Wildlife/Birdies? A Gimbal Head for Everyman/woman!

[condyk]

You ever thought of investing in a gimbal head? No fashion fans it's not the latest trendy London hairstyle but rather a super flexible tripod head for use with all your big boy birdy and animal and airplane style lenses.

Sure you can go Wimberley (http://www.tripodhead.com/) or Kirk (http://www.kirkphoto.com/cobra.html) and feel proud that you own the best and happy that you can now sneer at your safari shootin' pals at the next waterhole, that's you're choice. Or you can save your hard earned cash (or the wife's hard earned cash in the case of Petkal and Marky!) to spend on chocolate and high-heel shoes, as well as acquire a cool gimbal all of your own (that's your own gimbal CDi, not your own Gimp!)

I found a close clone of the Kirk King Cobra (http://www.kirkphoto.com/cobra.html) so thought I'd give it a go. I was half expecting junk, but driven on by previous budget buy specials like the famous Gap Man Bag (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=189741), aka the street shooter special ...

http://www.buzzdns.com/openbaggap.jpg

... the Dynatran 'Tightwad Tripod' carbon fibre special (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=164099) ...

http://www.buzzdns.com/tri1.jpg

... and the famous Lens Sock (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=147626) (R)

http://www.buzzdns.com/lenssock.jpg

... I slapped my credit card on table and ordered the thing from here (http://stores.ebay.com/Digital-Video-Product), plus a couple of clone 'Arca-Swiss' plates, the P20 and P30, to support some big boy lenses. I also got a big QR system for my camera body to put on a Manfrotto 488 and for exclusive landscape use, but will review that at some later date ;-) You can get the Kirk clone like me or a full Wimberley clone which is a bit weightier so I left that.

All arrived pretty quick from our pals in sunny India. Very well wrapped, so well wrapped that even Hamuman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanuman) the nimble-fingered Hindu Monkey Diety would have struggled to get the thing opened.

Anyway, finally all was revealed and I saw that it was good. The order was complete, lots of different sized screws and tools and instructions included, the casting was a tad rough in places but totally acceptable, well built, everything worked, solid QR system, easy/good adjustments for different sized lenses, strong, decent weight but not heavy (0.950 Kg), and the plates where good.

So you screw in the plate to the lens foot nice and secure, slip the plate into the QR, tighten it all up and it is solid as a rock. All the movements are smooth. A significant upgrade over the likes of Manfrotto 488 RC2 if you prefer this kinda approach. Just very easy and fast to use. You balance the lens/camera combo and can almost use fingertip control to move it all around. Ideal for the money-wise buyer. Cost around £90 delivered, including the 2 lens plates. Sweet ...

http://www.buzzdns.com/gimbal1.jpg
http://www.buzzdns.com/gimbal2.jpg
http://www.buzzdns.com/gimbal3.jpg
http://www.buzzdns.com/gimbal4.jpg

[weka2000]

What would be the bigest kit you would use on this 1Dmk2 + 300F2.8?

[condyk]

I'm intending using the 300mm 2.8 IS L with a 40D and TCon's. It is strong enough for sure. The advert says up to 600mm.

[RTRIDER]

Thanks for the heads up on that, just about to order a 300 f/2.8, and that looks just the ticket for a good mounting soution.

[gymell]

The cat seems to approve of it. ;)

[condyk]

Thanks for the heads up on that, just about to order a 300 f/2.8, and that looks just the ticket for a good mounting soution.

Be interested in your views if you get one.

The cat seems to approve of it. ;)

She's just a little poser ;-)

[chauncey]

If you would humor me and take some comparison images using ballhead and using gimbal head.
Am curious about vibration transmission.

[condyk]

Nah ... I think you have measurbators disease and refuse to be part of it. Besides, I do not live in an earthquake zone and my neighbours are not currently having energetic sex :-)

But I can tell ya you will see nothing different anyway. Decent tripods and heads are like decent lenses - not that different. Some just like to spend more money.

[blonde]

looks like a very good value alternative to the Kirk head. i will still argue that it will not be as good as the real Wimberley due to the side mount but the side mount works great for me with the sidekick anyway so it is not a big deal.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Yowza, and what a price!
These did not exist a year ago! I definitely would have tried that full Wimberly knock off at less than half the price.
Thanks for the write up.

[CyberDyneSystems]

looks like a very good value alternative to the Kirk head. i will still argue that it will not be as good as the real Wimberley due to the side mount but the side mount works great for me with the sidekick anyway so it is not a big deal.

Check link, approx $200.00 for a full Wimberly (V1.0) knock off! :shock:
(including a very long release clamp)

[condyk]

Yowza, and what a price!

Wuz you that give me the idea in Africa so I hunted around for similar and found it ;)

[blonde]

Check link, approx $200.00 for a full Wimberly (V1.0) knock off! :shock:
(including a very long release clamp)

that's not bad at all!!!! (i don't see myself replacing the Wimberley with that but it's nice to see that there are cheaper alternatives).

[condyk]

Blondie that is exactly it ... this is for folks who don't wanna spend big bucks but want the same functionality. I doubt side by side shooting the same gear and the same subject we'd see a difference. There's also a clone tripod mount on the 70-200 IS there ;-) Much cheaper and does the job fine.

[b.d.bop]

One problem with these gimbal devices is that they don't take well to "smaller" birding lenses like the 300/4L with 1.4x nor the 400/5.6L if they're attached to a 1D or a 5D+grip body, balance-wise - you actually need to slide the foot plates of these lenses beyond the safety pin point to achieve balance on the gimbal and that's scary.

[condyk]

Mine is fine with the 70-200 IS 4.0/40D combo ... a simple solution is to take the grip off your 5D isn't it? Are you sure you have the right plate/s for your lens? Some plates are longer and so that allows more scope to balance. Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying or you're refering to a different design.

[b.d.bop]

Mine is fine with the 70-200 IS 4.0/40D combo ... a simple solution is to take the grip off your 5D isn't it? Are you sure you have the right plate/s for your lens? Some plates are longer and so that allows more scope to balance. Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying or you're refering to a different design.

The Wimberley www.tripodhead.com (http://www.tripodhead.com) catalog booklet makes note that in the case of smaller collared lenses - 400/5.6, 300/4, 70-200/2.8 - paired to large, heavy camera bodies (i.e., a pro body with a vertical grip), these lenses can be difficult to balance properly.
I didn't have trouble with my 300/4L, but the 400/5.6 is a problem, particularly with a 1.4x on there.

