G6 vs. D Rebel

[ethan's dad]

I am looking to upgrade the family camera. I have a active two year old son and a very slow point and shoot kodak digital camera. I want grow my photographic abilty as my son develops ie football, baseball. I am also interested in a camera for photos at sporting events ( big Vols fan).
I am considering the G6 and the Rebel I have priced both on line for around 600.00. Any help would be appreciated.

[Andy_T]

Hi Ethansdad,

welcome to the forum!!!

For me ... the answer is pretty simple ... get the DRebel.

Pro's:
- Better image quality
- Possibility to get low light photos due to larger sensor
- More creative options (especially DOF control)
- WAY faster Autofocus (I also have a 2 year old son, believe me :wink: )
- Possibilities to upgrade.
- Will keep its value better than the G6

Cons:
- Larger, heavier to lug around
- A bit more expensive initially
- WARNING ... it's the entry drug ... you'll keep adding equipment to it :wink:

So ... unless the main advantage of the G6, that it is small and fits into your pocket is very important to you ... get the DRebel. You won't regret it.

One more thing ... before you buy anything, be sure to read up on it in this forum! You'll learn so much about digital photography if you just use one day to look at the interesting threads here and in the 'Digital EOS part' of this forum here.

And when you decide which one to buy ... pick a good shop. There are a lot of online companies that will rip you off ... check www.resellerratings before.

Best regards,
Andy

[Alnath]

unless the main advantage of the G6, that it is small and fits into your pocket

You must have the biggest pockets known to mankind my friend :lol:

The G6 is possibly the best non dSLR camera on the market at its price so either choice will not be a bad one. The dSLR might be the better option technically but the G6 is the winner when it comes to days out with your son, kids are a handful as it is without having a dSLR and its associated equipment to hinder you.

[Andy_T]

I forgot one main advantage of the G6 ... the swivel LCD (because I never use it).

You don't have that on a DSLR, you have to look through the viewfinder, like in the old days.

Alnath ... I actually put the G2 into my ... coat ... pocket :lol:
I think the G6 is even a little smaller, right?

Best regards,
Andy

[gtg]

The G6 is definitely a better choice considering ur requirement.

Advantages:
1. Twist and Swivel LCD
2. Small Size
3. Very Good Movie Mode(I dont think it is there in DRebel)
4. No Extra Money on a lotta Lenses.

No offsense intended against the DRebel... It is a very good digital SLR at its price range. But it is not without its limitations when it comes to size , weight and price of lenses.

[Ogrt48]

The G6 isn't small at all, it's not going to fit in any normal pocket.
Sure the Rebel doesn't have a video mode, it's a dslr, but the G6's movie mode isn't that good, it's limited to 3 minutes and then only 30 seconds in the high quality mode.
No extra money on lenses isn't an advantage, you're stuck with that one lens with that camera.

[gtg]

The G6 isn't small at all, it's not going to fit in any normal pocket.
Sure the Rebel doesn't have a video mode, it's a dslr, but the G6's movie mode isn't that good, it's limited to 3 minutes and then only 30 seconds in the high quality mode.
No extra money on lenses isn't an advantage, you're stuck with that one lens with that camera.

G6 is small and light compared to DRebel is what i meant. I never said that it is gonna fit a pocket. It is obvious that a camera with the capabillity of G6 isnt going to fit any normal pocket. Still it is more easily carry-able that DRebel

G6 has a movie mode... That is what counts. It can take short clips and that is the purpose. Otherwise there are always better camcorders available for cheaper prices that the G6.

I agree with the lens part... u r stuck with the built in lens... But the built in lens is small enuf to snug into the body of the camera itself. In Drebel u have a thing protruding out always which makes ur carry bag size even larger...

All said and done... DRebel definitely takes better pictures than G6 is certain situations and it has better controls than G6. But the requirement of the person determines which camera to buy, coz not every one needs a DSLR.

[Ballen Photo]

I have a active two year old son and a very slow point and shoot kodak digital camera. I want grow my photographic abilty as my son develops ie football, baseball. I am also interested in a camera for photos at sporting events ( big Vols fan).
I am considering the G6 and the Rebel I have priced both on line for around 600.00. Any help would be appreciated.

Hi Ethans Dad. For your requirements, ie sports, and fast moving son, the answer is obvious to me. You need a camera with fast reflexes, and of the two you mentioned, the D-Rebel fills the bill much better.
Now, if you have the patience to anticipate, and or set your shots up, then the more compact G-6 could be a contender.
I have both the 10D and a G-5, and I wouldn't want to give up either one, as they both have their own set of advantages. I carry the G-5 when I cant be bothered to carry extra lenses and such, as well as not having to worry about changing lenses in dusty environments.In the end I feel either one would be a fine choice, but I think you'll appreciate the speed of the DSLR more for your intended purpose. Mount a 50mm lens on it and you'll have quite a bit more lens speed as well. :roll:
-Bruce

[ethan's dad]

I decided to go with the Drebel with the included lens kit and a 1g flash card.It should be here in a couple of days. I am now looking at zoom lenses any suggestions? I have been looking at the EF 75-300 or the 70-200 f/4L. What would be better for the money.

[Ogrt48]

The 75-300 is a very slow lens, its also soft, go with the L. :D

[catcher in the rye]

".....All said and done... DRebel definitely takes better pictures than G6 is certain situations and it has better controls than G6. ..."

you kidding.
ITs NO TRUE.
defint.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/read_opinions.asp?prodkey=canon_g6

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/read_opinions.asp?prodkey=canon_eos300d

and 7,1 pix vs 6,3 pix
and light lens of G6 ( 2,0 !!) vs dark one of 300 D

Canon 300 D
6.3 million effective pixels Average rating
Construction 4.22
Features 4.23
Image quality 4.63 (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Ease of use 4.54
Value for money 4.64
Overall 4.45



Canon G6
7.1 million effective pixels
35 mm - 140 mm (4x) zoom Average rating (23 responses)

Construction 4.41
Features 4.63
Image quality 4.78 ( !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Ease of use 4.57
Value for money 4.57
Overall 4.59




:lol:

choose 300 D
-if you want dark photos !
8)

[Ogrt48]

Catcher, wtf are you smoking?

