Explain aperture and shutterspeed difference to a newbie pls

[Grifter730]

Let me preface this by saying that I'm very new to photography. I've read my camera manual (Digital Rebel), I've looked up all the terms I'm confused about, and I'm also currently reading a book on digital photography. Also, if you can answer ANY of these questions at all, I'd be grateful.

For some reason, I still can't grasp how some things work, such as aperture and shutterspeed. Shutterspeed seems to control, well, the speed of the shutter opening and closing. Aperture controls how big of a hole is seeping thru to the camera. In a dumbed-down version of explanation, do I have this right so far?

My questions are (assuming that I'm correct so far):
1. how do you guys know what to set both of these at? I'm using an "AV mode", which basically allows me to manually set the aperture, while the camera sets the shutterspeed. Okay, so I look thru the viewfinder, and I'm toying around with the main dial to set the aperture. The problem is, the numbers are changing, yet I have no clue how it'll turn out to be? So does this mean that as you get more experienced, you just basically get used to knowing what aperture to set it at? Or am I supposed to be able to get a "preview" to be able to see what the final image will look like?

2. I know that the -2.1.\/.1.2+ allows me to change the exposure. Again, my question is, do you just know when to adjust this as you become more familiar? In the books I'm reading, they give several examples as to when these become useful, so do you just get used to making mistakes until you finally understand how the lighting works?

3. What exactly does a "depth of field" preview button do? I press it while playing around, and all it seems to do is quickly darken the image that I see through the viewfinder. I don't really get if it does anything.

4. And lastly, what exactly does the AE/FE lock do? I can't seem to understand how this affects everything else in relation to the shutterspeed, aperture, etc.

Again, any help would be great.

[robertwgross]

Probably the best advice is to sign up for a photography class at a local community college or adult education program. Sometimes they have classes in composition, traditional photography, or digital photography.

Beyond that, there are plenty of resources on-line that cover basics.

Otherwise, we are going to be typing pages and pages here.

---Bob Gross---

[Grifter730]

Probably the best advice is to sign up for a photography class at a local community college or adult education program. Sometimes they have classes in composition, traditional photography, or digital photography.

Beyond that, there are plenty of resources on-line that cover basics.

Otherwise, we are going to be typing pages and pages here.

---Bob Gross---

Fair enough. Here's a much simpler question (I think). When I'm in the playback mode using the Rebel, sometimes when I take a picture and I'm looking at the info, a certain section of the picture starts blinking. For instance, I took a picture of my kitchen, and the white neon light coming from above is in the picture, and when I'm looking at the info screen, the part where the light is starts blinking. What is this telling me, AND what do I do about it?

[Radtech1]

Let me preface this by saying that I'm very new to photography. I've read my camera manual (Digital Rebel), I've looked up all the terms I'm confused about, and I'm also currently reading a book on digital photography. Also, if you can answer ANY of these questions at all, I'd be grateful.

For some reason, I still can't grasp how some things work, such as aperture and shutterspeed. Shutterspeed seems to control, well, the speed of the shutter opening and closing. Aperture controls how big of a hole is seeping thru to the camera. In a dumbed-down version of explanation, do I have this right so far?

I couldn't have said it better myself

My questions are (assuming that I'm correct so far):
1. how do you guys know what to set both of these at?

Experience and doing it wrong lots of times. I REALLY REALLY REALLY recommend that you set up some shots and take them at varous settings to see what happens when you do X, Y or Z. Go out back to the patio table, and just set 9 things on the table. Set the camera up on a tripod and shoot down the long axis of the table. When you shoot, make notes on the various settings - like this:

Shot 1 - f22 - 1/30th second.
Shot 2 - f16 - 1/125th second.
Shot 3 - f5.6 - 1/500th second.
Shot 4 - fx.x (whatever the smallest # is) - 1/2000th sec

Then print these and look at them. Compare them to your notes. Take another set of your car in the street. And another set and so on and so on.

