NEXT CANON POWERSHOT PRO CAMERA

[Canonshooter]

Hi, and happy holidays to all. Does anyone have any hints or ideas or speculations as to what the next powershot pro camera will be like?


Thanks,
Art

[sdommin]

I don't have any inside knowledge about what Canon is planning, but here are some "wishes" for the Pro-2:

- A manual zoom control
- Do something about the excessive CA, even if you need to get a smaller CCD (less megapixels :shock: )
- Some filter threads on the lens, so you don't need a funky adapter
- IS would be nice (might be asking too much, though).

Any other wishes out there? My guess is the the next model is just now being finalized, and will come out next spring (just conjecture by what Canon has done in the past).

[MrChad]

Now that we have the Drebel do we really need a Pro2?

I mean you can get a Drebel and a Tamron-Sigma 28-200mm for about the same price as the original Pro1 back in the day.

And now with the G6 being out, I'm not sure the slightly smaller size of the Pro1 is needed vs. a Dslr.

I think I'd rather have a comsumer Dslr with a flip out LCD, even if the preview could only be for a few seconds before the picture. Kinda like the new Fuji S3 Pro.

[sdommin]

Now that we have the Drebel do we really need a Pro2?

I mean you can get a Drebel and a Tamron-Sigma 28-200mm for about the same price as the original Pro1 back in the day.

I think I'd rather have a comsumer Dslr with a flip out LCD, even if the preview could only be for a few seconds before the picture. Kinda like the new Fuji S3 Pro.

There is definately an advantage to having a real, live preview (something that DSLRs don't have. Even the Fuji's preview was described by DPReview as "pointless", and I would agree). Therefore, there will be a need for cameras like the G6, Pro-2, etc. Not everyone needs a DSLR.

[gtg]

Not everyone needs a DSLR.
I am with u on this one.

But i would like Pro series to have smooth images in higher ISO considering the price difference between Pro1 and the 300D.

[bauerman]

I will always be looking for the prosumer model with a the flip out and twist LCD, very low shutter lag and an autofocus that would make the 20D shake in it's boots!

Am I in pipe dream land here?

[Superbaldguy]

Check this out if you own the Pro 1: http://www.canon.co.jp/Imaging/pspro1/firmware-e.html

[dbump]

I'm with Bauerman, and hoping it's not a pipe dream.
I'd like to see a hybrid between prosumer and DSLR:
Fixed lens (less bulk)
Fast auto focus (optical phase-detection, not electronic contrast-detection)
Twist LCD with a higher resolution (VGA, like newer PDA's) display
Small CCD sensor & advanced noise reduction (purely cost)

Plus the growing list of things Canon should do: live histogram, threaded lens, DNG raw format...

[ScottK]

Small CCD sensor? By all accounts, wouldn't that increase noise? Or do you "small" as in small megapixel count?

How about an EOS CMOS sensor in a PRO/G class of point and shoot?

[dbump]

Sorry to be unclear: I meant a 1/1.8 sensor, like the G6--or similar sized.
Sure, I'd love a full-frame sensor, but not at current pricing!
Maybe I should have said "As large a sensor as can be sold for less than $1500"?
Absolutely, smaller sensors (currently) mean more noise--there's a reason the G6 doesn't go to ISO1600. I'd be happy with improvements in the anti-noise algorithm, and an ISO800 that performs like the G6's 400.

That is, I'm not asking for 20D functionality in a G-sized package. That's probably not realistic yet. I'd like to see a model that makes sacrifices, but also includes some of the advanced features (esp. DSLR-speed autofocus, and manual, mechanically coupled focus).

[ScottK]

I didn't even mean a full sized sensor. Just the same sensor as the 300D. They're obviously able to produce that camera at well under $1000. Seems to me like a G/Pro type body and fixed lens (maybe with a second model with the S1 IS lens - pick a large aperature, or an extended zoom) with the 300D sensor would absolutely decimate the competition.

Oh, and take the G7 back to a black metal body. :)

[ScottK]

Sorry to be unclear: I meant a 1/1.8 sensor, like the G6--or similar sized.

I knew something seemed off here, but thought maybe I didn't know, so I went and looked up the exact sensor sizes on DPReview:

G5/6 - 1/1.8 " (7.18 x 5.32 mm)
Pro1 - 2/3" (8.80 x 6.60 mm)

The Pro1 has a bigger sensor. (That fractional representation with decimal numbers in the denominator gets really confusing.) Which should, in theory, equate to lower noise, though they bumped up the pixel count, so I don't know off the top of my head if that makes the Pro1 more or less dense than the G6.

