If you sell at events, is it worth selling online too?

[FCP]

If you take orders onsite at events, is it worth your time and effort processing images and uploading them to your web site. I have found that many people email me asking me to post the photos but once I have posted them I don’t get many sales. I am sure that if I told everyone at the event they would not be posted on a web site, onsite sales would increase and I would have less work to do after the event. I could also produce a better web site then rather than an ecom site.

[Gary_Evans]

It is worth selling online as well as onsite, but not worth doing any PP to the images before putting them online.

A few of the big event photography companies (and me) have discussed this a bit more in depth and we all seem to average about £20 per month per 1000 images online. May not sound to much, but when you have hundreds of thousands of images that soon mounts up.

Some give better returns than others - I can earn a lot from my social events online, and all these images have already sold once at the event as well. Sports events vary from sport to sport, for example I getter better returns from a road race than I do from football. Equestrian onsite out sells webs sales by a huge degree.

But none of these images have received any PP before uploading, as the key is getting them online as opposed to making them look good.

The public is generally conditioned to understanding that any image bought will be tweeked before it is printed and so will accept proof versions online. If in doubt simply say that prints bought will be optimised.

Also, it soon hones your camera technique!!

[Mike R]

But none of these images have received any PP before uploading, as the key is getting them online as opposed to making them look good.

The public is generally conditioned to understanding that any image bought will be tweeked before it is printed and so will accept proof versions online. If in doubt simply say that prints bought will be optimised.

Also, it soon hones your camera technique!!

I agree, I have the following on each of my web pages:

All images will be individually cropped and edited to provide the best look for each size ordered.
The copyright notice will not be across the front of the prints.

[FCP]

Thanks again for the feedback Gary. I don't do any PP but I do delete OOF and shots with no faces. Then I create a thumbnail and a water marked larger image per photo. Then I FTP them and go through the process of producing a CSV to import the store. I suppose if I improve my workflow and document it better it may save me some time in the long run.

Do you promote the fact people can buy after the event? Does this impact your sales on the day?

[Gary_Evans]

Do you promote the fact people can buy after the event? Does this impact your sales on the day?

To be totally honest, I dont know.

The reason is because I have always offered both options, and while both ways work I will continue to do so

[FCP]

I understand the benifits of providing the option to purchase after the event but i wonder how many people walk away and say to themselves 'I will take a look online later' and they never do.

[Mike R]

Thanks again for the feedback Gary. I don't do any PP but I do delete OOF and shots with no faces. Then I create a thumbnail and a water marked larger image per photo. Then I FTP them and go through the process of producing a CSV to import the store. I suppose if I improve my workflow and document it better it may save me some time in the long run.

Do you promote the fact people can buy after the event? Does this impact your sales on the day?

Don't be too quick to delete all the shots without faces. I had submitted 3 shots to a newspaper and they chose to use the one where the player is sliding into home with the umpire behind him making the "safe" sign. You cannot see the players face, only his number. In one of the other shots, his face was visible but the umpire tells the story in this one.

I tell people that the shots will remain on line until August. In June I will post a notice on my web pages. I'm starting to get higher activity again on sports whose season has ended in Dec. I"ll have to wait to see if sales pick up on those sports. Some kids play 2 or 3 sports a year and the parents may only want to place one order.

[rsmedley]

I sell exclusively on-line and so far the sales have been pretty dismal, but then again maybe I'm expecting too much. I do sell some prints and negatives on-line but so far I wouldn't say it's really worth my time. If I can't sell at the events I'm probably just going to stick with weddings where the money is commited up front.

[Gary_Evans]

I understand the benifits of providing the option to purchase after the event but i wonder how many people walk away and say to themselves 'I will take a look online later' and they never do.

Again thats a "how long is a piece of string question"

However, my webstats tell me that lots of people are looking when a new gallery goes online. These are detailed enough to tell me how many unique visitors as opposed to the same people looking over and over again.

From experience, one off events such as an award ceremony or a black tie event will bring quicker sales than something like a kids football tournament. Virtually every event tog will tell you the same and its generally accepted that the reason is that if a child plays in say 4 tournaments that the web buying parent will compare photos from all four tournaments.

So if you are then selling - good. If not, refer to my comment about honing your technique.

[Gary_Evans]

As I indicated in a previous thread I've been doing event photography for a while now and have not been satisfied with my on-line sales. I'm guessing that selling at the event rather than after will increase sales many fold. My questions for you experienced event photogs are:

1) Do you sell both at the event and on-line?
2) If so, what is your percentage of at-event sales versus on-line (after the event)
3) If you sell at the event, do you sell prints at the event or just take orders to be fullfilled after the event

Thanks for all replies. I'm struggling with the business model and strategy here and, of course, I'm assuming my photos and videos are sellable :lol: My biggest problem is I don't have anyone to help with event sales and am trying to figure out if it would pay for me to hire someone

Copied from your other thread


1. Yes
2. 80/20
3. Yes. Only prints are produced onsite, although we display (and take orders for) other items such as mousemats, mugs etc


fwiw, the biggest sellers online are 7x5 prints (the cheapest product offered), followed by 10x7 prints. For every 20 prints ordered online there will be one of the other products.



