420EX and P Mode

[bauerman]

Whenever I have the 420EX attached to my G5 in P mode and try to shoot a normal indoor shot - it seems that the shutter speed is always defaulted to a sluggish 1/60 of a second. With shutter sync speeds with that flash available up to 1/250 of a second - why start on the slow end by default?

I know I can move to TV and put it where I want it - just curious about P mode defaults.....

[s00pcan]

P mode always selects 1/60, even with the internal flash.

[bauerman]

What is the rationale behind that? Do you know? Seems like a sluggish shutter speed, opening up your shots to blur and orange casts from too much ambient light exposure............

[jglisson73]

What is the rationale behind that? Do you know? Seems like a sluggish shutter speed, opening up your shots to blur and orange casts from too much ambient light exposure............

1/60 is the bottom threshhold for "camera shake." Anything below that speed will display the camera shake icon.

When I am in low light shooting w/ my g3 and 420ex I to to tv mode, set it at 1/60, and shoot away.

I wish the g3 did a better job with the ettl features of the 420. My next camera will definitely be a dslr...if only to take advantage of the better features of this wonderful flash.

jg

[bauerman]

Yes jg - you are right - I realize that 1/60th is the minimum that you would want to hand hold most shots - I'm just trying to get to the bottom of why the G-series cams would set this as the default for flash shots? Why wouldn't you want to set the default to a higher shutter speed and almost eliminate any chance of blur?

Doesn't anyone have the definitive answer on the 1/60th puzzle?

[paladin]

Doesn't anyone have the definitive answer on the 1/60th puzzle?

The ONLY definitive explanation is that Canon does this merely to irritate, antagonize and baffle the G series users ... :shock: :shock: :shock: :)

[bauerman]

Ah - well with that being the case - I can now rest easy!

I will foil their dastardly plan by actually LIKING the default of 1/60th in P-mode for flash shots.........bwahhhhhhahhhhh (evil laugh)....

[ScottK]

Doesn't anyone have the definitive answer on the 1/60th puzzle?

The ONLY definitive explanation is that Canon does this merely to irritate, antagonize and baffle the G series users ... :shock: :shock: :shock: :)

It works very well. :shock: :roll:

I got my 420 last week. Still learning it, but I'm definitely happy with the results. I love the fact that you can actually get a usable fill flash outdoors with the fast-synch capability. I agree the 1/60 "lock" in P mode is an odd choice, but something I guess I can get used to. I usually shoot in one of the priority modes anyway.

[Fototake]

I have a Canon 380EX flash unit and with the G6, I am able to set the flash to high speed sync and it works. No 1/60 lock. It works just the same as it does with my Elan IIE. I have found that you have to play around with these camera/flash unit combinations to find out what works for you.

[bauerman]

Fototake,

Yeah - I can get my 420EX way up there when it comes to shutter speeds in the high speed sync mode. I'm just wondering what the logic is for setting my camera in P Mode with the 420 attached and it automatically setting the aperture quite wide (2.0) and a really slow shutter speed like 1/60.......I just want to know why that is the default. It's no biggie - just curious.

[pradeep1]

Probably so you can get a smaller aperture opening and increase DOF? Wouldn't it suck if all of your photos were at f/2.0 when shutter was at 1/250 sec? Also, less battery usage at 1/60 second. Just some guesses. :confused:

[cprevost]

Why not just set the camera to tv mode and kick up the shutter speed. The flash will automatically adjust its output.

[Kusie]

Yes jg - you are right - I realize that 1/60th is the minimum that you would want to hand hold most shots - I'm just trying to get to the bottom of why the G-series cams would set this as the default for flash shots? Why wouldn't you want to set the default to a higher shutter speed and almost eliminate any chance of blur?

Doesn't anyone have the definitive answer on the 1/60th puzzle?

I´d like to have that puzzle solved, too! Same annoying 1/60 and F2.0 P mode with the G6! I had a Powershot A40 before and really liked the P mode, now with the G6 the P mode seems quite useless, the P mode was (could be) very handy when a need to take some quick shots without dealing with manual settings.

The oddest thing is that at full telezoom, STILL 1/60 seconds shutter speed and F3.0 are set, giving you a "shake warning" in the lcd display!

I checked, and there is no problem shooting at F4 or even at 5.6 with a shutter speed of 1/250 with internal flash at full force in M mode - nice pictures and no hassle with camera shake.

This is an official canon forum, right? So maybe one of the MODs may say something about this? For me this makes P mode useless for indoor shots!

Kusie

[Nabil-A]

Nice pick up Kusie,

Didnt know it until trying it. however id say that the shake warning is more to do that you are at full telephoto and at 1/60 of sec, (smaller depth of field), camera shake is more pronounced. and thus the warning

[bauerman]

Yes Nabil - but "Why?" is the question at hand here. Nobody in the forums seems to know why Canon defaults to 1/60 in P Mode with the flash activated. I would love to ask someone at Canon about this. We are not asking how to get around this - because most of us know how to get around it- just curious as to the default setting.

