calibrating a Dell 2408WFP with the Spyder3 Pro

[Kent Clark]

I've had the monitor for about 3 weeks and the Spyder for about 1. I spent several days trying different combinations of settings before getting a calibration that looked good to me. I thought I would share what I discovered for anyone else with this set of equipment.

First, you have to use the RGB sliders option. Without that I consistently got pinkish screen tones.

Second, setting the brightness and contrast gave me a more comfortable screen. I ended up using a contrast of 90 and a brightness of 5. Some may think that brightness sounds drastic but this monitor is very bright. At the factory setting of 50 the Spyder measures a luminence of 320 cd/m2. At 15 brightness I got 220 cd/m2 and at 5 I got 170 cd/m2. I've read that even that is considered too bright but setting it at zero gave dull colors to my eyes.

Third, even after setting the white balance to 6500k I was still getting pinkish tinged grays. These were especially noticeable in windows and Word menu boxes. After lots of experimenting I found that once you have set the RGB sliders to get 6500k you have to look at the Visual Guide box in the Spyder. It's a series of black to gray to white boxes. Even at 6500k you might see pinkish grays. Just select the Red slider and decrease it until the guide box grays look gray and not pink toned. You may think this will throw off the white balance but I found that the R slider is very insensitive. I was at a difference measurement of .02 and a white balance of 6520k but grays were pink. I changed the R slider from 100 to 88 and the difference only changed to .03 and white balance to 6525k.

I now have a good looking screen that doesn't sear my eyeballs with intensity and shows great colors, not too saturated, not too dull.

[Damo77]

Kent, thanks for your post. I haven't used a Spyder, nor your monitor, but I'm always keen to learn more.

I believe you when you say that the factory settings is 320cd/m2 - most LCD monitors are like that, in fact the manufacturers boast about it! It might be good for gamers, but it's rubbish for imaging. Once your eyes adjust, you'll probably find that 170 is still too high!

The reason I'm bumping your post is that I'm keen to hear from other Dell monitor owners about this "pinkish" business - namely, have you done the right thing by dabbling with the red slider.

In my (not particularly vast) experience calibrating LCD monitors, the casty grays appear when you attempt to calibrate to a non-native white point. Leave the white at "Native", and the problem disappears.

But I've only observed this on fairly cheap LCD monitors - and I assume your monitor is a cut above those.

I know there's lots of Dell 2408 owners out there - can anybody satiate my curiosity?

[col4bin]

I have the spyder 3 elite had a problem with a red cast when calibrating my apple cinema display. the ACD does not have RGB sliders. I contacted technical support and fixing the problem was as easy as unplugging all USB and FW peripherals before calibrating. I now have a beautiful looking display.

[orisky]

I contacted technical support and fixing the problem was as easy as unplugging all USB and FW peripherals before calibrating. I now have a beautiful looking display.

how bizarre is that? Did they explain why?

[Kent Clark]

Damo, could you explain what you mean by native white point? I'm still new at this calibration thing but I don't see anything in the Dell menus or the Spyder software that talks about native white point.

The Dell has preset points: monitor, sRGB, custom RGB, Warm, Cool, Multimedia. Would the monitor preset be native? If so, I've tried calibrating with all of the presets. Here is the process with the spyder:

1. you adjust contrast so that a series of light gray boxes just shows a difference between the last two boxes, or you can skip this step. The software cautions that doing this may actually produce poorer results.

2. you adjust brightness so that a series of dark gray boxes just shows a difference between the last two boxes, or you can skip this step. The software gives you the same warning as in step 1.

3. the software asks you if you want to use the rgb sliders or not. It cautions you that using them may produce poorer results but everytime I uncheck this option I get very pinkish toned colors.

4. after choosing to use the sliders you put the spyder on the screen and it measures blue, green, red, white and black. It then displays 3 bars for red, blue and green and a target region shows as a rectangle across the three bars. It also displays luminence, color temperature, several other values and a difference value. The software instructs you to adjust red, blue and green until the difference value is less than .5.

5. to adjust the rgb you have to go into the Dell presets and select custom RGB, then adjust the sliders, remeasure, adjust, until you have a difference value of less than .5.

So whatever preset mode you started out with, in order to fine tune the color temperature you always end up in the custom rgb preset mode. If I'm misusing this in some way I'd appreciate the help.

And you're right, the 170 cd/m2 is too bright. Right now I'm experimenting with using the NVIDIA controls to reduce brightness instead of the monitor controls.

Col4bin, did you just unplug external USB and Firewire? The 2408 has built in USB and card reader ports, my HP printer/scanner/fax is USB and also has built in card reader, I also have firewire, USB and cardreader installed in the computer case and connected to internal ports on the motherboard. Would I have to disconnect all of those devices?

[Damo77]

Damo, could you explain what you mean by native white point? The Dell has preset points: monitor, sRGB, custom RGB, Warm, Cool, Multimedia. Would the monitor preset be native?

That would be my guess, but I'm not familiar with Dells.

Here is the process with the spyder:

1. you adjust contrast so that a series of light gray boxes just shows a difference between the last two boxes, or you can skip this step. The software cautions that doing this may actually produce poorer results.

2. you adjust brightness so that a series of dark gray boxes just shows a difference between the last two boxes, or you can skip this step. The software gives you the same warning as in step 1.

3. the software asks you if you want to use the rgb sliders or not. It cautions you that using them may produce poorer results but everytime I uncheck this option I get very pinkish toned colors.

4. after choosing to use the sliders you put the spyder on the screen and it measures blue, green, red, white and black. It then displays 3 bars for red, blue and green and a target region shows as a rectangle across the three bars. It also displays luminence, color temperature, several other values and a difference value. The software instructs you to adjust red, blue and green until the difference value is less than .5.

5. to adjust the rgb you have to go into the Dell presets and select custom RGB, then adjust the sliders, remeasure, adjust, until you have a difference value of less than .5.

Thanks for the explanation. If nothing else, it makes me glad I've got a GretagMacbeth. I don't have any wisdom for you, I'm afraid.

C'mon everyone, let's pitch in and help Kent here. I'm sure somebody must have some advice!

And you're right, the 170 cd/m2 is too bright. Right now I'm experimenting with using the NVIDIA controls to reduce brightness instead of the monitor controls.

Hmmm ... there may be a problem here. I've read that it's a good idea to disable the graphics card controls before calibrating with a device. I might be mistaken, though.

[Kent Clark]

I read a pretty intense review of the 2408 where the author said if he dropped the monitor brightness too low he got banding but if he put the monitor at 100 and then adjusted with the video card he got no banding and good results.

Like I said in the first post, if I drop brightness to zero the colors look very muted and the Spyder still measures the luminence as about 150 cd/m2. So as far as I can see there is not really another option to lower the brightness.

Thanks for the help.

[Kent Clark]

If any Dell/Spyder users are looking at this thread, I found the native setpoint that Damo talked about.

In the Spyder software you can choose various gamma and color temp values. For gamma 2.2 you can choose 6500k, 5500k, etc and you can choose NATIVE. I haven't played around with it enough yet to know if that solves the pink problem.

I didn't see the native setting before because the Spyder software assumes some choices when you recalibrate so it doesn't show you every choice everytime. You get to a screen that says something like "accept these values" or "edit these values", the values being gamma, color temp among others. If you choose edit you can get a drop down box that shows the various gamma and color temp values.

I saw that box the first time I set up my monitor calibration but I was too new to even notice the native option. Since then the software always assumed a 6500k temp since that is what I chose the first time.

[LuckyRobJ]

So as far as I can see there is not really another option to lower the brightness.
I reduced my RGB settings to about 60 for each, which allows me to keep brightness around 70 on my Dell 2407FPW. This got me my desired brightness (anywhere from 100 to 140cd/m^2) and an extremely linear calibration result. Didn't notice any banding either.

[bunyarra]

I also bought the 2408 but only had the older Spyder2 unit to calibrate it with - absoutely no joy at all. Someone mentioned this was due to it being a Wide Gamut monitor and on the the Syder3 would work. Not sure if this was true but it never managed to get Vista looking decent yet alone Photoshop.

So .. stumped up for the Color Munki instead - and now have a perfect screen, no tints. A side benefit is a printer profile that beats anything I have managed to produce before for my i9950 with Kyson inks.

