backgrounds.

I think the tele gives a reasonable DOF, keeping the subject sharp while blurring the background. I am wondering if tele is used for the compression effect. Any know the answer to this?

[Jon]

I think the tele gives a reasonable DOF, keeping the subject sharp while blurring the background. I am wondering if tele is used for the compression effect. Any know the answer to this?

Yes, the longer lenses are preferred because they give a more "natural" perspective to the face.

[FlipsidE]

:) I wonder if the original poster had any idea what he was getting himself into ;)

FlipsidE

[lomond]

:) I wonder if the original poster had any idea what he was getting himself into ;)

FlipsidE
My Thoughts exactly.

If you're sure your wife would be a "keen amateur" then by all means go the DSLR route. I would also recommend the 50mm 1.8 as an exellent lens for the money.
However be prepared to spend more, alot more. If, like me, your wife gets hooked on this DSLR game then expect to shell out perhaps 3 times as much again on lenses etc. ( Thankfully I have an understanding wife. :roll: :roll: )

A friend of mine bought a Canon Powershot Pro 1 and I can tell you it's an impressive camera. For portraiture, with the right light, I wonder how many of us could tell the difference between the Pro 1 and a DSLR.

Whatever you choose I hope you and your wife get as much pleasure from photography ( and this forum ) as I have.
Cameron

[jrcnet]

Wow! Thanks to everyone for the input. Yes, both my wife and I are amateurs. But, we both want to go to the next level in photography. My wife has taken courses on photography and has really expressed an interest in discovering more about it. That's why we got a Canon Powershot G2 last christmas. We have taken literally thousands of pictures, playing with different angles, lighting, situations, etc. Taking pictures of your children as they grow is such a wonderful hobby. I think the Digital Rebel is the next logical step for us. And, yes, I admit, there is much more to be learned with regards to lenses and settings. But, I hope to learn more through experience and with the advice of more experienced persons such are yourselves. Thanks again for the advice!

[Jon]

If you're both already that much into it, the extra money for a 20D might be worthwhile . . . Sounds like you're not afraid to push it to the limits.

[rkoshy]

I think the tele gives a reasonable DOF, keeping the subject sharp while blurring the background. I am wondering if tele is used for the compression effect. Any know the answer to this?

Yes, the longer lenses are preferred because they give a more "natural" perspective to the face.

Now that you mention it, I remember the reason (as read from a book) was that:

When you're really close up to a person, their nose literally sticks out of the face, which looks strange in a 2-D photo. Somehow at 100m-105mm or so, the face gets flattened, which gives a more appealing look to the photo.

[jrcnet]

You weren't kidding about spending other peoples money were you? :lol:

[Andy_T]

jrcnet ...

... first of all:

Welcome to the forum!
Nobody has said that so far, what bad manners :wink:

I also had that little voice in the back of my head when I read this thread ... take a careful look at the 20D and decide if the difference in price is within your limits ...

I will get my 20D early next year, and I also was thinking of the DRebel first.
But when I compared the two (actually: the 10D at that time) in the photo shop, I just liked the feel of the 10D a lot more and decided that I would want to spend the extra money.

As far as lenses are concerned, the kit lens is the most economical way to get wide angle coverage on either one.
Sure, the Tamron 28-75 XR DI/2.8 will give you better image quality and a 2.8 aperture, but you will lose the wide angle.
So my suggestion would also be to go with the kit lens and the 1.8/50 and add other lenses as you proceed.

Best regards,
Andy

[Jon]

There have been a fair number of people here who got the DR, then 6 months later found themselves lusting after the 10D because they were running into the DR's limits. OTOH there are some who are quite content with it. I have no way of knowing which you are. I'll admit the rebate on the Rebel's nice, but if you're one of those who'll be trading it in after 6 months . . .

Of course, I have dogs, not kids. Can't get health insurance for them, but they don't need X Box and designer clothes :{)#

[Andy_T]

So you're the only person who can answer that question ...

I know that I am the kind of person who has forgotten about $500 saved about a month after the purchase.
However, I keep thinking 'What if I had spent the additional money and gotten the other model' every time I pick it up :wink:

Best regards,
Andy

[jrcnet]

The EOS Digital plus the lens, memory card, backdrops and hopefully some lighting is enough to put me in the hole this Christmas. So, I will have to forgo the 10D for now.........

[Andy_T]

No problem. :lol:

After all, it's the present for the wive!
You can get your own one later.....

Best regards,
Andy

[FlipsidE]

Lights and backdrops will probably end up running you more than the 20D.

FlipsidE

[rkoshy]

Lights and backdrops will probably end up running you more than the 20D.

FlipsidE

This is right off the alien-bees web site:

The Beginner Bee

1 AlienBees B800 Flash Unit
1 CB1 Single Light Carrying Bag
1 LS3050 10-foot General Purpose Light Stand
1 U48SW 48-inch Silver/White Reversible Bounce Umbrella
$359.00
The Background Bee

1 AlienBees B400 Flash Unit
1 CB 1 Single Light Carrying Bag
1 LS1100 Backlight Stand
1 HG20 20º Honeycomb Grid
$290

My 550EX was about $350 or so... and it's not as nice for portraits as the B800...