Can't get off-camera Speedlite to fire w/sync cord

[Tom Camilleri]

I have two 580EX IIs set to manual mode, off camera. One is set as master the other as slave. The master is connected to camera via a sync cord. When I use the master's test flash button, both units fire, however the camera fails to trigger the master. Is there some setting I'm missing in either the camera or flash that is causing this? The cable was purchased amonth or so ago but is being used for the first time.

Any help appreciated.

Edit: I noticed that if the master was put in ETTL mode it does flash, which rules out the cable.

[Tom Camilleri]

Just got off with Canon tech support and found that I was taking a completely wrong approach. Master-slave relationship between Speedlites can only exist when the flashes are operating in ETTL mode. Any time one Speedlite is controlling another, the flashes are not in manual mode and ETTL is determining flash output even if ratio is set manually. A 580EX II connected via a sync cord cannot be used to trigger another 580EX II. When a 580EX II on-camera triggers another Speedlite, they are using ETTL. To accomplish my original intended scenario, I need to use an optical slave on the Speedlite which is not connected to the camera via sync cord.

If anyone notices an inaccuracy please correct me, as I have an e-mail from Canon tech support which contradicts what I got on the phone tonight. I'm taking tonight's discussion with tech support as definitive as the tech answered all my questions in detail. I think I might have gotten my previous e-mail from a rookie.

[Lotto]

When the 580 II in master mode, it disable the the sync port. You still can use the 580 II as a off camera master in manual mode, but the sync cord has to go though the hotshoe with a adapter.

[PacAce]

Just got off with Canon tech support and found that I was taking a completely wrong approach. Master-slave relationship between Speedlites can only exist when the flashes are operating in ETTL mode. Any time one Speedlite is controlling another, the flashes are not in manual mode and ETTL is determining flash output even if ratio is set manually. A 580EX II connected via a sync cord cannot be used to trigger another 580EX II. When a 580EX II on-camera triggers another Speedlite, they are using ETTL. To accomplish my original intended scenario, I need to use an optical slave on the Speedlite which is not connected to the camera via sync cord.

If anyone notices an inaccuracy please correct me, as I have an e-mail from Canon tech support which contradicts what I got on the phone tonight. I'm taking tonight's discussion with tech support as definitive as the tech answered all my questions in detail. I think I might have gotten my previous e-mail from a rookie.
What the Canon customer support person said to you is not completely accurate. The flashes do not need to be in ETTL mode for them to work in a wireless remote configuration.

As Lotto indicated in the previous post, you will need to use a hotshoe to PC adapter in order to fire your manual master because the sync port on the flash is disabled. The master has to be in manual mode although the slave can be in manual mode or ETTL mode. When the slave is in ETTL mode, you will need to set its output level via the master flash.

One other note. Be sure to set your shutter speed to 1/125 or slower.

[Tom Camilleri]

When the 580 II in master mode, it disable the the sync port. You still can use the 580 II as a off camera master in manual mode, but the sync cord has to go though the hotshoe with a adapter.

Ahhhh! Thanks!

[Tom Camilleri]

What the Canon customer support person said to you is not completely accurate. The flashes do not need to be in ETTL mode for them to work in a wireless remote configuration.

As Lotto indicated in the previous post, you will need to use a hotshoe to PC adapter in order to fire your manual master because the sync port on the flash is disabled. The master has to be in manual mode although the slave can be in manual mode or ETTL mode. When the slave is in ETTL mode, you will need to set its output level via the master flash.

One other note. Be sure to set your shutter speed to 1/125 or slower.

Thanks again Leo. Will try as you suggest. Don't quite get why the shutter speed needs to be so low. Is it that the flash just can't sync with anything faster over a PC cord? Would a single flash on a PC cord still need 1/125 or slower? What about multiple flashes fired from an on-camera master?

[PacAce]

Thanks again Leo. Will try as you suggest. Don't quite get why the shutter speed needs to be so low. Is it that the flash just can't sync with anything faster over a PC cord? Would a single flash on a PC cord still need 1/125 or slower? What about multiple flashes fired from an on-camera master?
We had this conversation once before, Tom. Remember? http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=4960988&postcount=20 ;)

But to further clarify the sync speed, the slower sync speed is only required when using flashes in a Master/Slave conversation and the master is connected to the camera via the sync terminal or fired via an RF transmitter. For ordinary flashes or strobes connected to the PC terminal or fired via an RF transmitter, the normal max sync speed of the camera can be used, assuming the flashes, the strobes or the RF transmitter supports the max sync speed.

[FlashZebra]

Thanks again Leo. Will try as you suggest. Don't quite get why the shutter speed needs to be so low. Is it that the flash just can't sync with anything faster over a PC cord? Would a single flash on a PC cord still need 1/125 or slower? What about multiple flashes fired from an on-camera master?
You only need to use the slow shutter speed if you are doing what I call "hybrid triggering", part basic sync (like with an off camera sync cord), and part Canon infrared.

If you just use a sync cord on a flash and do not try to use other flash units by triggering them with the Canon infrared system, you will not be encumbered with the mitigated X-sync speed.

You might try punching "hybrid" into the searach feature, there are a lot of threads on this issue.

Enjoy! Lon

[Curtis N]

If you want to keep the 1/250 sync speed, keep both units in manual mode, attach an optical slave to the PC socket of one and connect the other to your camera.

[Tom Camilleri]

Sorry I didn't remember the details of your previous explanation. Having actually tried this now, I think I will remember. :) Thanks for helping.

[Tom Camilleri]

You only need to use the slow shutter speed if you are doing what I call "hybrid triggering", part basic sync (like with an off camera sync cord), and part Canon infrared.

If you just use a sync cord on a flash and do not try to use other flash units by triggering them with the Canon infrared system, you will not be encumbered with the mitigated X-sync speed.

You might try punching "hybrid" into the searach feature, there are a lot of threads on this issue.

Enjoy! Lon

Thanks Lon. Will check these threads out.

[Tom Camilleri]

If you want to keep the 1/250 sync speed, keep both units in manual mode, attach an optical slave to the PC socket of one and connect the other to your camera.

Thanks Curtis. Will keep this in mind.

[FlashZebra]

Thanks Lon. Will check these threads out.
Note that many of these threads deal with Pocket Wizard or Skyport use. But they work just like a basic sync cord, shorting the two most fundimental flash contacts for basic sync.

Enjoy! Lon