Need help for prom photos.

[staceygt]

First off let me begin by saying I never seem to have good luck using my flash. Never. I'm much, much better at window light, or better yet outside photos. I plan on setting up and doing posed photos with a backdrop and then later doing a few candid shots.

Here's what I have:

40D
24-70 2.8
580 EX II
Flash bracket
LumiQuest pocket bouncer----not sure if I should use it.


Here's what I am thinking......please let me know if my thinking is wrong on anything. I never really know what to do with the flash, so that is looks natural (well, as natural as a flash can be). Also, how do I make sure I don't get shadows??

ISO----100
Shutter.... 1/100th or faster
Aperture...f/8 or so (will that be good enough if I have several people in the shot?)
Flash.....ETTL ?????? straight on or bounced with LumiQuest pocket bouncer?

I also have a 430 EX and a transmitter if I wanted to try 2 flashes, but I'm not sure how fancy I want to get. If it seems like that would be far better, let me know.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[sdipirro]

For Prom-age subjects, you can probably shoot at 1/60 if you need to or 1/125 if you're worried about some movement. Number of people in the shot doesn't matter so much as far as what aperture you use, but that depends on how they're standing. If they're standing shoulder to shoulder in the same focal plane, you could get away with a shallower depth of field. If they're in rows, then you may need f8 or more. I'd try the pocket bouncer. It depends on the room and where they're standing or sitting. You can also use the diffuser or one of the bounce cards and try some different lighting effects. It's pretty quick to swap between them and try a few things. All of this shooting should be in M mode, where you explicitly set the shutter speed and aperture and with the flash in ETTL mode. The main problem you might have with your gear is that 24mm might not be wide enough if the room is small and subjects take up a lot of room (Are teenagers getting bigger and bigger, or am I shrinking?). Otherwise, you should be able to get some great shots with that equipment.

[sdipirro]

I forgot that you have a second flash at your disposal. I'm assuming you have a stand for it and maybe an umbrella? For group shots, it may be a real advantage to have a second flash available, and you can play with different ratios of lighting to keep shadows where you want them and remove unwanted ones.

[staceygt]

I forgot that you have a second flash at your disposal. I'm assuming you have a stand for it and maybe an umbrella? For group shots, it may be a real advantage to have a second flash available, and you can play with different ratios of lighting to keep shadows where you want them and remove unwanted ones.

No, I don't have any stands or umbrellas here (they are in my other place in Oklahoma). I'm pretty much just having to make do with what I have.

Should I keep the 580 on the camera w/the flash bracket and bouncer? Or, have it off to the side? If I keep it on the camera where would the background light (430) go? Centered? How high?

Thanks again.

[sdipirro]

Sorry it took me a while to make the round-trip back here! It's hard to answer these questions without knowing anything about the location, number of kids, etc... But since it sounds like you haven't done a lot of flash work and haven't had great results in the past, I'm going to suggest keeping it simple...so that even if the lighting isn't perfect, you still get some nice shots. If you're shooting your child and his/her date, the single 580 on the camera with the 80/20 bounce should achieve good results if the room has relatively normal ceilings. Have the subjects stand away from the wall by 6 feet or so and angle yourself so that any shadows fall behind them. Shoot in M mode and set the shutter speed to 1/125, aperture to f5.6 (play with this up and down), and ISO 100. If the room has really high ceilings, use the white bounce card. If you want to try the second light, look at where any unwanted shadows are falling, based on the configuration of the room, subjects, and where you're standing. Put the second light where it can illuminate the background to remove the shadows, to one side or the other or even behind the subjects. You said you have a transmitter, and I'm assuming it's the Canon ST-E2. If you want to get adventurous and put both the 580 and 430 off-camera and use the ST-E2 to trigger both, you probably want to experiment with this beforehand. You'd probably use the 580 as your "main light" at, say, a 45-degree angle and then use the 430 again as a background/fill light. There are numerous examples on this site for 2-light setups that might apply, but it takes some practice to get this right. I know I'm still working on it! If you don't have time to practice with off-camera lighting, I'd suggest you keep it simple to get good shots that might not have perfect lighting.

[Heap64]

I have a 580EX II and a 430EX as well.. For nice basic portrait lighting I have been using the 430EX as the main light off camera say 45 degree's off subject. Even though you don't have a stand, you might be able to use the little stand included with the flashes if you have a place to set it? Then I have been using the 580EX II at or near the camera as fill. This is pretty simple to setup and gives a nicer look than a single flash. Ettl ratios work ok but can have mixed results in my experience. I usually have to set +2/3 FEC on the camera. Lately I have started shooting completely manual with better results. Get there early and take some test shots.

[Mr. Clean]

Start practicing right now. I mean right now. Lighting can be hard to learn. Check the Strobist blog, find a local camera shop with at least a cheap stand and umbrellla and maybe a reflector.
Seriously, that will make your mugshots look like headshots. You'll be amazed at the difference. The "natural" look comes from the flash being bounced or diffused.
You're only other option is bouncing. What is the area like that you are shooting in? Room size? Ceiling height?