I'm using the long RRS plates.

[foxbat]

The Wimberley www.tripodhead.com (http://www.tripodhead.com) catalog booklet makes note that in the case of smaller collared lenses - 400/5.6, 300/4, 70-200/2.8 - paired to large, heavy camera bodies (i.e., a pro body with a vertical grip), these lenses can be difficult to balance properly.
I didn't have trouble with my 300/4L, but the 400/5.6 is a problem, particularly with a 1.4x on there.

I'm using the long RRS plates.
Yep, it's true and particularly when you start adding TCs and tubes. My own gimbal is the Manfrotto 393 that has a very long asymetrically mounted clamp so you can just turn the whole thing around if you find you're having to push it too far forward.

[b.d.bop]

Yep, it's true and particularly when you start adding TCs and tubes. My own gimbal is the Manfrotto 393 that has a very long asymetrically mounted clamp so you can just turn the whole thing around if you find you're having to push it too far forward.
This might sound crazy, but I wonder if it's worth rigging a weight to strap onto the forward part of the lens barrel to help equalize things for purposes of using the gimbal. I mean seriously - that 400/5.6 can't just be ignored!
I need to think about this...and why hasn't Wimberley??? :confused:

[condyk]

So if the concern is it not balancing when you let go then the solution is to not let go while you use it 'in battle' or clamp the upright if you do let it go. Problem solved. Like any ballhead if you forget to screw it tight the whole thing will crash.

[b.d.bop]

So if the concern is it not balancing when you let go then the solution is to not let go while you use it 'in battle' or clamp the upright if you do let it go. Problem solved. Like any ballhead if you forget to screw it tight the whole thing will crash.
Well, not really. The concern isn't so much about the rig flopping down to the weightier side - it has more to do with the featherweight maneuverability on its center of gravity (as if it's walking in space) conferred by the gimbal when the rig is suspended properly - otherwise a ballhead would do.

[Bubble]

humm...half price. Not bad.

[condyk]

Well, not really. The concern isn't so much about the rig flopping down to the weightier side - it has more to do with the featherweight maneuverability on its center of gravity (as if it's walking in space) conferred by the gimbal when the rig is suspended properly - otherwise a ballhead would do.

Ok, gotcha now ... from memory I think the 400mm hood is metal so how about a magnet hanging underneith, or a bit of velcro and a metal weight?

[condyk]

For info, in case useful to anyone else, I have now bought a 5D with grip and even with the two battery set up and 1.4x TCon it finger-tip balances perfectly. Very happy with this item.

[AdamJL]

Looks good, thanks for this. I'm looking at taking a 300 2.8 from Kerso's hands in the next few weeks and wasn't keen on splurging several hundred more squids on a freaking tripod head!!
How does this cope with a 500? Anyone used it extensively with the super teles? Hopefully a 500 is on the horizon as well.

[b.d.bop]

For info, in case useful to anyone else, I have now bought a 5D with grip and even with the two battery set up and 1.4x TCon it finger-tip balances perfectly. Very happy with this item.
OK, but with which lens attached in front of the 1.4x? Because if it's anything smaller than the 400/5.6, the balance is off. Even the Wimberley Sidekick manual says so.

[condyk]

This clearly isn't the item for you pal. I am perfectly happy with the operation with my 400mm and 70-200mm and with how I intend using it and that ain't with a grip. I really don't understand what the big deal is. You seem determined to be right about something. If you or other people don't think it is a good item or don't think it'll suit your use then don't buy it.

[b.d.bop]

This clearly isn't the item for you pal. I am perfectly happy with the operation with my 400mm and 70-200mm and with how I intend using it and that ain't with a grip. I really don't understand what the big deal is. You seem determined to be right about something. If you or other people don't think it is a good item or don't think it'll suit your use then don't buy it.
Wow. I wasn't expecting that manner of response, condyk, you caught me off guard with it.
I was simply commenting on the fact of the matter. I happen to own the unit and I intend to continue to use it; but prospective buyers should be aware of its limitations. That's my only point.

Please accept my apologies if I somehow stepped on your toes. :(

[condyk]

Our facts of the matter differ. But my facts of the matter work fine. I wonder why your facts don't. I wonder if you actually have the same head.

[b.d.bop]

Our facts of the matter differ. But my facts of the matter work fine. I wonder why your facts don't. I wonder if you actually have the same head.

I'm pleased that your facts work for you.

Here I quote from the Wimberley manual, page 6:

"LENS COMPATIBILITY:
The Sidekick is ideally suited for lenses similar in size to a 300 f/2.8 and can handle a 500 f/4.

Smaller lenses:
Many of our customers use smaller collared lenses on the Sidekick; generally, 400/f5.6, 300 f/4 and 70-200 f/2.8 sized lenses paired with light to medium-weight camera bodies work well. However, when used in conjunction with a large, heavy camera body (e.g., a pro body with vertical grip), these lenses can be difficult to balance properly.

Larger lenses

~~remainder SNIPPED~~"

Now if you wish to respond again like an irate curmudgeon, then have at it. But this has been my experience and as you can plainly see I didn't just conjure it up.

Consider your tone before you respond again, as I have thusfar been respectful to you.

[da_nige]

Come on guys calm it down please. What started as a useful thread is beginning to spiral downwards. Please dont keep at it on the boards as the mods may then lock a perfectly useful thread.

Neil

[b.d.bop]

Come on guys calm it down please. What started as a useful thread is beginning to spiral downwards. Please dont keep at it on the boards as the mods may then lock a perfectly useful thread.

NeilRight. Sorry about the fuss.

[condyk]

To those interested, note that this thread is about the ebay Kirk King Cobra clone, not other branded products that I am not in a position to test, and its use in practice. Any queries on usage then please feel free to post and I'll report findings if I can.

I can conclude that based on my set up and testing with 70-200 IS L 4.0 and 400mm 5.6 L both work fine with a 5D and grip and TCon and batteries. If you want to add tubes in there for fun, with a still smaller lens on this specific head, or a larger body/weight still, then you may and probably will have a problem in balancing. Anyone who has enjoyed a see-saw ride will get the obvious theory! But the rig will still be usable ... you just lose the finger-tip light manoeuvrability and it becomes similar to a ballhead but with more flexibility and speed.