Will you sell more by using a sales person? Yes. Period.

[kt8]

But in my understanding isnt onsite printing dearer rates than after the event? Therefore wont people wait until the day after and get more for their money?

[FCP]

Our best seller is also the 7X5. We also sell fridge magnets, keyrings, mouse mats etc. We used to print onsite but now we just take orders. It requires less staff and leaves me in full control of the QC. When printing onsite, how can you tell if your photos have an orange tint when you are viewing them in the room you shot them?

I am thinking that i may have a push on CD sales. Gary, what % of images do you sell on CD?

[Gary_Evans]

But in my understanding isnt onsite printing dearer rates than after the event? Therefore wont people wait until the day after and get more for their money?


You have missed the whole point of selling at events, which is based on people buying on impulse.

It is a totally different genre to wedding and portrait photography.

[FCP]

kt8, i charge the same at both the event and after on the web site. The difference is i offer free postage when taking orders at the event.

[Gary_Evans]

Gary, what % of images do you sell on CD?

So few that we stopped offering them!! Maybe 3 or 4 emailed JPEGs a week, but my customers seem to prefer prints. I think its a tactile thing ......

[kt8]

You have missed the whole point of selling at events, which is based on people buying on impulse.

It is a totally different genre to wedding and portrait photography.

In my area I dont think it would justify the outlay as Im sure they would wait a day or so afterwards. Then maybe I up my online prints prices to match but feel I would be hiking up too much. Shame as Id love to be able to do it, As poor as they are I think DE have a good setup out of a transit van.

btw, Who does wedding and portrait? Not me... ;)

kt8photography.co.uk

[amfoto1]

I'm sure it will vary by locale and type of event, but my best guesses after about three years shooting events (mostly equestrian) are that:

1a. Yes, at larger events we sell both onsite and online.

There are impulse/onsite buyers, and there are follow up/online buyers.

And, there's surprisingly little overlap between them. I'd have to say the rarest buyer of all is the one who is both: Who buys onsite and also later orders online.

This means we can expect to approximately double our total sales for any event, when we offer both onsite and online purchase. If we don't sell onsite, I'm sure a few of the would-be impulse buyers will remember the web address and come and buy online, but far fewer. If we didn't offer online, there would be a lot of residual sales that just wouldn't happen. Overlooking either one, I'd have to estimate we'd cut our total sales roughly in half.

1b. The real difference is that onsite sales costs us more to do. That's just a fact. You need equipment and people to make it work. These cost money up front and ongoing.

Our best single impulse/onsite sale was $400 last year. Would that person have bought as much if they'd been sitting at home looking at the images on their personal computer? I can't really say, but would guess not. They may have had time to think about other expenses, and lose their enthusiasm for the photos. Heck, they might even have lost our flier or business card and never even found the website.

For that matter, we have some customers who don't even have computers, let alone internet access!

When someone is sitting in front of you and trying to choose between this image or that image, you can easily point out that it's "Just $xx more to have both". You simply can't do upselling like this online.

There are smaller events where we just cannot justify the cost of setting up onsite. At those we do tend to sell less, overall.

What we need is a low cost, highly portable onsite selling strategy, but there is a big initial investment in that, and some nagging concerns.

But, any sort of "self-service" model also leaves out the potential for upselling, which is really critical to good sales. Plus there are issues around ease of use for the customer, and getting images loaded/accessible very rapidly in some highly automated way. There's even equipment theft or damage to think about, with unattended, self-service stations.

An interesting model I've seen work in very limited situations is just having people review images on a computer, write up (or enter, if on a computer) their own orders onsite, and then fulfilling their orders later. The main limitations here are three-fold: The photographer must be very well established, widely known and fully trusted by the clientèle. Also the photographer must be working pretty close to the viewing station(s) to make this work. For example, it works if shooting small pets at a pet show in a tent/studio setup that's right next to the display station. But it would be more difficult if you are off wandering around an arena or stadium getting shots (in which case your laptop computer might grow legs). Finally, if the photographer is busy shooting, even close by, they have little opportunity to upsell and address questions.

2. I'd estimate we see about a 50/50 sales onsite and online, at the larger events where we do both.

3. I do think the onsite, impulse buyer wants to walk away with a print, not wait a couple days for the order to be fulfilled.

As others have said, our prints done onsite are not significantly post processed. Just "quick and dirty". There isn't time for much more than that.

We do charge more for onsite prints (+$1 for 4x5 & 5x7, +$2 for 8x10) and have never had a complaint. I don't think we've ever even had anyone mention or question it, perhaps largely because people don't even realize there's a difference. When we're onsite only the onsite pricing is posted. Plus the impulse buyers and the internet customers are such distinct customer groups.

