lil help from my fellow sports shooters sideline access

[liam5100]

I have a situation and would greatly appreciate some input and advice from my fellow forum members.

I have a son who is currently in the 8th grade and has been very involved in athletics for the last few years. During these years I have been shooting his events/games with no problems at all, at this level no one has made any issues about a photographer on the sidelines.

My problem is this, he will be in high school this coming year and access to the fields/court sides are much more restricted and I've been told terms when asking his high school about access such as "limited" or "exclusive arrangements" with other photographers.

I understand they may have commercial contracts or arrangements with other photographers for commercial purposes, but my intent isnt one of a commercial nature. More just a parent that happens to be a professional and wants to document their kids sports in a professional manner themselves.

So have any of you run into this "limiting" camera's on the sidelines thing, or what advice or tips do you have to be able to get access to take these shots?

[ItzBitzHair]

in my area we dont have any one shooting other than the occasional new paper.... and our acces is wide open.. But all you should need to do is contact the AD and Explain your situation and see what they offer you.

Its I am sure different for Outside sports. That is where my delima is

[namasste]

I have not really seen this around here for prep sports unless it's playoff time. Here's what I'd do...contact the AD and coach and let them know who you are and what you want to do. Usually that is enough. Understand that they can't give access to every parent that wants to take pictures but perhaps if you offer to give them some images as well for school use, they'd be amenable.

[KirkHMB]

Usually a quick chat with the coach will get you most anything you need. Most HS sports don't get enough coverage for their end of season party, much less anything else. Ask the coach to have the AD give you a letter blessing your presence, chat up the refs before the game, especially at away games, and stay out of the way. Should work fine up to playoffs, or the occasional power hungry ref. I've shot HS soccer and VB with no problems at all to date.

I've seen more grief at club sports than HS sports by psycho refs so far.

[corythosaurus]

I just started photographing high school sports this last fall. I started photographing soccer as my son was on the team. Field access for soccer was wide open, just walked out of the bleachers down to the sidelines and started shooting. Acted like I was supposed to be there, introduced myself to the coaches.

Since then, I have contacted the Athletic Director, Yearbook Staff, several coaches, the Principal and her Administrator and have acquired an official "press pass" from the school. I now flash the badge and can get into any home event.

I offered photos for yearbook inclusion and their "Mustang TV" video presentations, so that helps.

[liam5100]

I have not really seen this around here for prep sports unless it's playoff time. Here's what I'd do...contact the AD and coach and let them know who you are and what you want to do. Usually that is enough. Understand that they can't give access to every parent that wants to take pictures but perhaps if you offer to give them some images as well for school use, they'd be amenable.


Thanks guys. I did contact the AD and the coach, both told me they have an "exclusive" contract with another photographer and that they reccomend I hire her, or buy images directly from her website.

I'm just wondering if there is another avenue, technique or angle to try.

By the way, Scott, I see your a memeber of SportsShooter, any tips for a guy getting accepted on there as well?

[liam5100]

Since then, I have contacted the Athletic Director, Yearbook Staff, several coaches, the Principal and her Administrator and have acquired an official "press pass" from the school. I now flash the badge and can get into any home event.

Thats exactly what I am looking for, and I understand their "exclusive" contract and I have no issues with their right to do that, but I am not looking to compete commercially. I'm interested only documentary or artistic images for my own limited use.

[namasste]

Thanks guys. I did contact the AD and the coach, both told me they have an "exclusive" contract with another photographer and that they reccomend I hire her, or buy images directly from her website.

I'm just wondering if there is another avenue, technique or angle to try.