[catcher in the rye]

:D

og. - dont be nervous.. 8)
-- I must tell you- I saw yesterday photos of 300 D,from my friend.
--and it was difficult to believe how problematic they were.
afternoon ,on the beach ., good light and......I CANT to believe..- it was like no ANY white balance in this camera..- almost ALL grey and without contrast, and very soft. -- well., I saw simmilar problem in Nikon D70 few weeks ago. - believe me ! - I havnt any intention to write about.- but I dont know WHy this going on ???!!! :? - I remember I was using the SAME LENS at analog Nikon 90x and IT WAS ABSOLUTELY OTHER !!!( the same situation with standard Canon lens in 1. --- its something wrong on the line analog.- digital ??!!!- THE SAME LENS - and MUCH MUCH worst results !!- believe me ., I was ashamed to comment my friends photos.

- so thats the reason I vote for dedicat. lens of G6.

[Ogrt48]

I've had the G6 and Rebel.. The Rebel beats the G6 easily even with it's kit lens in image quality..
Then again they're different types of cameras for people with different needs...

[RhoXS]

I had a G3 and lost it. I replaced it with a digital SLR (Nikon D70). The digital SLR's are definetly superior picture taking engines in almost all respects, but, because of their size, they do not have the great utility that the G series offers. When my wife and I travel, the G3 conveniently fits in my jacket pocket (albeit not pants pocket). It also takes great pictures (the G6 will do even better). I missed its utility so much that I just replaced it with a used G3 and now have both the D70 and G3.

The G3 and G5 do have a very major drawback that I understand has been fixed to some extent in the G6. The auto focus system sucks. If there is any consequential relative motion between the camera and the subject the autofocus system fails and the camera will not take the picture. With the G3, I have been unable to take spontaneous photos of our grandchildren if they are moving, as is usually the case with spontaneous photos of young kids. I have lost great sports pics of our grandkids sliding into first, etc. Pics from a moving vehicle just don't happen. The D70 (and I suspect the Digital Rebel also) handles these pics with little problem.

The G3/G5 default to ASA 50 (I think the G6 does also but I am not sure). In any case, any increase in ISO will result in unacceptable (IMO) noise due to the small sensors. The digital SLRs have a relatively huge sensor and are capable of much higher effective film speeds with minimal noise. The slowest D70 ISO is 200. Last spring I set it to its max ASA (1600) to take pics at my nephews indoor graduation. The pics were surprisingly good with minimal noise degradation. I was also able to mount a 450mm (35mm equiv) tele, something obviously impossible with the G series.

In other words the G6 vs Digital Rebel decision is a trade off. Only you can decide which is best for your needs. I got lucky (sort of) and lost my G3, replaced it with a D70, and then found a pristine used G3. I got the best of both worlds (except for my wife's complaints about what I recently spent on the used G3).

[catcher in the rye]

Ogrt48.-yeah., nice apol. of D70 ( and Rebel) - so TELL me,why so big different in ,among other,dpreview.com test,for pics. quality-minus for D70 and Rebel vs G6 ??? - if this is SO GOOD WHY its SO BAD..?? :lol:

[mr.photoguy]

I would get the D rebel, if I had to choose.
I had a G3 and a G2. I liked the G3 better however, the noise at iso 200 and above was just crazy. iso 50 @ night would produce great night shots. However a friend of mine purchased a Drebel with the 17 - 55 and his photo's always looked so astounding to me.

Now that I have a DSLR. I realized some things.

- you have control over the zooming. Your hands can zoom (turn the zoom ring) much faster than the motor in the G3 or G6 can zoom.
This is important with children, who tend to move sooooo quickly.

- The autofocus is so fast on the USM lenses. Even my 50mm 1.8 is has fast autofocus, and I know the USM lenses focus even faster.

- Low light, high iso shooting creates less noise. Also day time high iso shooting creates less noise.

- You can change lenses, A big plus.. you can get zoom lenses like the 70-200 f4 or 2.8.

-----------------

As for the 75-300.. Do a search about that lense.
You will find out that the 70-200 f4 is much sharper than the 75-300. There is a comparison on the boards between the 70-200, 75-300, and just click on that link below.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48203&highlight=tamron+28+300

---------------------
The only real time I will use a prosumer again is for my powershot s230 that I carry around in my pocket 24/7 with a 256 CF.

[Andy_T]

:well., I saw simmilar problem in Nikon D70 few weeks ago. - believe me ! - I havnt any intention to write about.- but I dont know WHy this going on ???!!! :? - I remember I was using the SAME LENS at analog Nikon 90x and IT WAS ABSOLUTELY OTHER !!!( the same situation with standard Canon lens in 1. --- its something wrong on the line analog.- digital ??!!!- THE SAME LENS - and MUCH MUCH worst results !!- believe me ., I was ashamed to comment my friends photos.


Catcher,

the reason is quite simple ... digital is more demanding of the lens quality.

A mediocre 100$ lens that might produce OK pictures on a film camera (AFTER the lab is finished with them, correcting your wrong exposure ;) ) will not produce outstanding results on a DSLR.


Still ... with great lenses available at reasonable prices (e.g. 1.8/50 for 80$ or Tamron 28-75/2.8 for 350$) this is not really a problem ... if you know what to buy.