What you will find is that the tiny apeture (Big f-number) will make everything on the table, from this end to that, in focus. The small apeture will make only the one thing you focused on in focus. Where you need the experience is seeing, in your mind, how you want the shot to turn out.


I'm using an "AV mode", which basically allows me to manually set the aperture, while the camera sets the shutterspeed. Okay, so I look thru the viewfinder, and I'm toying around with the main dial to set the aperture. The problem is, the numbers are changing, yet I have no clue how it'll turn out to be? So does this mean that as you get more experienced, you just basically get used to knowing what aperture to set it at?

AV is MY sort of "default" mode. When I am shooting I usually want the subject isolated, (that is, the only thing in focus) so I set a low f-number. The problem is that I loose a lot of shots when the focus is comes out wrong. It is a trade off, but one that, based on my experience and intent, I am willing to take. Sometimes, though, the situation calls for a specific shutter speed. Then I go to TV mode.

Or am I supposed to be able to get a "preview" to be able to see what the final image will look like? What exactly does a "depth of field" preview button do? I press it while playing around, and all it seems to do is quickly darken the image that I see through the viewfinder. I don't really get if it does anything.

Yes, it does darken the image. That is the unavoidable result of restricting the light flow into the camera. What ELSE it does is previews the Depth of Field. Go back to the patio table example. Put another column in your notes for "Impressions" - Before you take the shot, hold the DOF Preview button and jot down what you see. Something like, "No Change" (expected at large aperture), or "Everything is Sharp" or, "Sharp to mustard bottle, blurry beyond." Trust me, once you know what to look for, you will see it.

2. I know that the -2.1.\/.1.2+ allows me to change the exposure. Again, my question is, do you just know when to adjust this as you become more familiar? In the books I'm reading, they give several examples as to when these become useful, so do you just get used to making mistakes until you finally understand how the lighting works?

I almost always shoot at -0.5 to -1.0

Because digital does not have the dynamic range that film does (the difference between the lightest light this side of white and the darkest dark this side of black), I have to make a decision. I choose to shoot just a little dark, because, if you blow (overexpose) the lights, you cannot recover them. If it is too dark, then you can lighten the image with software because the data is still there. Just personal preference - you will have to find what works best for you.


4. And lastly, what exactly does the AE/FE lock do? I can't seem to understand how this affects everything else in relation to the shutterspeed, aperture, etc.

I am going to cheat here, and paste in something that I found on the Web. This is for the 10D, but I assume it works on the DReb as well. (DReb owners correct me if I am wrong, please). Basically, the AE/FE lock is a way of communicating with the camera. You are telling it when, during the "pushing the button" process, you want to commit to the exposure and focus. Here is the paste:

Shutter button/AE lock button has four settings that control how the shutter and AE-FE Lock button marked with the asterisk (*) work. These combinations determine how and when focus (AF) and exposure (AE) are locked:

0: AE/AF lock—Pressing the shutter button halfway down locks exposure and focus. Pressing AE-FE Lock locks exposure.
1: AE lock/AF—Pressing the shutter button halfway down locks exposure. Pressing AE-FE Lock locks focus.
2: AE/AF lock, no AE lock—In AI Servo AF mode, pressing AE-FE Lock temporarily locks focus when an object passes in front of the camera so focus isn't affected. Exposure is set when the exposure is made.
3: AE/AF, no AE lock—In AI Servo AF mode, pressing AE-FE Lock starts or stops focusing. Exposure is set when the exposure is made. This option is useful when photographing a subject that repeatedly stops and starts.