By the way, Scott, I see your a memeber of SportsShooter, any tips for a guy getting accepted on there as well?
I can't believe they suggested you buy her images! Just since I have a spiteful side at times (bad quality, I know), I'd rent a 400 (or longer) and show up for a game and shoot from as close as you can get to the sideline without being on it. They cannot bar you from that in a public venue but you better believe you'd get her attention and concern. You'd get some great shots of your kid as well. I simply don't understand why so many HS photogs are so territorial and paranoid. If their work is better and they work harder ad advertising themselves, they've got nothing to worry about, if not, maybe they should work a little more at it. Sheesh! Maybe you can contact the photog and discuss the situation with her. Hopefully she's reasonable and it isn't an issue. Bottom line, they can restrict where you can shoot from but they cannot stop you from shooting your own kid for personal use. Try rational conversation with all parties and if that fails, rent some BIG glass and shoot from the stands then give away pics to your child's friends. I say that somewhat tongue in cheek since it's a bit childish in it's approach, on the other hand, maybe it'll get the school and photog to see how silly they are being.

As for SportsShooter, I had to get a senior member to sponsor me then submit an application and images. They are pretty picky and emphasize captioning as much as the images themselves. My advice would be to find a sponsor and share your potential captions and images with him/her for critique, then have at it.

[liam5100]

I'd rent a 400 (or longer)

As for SportsShooter, I had to get a senior member to sponsor me then submit an application and images. They are pretty picky and emphasize captioning as much as the images themselves. My advice would be to find a sponsor and share your potential captions and images with him/her for critique, then have at it.

LOL, thanks Scott, I have that "side" as well. However the reason I started shooting my kids at this in the first place was her quality, IMO its severaly lacking, she just goes with the "spray and pray" method and puts every shot up for sale on her website, and has NO clue on post production at all. They are straight from her D40 right to the website. The thing is, they attend private school and this "exclusive" photographers family are BIG financial contributors. She has tried several times to get the schools to ban all cameras at the events period, so talking to her is not condusive to getting anything done.

As far as renting the glass, I already own most of it, however my longest lens is the 300 2.8L, but that still gets the job done especially with the 1.4 on it, and I can use my 1d III to get the extra 1.3crop factor as well.

And Sportsshooter, I wouldnt even know where to begin to get the help of a senior member.

[Mike R]

Have them check the contract. Most of them are for the Yearbook photos and the photog. has to agree to cover at least one game from each sport, which they don't get paid for,along with the team photos, . If that's the case, you should be allowed on the sidelines. At one of the schools I shoot action for, I have worked along side the contracted pro without a problem. He has even given me business advice. If my work is cutting into his, he hasn't said so. All you want to get is your own kid, she shouldn't feel threatened by you. Maybe a comprimise can be worked out. If she doesn't cover every game maybe you can be granted access when she isn't there.

As a last resort, tell her she cannot photograph your child and that his picture cannot be posted on here website. Even if he is not the primary player in the shot. This would severly curtail her ability to post photos and she may allow you access to the sidelines.
It's not like you have a P&S, set on auto and want to be where the action is.

[namasste]

LOL, thanks Scott, I have that "side" as well. However the reason I started shooting my kids at this in the first place was her quality, IMO its severaly lacking, she just goes with the "spray and pray" method and puts every shot up for sale on her website, and has NO clue on post production at all. They are straight from her D40 right to the website. The thing is, they attend private school and this "exclusive" photographers family are BIG financial contributors. She has tried several times to get the schools to ban all cameras at the events period, so talking to her is not condusive to getting anything done.

As far as renting the glass, I already own most of it, however my longest lens is the 300 2.8L, but that still gets the job done especially with the 1.4 on it, and I can use my 1d III to get the extra 1.3crop factor as well.

And Sportsshooter, I wouldnt even know where to begin to get the help of a senior member.

if you take that 300, throw the tc and hood on it and impress her with your size (so to speak:lol:). she sounds like a real treat.

[Big K]

Contact the schools where you team plays on the road and get permission to shoot there. Her crazy control freak nature can't stop that.

There is no doubt in my mind that if I were in your situation I would go out of my way to give away as many pictures as possible. In fact if you lived a bit closer I would come to some of your games to take extra shots you could give away. Spite is better than cash in some instances.

Good luck.

[ChrisRabior]

Limited access is usually in place to protect the players. Certain situations where there wouldn't be a limited access policy could result in sidelines that had more shooters than players (in the extreme cases).