[staceygt]

Thanks so much for all of your help. The school is nice and new. I'll probably shoot in the hall, which is pretty wide and has high (12 feet maybe?) ceilings. The kids will set up the backdrop (I have no idea what it is) the night before the prom. I'll have a day to play with things before the prom starts. I imagine I will do mostly couples, but a few shots with 3 or 4 friends too. I don't think there will be too many shots of large groups.

I am starting to practice now too. If I can do it with one flash on camera and not have shadows, I'll do that. Otherwise, I might leave one flash on camera with the little bouncer attached and have the other one on the background. Yes, I do have the little stands that came with the flashes so, I can rig something up.

I am in a little Eskimo village in Alaska. Anything I do will be great and the kids will love it. They very rarely have quality photos taken of themselves. I just want to do the best I can for them. I'm having to make do with what I have here. There is no quick run to the store. I am two plane rides and a few hundred miles from the closest camera store. Crazy!

[parshooter]

Got batteries? Don't forget to have plenty of spares and a fully charged camera.

Can you get into the location ahead of time to test your settings, with a model or two? This would save you a lot of stress at the event.

Good luck with it.

[ust82gopher]

Stacey,

I am a hobbyist who after a lot of help here, am getting pretty decent with flash. Here is a representative prom grand march photo from a week or so ago.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m184/ust82gopher/Unknown.jpg

Here is the settings:

5D on M using 24-105 L lense. Setting at f/6.3 at 1/125 second and iso 400. Flash mounted on bracket with FEC +2/3. Sof-ten diffuser on flash and shot straight on (no bounce)

This basic set up has worked pretty well for me in this type of indoor setting. The 1/125 gives me some background light which coupled with the flash bracket help me control shadows. I just prefer less bokeh, so I typically go between 5.6 - 8.0.

Batteries are HUGE! I used my Quantum Battery pack to insure quick recycle time as I shot all 78 couples (3-4 shots each). I realize that you don't have that, so I would make sure that you had 2 sets of full charged Lithium batteries and change over half way through the shoot.

Good luck and have lots of fun!

Tim

[staceygt]

I have plenty of batteries for the flashes, but I only have the one battery in my transmitter. I'm not sure how much life it has left in it, so I'll need to be ready to skip the 2 flash plan if that battery fails. The good news is this is a tiny school, so there won't be too many kids at all, maybe about 30 kids.

[sdipirro]

This picture actually provides a good point of reference for different types of settings. Like maybe you'd like to blur out some of the clutter in the background. You could shoot at f2.8 and probably keep the kids in focus and maybe blur the pictures on the wall (and shoot at ISO 100 instead of 400). You could potentially have a second light off to camera right or behind the subjects to remove the shadows there. I'd also find a place less cluttered for them to stand. I like symmetry and would center them with that white archway if I want that in the picture. I also like my subjects to be looking in the same direction and preferably at me! Still, there's something to be said for capturing that uncomfortable look on the faces of these prom teens! And this wasn't meant to be a C&C of this particular prom picture - just using it as a means to an end and how one might achieve different results under the same conditions.

[ust82gopher]

Here is one that was posed, outdoor at dusk, same night.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m184/ust82gopher/ba80fd20.jpg

Settings: 5D, 24-105 L, f/6.3 at Shutter Speed 1/13 at ISO 400. Flash on bracket, Sto-Fen on with +1 1/3 FEC. Obviously, no bounce.

By slowing the shutter down so much, I was able to get the background lighting to come through and still get the couple properly exposed.

In retrospect, I should have changed the aperture to f/4 and tried to get a little more blur of the background skyline. Plus, ISO 100 would have helped get even more background light. But it was an on the fly shot which really pleased the couple (and their moms!!)

Tim

[sdipirro]

Tim, I like this second shot a lot..and if this was handheld at 1/13, congrats on that! You have steadier hands than I do. I like the background the way it is, personally. She's a little better lit than he is, but otherwise, this is a great shot. I forgot to mention in the first shot that the 80/20 bounce in that situation may have eliminated some of those shadows...enough that a second light may not be necessary.

[ust82gopher]

Thanks for the compliment. I think this is one of my best flash photos ever.

It was so cold on the balcony that my hands froze - made it easier to hand hold at 1/13!!

Back to the original photo. The Prom was in a museum with the dance in a conference area. That meant the grand march was in an exhibit area! There was art hanging from the ceilings and all over the walls. It was tough to find a place to shoot without getting reflection back at me.

I originally had my 430EX behind the arch at 1/4 power and the test shots were great. But then other parents started shooting, firing my 430 EX in the process! Quickly shut it off and moved to plan B. (Note to self - rob bank to get $$ for Pocket Wizards!!!)

Which is a good point for Stacey - that second flash behind the couples at ~ 1/4 power has been really good to me for getting rid of shadows.