The kit lens, while not being exactly 'great', is a very good lens that is a lot better than many of the cheap Canon consumer zoom lenses (e.g. 28-90 on the film Rebel)

Another reason is that P&S cameras are programmed to deliver you good and sharp photos directly out of the camera. For this reason, the photos are normally heavily sharpened in the camera. This is a problem for a photographer who wants to get out the most of his pictures by doing his own post-processing, because the in-camera sharpening prevents that. Most DSLR's do not use extensive in-camera sharpening for that exact reason. The photographer remains the control over the process. However, if you compare the photos directly out of the camera, the photos from the P&S will look better (but they are less usable for optimizing).

Best regards,
Andy

[S45_fornow...]

EDIT: I just read Andy's reply. Basically my thoughts as well.


From what I've seen, the G6 will give you sharper, more saturated (read as more pleasing to the eye. Also depends on who's eye is looking at them) pics right out of the camera.

The DRebel takes better pics, but you need to be prepared to do some post-processing (mainly USM & brightness/contrast) to bring the pics to life. The DRebel's in-camera sharpening algorithm is not as aggressive as the G6, and therefore holds more detail in most circumstances, but again, you must use USM to bring that out.

I could go either way, but the G6 is more in my price/size range, so that's what I just ordered today. If I have pics worth printing, I still do post-processing regardless of what camera the image was captured with.

[mr.photoguy]

Yes, I agree.
I like having the option to change lenses. It's kind of like having a means to broaden your horizons.

However, I respect that this all depeneds on how far you want to take it. You may not want to deal with a SLR, but rather deal with a point and shoot. It is all up to the user; you have to try and purchase what meets your demands.

[gtg]

[quote="catcher in the ryeyou kidding.
ITs NO TRUE.
defint.
[/quote] Now u know who's kidding...
Still, i respect all the comments from the experts posted on this thread.

But just curious guys. Is there still a difference in sharpening and other artifacts if we use RAW mode in both the G6 and the DRebel.

[S45_fornow...]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the default sharpening & noise reduction algorithms for each camera are fixed and will still come into play regardless of whether you shoot in RAW or JPEG.

[gtg]

My little knowledge on RAW mode is that...

If there are 4 million photo sensors(for eg), the light intensity and the color for that pixel(from the color array) will be captured and stored for each pixel. No intepolation will be applied to find the exact color for that pixel....
When it comes to TIFF mode, the same spplies... only difference is that the interpolation will be applied to calculate the exact color of the pixel. In my guess, the camera should not apply any sharpening or other algorithms to the image.

But when we store the image as a JPEG, the in-camera algorithms may be applied... I may be totally wrong... But pls do correct me if i am wrong.

[catcher in the rye]

OK. guys !
I must to thibk over. 8) :lol:
BUT......
I hate one thing ! - WHY in Rebel and D70 there are NO LIVE PICTURE on LCD ??!! :x :x its absolutely terrible ! - I havnt a good control !
--in G6 my situation is comfortable.-thats the GREAT MINUS.(not talking about immovable LCD grhhhh :? 8) )

[gtg]

i too wonder why...

BTW does the 10D and 20D have that atleast...
Never had a chance to get one of them in my hand either...

[Andy_T]

My take on some of the latest questions here ....

... Is sharpening/colour saturation/WB etc. applied to RAW mode?

-> NO. You get exactly what the sensor 'saw'. Unless you select 'as shot' for these parameters when you do the conversion, they are converted according to your settings.

In addition, RAW captures 12 bits of colour information per channel (more details in the highlight) instead of 8 bits like JPEG.

BUT ... when people start using RAW on the G series with sharpness and contrast settings to 'low', they normally also start complaining about dull & unsharp photos
... guess why :wink:

... Does the DRebel have RAW?

-> Yes, it does, like most of the Canon cameras (apart from, e.g., the Digital Ixus line)

Best regards,
Andy

[S45_fornow...]

My take on some of the latest questions here ....

... Is sharpening/colour saturation/WB etc. applied to RAW mode?

-> NO. You get exactly what the sensor 'saw'. Unless you select 'as shot' for these parameters when you do the conversion, they are converted according to your settings.

In addition, RAW captures 12 bits of colour information per channel (more details in the highlight) instead of 8 bits like JPEG.

BUT ... when people start using RAW on the G series with sharpness and contrast settings to 'low', they normally also start complaining about dull & unsharp photos
... guess why :wink:

... Does the DRebel have RAW?

-> Yes, it does, like most of the Canon cameras (apart from, e.g., the Digital Ixus line)

Best regards,
Andy

Andy, can the sharpening be turned off altogether, or is the user still stuck having to use either a low, medium, or high sharpness setting? If so, then doesn't that mean that the RAW images have still been processed in-camera, just to different degrees?

I don't own any of the aforementioned cameras (yet), which is why I'm asking.

Thanks.

[Andy_T]

S45 ... to be honest, I don't know for sure.

I think that you have to accept 'minimal' sharpening when you convert the RAW files, but I think that this is not that bad.

Be aware that there are different options for RAW conversion ... you might do a search for that in the 'Post processing' forum (e.g. with 'workflow' as keyword), there's a lot of information on it. I think there's also a 'sticky' thread on this.

Some options for RAW conversion include
- ZoomBrowser
- BreezeBrowser (uses ZoomBrowser libraries, but with more options)
- PhotoShop CS plugin
- Downloader Pro
- Capture1
....

If this part of the digital image process is important for you, then a DSLR might be more interesting for you. Reason is that more DSLR users are willing to spend $$$ on conversion programs and software companies offer them. (e.g. Capture1 is not available for the G series)

Best regards,
Andy

[S45_fornow...]

S45 ... to be honest, I don't know for sure.

I think that you have to accept 'minimal' sharpening when you convert the RAW files, but I think that this is not that bad.

Be aware that there are different options for RAW conversion ... you might do a search for that in the 'Post processing' forum (e.g. with 'workflow' as keyword), there's a lot of information on it. I think there's also a 'sticky' thread on this.