It's basically in place to keep mom and her p&s off the sidelines. They only want people who know what they're doing on the sidelines.

Talk w/ the AD and see what you can work out.

[liam5100]

Limited access is usually in place to protect the players. Certain situations where there wouldn't be a limited access policy could result in sidelines that had more shooters than players (in the extreme cases).

It's basically in place to keep mom and her p&s off the sidelines. They only want people who know what they're doing on the sidelines.

Talk w/ the AD and see what you can work out.

I shoot professionally, and not with a point and shoot. My only interest in sports at this level is because of my kids being involved. The AD is the one that told me they have an "exclusive" contract with this one photographer.

[liam5100]

Contact the schools where you team plays on the road and get permission to shoot there. Her crazy control freak nature can't stop that.

There is no doubt in my mind that if I were in your situation I would go out of my way to give away as many pictures as possible. In fact if you lived a bit closer I would come to some of your games to take extra shots you could give away. Spite is better than cash in some instances.

Good luck.

I thought about that as well, whats the most tactical way to approach another venue for shooting? Tell them I'm freelance, tell them I'm submitting for news? etc?

[Big K]

Unless you have a contact with a news organization I would probably not use that just in case they check you out. I would probably tell them you are taking pictures for your school to use as they need.

If you get any resistance you might offer to provide their school with a few shots as a good will gesture. Around here, at the high school level, nobody questions me about anything. I think part of it is carrying around a 400 f/2.8 and a bag full of other crap that at least makes me look like I am there for something important.

[liam5100]

yeah I've gotten away with that "look like Im supposed to be there" technique as well but these high schools are large games and are almost like small NCAA games.

[namasste]

yeah I've gotten away with that "look like Im supposed to be there" technique as well but these high schools are large games and are almost like small NCAA games.

fwiw, I went to a high school like that and still shoot for them from time to time. surprisingly (or maybe not so much), images are plentiful for parents to buy but often the AD and/or coach never see any of them. I offered to burn a disc for the coach and AD at several big schools this past hoops season and you'd have thought I was offering to cut their grass for the summer. Seriously, they were really appreciative and told me to come shoot anytime after that. Pretty simple and effective.

[liam5100]

fwiw, I went to a high school like that and still shoot for them from time to time. surprisingly (or maybe not so much), images are plentiful for parents to buy but often the AD and/or coach never see any of them. I offered to burn a disc for the coach and AD at several big schools this past hoops season and you'd have thought I was offering to cut their grass for the summer. Seriously, they were really appreciative and told me to come shoot anytime after that. Pretty simple and effective.

That a good idea too Scott and I'll probably incorporate that next season if I'm able to get any shots at all this upcoming one. The woman they have this exclusive with has a very solid inside track and if she had it her way, parents wouldnt even be allowed camera's in the stands.

I don't have anything to offer the AD or coaches this year since I havent shot anything for this school just yet.

My question now is, whats the best way to approach the AD's and administration of the opposing teams to be allowed access at the away games? Should I just get a sit down, show them some of my books, or just show up like I'm supposed to be there etc?

[photoguy6405]

I shoot professionally, and not with a point and shoot. My only interest in sports at this level is because of my kids being involved. The AD is the one that told me they have an "exclusive" contract with this one photographer.

The fact that you're a pro and have better equipment than most is really irrelevant. You're not the 'official' photographer nor are you a student photographer for the student newspaper nor are you a photographer for the local newspaper. You are a parent just like every other parent. There is a method to the madness of keeping unnecessary people on the sidelines to a minimum.

[liam5100]

The fact that you're a pro and have better equipment than most is really irrelevant. You're not the 'official' photographer nor are you a student photographer for the student newspaper nor are you a photographer for the local newspaper. You are a parent just like every other parent. There is a method to the madness of keeping unnecessary people on the sidelines to a minimum.

Being a parent is secondary, I want to shoot for the same reason I shoot any other sports events, having my kid be involved is just a secondary bonus. Often the events and sports I'm interested in shooting my kid wouldnt even be involved in, other than it being his school.