We do edit and lightly post-process images before they are posted online. I took about 700 shots at a small show recently, and whittled that down 450 shots that had been edited, leveled, color balanced, tweaked and uploaded online in about 8 hours time (it could have been less but I had some distractions and wasn't really pushing myself very hard). I use Adobe Bridge and CS2's "Image Processor" to make conversions from RAW files. Final and complete image optimization is done only after the print is ordered and we know what size we are working with.

I did recently have a nice repeat sale from something shot in 2006. There have been other sales from old shoots, another small order actually went back 5 years. So, while it can be used to create a sense of urgency, I'm not quick to take galleries down off line.

For online sales, I think good promotion of your services by the organizer (over the PA system, in their event program or premium) and links from the organizer's website are important keys to success. I work hard on relationships with organizers, after all their success and my success are synonymous!

[kt8]

Our best single impulse/onsite sale was $400 last year. Would that person have bought as much if they'd been sitting at home looking at the images on their personal computer? I can't really say, but would guess not. They may have had time to think about other expenses, and lose their enthusiasm for the photos. Heck, they might even have lost our flier or business card and never even found the website.

For that matter, we have some customers who don't even have computers, let alone internet access!

When someone is sitting in front of you and trying to choose between this image or that image, you can easily point out that it's "Just $xx more to have both". You simply can't do upselling like this online.


Thanks Alan, I agree with the above 100%, I am one of them people myself that impulse buys (and usually regrets it later) and if I have time I talk myself out of it, so I see what your saying. My point is though if I knew the leagues photographer (me) done onsite sales and was well known I would make myself aware of the prices and size charts. If his prints onsite were to be a few £ dearer on the day I wouldnt even visit the stand and wait to view at home, In comfort and pick and choose what I want at the cheaper rate.

I suppose its all horses for courses and that said, If I had the money and know how I would love to offer onsite services.

[lbecerra]

What about Websites to sell like wild, nature, crazy type of photograph and so on, not necessary weddings but maybe sports picture....Etc.

any one recommend a good Website, I know Smugmug but they charge like 150 us dollars a year; I don’t want those stuck website that sells your pics for no royalty at all.

Thanks

[Alexajlex]

What about Websites to sell like wild, nature, crazy type of photograph and so on, not necessary weddings but maybe sports picture....Etc.

any one recommend a good Website, I know Smugmug but they charge like 150 us dollars a year; I don’t want those stuck website that sells your pics for no royalty at all.

Thanks

Zenfolio,

$90 (with the coupon per year)
http://www.zenfolio.com/zf/coupon.aspx?c=FW1W6S

You can set your own prices.

[Gottria]

What printers to you guys use for onsite printing? Just wonder about setups. computers ect.?

[amfoto1]

Printroom.com specializes in event photography. $99 a year.

Regarding printers....

Ideal printer: a $2000+ dye sub unit that'll do up to 8x10. Built for speed and high volume. No wasted supplies. Reasonable cost per print, well at least it's a relatively fixed cost per print, unlike inkjet.

Very basic printer: any $99-$129 Epson, HP, Kodak, Canon inkjet with 6 colors. Slower, a lot less durable, and over time supplies aren't cheap (note: supplies for Kodak or HP *might* be a little cheaper than Epson or Canon)... but workable and cheap to buy, inexpensive to replace when it breaks, which it will.

Some things in between or in addition: A 13" printer may be productive for some times of events, if there's real potential to sell larger prints such as 11x14 or 13x19. Dye sub in that size would be horrendously expensive, so an inkjet would have to do. This would likely be in addition to a smaller printer that would account for the bulk of the work (Say 4x6, 5x7 and 8x10. Maybe 6x8 or 6x9, which some dye subs offer.)

Regarding computers...

Ideal computer: A server with several touch screen viewing stations/kiosks so that people can place orders right then and there, to be fulfilled within a few days. Should have a RAID (mirror) to immediately back up files.

Basic computer: just about any laptop with enough processing power for images, adequate disk space for short term storage of a lot of files and at least a couple gigs of RAM to run some of the imaging softwares. Just print out thumbnails as you go, for customers to look at and choose from. Burn DVDs or use an external drive to backup as you go.

Software is your biggest expense. There are some specialty softwares for event photography, to manage files on a server and display thumbnails on viewing station screens. Some support "online" ordering (actually just capturing the order, which is uploaded, processed later).

Higher end imaging softwares, such as Photoshop, Lightroom, Aperture, Phase One, etc. all require someone pretty skilled and capable to run them, which will cost you more in wages. However, print quality can be higher.

You may run into difficulty with accurate monitor calibration on site, working with unknown and changing ambient lighting situations. Ideal would be a trailer with a small workspace that's got a controlled lighting arrangement, and monitor calibration tools.

Many printers come with some sort of basic printing utility, which might be adequate for "quick and dirty" on site printing.