Developin B/W film, a few questions

[jiggling_john]

I've just got together all the bits to have a go at developing some film on my own. Being a complete novice I have a few questions!

I'm using a paterson super system 4 tank, ilford film, ilford id-11 developer, ilford rapid fixer and the other usual bits and pieces...

Questions..

When the developer has done its job in the tank, what do you do with it?! Do I pour it back into the fresh developer, discard it or keep it seperate?!

Is it essential to use a wetting agent? The data sheet seems to think it wont dry evenly if you don't use one...

I'm sure I'll need to know more but that'll do for now!

Thanks for any help :)

[Gary Lindquist]

Not sure about that developer, but I am pretty sure you discard the developer.
I always use a wetting agent. Keeps streaks and spots from forming on the film surface.

[jiggling_john]

Hmm! are spots and streaks a result of bad rinsing then?

[Gary Lindquist]

I don't think so. I think it has more to do with impurities in the water you use.

[PhotosGuy]

are spots and streaks a result of bad rinsing then? It's caused by the hard water, like you see on a water glass. Best to final rinse in distilled water with a wetting agent, & you can reuse that for a while. I am pretty sure you discard the developer.
I always use a wetting agent. Keeps streaks and spots from forming on the film surface. My answer, too. I always used fresh developer, even when it said that you could replenish it. I don't know how much id-11 you mix at a time, but if it's a lot & you don't use it up within a week or so, put marbles in the bottle to keep air out.
We used HC-110 which is a concentrated liquid, & mixed what we needed as we used it.

Fixer can be reused a long time. Be sure you follow directions when you dump it out.

[jaybird]

You can re-use the developer. If you mix-up a batch and only process a couple of rolls, the stuff is still good. Developer will expire with time, exposure to air, and being too full of silver nitrate. If you don't have a second container to keep the used developer, you could put it back in with the rest. If you keep using the used developer, you need to add just a little more time to the development portion of the cycle.

Man, I miss developing rolls. Print development I could do without, but my buddy and I would buy a bunch of beer and just spend an afternoon developing film.

[jiggling_john]

sound advice guys, thanks :)

The hardest part is mixing all this stuff up, the tank has a capacity of 290ml, the fixer needs to be mixed 1:4, so that means about, er 58ml fixer... haha, I'm going to get dodgy results the first time I'm sure!

Looks like I need to get some wetting agent. I was looking forward to having a bash this afternoon too!

[Gary Lindquist]

John, back in the old days (when I was much younger and had lots of energy for this type of thing) I loved processing my own B&W films and images. I used a developer that was one use. To me, it was easier as I could mix just one batch of developer for the film container I was using and then throw it away. No worries that my developer was out of date or overused. This developer was an Agfa product (I think) called Rodinal. Made great negatives for me.

I particularly like working in the darkroom making prints, though. I used Dr. Beeres adjustable contrast developers that were a pain to mix up, but worked very well for me. Also used Oriental Seagull fiber paper with stunning results.

Fun stuff! Would work on prints for 20-hours straight. And, like jaybird above, had to have a six pack of Guinness Stout for these moments.

[jaybird]

I've worked with Rodinal. Also with some Kodak developer. I did all my developing while I lived in Argentina. We could get Agfa products and Kodak products without problem, but not Ilford. I preferred Ilford, but I worked with what we could get.

I used to use old bottled water bottles spray-painted black to store the chemicals.

Once you get into it, it won't be long before you are buying bulk film reels and rolling your own cartridges.

[Liam:]

Once the chemicals have been mixed your developer should last at least a week if in an airtight bottle. Chucking it away could become quite expensive.

[Perry Ge]

I reuse my developer too, though I keep 'reused' chemicals in a different container than fresh ones, and in the fridge. You definitely can, and should reuse it imho.

As for wetting agent, it helps a lot. I am sometimes lazy and can't be bothered, but it's a good idea for the reasons folk have mentioned above.

[LBaldwin]

D-11, Rodinal, Dianol, Acufine, Diafine, the list used to be very long. Now there are very few cehm makers left. I too loved ilford goodies especially the filters I usually used multigrade papers for most work.