I still find it insulting their solution is to suggest I purchase images from someone with far less quality than what I can produce myself.

[elader]

Isnt a school a public place? Cant you photograph whatever you want fro the sidelines? You arent going into business against her, you want shots of your own kid. I am sure that if you don't sell the shots, they can't stop anyone from photographing a HS football game.

Sidelines? You may be out of luck.

[photoguy6405]

I'm not trying to be obtuse or argumentative, but you're confusing me here. Earlier in the thread you said...

I understand they may have commercial contracts or arrangements with other photographers for commercial purposes, but my intent isnt one of a commercial nature. More just a parent that happens to be a professional and wants to document their kids sports in a professional manner themselves.

...and...

I shoot professionally, and not with a point and shoot. My only interest in sports at this level is because of my kids being involved. The AD is the one that told me they have an "exclusive" contract with this one photographer.

...but, now you say...

Being a parent is secondary, I want to shoot for the same reason I shoot any other sports events, having my kid be involved is just a secondary bonus. Often the events and sports I'm interested in shooting my kid wouldnt even be involved in, other than it being his school.

...so, no offense intended, but it seems that what you really want is for the rules to be bent just for you because it's your kid and you can do it better. And probably for 'free', too, though you haven't actually said or implied that. Look, I perfectly understand your desire, and I shared it when my kid was in high school and played football and baseball, but still the rules are there for good reasons. It's not just to provide income for the bad photographer with a contract, but primarily to keep distractions and potential danger to the players at a minimum. The game itself, and the safety of the players, is the primary factor above all else. They shouldn't be making an exception for you simply because you're a better photographer. And if they did, why shouldn't they then make exceptions for all the mom's with P&Ss? Theoretically, those moms would "need" it more than you because their equipment isn't as good. If they made an exception for you, they wouldn't be able to rationally justify not making exceptions for everybody else.

[namasste]

another thought would be to contact the AD from the opposing schools, get permission and shoot from THEIR sidelines in exchange for a disc afterwards. Obviously, shoot lots of your kid and his team as well then give the images away to your team's parents as often as you can. more than one way to skin a cat (or put psycho photogs out of business). as I said before, if her images are better, she really has nothing to be concerned with. her paranoia leads me to believe that she realizes her work isn't on par with pro work and couldn't compete. that just makes the whole thing lot kinda weak and pathetic. question for you...as a parent, you must know the other parents fairly well. how do they feel about the stuff they have seen from her? maybe a vocal response from a group of parents to the AD/coach might shake things up a bit if they are unhappy.

[namasste]

IThe game itself, and the safety of the players, is the primary factor above all else. They shouldn't be making an exception for you simply because you're a better photographer. And if they did, why shouldn't they then make exceptions for all the mom's with P&Ss? Theoretically, those moms would "need" it more than you because their equipment isn't as good. If they made an exception for you, they wouldn't be able to rationally justify not making exceptions for everybody else.

these are very good points and the player safety and ability to do their thing is paramount for sure. one must always consider however that a parent can always take shots from the stands or outside the fence. With the right gear, you can get almost as good as beig on the sidelines and if this lady wants to play hardball, then let her play but she should be prepared to deal with what follows if another pro decides to shoot from "safe range" and give away images. when her target market is the parents, being a jerk to one of them is perhaps the worst marketing strategy I have ever heard of. I'm being assumptive that if this got pushed around, it would become confrontational.

[liam5100]

Isnt a school a public place? Cant you photograph whatever you want fro the sidelines? You arent going into business against her, you want shots of your own kid. I am sure that if you don't sell the shots, they can't stop anyone from photographing a HS football game.

Sidelines? You may be out of luck.

Its not only my own child I wish to photograph, like I said in the post above, often even events he isnt involved in. But yes my point is not to shoot commercially like the event photographer with "exclusive" access.

More for my own personal portfolio and possibe submission to local high school news outlets.

And apparently they can resctrict sideline access, which I fully understand to a point.