Some options for RAW conversion include
- ZoomBrowser
- BreezeBrowser (uses ZoomBrowser libraries, but with more options)
- PhotoShop CS plugin
- Downloader Pro
- Capture1
....

If this part of the digital image process is important for you, then a DSLR might be more interesting for you. Reason is that more DSLR users are willing to spend $$$ on conversion programs and software companies offer them. (e.g. Capture1 is not available for the G series)

Best regards,
Andy

Yes, I've heard about and even seen a few examples of the same RAW image being sharpened differently by different version/brands of RAW conversion software.

I definately need to look into that more, but as a former G5 owner I think I will be perfectly happy with a G6 and shooting mostly in JPEG.

[Jon]

OK. guys !
I must to thibk over. 8) :lol:
BUT......
I hate one thing ! - WHY in Rebel and D70 there are NO LIVE PICTURE on LCD ??!! :x :x its absolutely terrible ! - I havnt a good control !
--in G6 my situation is comfortable.-thats the GREAT MINUS.(not talking about immovable LCD grhhhh :? 8) )

Because in the SLRs you're looking through the same lens the picture will be taken with. In order for you to see through that lens, there's a mirror in front of the shutter and sensor (which the sensor can't see through). Since you're looking through the lens, and you've got a real optical image on your focussing screen, you have a better and more detailed view of the subject than you'll ever get from the LCD on the back of the camera, let alone an electronic view finder as some high-end digital fixed-lens models. Plus, with the camera at your eye, it's braced better than one you're holding out at arms-length or even with bent elbows, so you can look at the image on the screen. So you'll get steadier pictures at slower shutter speeds.

[mikecr]

I see nobody has said anything about the 2 preset modes on the G series cameras.If you are worried about focus speed you can do like what I do and have got from past forum questions and answers.I use P mode and manualy set my focus distances.I have one set for closer range and one set for far range,when I want very fast shot and know roughly what I am shooting it is very fast firing no waiting for focus lock.The G can fire very fast if you just set it up right.You can read in this forum and learn little about all its modes and you can have one very speedy little camera.I love my G3 has been to Russia and back shot in all kinds of weather never trade it for the world although have sold to buy G6,hope don't regret to much as G6 dosen't feel as good in my hands as the G3

[45R]

You must have the biggest pockets known to mankind my friend :lol:


HAHAHAHA ever heard of BDU's :)

[Superbaldguy]

This debate could rage for years.

There are clearly advantages of any DSLR over its compact PS cousin, namely interchangeable lenses and the larger, cleaner sensor. However, if you like the smallish size of the G6, you'll find the DRebel a bit overwhelming, at first, unless you have consigned yourself to getting a proper camera bag.

Next thing, you'll want another lens, than an external flash unit - pretty soon the kit will get heavier and you may find yourself reaching more for the G6, again.

In truthfulness, the EF 18-55 zoom lnes that comes with the Rebel has a poor reputation; you''d be MUCH better off getting the EF 17-85mm IS standard zoom. I'd wager the G6's excellent 35-140mm would actually yield better images than the crappy 18-55 zoom on the Rebel.

Another caveat with DSLR's is the fact the sensor gets dirty, and cleaning it is a pain and can necessitate sending the camera to Canon for service. No such issues with the G6 or even a 35mm film SLR.

The G-series cameras are designed for portability for serious amateurs and pros that don't want to lug around a big bag of gear. After shooting film for over 20 years and having a bad back due to a heavy bag, the G6 is true liberation. To boot, the G6 is more suitable for candid shots and street-shooting than any 35mm SLR I have owned.

In summary, both the lowly compact digicam and the DSLR have a place in you photo gear family. Choose carefully!

[Andy_T]

In truthfulness, the EF 18-55 zoom lnes that comes with the Rebel has a poor reputation; you''d be MUCH better off getting the EF 17-85mm IS standard zoom. I'd wager the G6's excellent 35-140mm would actually yield better images than the crappy 18-55 zoom on the Rebel.


Actually, in the tests I've seen so far the 18-55 performed at least as good on the wide end (same sharpness, but better flare handling and less distortion) as the 17-85. The 17-85 Is is better built, but way too expensive in my opinion. Unless you specifically want to have only one lens and need the IS, there are better options:

For the same money as the 17-85, you'll get
- 18-55 + Tamron 28-75/2.8 XR DI for L sharpness and 2.8 aperture or
- 18-55 + Canon 28-135 IS for longer reach with IS

There also is a Sigma 18-125 lens, but I don't know how it compares with the 17-85.

Also, if you stop the lens down and know what you do in post-processing, the 18-55 on the DRebel will give you better images than the G6.

Best regards,
Andy

[Superbaldguy]

Too bad Canon couldn't make a decent kit lens like their main competitor........(cough!, Nikon) I guess the DRebel caters to the crowd it was intended.

From what I've read, the optical quality of the 17-85 IS lens is not in the same league as the film 28-135 IS lens model. I'm very disturbed at some of the thinking by Canon with regards to its DSLR's and optics, as the once-glorious ideas for the EOS cameras and lenses seem to be lost in this generation. I mean, why have two sets of lenses - one dedicated to the digital SLR's and the other as cross-overs from the film SLR's? Canon have created a bit of a vacuum as they seem not to be sure on how to proceed with future developments, IMHO. And this statement comes form a 20-year plus Canon shooter who defected from the manual-focus 35mm SLR to the EOS...........

Although I'm not a Nikon person, they do have better glass and the design of their DSLR's is not cheap-looking.

[4walls]

I decided to go with the Drebel with the included lens kit and a 1g flash card.It should be here in a couple of days. I am now looking at zoom lenses any suggestions? I have been looking at the EF 75-300 or the 70-200 f/4L. What would be better for the money.
Good choice on the camera... you will find for shooting sports that the DRebel
will be twice the camera than any point and shoot.