[Kent Clark]

Rob, thanks for that tip. I'll give it a go tonight. My wife thinks I'm slightly crazy hanging this thingy on our monitor night after night but if nothing else I've come to understand monitor calibration a lot better.

Michael, I've read the same thing, that the Spyder2 does not work well with the 2408. After several weeks of playing around I'm coming to the conclusion that the Spyder3 does work, but it's not the best calibration solution for this monitor.

And I've not had a very good customer service experience with DataColor, the Spyder manufacturer. I emailed them specifically about the luminance situation. I got back a very short email that in one sentence said, disable everything and recalibrate.

I did that, thinking that this would address the too bright luminance situation I had inquired about. It gave the exact results I had experienced before, results that I had specifically explained in my original email were way too bright. I replied , explaining the situation. I got back another 1 sentence email, so terse it seemed like the author was using her Blackberry during rush hour commute. It said, "we find best results are obtained with all settings off."

By now I was really puzzled and a little irritated. Puzzled because the Spyder software spends 3-4 screens having the user check off the features in their monitor and explaining how to optimize those settings yet DataColor tells me to ignore their own software. Irritated because neither email directly addressed my original inquiry, which was, "how can I best set luminance targets with the Spyder3 Pro?"

I calmly and respectfully, I think, replied that I was a little puzzled and frustrated, outlining what I said above. I also said that after spending $160 on one of their products I turned to them to help me understand how to better use their product but had received little new information, only simplistic instructions that didn't really address the original question.

I haven't heard anything from them since.

[bunyarra]

Interesting about the Native setting. With that enabled, the Color Munki s/w will not register a perfect contract and brightness setting no matter how I tweak the 2408. Set to 6500k, I can get both "perfect" according to the s/w.

One interesting side effect of the new profile is that, while both Vista and Photoshop are great - the in-built Vista image viewer is just dreadful - looks like gamma used is completely wrong. It is most odd.

Can recommend this Munki hardware - very good indeed. S/w has a few bugs under Vista but nothing that stops good profiling.

[Az2Africa]

I must admit that Datacolor comes with virtually no instructions in the package other than: Open box. Install CD. Calibrate monitor. I have done well with my Spyder2Pro and now the Spyder3, but I am still going to send them a message regarding the need for more specific instructions and better technical support. Maybe if enough people point it out thay will respond better.

[orisky]

I reduced my RGB settings to about 60 for each, which allows me to keep brightness around 70 on my Dell 2407FPW. This got me my desired brightness (anywhere from 100 to 140cd/m^2) and an extremely linear calibration result. Didn't notice any banding either.

How are you guys changing RGB settings on your Dell? I have a 3007wfp-hc and can't find the adjustments anywhere. I heard they're only available if you're running a dell pc as well. True?

[LuckyRobJ]

RGB settings are via the on-screen display that's built into the monitor--doesn't matter what computer you're using.

I'm assuming your 3007's menu is the same as mine... in the color settings menu, set the Color Adjustment to 'PC Custom Color'. This will show the RGB bars that you can adjust.

[orisky]

RGB settings are via the on-screen display that's built into the monitor--doesn't matter what computer you're using.

I'm assuming your 3007's menu is the same as mine... in the color settings menu, set the Color Adjustment to 'PC Custom Color'. This will show the RGB bars that you can adjust.

Do you have a 3007WFP or a 3007WFP-HC? I don't have any color settings menu. I have (-) (+) and (power) buttons on the monitor.

[LuckyRobJ]

I actually have the 2407FPW (mentioned in my first response) :). There is a separate menu button on my monitor.

If you press the +/- does anything happen (brightness change, or menu appear)? On my monitor, pressing the +/- buttons does nothing without first entering the on-screen display menu.

[orisky]

the + and - just change brightness. Doesn't open any menus.

[neg8]

I received an A00 of the 2408WFP last week - gave me a headache to look (way too bright) at so went straight to store to buy a Spyder 3 Pro.

When bringing the brightness and RGB controls down to 120 Cd during calibration, mid tone colours became well balanced, but the biggest negative for me is that all contrast seems lost in darker tones. Moving head to view from side angle reveals the detail in the darks otherwise lost looking straight on. A known issue with S-PVA I guess (still didn't expect it to be this bad) but I'd suffice for a dark monitor capable of a quarter of the brightness of the dell for better contrast into the darks.

When increasing brightness to 170 I get a little more contrast in dark tones, but still it seems very quite lacking and so is a bit of a concern unfortunately.

Obviously running to thing at factory settings gives poor colour but contrast into the darks.

[Kent Clark]

neg8, I'm facing the same brightness issues as you with this monitor. One thing that I haven't been able to try yet is what LuckyRobJ on page 1 of this thread and the reviewer at anandtech.com did. They went to the rgb sliders and reduced them, then calibrated without readjusting the sliders. RobJ reduced the levels to 60, the anandtech reviewer reduced them first to 80 and then to 55. This method reduces brightness but appears to preserve more dark details.

I'm going to try this in the next few days. You can read the review of the Dell and several other 24" monitors here (http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=3302).

[beepclick]

Subscribing.

[neg8]

Yes this suggested helped a little. On this image:

http://tomyeah.com/images/Monitor%20calibration%20chart.jpg

Before I had levels around 70, I could only just discern 92%.

Now with levels around 55 I can well see 92% and just make out 94%.

I noticed a funny thing - when you take the levels down to 50 or so, increasing brightness above 60-70 makes no difference - it maxes out as far as luminance goes. Definitely dependence between them.

[René Damkot]

I can "just make out" 2% and 98% on my old PB calibrated with a monaco Optix...
(That is if I'm straight in front of that part of the bar; slight move to the right, and it's gone)

I'm curious what other people can see. I'd expect that on a calibrated screen you'd be able to see 4% and 96% *at least*.

Edit: Note that I'm browsing using Safari, and the above image is *AdobeRGB*. (Silly). That could make quite a difference.

[Budley007]

I'm curious as to why you would futz with the RGB settings during calibration? It was my understanding that on LCDs you simply let the profile software adjust them for your calibration parameters, (ie. 2.2, D65). Won't the final profile adjust with or against these settings regardless if you leave them at factory default or follow the software recommendations? I mean D65 and D50 are industry standards aren't they? Is this adjustment necessary for particularly bad monitors that need some help to get to what the profile wants since it can't get there on it's own? I'm confused.

EDIT: I've just ordered one of these monitors, BTW....specs look great.

[Kent Clark]

Budley, during initial monitor setup with the Spyder3 Pro you choose a gamma and color temperature from a list. Then you go into the calibration procedure.

The software asks if your monitor has brightness and contrast adjustment. If yes you are given the option to adjust both manually to optimize gray scale values.

The software asks if your monitor has RGB adjustment. If yes you are given the option to optimize the color temp you selected in setup. The Spyder reads RGB values and the user adjusts those values until color temp equals the setup temp. The software then finishes the calibration.

But the Spyder manufacturer told me that they recommend doing neither of the above manual steps with an LCD monitor. They recommend the user simply reset to factory defaults and do the calibration without adjusting the brightness, contrast and RGB.

That would be fine except that the Spyder Pro does not adjust luminance, nor does it allow the user to set a luminance target. So, after following Spyder's recommendations the owner of a Dell 2408 ends up with a blindingly bright screen on the order of 350 cd/m2 since the Dell is very bright at factory default settings.

How do you reduce that luminance down to a more comfortable value? One way is to reduce brightness, but even after reducing it to zero the luminance is still around 150 cd/m2, which most people find too bright for photo work.

Another apparently more successful way to reduce luminance is to reset to factory defaults, then adjust the RGB sliders from 100 down to 55/60, then do the calibration according to Spyder's recommendation, ie without manually adjusting brightness/contrast or RGB during the calibration.

[neg8]

Perhaps someone could post the spyder3 elite software to BT or rapidshare so we can comapre? ;-)

[Budley007]

Another apparently more successful way to reduce luminance is to reset to factory defaults, then adjust the RGB sliders from 100 down to 55/60, then do the calibration according to Spyder's recommendation, ie without manually adjusting brightness/contrast or RGB during the calibration.