The solution is to take the grip off and/or ensure the plate is correctly adjusted I'd of thought. If you simply must have the grip on (why?) or are using a 1 Series body and too heavy, then you may need to find a different head that works better for you. Or you can use this head without the feather-light touch - it still does a great job. Everything has its limits.

[tekkie]

finally ordered one of these, cant wait to put it to test

[jack lumber]

The cat seems to approve of it. ;)

Yes it was subjected to a catscan:D

[condyk]

finally ordered one of these, cant wait to put it to test

Which one ya get? The Kirk lookalike or the Wimberley? They've been out of stock of the one I have for a long time.

[tekkie]

I ordered the gimbal sidekick from digital video, it better not be out of stock :(

its the same one I think http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380094063013&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:CA:11

they dont mention it not being in stock, nor the shipping time, oh man now you got me worried lol I need this by jan 18th for a shoot

thanks for posting this btw I could never justify the "original" one :)

btw one question do you think the PT-20 plate will balance properly with the 400 5.6 + 1.4 tc + 40D + grip? same for the 100-400L ? and I have a 5D MKII with grip as well

if not then I may need to ask them for a PT-30 plate, I ordered 2 x 20's right now but I still can change it since its not shipped I hope :)

I saw that you mentioned it may not balance but not sure if you meant that for the 20 or 30 plate ;)

[condyk]

I ordered the gimbal sidekick from digital video, it better not be out of stock :(

btw one question do you think the PT-20 plate will balance properly with the 400 5.6 + 1.4 tc + 40D + grip? same for the 100-400L ? and I have a 5D MKII with grip as well

if not then I may need to ask them for a PT-30 plate, I ordered 2 x 20's right now but I still can change it since its not shipped I hope :)

I saw that you mentioned it may not balance but not sure if you meant that for the 20 or 30 plate ;)

Yeah, that's what I have. I'm sure the stock will be fine. They just haven't advertised them for a long time. On the plates I would get a longer one and a shorter as it'll give some flexibility. I got that set up and used as necessary. Haven't used mine since September and can't remember which plate I used with that same set up. I think you can just try it and see what works. You can always leave the grips off if you need to. One thing to remember is that you must always check all is secure if, like me, you use it on a mono or tripod and sling it over your shoulder. One time I didn't check and the rig fell off! Easy to do.

[tekkie]

ouch !!! yeah I will keep that in mind, I don't want my camera / lens on the ground :)

I think I will get one 20 and one 30 and see how it goes, I can always change them if I need

thanks for the quick answers

[gryphonslair99]

New player in the market. Be interesting to see how this one compares. Looks like it could solve the balance issue that some seem to have.

http://www.feisol.net/feisol-umount-p-64.html?osCsid=2d4c420a49a0ee4ecebcaff15ad29750

[condyk]

Interesting ... but also pricey like the others and looks a bit complicated. Be interesting to see how it goes when it hits the market.

[tekkie]

yowzers that thing is huge but looks like it would be very steady, good for the 800mm

http://www.feisol.net/images/feisol_ua_adapter_med.jpg

[vkalia]

I got me a Wimberley copy as well. I also happen to own a Wimberley (dont ask why I now own both... long story and not one where I come off as the sharpest knife in the drawer) and my initial thoughts:

- The DV product is quite well made. The quality of the machining on my gimbal is very good. It perhaps lack that satin finish of the top-end heads, but since satin finish doesnt do squat for my images while $200 keeps me in a lot of beers, I am very happy to pay less.

- It is solid. I mounted it on a Gitzo 1548, stuck a TV85 astro scope there, slapped on a barlow and some extension tubes to end up with 3000mm+ focal length and took a few shots. Even at 1 second exposures, they were coming out sharp. Of course, this was indoors. I am going to take it for a spin at the end of the month on a 3 week trip. Let's see how it holds up then.

- Balance was not a problem. With lots of extensions and a heavy body sticking off the back of the TV85 scope, balancing this rig is royal pain. Using a long plate I had lying around, I still had to have half the plate sticking out of the clamp on the gimbal. It still held the scope very steady.

- It is heavy. Heavier than the Wimberley. If I had to pick one gimbal, I'd go with the Wimberley simply b/c of the lower weight. Given how much I travel and fly, every little bit saved is nice. And also, if I am hiking with a long lens and a Gitzo 1548 tripod (both are heavy!), the last thing I want to do is add weight to the setup. Even a half kilo savings is worth a $200 difference to me, especially when amortized over the 10-20 years of use I expect to get out of a gimbal.

This last is about the only "negative" I can think of. All in all, a very well made product - and when you factor in the price, a real bargain.

Vandit

[JWright]

For someone who doesn't use a larger lens for birding very often the Wimberley Sidekick is a better bet. Rather than mounting directly to the tripod, the Sidekick slips into the clamp on an Arca-Swiss compatible ball head and allows the head to operate like a gimbal.

http://johnwright.smugmug.com/photos/134381766_aeQda-L.jpg

[vkalia]

Frankly, for a small lens (100-400, 400/5.6 or 300/4), you dont really need a Gimbal. Stick it on a ballhead, loosen the tension a little and let fly.

I have a Sidekick also, and it works pretty much as well as the Wimberley with a 500/4. I dont like the sideloading, which is why I rarely use it.

Vandit

[buddy4344]

This seems like an economic solution vs. the name brand. this thread has a little age. I would love for Condyk or others that made the purchase to comment if they still see the value.

[condyk]

This seems like an economic solution vs. the name brand. this thread has a little age. I would love for Condyk or others that made the purchase to comment if they still see the value.

Definitely! Works great. I see no reason to change it for something that does the exact same thing but costs way more and has a brand name on it.

[buddy4344]

I noticed that the King Cobra has the plate release on the top and this has it on the bottom (probably how they get around a patent???). Do you see this as any kind of plus or minus to the rig?

[condyk]

You can use it either way, top or bottom.

[steve mac]

Just had mine delivered from our Indian friends tonight and looks and feels great straight out of the box, will have a proper play with it at the weekend. Can I ask a really dumb question though? What are all the extra screws in the little bag for? I have never used anything similar before and it seems to work just fine without but wouldn't like a mishap out side.
thanks again for any answers and again for the recommend.
cheers steve

[condyk]

From memory (which is usually terrible!) they supply a range of different sized screws to use with different plates. Glad you like it. A bit of a bargain eh?