I printed Italian style no hard measurements, time etc. Never used those silly tongs either. I loved it but it did not love me. I get some strong skin reactions to most of those chems now. I will share a good secret though, if you can get it, indicator stop bath and indicator fix are real handy to help you not waste chemicals. Please make sure that you have great filtered positive air pressure in your dark room and good fume evac too. Too many years I worked without those two items, and it was not a good idea.

Have fun.

[jiggling_john]

Well, I couldnt resist..

Developed a roll of fp4 and did 6 mins in hp-11 and 5 mins with the fixer, washing it out in between and giving it a damn good rinse in the end...

I was well nervous when I opened the tank but when I did....

I really cannot believe it. It's magic! The negatives are perfect! If only my film scanner had arrived now... :-p

[kevin_c]

Well, I couldnt resist..

Developed a roll of fp4 and did 6 mins in hp-11 and 5 mins with the fixer, washing it out in between and giving it a damn good rinse in the end...

I was well nervous when I opened the tank but when I did....

I really cannot believe it. It's magic! The negatives are perfect! If only my film scanner had arrived now... :-p

I'll always remember my 'first time' as well - My Father showed me how to do it many, many years ago - It's still a moment of pleasure even now! :-)

[jiggling_john]

haha yeah it's ace isn't it? I'm royally addicted now. I'd recommend a blast at film to anyone who's having a lull in their interest in photography because this has completely reignited my desire to go and take good pictures :)

[randerson07]

Im in the same boat. After last summer I had a lull, I mean I was still taking pictures when I went to events and what not, but I wasnt going out of my way to find good shots nor was I visiting photography websites and reading.

Then the end of March came and I inherited a couple old Petri SLR's from my grandfather who passed a couple years ago. I shot one roll through a Petri FT EE and got maybe 3 decent shots(one of them is my avatar) of nothing and Im hooked. I just traded a Sigma lens for an Elan 7e and im looking to purchase everything i need to develop my own as well as a decent scanner for the negs.

Photography is exciting again.

[Naturalist]

Congratulations on the development jj.

When I developed and processed my own film I used Kodak Photo-flush to wash the negatives in prior to removing them from the reel in the rinse tank.

Its like a super mild soap concentrate - just add a coupe of drops and agitate the tank a couple of minutes, then squegee the negatives as you pull them from the reel.

When hanging the negatives to dry I used a heavy binder clip on the bottom to maintain weight so the negative strip does not curl during the drying process. Keeps them nice and straight!

Have fun and let us see some results soon.

[Liam:]

I was in the same boat as well, I ended up taking up to 200 photos and only getting 1 that I actually liked. But when I used film I started getting 24 that I really liked because all of the time I took trying to get it to look right. I just developed some medium format from my grandads afga billy the negatives are huge at least 10cm long. Now I can't wait to get a scanner :)

[sjones]

Well, I couldnt resist..

Developed a roll of fp4 and did 6 mins in hp-11 and 5 mins with the fixer, washing it out in between and giving it a damn good rinse in the end...

I was well nervous when I opened the tank but when I did....

I really cannot believe it. It's magic! The negatives are perfect! If only my film scanner had arrived now... :-p

I just switched to film last month, and I intend on developing my negatives starting next month. Consequently, it is encouraging to hear that your inaugural attempt was successful. I figure I'll use two or three 'test rolls' before attempting what I still consider to be a horrifying venture…

[jiggling_john]

this is excellent, glad to hear so many are in the same boat! I'm still amazed how well I did without all the right kit...

Randerson: get yourself on ebay and get a paterson tank... I think all in all I spent about £13 on the tank, £4 on a film end retriever, £10 on a dark bag, and £10 on chemicals (developer and fixer). I popped down the local supermarket, got a couple of jugs, thermometer (really never underestimate the importance of one of these!) and some gloves (those chemicals are evil on your skin).

Give it a go :-D

As for the "test rolls" yeah... I'm still gonna be scared next time even, but it's just part of the fun I guess.

There is only one major problem with shooting film that I can see... Both my AE-1 program and EOS5 have excellent view finders, when I go back to my 350d its like looking down a tunnel! Damn the need for full frame!!

Thanks for sharing all these thoughts people :)

[tzalman]

Next step, experimenting with different films and developers, even formats. When I worked my way up to landscapes shot MF (Mamiya 330) on Panatomic X (32 ISO) and developed in Rodinal, that was a little corner of heaven.