Ahhh, now this makes sense, Kent. I was told a long time ago not to use the RGB settings during calibration for LCD panels, but I can see where this would help.

[LuckyRobJ]

Kent, have you been able to try the RGB reduction trick yet? Just curious as to other people's results.

On Neg8's test chart, I can just barely make out the 98% black or 2% white. If I had not known those squares were actually there, I probably wouldn't have been able to see them.

[Kent Clark]

Rob, I finally spent a few hours over the weekend trying the RGB method. I didn't see a dramatic change from when I adjusted brightness instead of RGB. I'm still losing shadow details. In fact, the Spyder3 Pro SpyderProof page that you get at the end of the calibration clearly shows that loss everytime. That is the page that has the photos and the before/after calibration effect.

With every calibration I've done when I click on the B&W photos and do the before/after comparison the before calibration shows more detail in the shadows. The color is always better after calibration but I consistently lose details in the shadows.

I'm not sure where to go from here. Is it the monitor? Is it the calibrator?

[LuckyRobJ]

Can you post a sample image that shows shadow details that you seem to be losing? I'll take a look using my setup and see if I get the same thing. I do find my calibrated display darker than what I was used to, but I think this is just what having a luminance of 120-140 results in.

Also, I think if you have bright lights around you, your eyes have a hard time adjusting to the darks on the monitor.

[blonde]

i have been using the 2408WFP-HC for the past 2 months or so along side my old 2007FPW and all i can say is that no matter how hard i try, i can't match the 2408 to my old 2007FPW. i don't know if it is the panel or now but all i know is that even after spending 5 hours with my spyder3, i still couldn't get it to look as good as the 2007FPW.

so now i am forced to edit the images on my 2007FPW and simply using the 2408 for web, games and tools in PS. i think that i will probably end up selling the 2408FPW and simply picking up a second 2007FPW so i can have 2 matching screens..

[Kent Clark]

Rob, good point about the ambient light. I'll try and get a picture tonight.

[stillresonance]

I just bought a 2408 the other day and have been going through a couple different attempts at calibrating it.

I'm using a Gretag MacBeth i1 display 2, and the first time going around and trying to use the RGB sliders to set the white balance resulted in very pinkish screen colors and reds that were completely over powering. So I tried setting the RGB controls all to 70 and then using the "native" option in i1 match and it does make a nicer looking display.

But I am starting to wonder if maybe the calibration puck is not working correctly because when I was setting the contrast it would immediately show that it was good if I had it at 100% then it would show that it was low if I backed it off at all. But if I left the contrast at 50% and then clicked start it would also show that it was good.

What prompted me to buy a new monitor was that even though I did want a larger screen, I found I could not get a good calibration on my old monitor at all, so I am thinking the calibrator is not measuring correctly anymore. Is anyone else using an i1 with the 2408wfp? What have you ended up setting your contrast at?

I have a print screen from the summary page of the calibration

[FlexiPack]

I've never heard of Color Munki until I read this thread. I'm curious how many have used it and is it on a par with the Eye One Display2 - which is what i'm planning to buy!

[tepidt]

I'm having exactly the same issue Kent Clark is having. The colors look pretty accurate, with luminance about to burn my eyes out but I still lose detail in the shadows. Here is an example:

The before picture has inaccurate colors but the details are clearly visible. The after picture has better contrast but lose detail in the shadows.


Any suggestions as to how to fix this issue?

[René Damkot]

The after picture has better contrast but lose detail in the shadows.

I don't know the image, but how do you know the detail is *supposed to be* as visible as it is in the "before" screen?
Shadow transitions look (more) natural in the after image I think. (Then again: hard to say from a screenshot without an embedded profile)

How does a "known" gray scale look?
(for instance the one on the bottom of Dpreview (http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos450d/))

[tepidt]

Rene,

Since I'm able to see the details in either the whites or blacks, per the Dpreview link above, I'm unable to differentiate between A,B,C,D (whites on the left) and Y,Z (blacks on the right). They are just one big blob of whites or blacks.

Anyone have any idea as to how to calibrate the monitor to be able to see all of the grayscale image?

[Sydor25]

I'm having exactly the same issue Kent Clark is having. The colors look pretty accurate, with luminance about to burn my eyes out but I still lose detail in the shadows. Here is an example:

The before picture has inaccurate colors but the details are clearly visible. The after picture has better contrast but lose detail in the shadows.


Any suggestions as to how to fix this issue?


When you print the image, which monitor setting is more accurate? Does the print have the "missing" shadow details?

[Bobster]

shadows in the 2nd look good to me

[René Damkot]

Rene,

Since I'm able to see the details in either the whites or blacks, per the Dpreview link above, I'm unable to differentiate between A,B,C,D (whites on the left) and Y,Z (blacks on the right). They are just one big blob of whites or blacks.

Anyone have any idea as to how to calibrate the monitor to be able to see all of the grayscale image?

That's not good....
Sorry, but I have no help. You could maybe try a different calibrator to see which is the problem: Screen or puck?

But I am starting to wonder if maybe the calibration puck is not working correctly because when I was setting the contrast it would immediately show that it was good if I had it at 100% then it would show that it was low if I backed it off at all. But if I left the contrast at 50% and then clicked start it would also show that it was good.

What prompted me to buy a new monitor was that even though I did want a larger screen, I found I could not get a good calibration on my old monitor at all, so I am thinking the calibrator is not measuring correctly anymore. Is anyone else using an i1 with the 2408wfp? What have you ended up setting your contrast at?

From here (http://www.imagescience.com.au/ColourControl/colourProducts/gmUsingEyeOneDisplay.html): "This will vary depending on whether you have a typical LCD (which has only one true physical control - brightness - although many cheaper models pretend they have 'contrast' and 'colour' controls, unless you know your display supports true hardware adjustments, you should avoid these controls".

"The screen will flash and the system will locate the Eye One. Generally you shouldn’t have to do anything, the contrast should be fine, "

So, set contrast to 100%
Also; don't mess with the R, G and B settings.

Also on that link: "(If you have trouble calibrating an LCD, and get an overall colour cast, try the laptop mode even if you don’t have a laptop)"

[tepidt]

When you print the image, which monitor setting is more accurate? Does the print have the "missing" shadow details?

I've tried printing yesterday and my prints do look more like the "before picture" with a bit more details in the shadows. To make the print as accurate as possible I went to a printing lab to have them do it just in case my printer is off too.

[neg8]

I've posted this issue here:

http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_monitor&thread.id=91242

and I'm not sure what else to do but to try for a refund. My opinion is that this monitor has very poor contrast linearity at standard working brightness levels (worse than my 6 year old 17" panel), artificially compressing darks, thus making it rubbish for photography (which needs to deal with photos at ALL levels of exposure).

It's a pity the fanboy reviewers never looked into this so we would be warned - having great colour calibration at mid-high RGB is only half the story imo.

[neg8]

much the same issue with loss of shadow details - although the author puts it down to the panel type (VA). I'm not fully convinced by the reasoning though.

http://monitortest.blogspot.com/

[Kent Clark]

neg8, I agree the 2408 has some problems but I'm keeping it because I think it's the best 24" monitor for the price, I paid $599 during a Dell rebate. To go up to the NEC 24" you're doubling the price, going to an Eizo you're tripling the price.

The only other monitor in this price range that I considered was the Doublesight 24" that has the IPS panel. But there are few reviews and I didn't want to chance it when I had already seen the Dell at work and the price was right for me.

I hope you're successful getting it returned.

[MikeT]

I have one of these monitors and a spyder3pro on order. Even with the few problems listed it will be alot better than my current HP pavilion f1703 :D I ordered the 2408WFP online a didn't actually see a real one untill yesterday. I'm going to have to reorganize my whole desk to fit the 2408, my 17" MBP, and Canon 9500 printer. That monitor is freaking huge!!!

[rickywck]

I have bought 2408WFP and used it as the external monitor of my MacBook Pro. I've tried to calibrate the 2408WFP with Spyder2Pro but no matter how I tweak the settings (such as reducing the RGB values as well as the brightness), I still cannot get the same color from 2408WFP as my MacBook Pro in Lightroom or PS CS3. For some images, the difference can be quite big, e.g.there is a image I took in night, afterI tuned the WB to get very good looking skin tone in my MacBook Pro screen, it looks yellowish and quite bright in 2408WFP.