I was shooting baseball pics of my daughter this summer with a G3. I used a
1.8X teleconverter lens which looks impressive on the camera, but there is
no way you can line up shots through the viewfinder when this lens is on.
Then I had to prefocus on where I thought the action might be and WAIT.
Autofocus on these cameras tends to be quite slow. They should call these
Push and Wait cameras instead of Point and Shoot.

[rogernoel]

I haven't been on this forum in a long time, but just finished reading the discussion on the Digital Rebel and the G6. I have had the G2 for 2 1/2 years and the Digital Rebel for 7 months. I am so pleased with the Rebel and use it most of the time. I bought it because I live in Arizona and believe me none of the hoods and covers for the LCD will permit me to see the picture. Yes, I used the view finder, but I can see everything with the Rebel. BTW, the LCD does not do well in temperatures above 90C either. I have a supplemental .5 WA and a 3x Tele for the G2. They work reasonably well but nothing like the SLR. I have been taking pictures since 1946 and have a closet full of Leicax, Nikons , Canons and Pentaxs, I am totally sold on the digital concept. I have one additional lens for the Rebel. 55-200mm Ritz Camera lens. I am satisfied with it. I plan to acquire a Canon Macro lens next.

[DocFrankenstein]

Rebel for sure... No G cameras.

Get DSLR and start building your lens collection. 50/1.8 for 70 bucks and you're an addict.

Then you'll hang around in EOS forum and will know what you're doing.

It's 20 times harder to get the shot with the G cameras.

Cheers.

[sdommin]

Then you'll hang around in EOS forum and will know what you're doing.

Haha! I'm glad to know that if you want to "know what you're doing" all you have to do is buy a DSLR and hang out in the EOS forum.

Seems like a whole lot of people have that same idea!

[Andy_T]

Haha! I'm glad to know that if you want to "know what you're doing" all you have to do is buy a DSLR and hang out in the EOS forum.


Well, I can say from personal experience that at least you learn to talk about it ... ;-)

Best regards,
Andy

[bauerman]

All you have to do is look at Scott’s (sdommin) galleries once and you will know that getting a DSLR and hanging out in the EOS Forum is not the silver bullet to good photography. He has been producing top notch work for years with nothing more than a G3.

[DocFrankenstein]

Haha! I'm glad to know that if you want to "know what you're doing" all you have to do is buy a DSLR and hang out in the EOS forum.

Seems like a whole lot of people have that same idea!
Whoops. Sorry you took it personally.

I didn't know you prided yourself with producing quality work with G series camera and in to way I mean to antagonize G series vs (D)SLRs forums or threaten your ego.

The only thing meant by "know what you're doing" is "you'll know what next lens to pick" :D

Now, can I have a take a look at your G3 gallery, cause I'm all curious now :)

[bauerman]

Doc,

You can check out Scott's amazing work by simply clicking on the link in his signature. A lot of which were taken with the G3 or the Digilux 2. If you cannot see the link in Scott's signature - you need to go into your "User CP" at the top of the page and check the box "show signatures"...... He really has some stunning work.

[DocFrankenstein]

Great images. Again... in no way I meant offense or anything. :)

[Superbaldguy]

I like the idea of being able to take out a relatively compact digicam (G6 for me) and record stunning images - I've already been able to do that. You are unencumbered by the burden of a bagful of lenses, flashes, and bodies. This actually seems to allow you to put more thought in composition and be more mindful of lighting, and realizing you have to "make do" with the limitations of the built-in zoom. I think this forces you to think more about what you're doing.

I suppose the ideal situation is to own a DSLR system and a good-quality compact and use them, accordingly.

[4walls]

I decided to go with the Drebel with the included lens kit and a 1g flash card.It should be here in a couple of days. I am now looking at zoom lenses any suggestions? I have been looking at the EF 75-300 or the 70-200 f/4L. What would be better for the money.
Have you looked at Sigma's 18-125mm DC lens?

http://www.adorama.com/SG18125EOS.html

Sigma Corporation is pleased to announce the launch of the new 18-125mm F3.5-5.6 DC. This zoom lens was exclusively designed for use with digital Single-Lens Reflex (SLR) cameras and has 6.9 times high magnification zoom ratio. Image circle is designed to match the size of the image sensor of digital SLR cameras. A Special Low Dispersion (SLD) and two pieces of aspherical glass elements produce high level of optical performance through the entire zoom range and also this has resulted in a compact, lightweight lens. This lens has a minimum focusing distance of 50cm (19.6in.) at all focal lengths and equipped with inner focusing system. Since the front of the lens does not rotate, "Petal Shaped Hood" and a circular polarizing filter can be easily attached and used. This lens is also equipped with "Zoom Lock Switch" that eliminates "Zoom Creep."

[Cadenza]

Rebel for sure... No G cameras.

Get DSLR and start building your lens collection. 50/1.8 for 70 bucks and you're an addict.

Then you'll hang around in EOS forum and will know what you're doing.

It's 20 times harder to get the shot with the G cameras.

Cheers.

I disagree with this. I think that the D-Rebel
recommendation is positively not the right one
for a lot of people. To shoot with a D-SLR is a
lot more involved than even film SLRs, and
certainly a lot more involved than most people
have time or inclination for. Additionally, DSLRs
make for lousy, intrusive snapshooters.

I had formal training in college on SLR (film)
photography, and still, when I got my 10D
almost a year ago, most of my shots were
crappy for the first couple months until I was
somewhat secure in my workflow. And even
though I am very comfortable with my 10D and
lens set now, I still adamantly refuse to give up
my G-series camera; they're just that useful.