[tekkie]

mine has been shipped since sometime last week, its somewhere between India and the US lol

hopefully it shows up before Saturday so I can use it for a shoot

[buddy4344]

I think I am about to pull the trigger on this. A few minor questions: I want to connect a 500 f4. The ad says it can take this, but for those who have it, would this be a comfortable fit? Secondly, What is the quality of the Arca Swiss style base plate? (adequate, as good as RRS, or sucks - you will need to replace) And finally, they throw in a mounting plate. What size would you recommend for connection to a 100-400 lens?

Thanks,

[steve mac]

condyk - as I say I have no experience of using this type of plate it seems to me that I simply screw the screw with the allen key that is already in the long slot of the plate into the lens (300 2.08 is l) collar and I am good to go, therefore not needing any of the other screws but having said that the plate does have other holes at the end that dont seem to serve a purpose. whilst it seems all secure I just wanted reassurance that once I heft it over my shoulder it wont drop off!
buddy - whilst having no experience of this type of mount I do have a ton of other gear and I would describe this as being very good quality but obviously not the benchmark, but at the price who can argue and my limited tests so far show that it handles my lens like a charm. In relation to what size plate you need, when I bought off ebay I just sent a message stating what lens it was for and got a reply by return stating that they would send the appropriate plate which they did.
cant wait to get out and try it properly
all the best
Steve

[vkalia]

If the 300/2.8 foot has 2 holes, attach the plate with 2 screws so that it will not twist and come loose.

The plates also have some anti-slip screws that you can insert to make sure it doesnt slide out of the head's clamp. Also worth installing.

Vandit

[tekkie]

got mine yesterday, the movements are not so smooth because the construction is not top notch or anything but its still pretty good

going to try and put some light oil in between the pieces of plastic to see if it slides a little better

other than that what else do you want for the price :)

one thing I dont like is a 5D MKII + battery grip with only one battery with a 400 5.6L is that the battery grip keeps hitting the base with not really to much angle, maybe 40 degree's or so, with the 2nd battery if I ever find one it will be even worse if you balance it

oh well I still like it, it will get some good use this weekend :)

[MDJAK]

Ideal for the money-wise buyer.

more like for a cheapskate. :lol: ;)

me

[condyk]

one thing I dont like is a 5D MKII + battery grip with only one battery with a 400 5.6L is that the battery grip keeps hitting the base with not really to much angle, maybe 40 degree's or so, with the 2nd battery if I ever find one it will be even worse if you balance it

oh well I still like it, it will get some good use this weekend :)

As a pragmatist I'd take the grip off ;-)

more like for a cheapskate. :lol: ;)

me

I believe there are some who genuinely believe you get what you pay for ... I've never been one of them. I'm more a fit for purpose kinda guy. But I do understand the need for certain middle-aged male Nu Yawkers to wander around the streets of Manhatten like a mildly myopicRobert Doisneau, dressedin black polar-neck sweater and 'classic' Ray-Bans, a titchy and twitchy Pug resting in a man bag over one shoulder and their Wimberley, RSS and Gitzo combo over the other. :cool:

[buddy4344]

OK, back on point. I just ordered mine on eBay. There was a "buy now" price of $110 or a "make a bid" choice. I chose the latter and offered 20% under asking and it was accepted. Since this is probably manufactured in India for ~$20, I feel this will be a win-win deal for both parties. How long did it take for shipping for those who purchased?

[steve mac]

Buddy, I also did the offer thing and offered $90 which they accepted. It arrived a week later
Steve

[tekkie]

damn I never tried that :(

I ordered mine on a saturday and it got here 1 1/2 weeks later

[buddy4344]

Woohoo mine arrived today. Pretty quick turn around. Well wrapped in bubble wrap. While motion is not a really "lubricated feel", it is still quite smooth and acceptable. I cannot image getting many improvements for the cost of the name brand items. Great product and fairy priced vs. competition.

[condyk]

Glad you like it Buddy ... like I said earlier, it's entirely fit for purpose ;-)

[tekkie]

yeah when you try it out without the lens it doesnt feel that smooth but I used mine for about 4 hrs last weekend in pretty cold temps and it worked perfect, it was perfectly smooth

[dyasinski]

I've got a 400mm f/5.6 on the way, before reading this thread I was thinking of getting the Manfrotto 055XPROB with a Manfrotto 488rc2 head; now I'm considering the gimbal. Is the gimbal really that much better than the ball head? It sure sounds like it is. Any thoughts would be great.

[condyk]

Much better. I've owned three 488's and the 400mm is really borderline IMO and there does tend to be some sag.

[rowan57]

Duly bookmarked! I love the look of the gimbal heads & if i ever find the need for a tripod, i shall get a gimbal from the seller at the beginning of the thread.

Cheers
Rowan

[dyasinski]

I'm stuck between two gimbal heads; this one http://cgi.ebay.com/Tripod-Mini-Gimbal-Head-fr-Telephoto-lenses-free-plate_W0QQitemZ380103739843QQihZ025QQcategoryZ3325 QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
And this one http://cgi.ebay.com/Tripod-Gimbal-mount-head-for-large-telephoto-lenses_W0QQitemZ130287165179QQihZ003QQcategoryZ331 9QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
I'm leaning towards the first. It seems to be able to hold a 400mm f/5.6, but would it hold it with a 1.4X converter as well.
Anyone have experience with any of these? Thanks again.

[dyasinski]

I've also been thinking of buying from this company, Jobu-design, and get the Jobu Jr 2 kit; I've read that it may be better quality than the gimbal from India.
http://www.jobu-design.com/catalog/item/2588354/6009620.htm

[condyk]

I'm stuck between two gimbal heads; this one http://cgi.ebay.com/Tripod-Mini-Gimbal-Head-fr-Telephoto-lenses-free-plate_W0QQitemZ380103739843QQihZ025QQcategoryZ3325 QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
And this one http://cgi.ebay.com/Tripod-Gimbal-mount-head-for-large-telephoto-lenses_W0QQitemZ130287165179QQihZ003QQcategoryZ331 9QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
I'm leaning towards the first. It seems to be able to hold a 400mm f/5.6, but would it hold it with a 1.4X converter as well.
Anyone have experience with any of these? Thanks again.