Setting aside the the brightness issue, at least I want the monitor to have accurate color. Would getting the Spyder3Pro and recalibrate could help ?

[René Damkot]

For some images, the difference can be quite big

You are saying the difference is different for different images?

I think something else may be going on then. Otherwise, the difference should be constant between images I think... (since both screens are calibrated (although one may be off) and both systems are color managed.)

If one screen were simply too bright and yellow, it would be so for any image I think...

[bunyarra]

I have bought 2408WFP and used it as the external monitor of my MacBook Pro. I've tried to calibrate the 2408WFP with Spyder2Pro but no matter how I tweak the settings (such as reducing the RGB values as well as the brightness), I still cannot get the same color from 2408WFP as my MacBook Pro in Lightroom or PS CS3. ?

The Spyder2Pro cannot calibrate the Wide Gamut Dell. Acknowledged by ColorVision. You could have upgraded the unit to the new Spyder3 earlier this year for a meagre discount. I was also caught out by a calibration tool that was sufficiently damaged so as not to be compatible with newer LCDs (I upgraded to the Dell 2 months after buying the SP2 unit).

Colour on the Dell is good now I have got a Color Munki and matches the printer (also calibrated with the Munki) very well.

[MikeT]

The Spyder2Pro cannot calibrate the Wide Gamut Dell. Acknowledged by ColorVision. You could have upgraded the unit to the new Spyder3 earlier this year for a meagre discount. I was also caught out by a calibration tool that was sufficiently damaged so as not to be compatible with newer LCDs (I upgraded to the Dell 2 months after buying the SP2 unit).

Colour on the Dell is good now I have got a Color Munki and matches the printer (also calibrated with the Munki) very well.

How are your shadows. I have calibrated mine with Spyder3 and like the others I find that I am losing alot of details in the shadows. The overall picture is darker. Still trying to find a sweet spot to calibrate this monitor at.

[bunyarra]

How are your shadows. I have calibrated mine with Spyder3 and like the others I find that I am losing alot of details in the shadows. The overall picture is darker. Still trying to find a sweet spot to calibrate this monitor at.

The Dell, when looked at from the front, has an inherent issue with shadows. If you move your head to the side, the details reappears. I have not not heard of anyone being able to recover the very dark shadows with any calibration - it is a pain :evil:

[rickywck]

The Spyder2Pro cannot calibrate the Wide Gamut Dell. Acknowledged by ColorVision. You could have upgraded the unit to the new Spyder3 earlier this year for a meagre discount. I was also caught out by a calibration tool that was sufficiently damaged so as not to be compatible with newer LCDs (I upgraded to the Dell 2 months after buying the SP2 unit).

Colour on the Dell is good now I have got a Color Munki and matches the printer (also calibrated with the Munki) very well.

May I know what settings are you using now ?

I've bought the Spyder3 end-up. I have different settings and I'm not sure whether it really give significantly better result than the Spyder2.

So far, I found that if we really want to match the screen of 2408WFP with the screen of MBP, I should set the DELL to sRGB and calibrate it with Spyder. sRGB looks very plain but after calibration, color is ok for all those color manged app. If I set the DELL to custom RGB (I've reduced the value to 80), I can still see some difference on color no matter how I calibrate both monitors (I've even tried to "match" two monitors with the feature in Spyder3).

[MikeT]

The Dell, when looked at from the front, has an inherent issue with shadows. If you move your head to the side, the details reappears. I have not not heard of anyone being able to recover the very dark shadows with any calibration - it is a pain :evil:

So you have a shadow issue even with the Colormunki? According to what you said the only way that I can get past this is by viewing my picture from the side? So are you saying I should view it from a 45~ (degree angle), or am I misunderstanding you? If I read you right, I can adjust my screen by a certain angle so that when I view it I get a correct image? Do you have a guess at the approx. angle at which you can get a correct picture.

Sorry I am at work and cannot test it out atm.

[amorrison]

Those of you using the Colormunki, do you find that the end to end type solution gives you any better prints? Does the Colormunki adjust contrast and brightness, or just color balance? I have the 2408 dell also and my Pantone Huey worked fine for my CRT, but not for the 2408. I will have to upgrade to some other color management device. Was just wondering if the end to end control that Colormunki provides also adjusts brightness and contrast so prints would more closely match the screen in those areas too.

[bunyarra]

So you have a shadow issue even with the Colormunki? According to what you said the only way that I can get past this is by viewing my picture from the side? So are you saying I should view it from a 45~ (degree angle), or am I misunderstanding you? If I read you right, I can adjust my screen by a certain angle so that when I view it I get a correct image? Do you have a guess at the approx. angle at which you can get a correct picture.

Sorry I am at work and cannot test it out atm.

As I understand it (and someone please correct me), this is an issue with the VA panel it uses. All manufacturers offering LCD screens with this type of panel will suffer from loss of shadow details when viewed straight on. No way to calibrate round it - none. Moving your head to the side a bit reveals details and is worth doing before finally saving an edited file.

The upside is that the Dell has one of the best contrast ratios of the current affordable 24" monitors and, once calibrated, offers exceptional colour accuracy.

I had to set up a custom RGB setting of 62/61/62 and then calibrate after in order to get the contrast/brightness right. The sRGB mode was totally unusable for me ; no idea why Dell offered such a useless feature. If anyone has managed to set up the unit in sRGB mode and make it functional under both XP/Vista and Photoshop etc. please do tell me how.

With regard to prints, I am not a fine art person and can only say that I have been happy with the accuracy of the canon i9950 vs Dell 2405. And I use non-OEM inks (the Kyson CiS system) just to complicate matters further :)

[Bob_McBob]

I recently purchased a 2408WFP in a Dell Days sale, and I'm also having colour calibration problems. I decided to buy this LCD because my laptop's screen is absolutely useless for photo editing. Uncalibrated, colours are dull and ugly, and calibrated, they're garish. However, the main issue that drove me to this is that the blue channel is far enough out of spec that my calibration software generates profiles that make pure blue (0,0,255) look purple. This drove me nuts over the Winter, having all my snow photos come out purple in Photoshop. I just gave up on a calibrated workflow and disabled colour management. I've since noticed this issue on pretty much all 6 bit TN panel LCDs.

I was really excited to see lots of reviews of the 2408WFP that show its wide colour gamut easily encompassing the sRGB standard. No more purple blues! Unfortunately, I've been unable to get my calibration software to generate a profile that covers the blues properly. Pure blue is BLUER than my laptop, but still very obviously purple. I'm using Firefox 3 with colour management enabled, and it's pretty obvious that blue text is somewhat purple. If I compare the profile with sRGB, some of the sRGB standard (blues) falls outside what the monitor can show.

I've tried various combinations of settings, but nothing gets me a nice profile that encompasses sRGB and gives pure blues in colour managed software. I have also noticed the lack of shadow detail noted in this thread, but I think I can live with it. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do about this blue/purple issue? Can I see anyone else's profile examples?

I am using an original Eye One Display with the latest Eye One Match software.

http://sig.fortepianos.com/monitorprofile.jpg

[René Damkot]

Long thread here (http://photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00KIfk).

[Bob_McBob]

Long thread here (http://photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00KIfk).

I wasn't asking about profiling a laptop LCD. I gave up on that a long time ago.

[Bob_McBob]

In this comparison from a review, the sRGB plot clearly falls within the range of colours the monitor can display:

http://sig.fortepianos.com/dell2.jpg

When you make the same comparison with my monitor profile, sRGB falls outside what it can display, like Adobe RGB in the previous comparison:

http://sig.fortepianos.com/dell1.jpg

[stillresonance]

I'm using and i1 display 2 to calibrate and get a pretty accurate calibration. In the results screen it shows a very straight plot. As suggested by other posters I did have to tweak the RGB settings to get the extreme brightness under control. I'm using the custom RGB mode and I set Red 62, Green 60, and Blue 62. Then profiled using "native" for the color temp. My prints match pretty much spot on so far.

What settings on the monitor are you using before starting the calibration?