[Nabil-A]

Okay,

Just to put some data together, here are my findings, they correlate to all other posts.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Auto
internal flash - shutter speed is autoset to 1/60 sec (FEL)
not able to use dial to shift settings to any other aperture / shutter combination while FEL

external 420ex flash (high / normal synchro) - shutter speed is autoset to 1/60 sec (FEL not functional)

Programme
internal flash - shutter speed is autoset to 1/60 sec (FEL)
not able to use dial to shift Programme settings to any other aperture / shutter combination while FEL

external 420ex flash (high normal synchro) - shutter speed is autoset to 1/60 sec (FEL )
not able to use dial to shift settings to any other aperture / shutter combination while FEL

Aperture Priority
internal flash - shutter speed is set up to 1/250 sec depending on aperture chosen (FEL)
not able to use dial to shift settings to any other aperture / shutter combination while FEL

external 420ex flash (high normal synchro) - shutter speed is autoset depending on aperture selection (FEL) up to 1/2000sec
not able to use dial to shift Programme settings to any other aperture / shutter combination while FEL

Shutter Priority
internal flash - shutter speed is set up to 1/250 sec depending on shutter selection (FEL)
not able to use dial to shift settings to any other aperture / shutter combination while FEL

external 420ex flash (high / normal synchro) - shutter speed is autoset to depending on shutter speed slelection (FEL) up to 1/2000 sec
not able to use dial to shift Programme settings to any other aperture / shutter combination

Manual
internal flash - shutter speed is set up to 1/250 sec depending on shutter selection (FEL not functional)
not able to use dial to shift settings to any other aperture / shutter combination while FEL

external 420ex flash (high / normal synchro) - shutter speed is autoset to depending on shutter speed selection (FEL not functional) up to 1/2000 sec
not able to use dial to shift Programme settings to any other aperture / shutter combination
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This brings to mind / suggestions two things,

Why isnt it possible to have the flash exposure lock (FEL) settings adjusted once FEL is performed on a photo composition, with the flash output adjusted (if indeed necessary - as exposure does not change) in accordance with aperture and shutter combination changes.

Also, why isnt FEL available on auto with external 420ex while available with the use of the intneral flash. (not that i use auto, but just a technicality)

And the same old problem of why programme sets to 1/60 of a sec and not take advantage of flash synchro speeds of up to 1/250sec with internal flash and up to 1/2000 sec with external flash

IF some of my findings dont correspond to your experience, let me know,

[bauerman]

Nabil - thats a lot of great data - It's crazy to me that my orignal question on this thread still stands - why the default of 1/60 for flash shots in P mode? Someone call Canon and ask them!! Hurry!

[newhouse230]

I think that shooting at 1/60 with flash rarely presents a problem as it is the far shorter duration of the flash itself that creates the image exposure. That being said, the default to 1/60 often produces a better lighted , more natural background than if a fast shutter speed were used.
Just my take on it.

[IainB]

For what it's worth, the G1, in P mode, with the 420ex flash doesn't default to 1/60. Here's an example: Good point from newhouse, though. With flash, even at 1/60 shutter speed, movement can be frozen as the flash is firing at up to 1/50000.
IainB
0009.CRW
Camera Model Name
Canon PowerShot G1
Shooting Date/Time
17/11/2004 8:50:14 a.m.
Shooting Mode
Program AE
Tv( Shutter Speed )
1/250
Av( Aperture Value )
4.0
Metering Mode
Center-weighted averaging
Exposure Compensation
-2/3
ISO Speed
50
Lens
7.0 - 21.0mm
Focal Length
10.8mm
Digital Zoom
None
Image Size
2048x1536
Image Quality
RAW
Flash
On
Flash Type
External E-TTL
Flash Exposure Compensation
-2/3

[Nabil-A]

Despite wrestling with my G6, in programme mode i get nothing but 1/60 of a second when shooting indoor photos

[exfilmcat]

dumb question but i just received my 420 ex this morning and having just started with the manual I see reference to type A and type B cameras. I have a pro 1 and don't see any reference to it. Does anyone know if the A or B apply to my camera? Really appreciate your knowledge on this.
Thanks

[exfilmcat]

Just received my new 420 ex this morning and while reading through the manual it says there are two types of camera's for it, the type A and Type B but I don't see anything relative to my powershot pro 1. Does anyone know if its an A or B? Appreciate any response, thanks.

[Nabil-A]

Your camera would fall into the Type A category. The only thing that wont work in the type a instructions is the AF assist beam (page 16) modelling flash (page 30).

Pages 31 - 38 are for ttl, both the g6 and pro1 are ettl compatible so pages 39 onwards are applicable also.