Dude, I have used the first one with 400mm and 1.4 and 2.0 tcons. No problem. The larger one is much heavier and I'd only go that route with a bumper tripod and a 500mm 4.0 IS L type lens.

[buddy4344]

I also have used the lighter one with my 400 f4 and tcons on a 30D with battery pack. Worked perfect. I wouldn't want anything bigger or heavier.

[bobthedog]

Really stupid question, but does the gimbal head just go straight onto the legs - it doesn't need any thing else?

[condyk]

Yup, screws straight on.

[dyasinski]

Condyk, may I ask what tripod legs you use? I was thinking of getting the Manfrotto 055XPROB, for the gimbal plus a 400mm lens. But now I'm thinking of getting something a little better, like maybe a FEISOL CT-3441S (http://www.feisol.net/feisol-ct3441s-with-center-column-tripod-p-38.html). Any thoughts anyone?

[condyk]

I have a Manfrotto 190 MF3 which always worked great and comes recommended. I've just got a Gitzo 1157 tho' which is even lighter and the head works grand on that too. The 055 will be fine but get the MF version if you can as lighter, more rigid and will get more use. I know Feisol and they are good tripods, had a couple of them, but don't know that exact model. Should do fine.

[dyasinski]

I'm now stuck between the Manfrotto 190 MF3 and the 055MF3. My concern about the 190MF3 is its height. I am 6 feet tall and I don't want to be bending over that much. With the gimbal head from India attached would the 190 be tall enough for me?

[hollis_f]

I'm 6'4" and I have big problems using my friend's 500mm on a 190MF3 with a Wimberly head. Any more than 1 minute and my back and neck ache because it's too short. Even my Velbon, which is 20 cm taller than the 190, is a little short for me.

[condyk]

Ha, ha ... yeah Frank, I wouldn't use that combo on the 190 legs TBH. I have them and they are great but they will not support that load nicely IMO. Sure, they'll do it but ... not optimum. You need something taller sounds like as well!

[equetefue]

CondyK....

First off; thanks for taking the time to help all of those who can't justify spending all the money on the brands.

I have a 1d2 and 400 5.6 + 1.4x combo... Will it balance well on the sidekick version ? what plate will I need and how has it hold up ?

Can I add a flash bracket to this one or only the brand ?


I've look and can't find the auction with a make offer sign. Where you guys see that?

[equetefue]

Update.. Went ahead and order the Sidekick knockoff. They accepted my offer of $90.00 so with shipping it went for under $120.00. You can't beat that, so I figure what the heck.

Thanks condyk !

Wonder if it will take a flash bracket. I also need a window bean bag

[condyk]

Hey Eque' that's a nice price.

I used mine with the 1D mk II N and that 400/1.4 combo and worked fine. It's back heavy but in use the 'balance' doesn't matter.

I use The Pod Red bean bag which screws to the lens foot. I love it. On safari the whole rig is together so you lift the camera and the bag comes with it straight to the window. It's fast and secure. It's also very light.

[bobthedog]

Would the sidekick clone work with the sigma 150-500mm? My only concern is that it wouldn't balance very well, as the sigma extends when you zoom in.

[Larry Weinman]

There are some threads on the Fred Miranda forum with pictures of this thing falling apart when used with heavy lenses. No way should this be used with a 300mm f 2.8 or larger

[condyk]

Would the sidekick clone work with the sigma 150-500mm? My only concern is that it wouldn't balance very well, as the sigma extends when you zoom in.

Yeah, I've used it with one and no problem. The 'balance' thing is very nice when you get it not an essential feature in use.

There are some threads on the Fred Miranda forum with pictures of this thing falling apart when used with heavy lenses. No way should this be used with a 300mm f 2.8 or larger

Can I suggest user error ... this is a very sturdy piece of kit but if you unscrew things or fiddle then it will come apart. I can't see how it would fail otherwise. I'm using it with a Nikon 300mm 2.8 VR and tcon in August and am 110% sure it'll be fine. But each person needs their own call on this kinda thing.

[equetefue]

I was going to say... looks like a solid piece of metal.

[buddy4344]

It is actually cast aluminum. If welds are good (and mine looks fine), this thickness and diameter should actually support several hundred pounds!

[equetefue]

Just received mine about 30mins ago and already set-up.. Solid piece of metal. Looks good and works great.

I will put it to the test sometime this week. Very impressed. For the money spend I can't complain at all.

Thanks

[condyk]

Well done 'Etiquette'. I'm sure it'll do a grand job for you too :-)

[4x4rock]

I just went and made an offer for this one too. Let see how they response.

For those that use it with 1D MK II and 300 f2.8, how do you like it? Also which plate did you pick? Is it better just to go with a longer plate instead?

[condyk]

I have a shorter and longer plate and to be honest I pick up whichever I find first and use it. I'm sure there is a difference but not a nightmare if you get the wrong one, other than getting the balance right, which isn't a big deal. I'd probably go for the longer if you only want the one.

[tekkie]

I just picked up a sigma 500mm f4.5 and with a 40D + grip the 30 plate doesn't work great because for it to balance you have it right on the end, so I just ordered the 50 which is the recommended one

[johnathan]

I just picked up a sigma 500mm f4.5 and with a 40D + grip the 30 plate doesn't work great because for it to balance you have it right on the end, so I just ordered the 50 which is the recommended one

I have the 50D and Canon 70-200 2.8ISL and 100-400ISL . In the future I may end up with the 400 5.6L also. Which plate would you get for this combo.

I also have the Manfroto 055XPROB legs. I mainly will be using the 100-400L. Thanks. Guess you just email the seller with the $90 offer ?

[equetefue]

FYI... I talked to the guy and asked him if he had plans for flash bracket... that was 3 weeks ago...

Guess what !? he emailed me today and is selling them as of 2 days ago... I have a pic he emailed me. I'll upload to my server and posted here... looks pretty darn good too.

114 with shipping

[equetefue]

http://s152588970.onlinehome.us/PiCs/Lenses/Flash%20Bracket.jpg

[condyk]

Looks good ... so is that the price just for the flash bracket? That's more than the gimbal. I might consider one of these.