[dragosbrd]

I tried to calibrate my monitor with spyder2. I don't know what i did wrong but in lightroom or Photohop the colors look kind of purple. I downloaded a color profile created with spyder 3 and the same result. I have vista x64 and 9600Gt grafic card.
First image with no calibration(no color profile in color management)
Second after using spyder2
http://www.diginews.ro/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=8805

[René Damkot]

What monitor? Laptop per chance?

Looks like the old "Blue turns Purple" (http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index.html?MunsellCalcHelp.html#BluePurple) problem...

Another "Blue turns Purple (http://photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00KIfk)" thread.

Short version: The gamut of the screen is too small, and blues out of gamut get clipped to purple.

[bohdank]

towards the blue end is where many devices don't have a wide enough gamut.

[dragosbrd]

i have a dell 2408 :) i used a spyder 2 express
And i read all that stuff. I think the color profile is loaded 2 times! I will try to calibrate the monitor and then delete all the data from color management tab in win because spyder has it's own program to load color profiles!

[bunyarra]

I tried to calibrate my monitor with spyder2. I don't know what i did wrong but in lightroom or Photohop the colors look kind of purple. I downloaded a color profile created with spyder 3 and the same result. I have vista x64 and 9600Gt grafic card.
First image with no calibration(no color profile in color management)
Second after using spyder2
http://www.diginews.ro/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=8805

Colorvision have already said the spyder2 will not calibrate the 2408 due to the wide gamut nature of the screen - no chance sadly. You need to upgrade to the Spyder3 to do it yourself. The purple issue you see I have also encountered and for me it was the result of a corrupt profile (or one not matching your screen/graphics card).

I concluded it is better to get a calibration system that looks like it can handle changes to lcd technology.

It is a pain - I have a spyder2 sitting here redundant.

Mike

[Kent Clark]

I just saw that this thread has been resurrected.

True about the RGB. You start at all factory preset values, but you WILL be required to adjust the Brightness and Contrast DURING the calibration. This is how I calibrated my old Dell 19" LCD and my current Samsung 2220WM using the Spyder2 Pro with very satisfying results.

True about both, ChasP505. Maybe you misread what I wrote. I wrote to Datacolor about using the Spyder3 Pro to calibrate my 2408. They told me that for best results they recommend that the brightness, contrast and RGB sliders not be changed from the factory defaults. You are not REQUIRED to adjust the brightness and contrast, you can leave them alone as Datacolor suggests.

Incorrect. The Spyder Pro DOES allow you to set a luminance target. I've done it countless times! Out of curiosity I downloaded the user manual for the Spyder3 to compare it with the Spyder 2 Pro. It's virtually identical and clearly shows that you can set black and white luminance points AND that it's preferable to NOT adjust the RGB sliders when calibrating an LCD. During the calibration of my Samsung, the software has me adjust the monitor's Brightness and Contrast controls to match the black and white "Target Luminance" values (0.53 and 120 in my case)...Begin with the monitor set to factory presets, choose 2.2 Native white point, and select "Measured" luminance instead of "Visual".

Here is where I start to wonder if you and I are talking about the same product. Where did you download the Spyder3 Pro user manual? One of the things that bothers me about the Spyder is that for such a complicated subject it comes with NO user manual. And as far as I can tell there is no manual available on their website (http://spyder.datacolor.com/dl_manuals.php). There is a manual for the Spyder3 Elite but that is not what I have.

I've gone back to the Spyder software and I can't find the controls you are talking about. In my software the brightness and contrast adjustments are just visual, you adjust until the white/gray boxes and gray/black boxes are optimum, no way to input numerical values that I can see. I also see no place to select "measured" luminance instead of "visual". Again, maybe the Elite software allows you to do that but as far as I know the Pro software does not.

So help me out, where is the manual for the Spyder3 Pro? Show me some screen shots of the Spyder software that allows you to input numerical luminance targets. If I've missed something in this software I'd like to know.

[Dusty]

Just a question for those with the Dell 2408 and Spyder2/3 pro.

When using the Spyder to calibrate it, trying to adjust the RGB setting of the monitor is difficult unless you move the Spyder because the OSD falls withing the Spyder 'box'.
Do you guys move the Spyder or do you persevere and adjust the settings while it's on the screen?

I find it very difficult since you can't adjust the OSD position on the Dell, or can you?

[dragosbrd]

can anyone can send my a color profile made with spyder 3? I have an 9600 Gt grafic card and vista! I want to see if the color look the same as my spyder 2
my mail is dragos_borcanea@yahoo.com Thanks

[René Damkot]

Wouldn't make sense, as the monitor profile is specific to your monitor....

[dragosbrd]

because is a dell 2408 thread i thought that someone having this monitor can send my a profile. I only want to check if lightroom or photoshop or other color management aplications are messing up the colors because vista is displaying them correctly.

[René Damkot]

Just to clarify: LR and PS display identical, yet different then Vista? (what application?)

Or is LR different from PS and Vista (color managed application), which are identical?

In the first case: Are you sure it's Vista that' "right?"
In the second case, your monitor profile is likely to be partly corrupted.

Anyway; you can (temporarily) use a "generic" profile for your monitor (sRGB for instance), to see if the problem you are seeing disappears.

Otherwise, some more info might be helpfull.

[Kent Clark]

Dusty, I don't know of any way to move the OSD. I just leave the Spyder in place, I can still see the numbers and I've done it so many times I've got it memorized.

[Dusty]

Dusty, I don't know of any way to move the OSD. I just leave the Spyder in place, I can still see the numbers and I've done it so many times I've got it memorized.

Thanks, I didn't think so.
It would've been easier if you could so that you wouldn't need to close the OSD each time you needed to update a reading after and RGB slider adjustment.
Having the OSD on would effect the reading.

As it is now, I can sort of see the red and green slider, but the blue is obscured and I have to 'guess' it's position.
But as you say I've memorized it after a while.

[rmlewis1]

Hi All

This has been a great thread for me. I recently purchased a Dell 2408 WFP Ultrasharp and it has given me the horrors.

It was too bright, colours were oversaturated, etc so I used my spyder 2 to calibrate but not much improvement. I also had a pink tinge. When my friends visited my Web page (www.broughttolight.com)with photos of my recent trip to France they were dark and dull.

After reading this thread I upgraded to a Spyder 3 Elite and recalibrated. As recommended I brought the brightness down to 5 and unplugged any USB connections.

I now have a screen that I am very happy with. The brightness and saturation seems true and the pink tinge has gone.

Thanks all for the information. :D:D

Rob

[The Outhouse]

Wish I had read this thread before buying this monitor as I am not too clever with the PC stuff. Bought a spyder3pro and have tried countless variations to get an acceptable callibration. Not ready to give in yet though especially after reading this thread.
I may have to wait until I am in a bettr frame of mind before tackling it though as the 2408 may just end up being processed through my house windows at a great speed.
Any short easy calibration for dummies advice welcome.

[René Damkot]

Not about the Spyder, but a calibration guide nevertheless: Click (http://www.imagescience.com.au/ColourControl/colourProducts/gmUsingEyeOneDisplay.html)

[samtaha]

I have a Dell 2408WFP calibrated using Spyder2 Suite. It's connected via HDMI to my Nvidia 8800 GT. Out of the box this monitor's colors suck big time and the presets are useless, but after calibration it's great. I went with the standard approach: monitor at factory settings but set to custom RGB for tuning during calibration, gamma 2.2-6500 in the software and going through the standard calibration process using RGB sliders until I actually got a deltaE of 0.0 and a white point of around 6450k. That's as close to perfect as you can get. I took many test shots with my new camera (Nikon D90) and I can say that the colors on the monitor now nearly perfectly match "reality" when using a color management-aware application so I'm pretty happy. HOWEVER..

1. I can attest there is a slight pinkish tinge on the left side of the monitor only visible when looking at a clear gray or white background, but not visible at all when looking at normal images, so it doesn't bother me and doesn't affect my work. Ok, it bothers me a BIT :-)

2. Brightness is very high and I brought it down to 30 (from default 50) and I think I'm going to bring it down a bit more.. maybe 20. I left contrast alone

3. I tried the "check shadows from the side" trick and yeah I can see more shadows when I do that but I think this is a monitor thing, not a calibration thing. I don't see this as a major issue.