Hope that helped,

Rad

[Grifter730]

Hope that helped

Dude, that helped a lot!!! :D I'm gonna do all those examples you give to test things out. That's basically what I needed to hear I guess. I have taken literally hundreds of shots with this camera, but I've never really written anything down because I figure it's all in there if I just push the "info" button anyway. I've been contemplating doing it, but I wasn't sure if it really would help. Dunno, I guess I just needed someone who's experienced it to just tell me that it just takes experience and making lots of mistakes, which is what I kinda figured. Anyway, I'm excited now, can't wait to test things out :) Your other explanations also helped me understand some of those things a bit better. I'll just have to look at my notes and read up on your explanations along with the manuals, etc once I take all those sample shots. Thanks again!

[robertwgross]

When I'm in the playback mode using the Rebel, sometimes when I take a picture and I'm looking at the info, a certain section of the picture starts blinking. For instance, I took a picture of my kitchen, and the white neon light coming from above is in the picture, and when I'm looking at the info screen, the part where the light is starts blinking. What is this telling me, AND what do I do about it?

Bottom of page 87 in the manual.

You did read it, didn't you?

---Bob Gross---

[Grifter730]

Bottom of page 87 in the manual.

You did read it, didn't you?

I did, but there's soooo many sections of the manual that deals with "this will start blinking" that I didn't know where to look for it. Go figure it's in the "image information" section :roll:

For what it's worth, while I was taking that shot I mentioned earlier, I did try to shoot it with a negative amount of exposure, and it was still overexposed. On top of that, the rest of the kitchen looked extremely dark (as expected), which really didn't help. So do you guys EVER keep images even though certain areas (such as sources of bright lights) are obviously overexposed? Because the way I see it, the kitchen picture I took looks almost exactly the way I see it in real life. So even though my camera thinks it's overexposed, I think it looks right. Is this just my eyes fooling me, or is the camera correct and I'm wrong?

[robertwgross]

I recommend that you sign up for a photography class in a local community college or adult education center. There is a lot to learn.

The sensor in a camera is not the same as your eyeball, and it can't handle the same dynamic range. An experienced photographer can see these kinds of basics through the optical viewfinder, and he can make good guesses about what will end up on the sensor and into the digital image file. Similarly, your human brain has its own concepts about what is being seen. It will mask things that it is not looking for. The camera doesn't have that capability. What you point the lens and focus on will be what shows on the image file (within reason).

---Bob Gross---

[nosquare2003]

Human eyes are very sophisticated compared to machines (camera sensor). And they are not the same. As Bob said, dynamic range is one of the differences. The camera cannot handle a high contrast situation. The camera either over-exposes some part of the kitchen or under-exposes the other part in your situation. Alternatively, there are some tools to lower the contrast, e.g. flash (or other artificial light), reflector, diffuser, graduated ND filters…Or you can do software adjustment…

And human brain tends to ignore some of the scene. When you see some beautiful things, you will ignore some other things. But when you take a photo, all unwanted stuff in the scene will come out. (Actually, Bob has already written this). So how would you do to isolate the subject from unwanted stuff? It can be done by narrow depth of field, composition, lighting contrast…while aperture setting is one important part in control of depth of field.

The effects of moving action in human brain are also very different from in photos. Try shooting actions in fast shutter speed and also very slow shutter speed. It will be fun.

Moreover, our brain can sense three dimensions but a photo will show 2D. You may also have to find out how to express the distance of different objects in a 2D photo, vice versa.

There are some other differences in human brain vs photos, like white balance, distortion, etc. I agree with Bob that we need to write pages to answer your question. But I hope that I can provide some little ideas to you.

[robertwgross]

So how would you do to isolate the subject from unwanted stuff? It can be done by narrow depth of field, composition, lighting contrast?while aperture setting is one important part in control of depth of field.

I never, ever discuss depth of field to a complete beginner! It just confuses them worse.

I've found it best for a beginner to shoot a good camera in the fullest automatic mode, and then slowly work toward the semi-automatic/creative modes. Along the road of manipulating aperture, suddenly a difference in focus begins to show. So, if you call it "depth of focus" it will begin to sink in. Then tell them to call it "depth of field" instead. Otherwise, their eyes start to glaze over.