When using a DSLR, even one as basic as the
Digital Rebel, you really have to be into it, and
get involved in the process so much more.
Scott's galleries give ample evidence that you
can do serious work with these cameras (some
of his earlier favorites were done with an
Olympus C-2000), and rumor has it that he
doesn't even shoot RAW!

If someone needs to ask whether they want a
G6 or DSLR, my natural inclination (without
knowing anything else) is to say the G6: nice
pics right out of the box, and you can grow your
skills with the camera.

[DocFrankenstein]

Cadenza - I agree with you on the part of compactness and that it's a nice cam...

The initial question was about sports and moving kids. It's easier to shoot those subjects with an SLR...

Scott's galleries are beatiful and nice. I like them... but they demonstrate limitations of the G series camera:
Relatively stationary subjects because of slow(er than SLR) zoom/focus
Impossibility to create small DOF and therefore almost no portraits and mostly landscapes

DSLRs make for lousy, intrusive snapshooters.
I'm hurt. You cut me deep man, real deep. ;)

[bauerman]

I think that the G's are capable of some great portrait work - I'll have to post some to let you see what I mean......The DOF may not be as shallow as some other cams - but it is not that bad.

[DocFrankenstein]

NO need to post samples. I know... I've seen... I belieive you... I'm not arguing... :)

[bauerman]

Oh come on - I wanted to post samples - dang it! :)

[DocFrankenstein]

O father, give me light! :lol:

[rgravel]

My taughts exactly

...In other words the G6 vs Digital Rebel decision is a trade off. Only you can decide which is best for your needs.

[bachscuttler]

Filtering out the obligatory gear snobbery ('you ain't in the club unless you own a DSLR' mentality) as a newbie I found this thread very informative.

I'm saving for a DSLR and have an A95 at the moment which I know isnt even in the G6 class, and I've learned a lot from this forum regarding the pro's and cons of Compact/DSLR. The pro's seem to outweigh the cons. (I have a strong back)

Even the Rebel seems to get looked down on so my question is this:

Would I be better going for a brand new Rebel or buying a higher model second hand with appropriate lenses?

It seems the body is only half the battle and I'm going to have to invest in lenses too

[Turbowolf]

I suppose the ideal situation is to own a DSLR system and a good-quality compact and use them, accordingly.

That's my plan. I use a 20d for for all my "macro" work and the G6 for microscope work. With an adapter and the ability for short 30 second movies, it's the best of both worlds.

[Lenny_D]

I own a G3 for 2 years and a 20D since november. I've made many very beautiful pictures with the G3 which is an excellent camera indeed. Why did I go for DSLR?
- G3 lacks speed in autofocus
(I've used hyperfocal but you're always bound to a large DOF in that case)
- G3 has too much noise above ISO 100

The 20D is really FAST!! in both meanings (autofocussing as well as film speed) which really adds your ability to take pictures in practice.
With the 20D and using a fast lens you have much more possibility to play with the DOF. If you'r interested in artistic photography this is a real plus (but slightly cancelled by the absence of the the swivel LCD).
The overall picture quality, color purity and sharpness are noticebly better with the 20D, I have to say that the G3 comes surprisingly close when properly used.

As mentioned before, I do miss the preview on the swivel CCD though. It gives you the ability to make nice shots from unusual perspectives and also allows to make portraits without "distracting" people. Pointing to somebody with a big DSLR draws attention, with a G3 on your belly they hardly notice.

I will keep my G3 and use it but, the 20D is a fantastic challenge for the more serious photographer...

Lenny

-----------------------------
20D 18-55mm kit, 50mm f/1.4, 420EX flash
G3

[bauerman]

While I would love to have a DSLR to compliment my G5 - it is not in the financial cards right now. What I have found though is that my wifes film-based Elan 7E is a GREAT compliment to my digital G5. It has lightening fast autofocus, predictive focus for moving subjects, 1/4000 top shutter speed and many other things that are really nice to have. We can also share the 420EX across both platforms. This very advanced film SLR costs SIGNIFICANTLY less than it's digital couneterpart and every lens that my wife buys for her Elan could someday be used on a 20D - once I can affort it. I can use my flatbed scanner to scan in prints taken with the Elan and still get my Photoshop fix as well. You can pick up a fairly new Elan body for a couple hundred bucks and have performance never seen before even at $1000 digital price. Film is not dead and it can work out as a good compliment to a G-series cam.

[rgravel]

Film is not dead and it can work out as a good compliment to a G-series cam.

Never taught of that, but its a good point !

[jay24k]

Also add the 50mm f/1.8 lens. It's 70 bucks and it is an insane lens! It is very sharp and it's great for low light and if you have a tight budget :)

No offense to G5/6 users, but the rebel will provide better pictures. However, someone with a G6 who knows what they are doing can probably get better results then someone who has no idea with a rebel. However, the auto mode does a great job on the rebel and can take some nice action pics.

[Desmoface]

Does the rebel come with the software necessary to do post processing (ie usm)?

Steve

[bauerman]

Jay24K,

Again - I would point you back in this thread to Scott Dommin's galleries - using a G3, G2, Leica Digilux 2 and others and tell me that he could be BETTER pictures than those had he shot them with a Rebel? I think not grasshopper.........

[jay24k]

We will never know unless he uses one. But I guarentee you he could take pictures of the same quality at minimum with the rebel or any above.

Bottom line, digital rebel doesn't stop costing you after buying the camera. You are going to want more and more lenses etc. The G is an all in one shop.

[Jon]

Does the rebel come with the software necessary to do post processing (ie usm)?

Steve
Yes, it does. PhotoShop Elements.

[4walls]

Bottom line, digital rebel doesn't stop costing you after buying the camera.
You are going to want more and more lenses etc. The G is an all in one shop.