4. what REALLY bothers me is that in non color-aware applications like Picasa, ACDSee and Internet Explorer, my images have a slight reddish tint giving an extra warm look and totally screws up skin tones (become too reddish). This is driving me crazy and I'm confused because I actually moved the RGB sliders during calibration so that should have an impact on any program (if someone can explain to this me that would be great). When I viewed my web images using another laptop using IE they looked normal so I guess it's just my monitor or something in my profile. Photo colors are accurate ONLY in color-managed applications.

I read in previous posts that Spyder2 isn't compatible with the 2408 but I think it is, at least version 2.3.5 is which is the version compatible with Vista.

Last point, my printer is broke (Canon Pixma ip8500) so I couldn't test how close my monitor images are to my printer's output.

Good luck everyone.
Sam

[René Damkot]

what REALLY bothers me is that in non color-aware applications like Picasa, ACDSee and Internet Explorer, my images have a slight reddish tint giving an extra warm look and totally screws up skin tones

For starters, the Dell 2408WFP is a wide gamut screen.
So when images are viewed in a non color managed application, the 'pixel values' get sent straight to the screen.
Let's take sRGB 255,0,0 ("reddest possible red" in sRGB). This gets sent to the monitor as 255,0,0 and is displayed as the "reddest possible red" the monitor can display. Which is probably way redder the the sRGB version...

Also, when setting R, G and B (not sure if this is the best approach, depending on how the adjustments are done internally) you just set the white point. And only for a certain brightness at that.
Might be that R, G and B don't "react equally" to a certain change of "bit value" (If you get what I'm trying to say).

Simple solution: Don't use non color managed programs. ;)

ACDSee Pro does color manage, and according to this page (http://www.impulseadventure.com/photo/flow-catalog-compare.html), there is a ($$) "photoPro" plugin that enables it in ACDSee...

FF3 is a better browser then IE any day IMO.

[samtaha]

Let's take sRGB 255,0,0 ("reddest possible red" in sRGB). This gets sent to the monitor as 255,0,0 and is displayed as the "reddest possible red" the monitor can display. Which is probably way redder the the sRGB version...


Thank you SO MUCH for explaining why my images in non color managed software appear more saturated, especially reds. It's been driving me crazy since I bought my monitor 2 months ago! Your explanation is simple yet it makes sense. So I guess there is nothing wrong with the way I calibrated/profiled my monitor and nothing wrong with the monitor itself... (I was really worried...)

A few questions....

I'm starting to wonder if I should be shooting in Adobe RGB which has a wider gamut and may better match my monitor's ability to display more colors? How will these images appear in non color managed apps? MUST I save the sRGB profile in the JPG's before I upload them to the web?

[bohdank]

You should, since sRGB is the web standard.

[René Damkot]

I'm starting to wonder if I should be shooting in Adobe RGB which has a wider gamut and may better match my monitor's ability to display more colors? How will these images appear in non color managed apps? MUST I save the sRGB profile in the JPG's before I upload them to the web?

You might want to read the link from my sig: A few links on the different color spaces, and why to use them.

For web: IMO you should convert to sRGB in all cases, and preferably embed the icc profile (unless spaced is *extremely* tight). That way all color managed applications will display correctly.

[12mnkys]

i agree with the Dells have very bright screens, but when i calibrated mine with the spyder 3, I was able to match the "target" setting almost dead on. Temp at 6500K, Gamma at 2.2, with a target of 135 cd/m2...I managed to get to 6530K, 2.2, and about 138 cd/m2...

I haven't touched the brightness, since i reset it to factory defaults...

[samtaha]

i agree with the Dells have very bright screens, but when i calibrated mine with the spyder 3, I was able to match the "target" setting almost dead on. Temp at 6500K, Gamma at 2.2, with a target of 135 cd/m2...I managed to get to 6530K, 2.2, and about 138 cd/m2...

I haven't touched the brightness, since i reset it to factory defaults...

How do your images look in non color-managed applications? Are they a bit reddish?

[12mnkys]

How do your images look in non color-managed applications? Are they a bit reddish?

Yes, but not as much as some of the other members have mentioned. I also printed some pictures over the weekend and they look very close to the screen images with my very very consumer HP printer.

The one thing I take away from all of it is at least I know that my Color Settings are now correct and when using color managed programs, i.e. photoshop, FF3... that what you see is as close to correct as it can be.

Mike

[souporman]

Sorry, I know this is an old thread but I was having the exact same issues with the same monitor & spyder version.

In the end, I fixed it by using the default sRGB setting on the monitor and then calibrating. Anything else, including the custom RGB sliders, made everything to bright and to pink/red.

[telles75]

I am on this exact same boat right now... 2408WFP and Spyder3 Pro. For the guys that finally managed to calibrate the monitor, what approximate values of Contrast/Brightness and RGB did you use to start the calibration?

Thanks!

[souporman]

I am on this exact same boat right now... 2408WFP and Spyder3 Pro. For the guys that finally managed to calibrate the monitor, what approximate values of Contrast/Brightness and RGB did you use to start the calibration?

Thanks!

I set contrast/brightness to 50/50 and used the sRGB setting instead of the manual RGB sliders.

Worked for me.

[telles75]

I set contrast/brightness to 50/50 and used the sRGB setting instead of the manual RGB sliders.

Worked for me.

I find that sRGB is really bad in this monitor, but I haven't tried calibrating it this way; I only tried custom RGB. I will give it a shot and let you know.

[Damo77]

I've started at 50s for everything, and had good results.

[ray turner]

Just want to thank all who posted such good advice on using the Spyder3 to calibrate the Dell 2408WFP. Thanks to datacolors Spartin help I was really down on my new 2408 until I found this tread. By ignoring the advice to "leave the brightness and contrast at default" and eventually converging to brightness=0 and contrast=95 then adjusting the color green and blue sliders down to 78 and 80 (red still at 100), I finally got luminance down to 135. Images are great and excellent matches to prints from our iPF5000. Did this all from by adjusting the monitor leaving the NVIDIA controls alone. One odd observation is that the various greys used by Spyder to read the monitor ran from pint to cyan as they cycled from dark to light but the resulting profile was right on.

Thanks to all

Ray

[Damo77]

Hi Ray, welcome to the forum.

Um, I'm glad you're happy, but I would certainly not recommend having your brightness at 0. Like I said, I start with Brightness, R, G and B all at 50, and adjusted from there, and I've had good results.

With this monitor, and most others, I've always had the best results keeping all those settings between 30 and 70.

[telles75]

My settings on my two 2408WFP are:

Brightness: 50
Contrast: 50
Red: 85
Green: 79
Blue: 80

for
Gamma: 2.2
White Point: 6500K

And then my calibration is spot on. Identical for both LCDs and a very accurate comparison to print. I like the 2408W in Colour managed applications but it really blows up colours in non managed ones.

I am not sure how can you accomplish the same with a Brightness of 0.

[kevindar]

I started another thread on this, but to summarize my results also, (2408, spyder2 pro) I also had the oversaturated red cast in my windows and picasa, but perfect color in PS and LR. My initial profiling was using custom rgb, and sliding the rgb sliders through calibration. then I did sRGB native monitor setting. My windows images and picasa now much more closely resemble photoshop, although the colors are a touch lifeless.

[Damo77]

Hi Kevin, I'm trying to figure this out ... I don't think it's necessarily a good thing that your non-colour-managed applications closely match your colour-managed ones on a wide-gamut monitor.

Why were you not happy with your initial "custom" calibration?

In both instances (custom and sRGB calibrations) do your prints match Photoshop equally well?

[kevindar]

damo, the reason I was not happy is that picasa which I use extensively to view my images as well as my desktop was over saturated with a reddish Hue. LR and photoshop worked fine. I just did the calibration tonight. in the past, the prints were very close to what photoshop would show. the only was for my images to show up correctly on my monitor through other programs would be to load them in to photoshop, and conver the profile to the monitor profile and then save them.
Now colors on photoshop are a little more muted, which I actually corrected by applying the digital vibrance of my video card. yes I now, very unorthodox, but I have an idea of what the true color should be. I have not printed yet. more importantly, picasa and desktop now look right.
As far as wide gamut monitor goes, I have moved back and forth from adobe rgb to srgb, and have decided to just stick with srgb. It seems to be working fine for me. may not be the best choice for everyone.