---Bob Gross---

[nosquare2003]

Bob, you may be right. I've just forgotten how I learn these things...

[robertwgross]

When I teach a subject, I pay attention to what I am teaching. Additionally, if in person, I pay close attention to the student. I watch to see if they "get it" and whether I have their full attention. I especially watch to see how quickly or how slowly my presentation is absorbed. If I try a new explanation and it is absorbed slowly, or not at all, then I better change my technique. Further, I try to know something about each student before we start. I might try one type of explanation on an engineer, and I might try a completely different one on a soccer-mom. One way for a left-brain student, and another way for a right-brain student.

If you were trying to teach Canon digital photography to a student, would you rather teach to an old film shooter, or would you rather teach to a young punk computer whiz? Certain aspects of the whole subject will be easy for each type of student, and each will have to learn something different.

By the same token, each student needs to find out what type of education or training works best for them. Some prefer to sit in a traditional classroom. Some simply read and study off the web. Some need to be hands-on with one tutor. Some can read out of a paper book. For Canon digital photography, most learn best with a combination of all of these types.

---Bob Gross---

[Radtech1]

So how would you do to isolate the subject from unwanted stuff? It can be done by narrow depth of field, composition, lighting contrast?while aperture setting is one important part in control of depth of field.

I never, ever discuss depth of field to a complete beginner! It just confuses them worse.

I've found it best for a beginner to shoot a good camera in the fullest automatic mode, and then slowly work toward the semi-automatic/creative modes. Along the road of manipulating aperture, suddenly a difference in focus begins to show. So, if you call it "depth of focus" it will begin to sink in. Then tell them to call it "depth of field" instead. Otherwise, their eyes start to glaze over.

---Bob Gross---

But he specifically ASKED about depth of field. What should we do? Tell him, "Nope, Aint gonna tell ya. Photographers secret, gotta prove yourself worthy on full auto first." - Awfully elitist attitude there. I always recomend that one starts full manual to see the cause and effect relationship between what they do and what they get.

Rad

[aam1234]

Just pasted this link (http://www.shortcourses.com/) in another thread a minute ago. Reading it will get somebody on his/her feet quickly, I know it did to me.

[Grifter730]

Just pasted this link (http://www.shortcourses.com/) in another thread a minute ago. Reading it will get somebody on his/her feet quickly, I know it did to me.

Been reading that same link since yesterday actually, but thanks :)
Thanks to everyone too, no need to get into an argument over it. I've decided to do what you guys said, taking picture in basic mode, and then I also take some in AV, TV, etc just to see the differences. I'm also gonna start jotting down notes over the differences in each setting, etc. I actually do understand what depth of field in, what I don't really understand is how it's being affected I guess. But anyway, plenty of time to learn all that. I just came back from a walk in a park and I took lots of pictures. Hopefully some will turn out pretty cool.

Thanks to everyone who posted, I really appreciate it.

[Grifter730]

Well, here's the results of my walk in the park, just click on album 6:
http://www.skycastlestudios.com/photos/index.html (If the images ever appear off the screen, just go to the previous image or the next image, and then go back, it should be fixed. If they're ALL off-screen, then I dunno, I'm still testing things out, and one of my friend can't seem to get any of the images to be shown in the middle.)

I know these shots look newbie, but I'm so proud of them. Almost none of them are even touched up with Photoshop, which is something I'm really proud of. I'm so happy :)

As you might or might not be able to tell (since these images are shrunk down), almost none of my shots are perfectly focused. So here's the most basic of all basic questions: how the heck do I get my shots to be very crisp? I'm using the "basic mode" in some of these shots, where the shutterspeed is set automatically, and they're still not crisp when shown in full size....

NOTE: Album 1 and 2 were shot with a FujiFilm FinePix A205; albums 3, 4, and 5 were shot with a Minolta dImage 5.