[kevin_c]

I've gone back to using a lot more film over the past few months, I just find it makes you think before firing off the shutter, I also like the tones from film, digital can be so clinical sometimes - As Liam said above your keeper rate will probably go up as well :-)

[kevin_c]

Next step, experimenting with different films and developers, even formats. When I worked my way up to landscapes shot MF (Mamiya 330) on Panatomic X (32 ISO) and developed in Rodinal, that was a little corner of heaven.

You can even develop film in Coffee! (http://photo-utopia.blogspot.com/2007/09/developing-in-coffee.html) (I haven't tried this though...)

[DocFrankenstein]

There's very little you can do to screw up the negatives. The whole system is very tolerable to sloppy technique from exposure to printing.

One of my friends shoots random black and white film he finds on sales or free. It's always expired and kept in bad conditions. He develops ALL FILM the same way, 7-8 minutes in D76 regardless of temperature. He still gets pretty good results.

I sold off my digital setup last month. Now I only have film cameras and won't go digital again.

Look into bulk loading, I shoot with this:
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=1000000828

It's a nice film and cheap too. Dries flat as well.

Also use dilute vinegar as a stopbath and a drop of detergent as a wetting agent.

Coming back to original question, I discard my developer after one-time use. Some say they see lack of shadow detail in the negative when used more than once, but I just want consistently and chemicals are cheap.

[René Damkot]

Missed this thread...

Massive Dev. Chart. (http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html)
Might come in handy ;)

I use(d) Tmax 1+9, D76 1+1, rodinal 1+50 and HC110 dill. B mainly, depending on the film used.

Use once, then dispose.
Wetting agent: yep.

[Wilt]

NEVER EVER PUT USED DEVELOPER IN WITH FRESH UNUSED DEVELOPER!!! It accelerates the deterioration of the unused developer. You can take a container of used (and not exhausted) developer and store it for a limited amount of time, and replenish it with new developer, but if you aren't using it within maybe a day, just throw it out.

All developer has a limit of number of square inches of film that can be processed for a given amount of solution. If you process 20 sq in. in developer which has capacity to do 40 sq. in, you can store it for re-use; but if you processed 20 sq. in. in enough developer that only has 20 sq.in. capacity, there is no point in even trying to save it.

I started processing B&W when I was about 11, learned to process color slides from an industrial photographer when I was about 14, and started color printing when I was about 17.

[LBaldwin]

Hi All,

I just got this from Andy Davidhazy @ RIT I thought you might be interested
Although this is a commercial message it is probably of interest to
those of you that have used Agfa chemicals in the past. So, PF HQ
decided this was of general interest in spite of its commercial content
and is forwarding FYI. The note came from: s.junghans@mahn.net

Warenlager / a view into the Rollei-Film/Agfa warehouse,
Hamburg-Stapelfeld, Germany

Today, we would like to inform you, that the production of AGFA b&w
photo chemistry will continue. Good news from the change of ownership of
the factory in Vaihingen (Germany).

Successful efforts were made to convince the new owner of the chemical
factory in Vaihingen, where Agfa chemicals have been produced for many
decades, to continue production of the well known and proven Agfa
chemicals. The formulas will remain unchanged. The continuation of
production is the result of a close and trustful cooperation between
the new ownership and a specialized company for photo chemistry packing.

With this decision the new ownership make the commitment to supply the
worldwide BW community with the established AGFA BW photo chemistry
represented by these products:

Rodinal: Legendary film developer.
Studional: Film machine developer. (1:1-Rodinal Special)
Neutol NE: Neutral tone paper developer.
Neutol WA: Warme tone paper developer.
Sistan: Silver stabilizer.
Agefix: Fixer.
Agefix Plus: Super concentrate Fixer.
Agepon: Wetting agent
Viradon: Toner.

Supply will be through established distribution partners. For example
FREESTYLE in the States.

In the USA Freestyle has original Agfa Rodinal bottles in stock.
In Canada the importer is Blazes AGFA and have b&w photo chemistry in stock.

In all other countries the dealers, who sell Rollei-Film and Maco
products. Please feel free to contact us for further information. We are
glad to help you.

"Rodinal is Agfa’s trademark name for their concentrated film developer
formula, patented by Dr. Momme Andresen in 1891. It is the oldest
continuously-produced developer formula in the world."