[Damo77]

Oh, gee, this sounds seventeen kinds of wrong.

damo, the reason I was not happy is that picasa which I use extensively to view my images as well as my desktop was over saturated with a reddish Hue. LR and photoshop worked fine. I just did the calibration tonight.
...
more importantly, picasa and desktop now look right.
With respect, if you prefer to judge your colour by Picasa rather than PS, you did the wrong thing buying a wide-gamut monitor.

Now colors on photoshop are a little more muted, which I actually corrected by applying the digital vibrance of my video card. yes I now, very unorthodox, but I have an idea of what the true color should be.
This scares me a lot.

the only was for my images to show up correctly on my monitor through other programs would be to load them in to photoshop, and conver the profile to the monitor profile and then save them.
If the only place people ever see your photos is on your monitor, this workflow makes sense. Otherwise, it flies in the face of correct colour-management procedure. A monitor profile is not intended to be an image profile.

in the past, the prints were very close to what photoshop would show.
...
I have not printed yet.
I look forward to hearing if your prints are still satisfactory.

[kevindar]

Well Damo, as I stated what works for me may not work for others. I do have to do a couple of prints and see how they turn out. I do have a 2005 20 inch lcd, which I have not color calibrated, but closely resembled my originally calibrated 2408 in photoshop, which now closely resembles my recalibrated 2408.
It is not that I prefer to judge my images by picasa, it is that I use it to view my images, and I use web to view other people's images (firefox) and the colors have always been off. I suppose my other shoice is to go back to my original calibration, and use my second monitor for picasa and firefox, keeping this for photoshop and lightroom. may not be a bad idea actually.
I will let you know how prints turn out.

[René Damkot]

FF3 with color management enabled should work just fine for browsing.
On a wide gamut screen, a non color managed application will always show an sRGB image wrong. That's just the way it is...

I agree with Damo that undoing the calibration to get images to show "better" in Picasa is not the way to go.

[telles75]

sRGB mode in the 2408 is horrible! I tried it a while back following the advice from someone in this thread and as Kevin mentions the non-color managed applications look better (not oversaturated and redish) but Photoshop looked completely awful.

I use AdobeRGB mode in Photoshop and calibrated using custom RGB. My Photoshop, Lightroom and Firefox look wonderful; of course the wallpaper, IE and non-color managed applications looks like crap, super saturated, but who cares. I stick to Firefox for web browsing and Photoshop/Lightroom for photoediting. If I want to quickly see a JPG I use Windows Photo Gallery (also color managed app).

[telles75]

I use web to view other people's images (firefox) and the colors have always been off.


Kevin are you sure you turned COLOR MANAGEMENT ON on the advanced Firefox settings (its off by default). Firefox should display colours identical to Photoshop since they are both colour managed.

[beepclick]

Personally, I wouldn't calibrate my monitor to get good results when viewing images uploaded to a photo sharing site. I'm pretty sure that most sites reprocess your uploaded images to create differently sized versions.

[kevindar]

Update, back to the old system. when I looked at my photoshop closely, the colors are just off. certainly not as accurate as they were using the custom sRGB. I did not realize I have to manually turn color management on in firefox. thanks for letting me know. I will limit my use of picasa to my second monitor, and keep the 2408 on custom sRGB.

thanks everyone.

[Damo77]

I'm pretty sure that most sites reprocess your uploaded images to create differently sized versions.
I don't know if this is true, but if it is, the effect on colour would be negligible to the point of invisible, I'd say.

Personally, I wouldn't calibrate my monitor to get good results when viewing images uploaded to a photo sharing site.
This is terrible advice. Of course you should. It's your responsibility to get your photos right. You can't control how other people view them.

I'll explain it as I've done before: If you don't calibrate your monitor, your web images may accidentally look right to the average Joe on his uncalibrated monitor and non-CM browser, but it's highly unlikely. They certainly won't look right to another photographer who is viewing in a properly colour-managed environment.

If you calibrate your monitor, your images still won't look right to average Joe, but will look perfect to a photographer.

So, here's your choice: Do you want your photos to look wrong to an average Joe, who will neither notice nor care; or to your peers, who will think you are incompetent? Not a difficult choice...

[Damo77]

Update, back to the old system. when I looked at my photoshop closely, the colors are just off. certainly not as accurate as they were using the custom sRGB. I did not realize I have to manually turn color management on in firefox. thanks for letting me know. I will limit my use of picasa to my second monitor, and keep the 2408 on custom sRGB.

thanks everyone.
Glad we could help.

[telles75]

I did not realize I have to manually turn color management on in firefox. thanks for letting me know.

Yup, you need to enable it Kevin, here's a link that will help you do it.
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-9311-9478

Cheers

[kevindar]

I did the add on, and looked at the test page, and it works. cool. Irony is that I am at work now, and going to my flickr page, my skin tones look better than they do on picasa on my 2408 monitor. Not quite as good as photoshop, since my work computer is not color calibrated.
This calibration thing is a little bit of pain. Sometimes ignorance is a bliss.

[mson]

I was experiencing a lot of the same pink/red tint problems with the 2408 and Spyder3 Pro. I kept trying and it just started working... Strange.

[algenon5]

Well that thread has been an interesting read and I think i am even more confused than ever about what folks found the best configuration was for the 2408 and using spyder3 elite.

As far i can decipher there are two issues here.

1. whats the best settings to use on the 2408 dell monitor before calibration.

i.e. is it better to use the
Preset Mode of sRGB
or the
Preset Mode of Custom RGB

Having chose one of those options what should brightness and contrast levels be set to?


2. What setting are best in Spyder3 Elite programme.
It seems there are a vast array of things it can configure or simply ignore.

I have tried expert mode and it had me adjusting my brightness down to zero to achieve a luminance target. The net result was a very grey dull and flat colour profile.

If someone has actually worked out the best options for the above i would be very appreciative as having spent to many hours taking and editing photos i want to be confident that when i upload them to flickr or any other browser app they are colour correct even if the person looking at them is not using a colour managment app or hasnt calibrated their monitor.

Cheers

:)

[ChasP505]

...i want to be confident that when i upload them to flickr or any other browser app they are colour correct even if the person looking at them is not using a colour managment app...

Doesn't this statement alone dictate sRGB mode? I would think that if you were primarily concerned about print output, than the wider gamut setting would be considered.

[René Damkot]

i want to be confident that when i upload them to flickr or any other browser app they are colour correct even if the person looking at them is not using a colour managment app or hasnt calibrated their monitor.

Yeah, and I want a million bucks. That's not going to happen either ;)

[bunyarra]

whats the best settings to use on the 2408 dell monitor before calibration.


I can't speak for the Spyder3 - I abandoned their products when v2 was unable to handle wide gamut. Using the Color Munki, I have chosen the Custom RGB and dropped all the colours down to 60 or so. This stops the desktop being too saturated as it is not fully color managed. Brightness and contract are adjusted according to on screen directions from the Color Munki. I think they ended up also being around 50-60.

If someone has actually worked out the best options for the above i would be very appreciative as having spent to many hours taking and editing photos i want to be confident that when i upload them to flickr or any other browser app they are colour correct even if the person looking at them is not using a colour managment app or hasnt calibrated their monitor.

Cheers

:)

As others have implied, this is never going to happen sadly.

The best you are going to achieve is to get the screen well calibrated then save the images in sRGB format with a color profile embedded. If you are lucky, the person viewing will also be running a calibrated screen and browser then they will see just about what you do. The more likely scenario is that their screen will be amazingly bright and nastily saturated. Your photos will look abhorrent to you but gorgeous to them (unless black and white of course!) :)

Your Vista/Windows7/XP desktop on a 2408 will generally look over saturated - viewing photos with apps that are not colour aware is just pointless and demoralising. Dialing down the RGB values will go some way to help here but not fix the problem.

Mike.

[aramis]

My settings on my two 2408WFP are:

Brightness: 50
Contrast: 50
Red: 85
Green: 79
Blue: 80

for
Gamma: 2.2
White Point: 6500K

And then my calibration is spot on. Identical for both LCDs and a very accurate comparison to print. I like the 2408W in Colour managed applications but it really blows up colours in non managed ones.