[tekkie]

they sent me a link to this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140310226858&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

I am probably going to pick one up as well

[equetefue]

thats price with shipping. Bracket alone is 87 or so

[johnathan]

condyk
Thanks for this thread and the info.Also thanks to all that posted. I just set the offer via email $90 and it was accepted . Payed today guess I should have it next week. I will be using it with my 50D and 100-400 for now.

Thanks Buddy4344 for the tip on the offer saved me 10% .It all helps.I will let you know how it works out.

[johnathan]

Just wanted to say I received my Gimbel Friday. Love it with my 100-400L the PT20 works perfectly. Adjusted it after putting on the 580EXII with the better beamer and it is perfect!

I really like having the ability to pan and move easily ! I am very satisfied with this purchase.

[condyk]

Glad it's working for you man ... do you have a shot with the 'beamer' attached? Would like to see that rig. Do you have it on a bracket or the hot shoe?

[johnathan]

Glad it's working for you man ... do you have a shot with the 'beamer' attached? Would like to see that rig. Do you have it on a bracket or the hot shoe?

I use it on the hot shoe. Will try to get a photo for you later today.Really helps doing my back yard bird photography. Can't wait to take it out. John



*****Have to wait until a friend can get a shot. Don't have another body and can't see profile in mirror. *****

[tekkie]

I am curious if anyone else has a problem with this locking down good

the lower portion that attaches to the tripod, the horizontal portion locks perfect, when I tighten it down I can pull with all my strength and it doesnt move

now the part that attaches to the lens for the vertical is another story, I can tighten that thing until I get tired and I can still very easily move it

with a 500mm lens, flash & body its impossible to just put this up on your shoulder I have to lift it up and carry it in front of me carefully its getting annoying

I am thinking the problem is that black circular piece between the mounting plate and the arm I think its smooth and it slips easily, I am thinking of putting a washer or something in there

curious if anyone else has the issue and if they have a solution, I didnt really have an issue with the smaller lenses but now the weight is starting to be an issue

[equetefue]

not me... then again I'm not using a 500

[condyk]

curious if anyone else has the issue and if they have a solution, I didnt really have an issue with the smaller lenses but now the weight is starting to be an issue

Largest I carried was BigMos with 1D MK II N and was fine on my shoulder, but I never walked long distance with it. I was more wary of the small screw that holds the Arca plate to the lens. That seems an in build problem with the Arca system itself when you have a large lens attached. Maybe the way to carry the really big stuff is lens on the shoulder and the tripod hanging down.

[tekkie]

yeah thats what I have been trying but it keeps slipping so its not to long and the lens is pointed towards the sky :(

I will try the lock washer on it and see if that helps

[EveryMilesAMemory]

After reading all 7 pages, I ordered one a few weeks back.

$126 bucks shipped and it got here in 4 days!!! HOLY SH#T! I had ordered something else from a few states away and that took longer than this peice coming from India.

Got it and like everyone has said, it looks like a sturdy piece of equipment. A bit heavy, but I'm putting the 400 f/2.8 on it, so weight isnt really an issue for me.

You cant really compare it to the Wimberly Sidekick because you dont need a ball head to mount this on. It's more like a Jubo Design model.

At first, I could barely spin the head freely when just holding it. I ordered the P50 Plate which is the largest one they offer. I'll probably order a few of the smaller ones to be able to use this with a few of our smaller lenses like the 70-200 or 28-300 now that I know how well it works.

Once I put it on my Monopod and mounted the 400/2.8, it moves with 2 fingers and is a breeze to use. I'm not so worried about the lens coming off the mount as I am with the whole head coming off the monopod.

Our Manfrotto NEOTec Monopod doesnt have that long of a screw stud to go as far as I'd like it to into the bottom of the Gimball Head. I'll have to check with Manfrotto to see if there is a longer one I can order

http://everymilesamemory.smugmug.com/photos/525828021_zWdkY-L-1.jpg

We went out on Thursday of last week and spent the day at the Global Wildlife Center (http://everymilesamemory.smugmug.com/gallery/8070567_Rn9WL#525750516_dC2zi) in Folsom Louisiana to test it out.

Up to this point, I had been using the 400/2.8 just mounted to the top of the monopod and it made it very cumbersome to use to follow a moving animal. That might work for sports where you're only panning from side to side as a car is driving past. But try moving the monopod, lens and body up and down while going from side to side and you look like you're having some sort of convulsion.

Pictures speak for themselves and I've never taken sharper images with this lens to date.

http://everymilesamemory.smugmug.com/photos/525924580_esRtq-L-1.jpg
You can see it mounted to the 400mm on the floor of the Pinzgauer

http://everymilesamemory.smugmug.com/photos/525940204_mLFdp-L-1.jpg

Once we got home and I was taking it apart to put away, I noticed that the P50 Plate is long enough to mount two screws onto the bottom of the lens foot itself, then feed two more screws into the threaded screw holes in the bottom of the aluminum piece the plate slides into.

Next time we head out for a full day of shooting, I'll probably take the time to do this just for insurance and piece of mind. There is no way it could come loose with 4 screws in it and the normal handle screwed down.

Only problem is there is no way to take it off of the head without unscrewing the two extra allen screws. So it would hav eto be a day where we plan on leaving the lens on the monopod for the whole day.

If anyone is on the fence on whether to get this or not, I'd recommend it in a heart beat. I'm actually thinking about ordering another one because of how easy this is to use. Our 28-300L is a heavy lens and normal heads make it teadious to use. I think this would be a breeze for any heavey lens and so worth the money.

Thanks for the original post and the savings you offered to us. Another Reason why I LOVE POTN!!!!!!! (looks to the stack of money with eyeballs on the couch and thinks "That the money I could have saved if I had known about this earlier"...)

[condyk]

Excellent write up Pat. The gimbal looks fully at home in the back of the truck there.

[EveryMilesAMemory]

Thanks again for the recommendation Condyk!!

I should have posted this shot instead of the one with my wife in it because this one shows the gimball head better

http://everymilesamemory.smugmug.com/photos/526051954_kXioR-L-1.jpg

But the other shot shows a much better looking photographer:D

[EveryMilesAMemory]

I finally Posted my full review (http://www.everymilesamemory.com/cinecity_gimball_head_review.htm#TOP) of the CineCity Gimball head if anyone is interested in reading it.