Not necessarily true... I bought the G3, then got a lens adapter, a wide angle lens, a
telephoto lens, an external flash, a bigger memory card, photoshop cs, a new camera
bag (for all the new accesories)....

There is always a way to spend more money, doesn't matter what camera you buy for
that.

[Andy_T]

I just wanted to add that after using my new 20D and Tamron 28-75/2.8 for 2 days, I have to state that it is absolutely not true that DSLR's require more workflow to get acceptable pictures and are not usable for new users.

Just the contrary ... after using my G2 for 2 years and having quite elaborated on my workflow (RAW, convert to TIFF in BreezeBrowser, post-processing in PS Elements and USM) I'm totally blown away by the results the 20D gives me directly out of the camera, large JPEG, medium everything (sharpness, colour, etc.) Not at all what I expected, but a very pleasant surprise.

No need for post-processing at all (apart from resizing, the JPEG's from the 20D are larger than the G2 RAW files). (Of course, I'll try out RAW soon ;) anyway)

Best regards,
Andy


PS: One question remains ... what did Ethan's Dad do, after all ? ;)

[4walls]

I am using RAW files from my new D70, opened in Capture One, and converted
easily into JPG or TIFF at the click of a button. Results are stunning... way
sharper than anything I saw off my G3. After using Capture One I am thinking,
"Why wouldn't everyone shoot RAW?"

[lardyl]

My two penneth...I use the D300 (rebel) pretty much daily at work (I shoot a bit - about 150 to 250 of 36 exposures a year, mainly in difficult conditions - out of doors/at fire scenes) and have the G6 for home/holidays....unless you need high (optical) quality/specialised EOS lenses then I'd go for the G6 as its easier to operate, weighs less, has a far better zoom lens than the standard (18-55mm rubbish) one on the D300 and has the tilting LCD display/movies which are pretty damn useful for those difficult shots and holdiays/days out.
Personally, I'm not impressed with the D300 (particularly the build quality and robustness) but then work used to let me have an F90X (which I wore out by shooting some 2000 to 2500 rolls of film) and an F801s. Don;t spit on me just yet as I was brought up on an A-1 which I still have and use along with a second body and a few FDs.....:D

[ray mackie]

I almost always take my G5 along with me on walks, and skiing, and hiking. I am always grateful that it is compact and out of the way. It has plenty of zoom for most needs. I never printer bigger than 8 or 9 inch prints, cuz, why would I. As far as I can tell, the images are great. For my money, portablility and compact is what counts in most situations, and for most people. If it was a big clunker, I wouldnt take if half as often. Were all different I suppose.

have fun.

Ray.can

[Nabil-A]

I second that.

[Heichel]

After 40 years of using Nikon 35's, I came into the 21st century and went digital. In my younger days, Canon photographers were my constant foes. When deciding on a digital camera, I choose Canon over Nikon because of ease of operation. My Powershot G2 just seemed to be easier to use that the Nikons. To be honest about it I probably don't need anything more that the G2 but just like in automobiles, everyone wants more horsepower. With that in mind, my next choice of digital cameras will be the Canon G6. As mony others writing in the Forum have noted, ease of operation, high quality, less extra equipment to drag around.

Just a note, when I walk into Camera Stores, I always carry a CF memory card. I can usually snap a couple of shot with any new camera. I run home and see what the images look like in Photoshop.

RhoXS

Being an old Nikon user, I took three of my very old Nikon lenses to a store and found that the lens mount was the same as my Nikon 35 as on the Nikon D70. I could not use any automation so I set the D70 on manual and proceeded to shoot away. Great images but the Camera/Lens package just felt large. I'll stick to Canon.

[Andy_T]

Heichel,

welcome to the forum!

just in case you decide to go for a larger package ... you can also use your old Nikon lenses on the DRebel with a 30$ adapter ... of course only with manual focus and only in 'A'perture priority mode. Read more here: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=57023

Best regards,
Andy

[alfisti]

Folks - I didn't see it earlier in the thread so I just have to ask....

Where can one get a Digital Rebel for $600 as stated at the beginning of the thread by Ethan's Dad??

Thanks
-Glenn

[gkjkluv1]

Hello,
I have a canon G6 and I don't know much about cameras but I usually can use it and examine it and figure it out. This camera does not make any sence to me. It's hard to use. I don't know what any of those options are above the AUTO option. I think the C means custom? I tried to figure out the flash setting but they all look the same to me. I originaly wanted a Rebel. My brother has a ordinary film one and I can use it. It's not hard at all. What I want to know is if I trade my G6 in for the Rebel would it be easier for me to understand and use? Do I HAVE to buy other lenses and flashes for it? When I use the G6 on any mode w/o the flash and the subject I'm taking a picture of moves there all blury. I love the way the pictures look w/o using the flash but in most cercumstances I don't have a choice. Is there anyone out there willing to help me with either figuring out my G6 or guiding me in getting the Rebel? Thank you! :)

[DocFrankenstein]

Hello,
I have a canon G6 and I don't know much about cameras but I usually can use it and examine it and figure it out. This camera does not make any sence to me. It's hard to use. I don't know what any of those options are above the AUTO option. I think the C means custom? I tried to figure out the flash setting but they all look the same to me. I originaly wanted a Rebel. My brother has a ordinary film one and I can use it. It's not hard at all. What I want to know is if I trade my G6 in for the Rebel would it be easier for me to understand and use? Do I HAVE to buy other lenses and flashes for it? When I use the G6 on any mode w/o the flash and the subject I'm taking a picture of moves there all blury. I love the way the pictures look w/o using the flash but in most cercumstances I don't have a choice. Is there anyone out there willing to help me with either figuring out my G6 or guiding me in getting the Rebel? Thank you! :)

Get the Digital rebel... it is easier to use...

And you don't REALLY have to buy lenses and flashes, but you might someday.