I am not sure how can you accomplish the same with a Brightness of 0.

These settings are working me so far, thanks dude.

Been using a Spyder2 for while and just gone Spyder3.

First few runs made firefox, MSN etc look very 'sandy brown' - which was very frustrating And the Cursor aqua! Images looked super punchy though in LR2, which leads me to believe that the Spyder2 may not have been working too well.

Looks a lot better now though, so hopefully, it's going to work fine.

[ChasP505]

Been using a Spyder2 for while and just gone Spyder3.

First few runs made firefox, MSN etc look very 'sandy brown' - which was very frustrating And the Cursor aqua! Images looked super punchy though in LR2, which leads me to believe that the Spyder2 may not have been working too well.

One frequently cited quality of the Spyder3 hardware, as compared with the older Spyder2 and the EyeOne Display hardware, is its ability to handle wide gamut monitors.

[basroil]

One frequently cited quality of the Spyder3 hardware, as compared with the older Spyder2 and the EyeOne Display hardware, is its ability to handle wide gamut monitors.

And the 2408WFP has a massively wide gamut. Don't think any other monitors in it's price range come close. But that makes it really annoying when editing photos and having even a bit off in calibration.

[evanford]

I just purchased this monitor and Spyder 3 Elite online after getting one of these monitors at work with a Dell Latitude E6400 laptop. I love the 1920X1200 native resolution and wide screen. However, after reading this thread I am wondering if I made a mistake. I am familiar with Colorvision's Spyder calibration process since I already use Spyder2 with my current monitor. What worries me is someone above mentioned 'auto correction' when the monitor awakes from sleep mode or is turned on. My current display does this which is one of the reasons I am dumping it. Isn't an LCD display which does auto-anything useless for calibration purposes? Using this monitor at work for a week I have not noticed any auto changes but I am just using it in normal desktop preset mode. Is there a way to turn this auto correction mode off? Note I am not talking about dynamic contrast which I see can be turned off.

[ChasP505]

Note I am not talking about dynamic contrast which I see can be turned off.

I think its the same thing. If you can't find a menu setting named "Auto Correct" and can't find any reference to it in the documentation or from a Google search, I'd think it would be safe to assume that...

This is the only reference I could find:
"As with all LCDs, there's an "auto adjust" function that executes when you change resolutions while using an analog input (i.e. VGA). This function works as expected and takes a couple seconds to execute; it apparently remembers the last 10 resolutions you've used; otherwise, the auto adjustment runs again." (http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=3302&p=5)

[evanford]

My settings on my two 2408WFP are:

Brightness: 50
Contrast: 50
Red: 85
Green: 79
Blue: 80

for
Gamma: 2.2
White Point: 6500K




After fiddling with different settings all day, I found settings close to the above work best for me. Actually, I started with RGB all equal to 85, and both brightness and contrast set to the default of 50. I ended up with brightness 50 contrast 42, R 85, G 80, B 78. I targeted a white point of 140 and black point .35 (that is as low as I could get it), gamma 2.2 6500K. I am not happy with the shadow detail but there doesn't seem to be a fix for that (same with my last lcd).

This was using Spyder3 Elite. I must say I am not very impressed with the Colorvision Spyder3. I see no real improvements over the Spyder2. The hardware feels more fragile than the Spyder2. I only bought it because I was familiar with their products and needed wide gamut support. Their instructions are confusing to say the least and I had a lot of trouble re-running the software from scratch to try different options. I had to reinstall it, for example, just to get the custom RGB option after I ran it the first time selecting presets. I am curious how folks with the Color Munki are making out. Is it as easy to use as the web site says? Does it work well on the 2408WFP?

[ChasP505]

... I ended up with brightness 50 contrast 42, R 85, G 80, B 78. I targeted a white point of 140 and black point .35 (that is as low as I could get it), gamma 2.2 6500K. I am not happy with the shadow detail but there doesn't seem to be a fix for that (same with my last lcd). ...

I would have left the contrast alone and reduced the brightness. For the black point, I would not have specified a target, but let the device measure the black level which will shift relative to the white luminance value. It's not as important to get an ultra low black point as it is to achieve a good ratio of at least 400:1 between white and black. When I used the Spyder3 Elite and Spyder2 Pro software I always left the field for Black point empty and the black point took care of itself.

[evanford]

I would have left the contrast alone and reduced the brightness. For the black point, I would not have specified a target, but let the device measure the black level which will shift relative to the white luminance value. It's not as important to get an ultra low black point as it is to achieve a good ratio of at least 400:1 between white and black. When I used the Spyder3 Elite and Spyder2 Pro software I always left the field for Black point empty and the black point took care of itself.


Thanks ChasP. I will give that approach a try.

[Josh_30]

I'm going to try this tonight when I get home from work. I ran my first calibration this morning (Spyder3Pro + 2208WFP) and while overall it looks better than before, I have the dreaded pink/red shift. >:( I didn't have time to play around with the settings before I left for work, but after reading this thread I think I have a good place to start. Thanks!

One question... should I have the dynamic contrast turned off? Any other menu settings I should be messing with that haven't been mentioned explicitly here? I just reset the monitor to factory defaults and ran the Spyder the first time I did it, and obviously that didn't work out too well. Also, the RGB option on the spyder setup program won't let me check the box next to it. I think I remember seeing some fine print at the bottom of the screen about this... oh well, I guess I'll have to figure that out in a few hours when I'm actually doing it.

[ChasP505]

One question... should I have the dynamic contrast turned off?

Definitely.

Maybe watch this video (http://www.video.bhphotovideo.com/?fr_story=8a3e1d36ce62bfdb3d4585bae56a83579458db30 ).

[Josh_30]

I figured that it should be off, I just didn't recall seeing it mentioned before in this thread. I guess I just missed it...

The screen is nicely calibrated now. I never got the full auto setup to work right... So I started with the manual RGB settings telles75 mentioned earlier, and after tweaking just a bit for my screen, bingo, much nicer with no color cast anymore. Thanks!

[ChasP505]

...The screen is nicely calibrated now. I never got the full auto setup to work right... So I started with the manual RGB settings telles75 mentioned earlier, and after tweaking just a bit for my screen, bingo, much nicer with no color cast anymore. Thanks!

The debate about adjusting RGB controls on a consumer level LCD monitor with no internal LUT has pros and cons on both sides of the argument. Those who say DON'T adjust the RGBs contend that the ONLY real control on a low end LCD is the Brightness/Backlight control. All else is digital adjustment. Adjusting the RGBs can result in color accuracy problems.

But not adjusting the RGBs to fine tune the white balance puts more work on the video card LUT, sometimes resulting in increased banding or posterization. I happen to be on the side recommending NOT touching the RGB controls and if possible, calibrating to Native white point.

[fcbruno]

Hi Guys

Re: calibrating a Dell 2408WFP with the Spyder3 Pro

Pulling my hair out :)

I've been through the calibration, choosing 'no' for the ambient light thing, and keep getting the following error message despite having brightness turned down to 5 and contrast about 90, and my SRGB untouched from default settings:

"The calibrated 'White Luminance' of the display is too high - your adjustments did not achieve the desired target value."

I'm on a Mac so chose 'Graphics', 'Mac', 'SRGB' and 6500 (SRGB) and 2.2.

I keep getting this error over and over.

Any ideas how I might overcome this? I'm completely bamboozled.

[Lowner]

Try Chas P's idea of using Native White point, not 6500 and see if it works any better.

[ChasP505]

I'm going to deviate from earlier advice, because I know that what works most of the time, doesn't work ALL of the time. Firstly, set monitor controls to default settings. Leave Contrast alone and lower the Brightness to about 10%. Make sure Dynamic Contrast Ratio is turned off.

409477

Now set the color preset mode to Custom RGB.

409478

Run the calibration with 6500K, 2.2 gamma, ambient light off. Adjust RGB controls as needed during the calibration. Don't touch Brightness or Contrast.

Read this:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_2408wfp.htm

It gives you a good set of adjustments to calibrate with. See the section titled: "Dell 2408WFP - Calibrated Settings (Custom Mode)".