I was thinking of making it a seperate Thread on this forum just to give fellow photographers a understanding of what to expect with this great purchase

http://www.everymilesamemory.com/Images%204/CineCity%20Gimball%20Head%20-%20EMAM%20(1).JPG

http://www.everymilesamemory.com/Images%204/CineCity%20Gimball%20Head%20-%20EMAM%20(4).JPG

[equetefue]

I love mine too... excellent read !

I will be ordering the flash bracket in 2 weeks along with a Off shoe cord.

[EveryMilesAMemory]

Make sure you post up a review on the flash bracket, I'm still debating on getting it

[condyk]

Excellent and objective review. Nice one!

[burgerdude]

Reviews like this is why my "Things to buy" list NEVER get smaller! :rolleyes:

[tekkie]

I ended up ordering the larger wimberly style head because using a flash & 500mm was not sturdy when moving around (I mean when I put it over my shoulder and walking, otherwise it worked fine)

so I got this one and the lock downs work awesome it does not move around at all now when I put it over my shoulder :)

I ended up ordering the camo style one but its fairly obvious its just the black one and then they paint it, the paint seems to scratch off the base fairly easy when you put the lens plates in but thats not a big deal

the only problem is the base is slightly tilted, and I had the exact same issue with the smaller one as well, its very annoying as its off by a few degree's, there is a thin piece of rubber between the base and the clamp I am going to double up the one side and I think that will get rid of the small tilt

http://www.tekkiesphoto.com/photos/581194120_bYnz5-L.jpg

other pics here
http://www.tekkiesphoto.com/photos/581195416_6yaGo-L.jpg
http://www.tekkiesphoto.com/photos/581196335_u5J86-L.jpg
http://www.tekkiesphoto.com/photos/581194474_no3eB-L.jpg

I also purchased their flash bracket which is actually very very well made, I was expecting it to be a little shabby but I cant imagine the wimberly one is any better http://www.thecinecity.com/tcc/product.php?productid=133&cat=273&page=1

I ordered both together and I ended up with 2 lens plates, not sure how I am thinking the one came with the flash although it does not show on their site or their ebay listings either, its a PT40 or PT50

for the money I am super happy, for both the head & the flash brackets its still way cheaper than the wimberley one alone, this does weigh a bit more than the real one though

http://www.tekkiesphoto.com/photos/581194474_no3eB-L.jpg

[EveryMilesAMemory]

I said I would update this thread after using the CineCity for a few months and seeing how it held up.

I've used it ALOT in the past two months. My wife and I are working for the entire summer/fall season in Yellowstone National Park and we're out shooting at least 3-4 days each week, most of the times for very long periods.

First things first, you get what you pay for. Does the CineCity head hold the lens steady? Yes. Does it do it well? No, not really

After about a month of using it daily, it started squeaking pretty loud when ever I'd be panning the 400mm lens that's usually mounted on it. It got to the point that I was shooting some Prong Horns and when I went to pan, the head squeaked so loud, the animals all jumped up and ran away:oops:

We went ahead and ordered the full Wimberly II Head (http://www.tripodhead.com/products/wimberley-main.cfm) and I'd have to say, the CineCity isnt even comparable once you use the Wimberly. It's like Oil and Water.

I know, I know, they really arent comparable, but if you ever have a chance to use a Wimberly, you'll know what I mean. Its like using a point and shoot and a 1D MarkIIn to shoot sports. Sure they both will take pictures, one just does it light years ahead of the other.

Its hard to discribe unless you've handled one, but the Wimberly is so smooth, the metal actually feels soft. I'm not sure how metal can feel soft, but I've had at least 5 different photographers use it, and every one of them have come back saying "That's the best thing I've ever had my lens on, and I know this sounds funny, but the metal feels so smooth it feels soft."

The CineCity mounting plate has such sharp edges on it, it can be uncomfortable to hold for any length of time. The Wimberly is like holding the foot plate of the Canon Base and is as smooth as a babies butt.

So in conclusion, I still use the CineCity for the smaller lenses like the 28-300L or the 70-200L f/2.8, but the 400 f/2.8 or the 500 f/4 only goes on the Wimberly. Baiscally I use the CineCity if my wife Cindy is shooting with me, because once she used the Wimberly, she refuses to go back to the CineCity:confused:

I know this thread was started to help save money, but I really think it just got me addicted to Gimball heads, and once you start using one, you'll only want one on your tripod no matter what lens you're using.

I'd say the CineCity is great for someone who uses a long, heavy lens occasionally, but if you're shooting alot, then save your money and only buy one Gimball, a Wimberly!

[jhom]

I said I would update this thread after using the CineCity for a few months and seeing how it held up.

I've used it ALOT in the past two months. My wife and I are working for the entire summer/fall season in Yellowstone National Park and we're out shooting at least 3-4 days each week, most of the times for very long periods.

First things first, you get what you pay for. Does the CineCity head hold the lens steady? Yes. Does it do it well? No, not really

After about a month of using it daily, it started squeaking pretty loud when ever I'd be panning the 400mm lens that's usually mounted on it. It got to the point that I was shooting some Prong Horns and when I went to pan, the head squeaked so loud, the animals all jumped up and ran away:oops:

We went ahead and ordered the full Wimberly II Head (http://www.tripodhead.com/products/wimberley-main.cfm) and I'd have to say, the CineCity isnt even comparable once you use the Wimberly. It's like Oil and Water.

I know, I know, they really arent comparable, but if you ever have a chance to use a Wimberly, you'll know what I mean. Its like using a point and shoot and a 1D MarkIIn to shoot sports. Sure they both will take pictures, one just does it light years ahead of the other.

Its hard to discribe unless you've handled one, but the Wimberly is so smooth, the metal actually feels soft. I'm not sure how metal can feel soft, but I've had at least 5 different photographers use it, and every one of them have come back saying "That's the best thing I've ever had my lens on, and I know this sounds funny, but the metal feels so smooth it feels soft."

The CineCity mounting plate has such sharp edges on it, it can be uncomfortable to hold for any length of time. The Wimberly is like holding the foot plate of the Canon Base and is as smooth as a babies butt.