They also don't have to be expensive. You can get a nice flash for 20 bucks and a 50mm lens for 70

Get the rebel, it's much more of a camera than the G series.

(ducks)

[lefturn99]

Man, I'm gone for a week and look at the fun I miss.

Let's see. I'm looking at two cars. A new Corolla and a used Lexus. They are about the same price. Which is better?

And gkjkluv1, let's see. I don't know how to drive my Corolla. If I get a Lexus, will I be a better driver?

[DocFrankenstein]

And gkjkluv1, let's see. I don't know how to drive my Corolla. If I get a Lexus, will I be a better driver?
Do you automatically assume that his cranial capacity won't allow him to use the advantages of lexus to his benefit or do you have a reason for doing so? ;)

[lefturn99]

Yes

[gkjkluv1]

Thank you for your help!

[gkjkluv1]

Man, I'm gone for a week and look at the fun I miss.

Let's see. I'm looking at two cars. A new Corolla and a used Lexus. They are about the same price. Which is better?

And gkjkluv1, let's see. I don't know how to drive my Corolla. If I get a Lexus, will I be a better driver?
Does this mean I should figure out how to use any camera before I decide which one to get? Would you recommend a class? Thank you

[lefturn99]

What I meant was that if you don't know the principles of photography, the extra features of a high end camera would be somewhat moot. Since you sound like you are willing to learn, that changes things. I took classes at the local camera shop. I also read everything I could, from books to magazines and forums like this one. And I have shot thousands of pictures. If you have been looking at this forum awhile, you probably have seen a recommendation for the "Short Course" books.

The G6 is an excellent camera to learn with. I am taking an intermediate course in photography. I am the only one with a point and shoot. But it has many of the features that dSLRs have. To learn photography, I wouldn't bother with extra lenes for the G6, but I would recommend an external flash.

Once you learn to control exposure, ISO, etc., you may want to upgrade to, maybe an XT.

[lardyl]

Get the Digital rebel... it is easier to use...

And you don't REALLY have to buy lenses and flashes, but you might someday.

They also don't have to be expensive. You can get a nice flash for 20 bucks and a 50mm lens for 70

Get the rebel, it's much more of a camera than the G series.

(ducks)
(fires) how is it easier to use? - except that the zoom ring and manual focus on the lens is easier to push and "feel" where you are than the lever on the G6?? (but that comes with shooting loads of images and knowing what sort of focal length/zoom you need to start with - I naturally shove the zoom anticlockwise when I am shooting a room and clockwise when doing a close-up).
beleive me the standard lens on the D300 is rubbish (as I said I shoot 100+ shots a week with the thing for work), there is a better lens on the G6, far more useful for portraiture or in low light conditions.
If you want to learn photography buy a fixed focal length point and shoot or a film camera with a 50mm lens and go create, forget digital as you shoot too much and learn too little.....although being able to preview the shot is useful (at times).....
One bad point though is the shutter lag - none-existent on the D300 and can be half a second on the G6 - so candids/kid shots are better on the SLR (suprise suprise....)

[DocFrankenstein]

(fires) how is it easier to use?
the zoom ring and manual focus on the lens is easier to push and "feel" where you are than the lever on the G6??

One bad point though is the shutter lag - none-existent on the D300 and can be half a second on the G6 - so candids/kid shots are better on the SLR (suprise suprise....)
:)

[lardyl]

:)yep but balance that against the awful lag of the display (the G6 shows a contact strip type set of images in *what appears* much less than half the time), the poor range and brightness of the standard lens, the consistent underexposure of the D300, the inaccurate brightness of the display (so the images look correctly exposed when not), the plasticy feel of the D300, the flimsy pop-up flash, the rubbishy programs and poor flash handling, etc etc
the G6 is a better buy IMHO for someone who wants to take a camera out and about and use it for general shots/use.
shutter lag is the same for most P&S cameras vs SLRs (as in my old Yashica T5 vs A-1s) but its not an issue for lots of photographs, eg landscape, architectural, macro, etc etc. - as the original poster wanted to photograph sports/fast moving kids - so an SLR is almost always going to win. ;)
Personally, if I had to choose, I'd throw away my D300 (chosen by others and imposed on me) and keep the G6 (with the 58mm ring adapter and 550EX speedlight of course).
To prove that, I could use the work camera for personal stuff and take it on holidays but I'd rather rely on the G6 for all that and me old A-1s for proper photography.....B&W, macro, etc :lol:

[lefturn99]

Wow, if it's that bad, it's a wonder they sold so many of them. I love my G6, but to say it's better than a dREB,...........

[lardyl]

Wow, if it's that bad, it's a wonder they sold so many of them. I love my G6, but to say it's better than a dREB,...........its cheap...and I'm picky/spoilt and resentful that my F90X (N-90) was replaced by a lightweight plastic "rebel"....maybe I'm just SAD??? :oops:

[rklepper]

I am looking to upgrade the family camera. I have a active two year old son and a very slow point and shoot kodak digital camera. I want grow my photographic abilty as my son develops ie football, baseball. I am also interested in a camera for photos at sporting events ( big Vols fan).
I am considering the G6 and the Rebel I have priced both on line for around 600.00. Any help would be appreciated.

Once you said that you wanted to grow your ability, the choice becomes crystal clear. The drebel.
Only a DSLR will give you to utmost flexibility, both now and in the future.

[zakabog]

I decided to go with the Drebel with the included lens kit and a 1g flash card.It should be here in a couple of days. I am now looking at zoom lenses any suggestions? I have been looking at the EF 75-300 or the 70-200 f/4L. What would be better for the money.

Did ANYONE read that? There's 5 pages debating which camera is better and he already has a Rebel (which he announced on the 1st page), stop arguing about which one is better. Lets pretend the original question never came up and his only question was "Which lens is better for the money?"

[lefturn99]

Amen