I'm no engineer, so I can only go by the results I see, but it seems to me that CCDs will always be noisier than CMOS. (I'm probably totally wrong on some theoretical level, I can only judge the results.) Even comparing D70 (which has a CCD sensor) pics to the 300D at DPReview, the 300D clearly has less noise.

But regardless of how they get there, I think both of us (all of us!) have the same dream: 300D level noise in a fixed lens camera. :)

[dbump]

Re: shared dream, exactly! A much more succinct way to put it, too.

I didn't know it had a 2/3 sensor! I do wish manufacturers would abandon the arcane fractions for sensor size, and just list square mm. It's one thing to look at those two measurements and think that the G6 is about 1 mm smaller in each dimension--it's entirely another to look at them as 38mm^2 and 58mm^2, respectively. </rant>

[pradeep1]

One day, Canon engineers will learn to read English and start browsing these forums for hallowed advice. They will then bring about the perfect camera. A category killer. No, not even that, a camera so perfect, everyone, including Nikon users, will declare it being as such.

Pablo Picasso said: "I have discovered photography. Now I can kill myself. I have nothing else to learn."

We can then proceed to kill our gearhead selves, since we will have seen the perfect camera. We will have nothing else to look forward to in cameras. :D :D

[sdommin]

One day, Canon engineers will learn to read English and start browsing these forums for hallowed advice. They will then bring about the perfect camera.

Which makes me wonder: Does Canon (or Nikon, Olympus, etc.) really study what consumers want, or do they design their products to make people want what they design?

(Note to Canon: If you're reading these forums, I'll be happy to beta-test the Pro-2. Let me know - we'll do lunch!!)

[bauerman]

I think that "Voice of the Customer" sometimes takes a very distant backseat to cost or potential margin when designing new cameras. And I don't think that is just with Canon either.

"We'll try to put the features that you want in the next camera - but only if we can do it cheaply while increasing our margins on said new camera....." fictional Canon Rep quote......

[4walls]

I'm no engineer, so I can only go by the results I see, but it seems to me that CCDs will always be noisier than CMOS. (I'm probably totally wrong on some theoretical level, I can only judge the results.) Even comparing D70 (which has a CCD sensor) pics to the 300D at DPReview, the 300D clearly has less noise.

I agree that the 300D has a little less noise than the D70, but if you compare
the 1600 ISO shots, the 300D noise is coloured and the D70 noise is more
monochromatic making it a lot less distracting and much easier to correct
on the computer. I know a bunch of wedding photographers who are using the
D70 because of the advanced features you will not find on a Canon in that price
range.

[twl845]

I think Canon along with all the other camera manufacturers should take a break and let the present models soak awhile, thus giving the customers a chance to learn their cameras. Then we can give them better feed back and they can take their time and make a better camera instead of just firing new models out every 6 months just to get our bucks.

[dbump]

Which makes me wonder: Does Canon (or Nikon, Olympus, etc.) really study what consumers want, or do they design their products to make people want what they design?

Very interesting question! If the latter is succesful, there's no need to spend money to find out what consumers want, and then spend more trying to build that. However, with the boom in the market, and more manufacturers entering the market, I'd think someone would take the chance on a hybrid design, just to differentiate themself from the crowd.

I'd guess either demand is still so high that there isn't enough pressure on manufacturers, or there are some significant problems with implementing our suggestions. It'd be nice to see a moderated question and answer session on this forum with some engineers in the field!

[xboxhaxorz]

you all make great wishes and points too

[4walls]

Two words for Canon engineers re: new 'G' series camera"

LAG TIME

[chris clements]

IMHO the Pro 1 will be the first and last of its line. And this owner won't be mourning its passing.

Even if Sony can get a revised 8m chip to perform, the bridge cameras using it will be squeezed between ever-cheaper DSLR's and higher-specified G-type compacts. So far, only Minolta have launched a second-gen bridge - I doubt if any of their rivals (including Canon) will follow.

Why pay (almost) the price of a DSLR to get a camera that can't focus or frame subjects moving at walking pace, and which produces a useable image barely superior (and arguably inferior) to that from 4~5m compacts costing half the price?