So in conclusion, I still use the CineCity for the smaller lenses like the 28-300L or the 70-200L f/2.8, but the 400 f/2.8 or the 500 f/4 only goes on the Wimberly. Baiscally I use the CineCity if my wife Cindy is shooting with me, because once she used the Wimberly, she refuses to go back to the CineCity:confused:

I know this thread was started to help save money, but I really think it just got me addicted to Gimball heads, and once you start using one, you'll only want one on your tripod no matter what lens you're using.

I'd say the CineCity is great for someone who uses a long, heavy lens occasionally, but if you're shooting alot, then save your money and only buy one Gimball, a Wimberly!
Thanks for the feedback. I was wondering how the inexpensive gimbal would holdup with use and time. Personally, I would never mount my gear on a knockoff product. I love my Wimberley gimbal. It makes shooting with the super-teles a piece of cake.

[condyk]

I know this thread was started to help save money, but I really think it just got me addicted to Gimball heads, and once you start using one, you'll only want one on your tripod no matter what lens you're using.

I'd say the CineCity is great for someone who uses a long, heavy lens occasionally, but if you're shooting alot, then save your money and only buy one Gimball, a Wimberly!

Fair comment. If I was using mine weekly, let alone 3-4 days a week I would upgrade. As it, mine does the job. For the squeak could you dab a tad of WD40 in the joint?

[tekkie]

Fair comment. If I was using mine weekly, let alone 3-4 days a week I would upgrade. As it, mine does the job. For the squeak could you dab a tad of WD40 in the joint?

Mine squeaked once in a while as well, I am quite sure the reason it does is because the lens is to heavy and its putting pressure on the plastic sliders. It was especially annoying when panning horizontally because the weight of the lens was to much and it would stick, I would put my hand on the corner of the head and pull down to counter act the weight and it would move much smoother. For sure a 400 2.8 is to heavy for that head, just like my 500L was.

You wouldn't want to use WD40 because that stuff does not last long and I think it can damage plastic , but something like white grease would work well, the only problem is then the lock downs maybe wont work that great.

I think this wimberley model would hold up much better than the gimbal one, I dont use mine a ton so I will probably never know but I will update with my experience later as well.

EveryMilesAMemory your comparing two different animals the gimbal style vs the wimberley style are very different, even the 2 from this company I can tell you there is a huge improvement for big lenses with the wimberley style. I agree with what you posted though I have tried a wimberley in a store and its definitely smoother panning, the body is smoother / better quality control / little lighter etc, there is no doubt that the knock off is just a quick mold and they are not spending time grinding / sanding it.

The gimbal one works amazing for small lenses, I used it with the 400 5.6 and the 100-400 and it worked great. For larger lenses forget it, on their ebay listing they say it will work with a 500mm lens but imo it doesnt, I even contacted them and they said oh its not designed for 500mm lenses, I said really so why does your ebay listings say it does, no response which is what I expected.

[J-dubya]

nice review EMAM and props on the wife

[BradM]

Using a oil based lube on gimbals or sidemounts isn't recommended due to a couple reasons, plastics don't often mix well with the lubes propellant/carrier and locking down or slowing the pan is much more of an on/off situation than a tempering of the speed of movement.

My personal favorite full gimbal and sidemounts are the Jobu, a great piece of kit. From pouring rain on the coast to 100 plus temps in the desert they work just like they are supposed to every single day. Using the Black Widow HD for the 500mm and the sidemount for the 400mm DO.

[EveryMilesAMemory]

nice review EMAM and props on the wife

Thanks Dubya! I'm in way over my league

I thought about dabbing some oil on sliders, but my worries were it might attract dirt or dust (The usualy weather we're shooting in) and then I'd worry it would compound the squeak on down the road.

I agree with the others, the CineCity is great for lighter lenses and photographers who arent shooting daily, but if you're working it non-stop, then move up to the Wimberly. Smooth as silk! And the Customer Service on their end is amazing.

I've tried to contact the CineCity people numerous times through email, and usually get a reply back a week or so later, and it's like I'm talking with Aphu from the Simpsons with the broken English and it usually doesnt answer my original question.

Wimberly is like talking with a good friend who happens to be a professional photographer. When I told them I was wanting to get a flash mount like the one Tekkie posted a picture of to mount my flash with a Better Beamer, she even asked what my email address was and shot me an email while I was on the phone with her on the best place to pick up the Better Beamer

This is probably the first time in Years I've been 100% satisfied with spending more to have it be made in America and know my hard earned money is going to a company I trust. Cant say that for too many of the vehicles or products I've purchased in the past 10 years.

[tekkie]

agreed on the weak responses from Cinecity I sent them an email and they wrote me back some BS barely related to my question and certinally not answering it :)

I have never heard a bad thing about wimberley either, they seem to be very top notch

[equetefue]

I just received the flash bracket and I must say that I'm most certainly impressed by the workmanship

[EveryMilesAMemory]

I have the flash bracket from Wimberly too. I'd love to see some photos of the one from CineCity to compare.

I'm planning on doing a similar review of the Wimberly outfit like I did with the CineCity, but I think I jumped the gun on the CineCity, so I was planning on using the Wimberly for a month or two before I wrote a review of it.

I'll make sure I post a link up when I have the Review done so we can all compare

[equetefue]

I'll take some pics tomorrow. I'm so impressed with it. If someone wpuld have told me that it was a Wimberly I would have believed it

[EveryMilesAMemory]

I'll take some pics tomorrow. I'm so impressed with it. If someone wpuld have told me that it was a Wimberly I would have believed it

Sounds good, I'm eager to see what it looks like and the craftsmanship of it.

[tekkie]

Sounds good, I'm eager to see what it looks like and the craftsmanship of it.

look in post 114 thats what it is

it looks exactly like the wimberley one, its very well made and a hellavu lot cheaper :)

[KayakPhotos]

*subscribed*...This might make a great option for me in the future when I get my 400mm f/5.6L. I think that it would be fine for that, and the largest lens I ever plan on getting (at this point) is the 300 2.8 IS.

[equetefue]

Sincity Sidekick and Flash bracket. Really happy with both

http://s152588970.onlinehome.us/PiCs/Lenses/0021.jpg

[claybuster]

Can you mount the flash bracket to the foot of the tripod ring in anyway so it can be hand held? I would like to use my better beamer with my 100-400 hand held with a bracket like this.

[equetefue]

yes you can bolt it to the foot and use it as support.