Need advice on lens for macro keen teen.

[Hazey]

:) My fourteen year old daughter is photography mad...specifically, she loves 'up close and personal' She photographs bugs, flowers, textures, dew on grass...anything she can find.
We bought her a Canon Ixus 70 p&S for Christmas and she has taken a couple of thousand shots since then. She has literally come to the end of it's capabilities and is wanting to go further than the P&S can take her.
I have a 400d and she is keen to buy a macro lens to go on that (with her own hard earned money). But I can't decide which she should get. We have an 85f/1.8 and a zoom 18-250.
I don't understand the ratios...eg 1:1 to know what we should look at but are thinking maybe the 100 f2.8? Any recommendations? Could someone explain the ratios or point me to a thread that explains them? eg lifesize etc

[John_B]

Hazey,
1:1 is true life size, ex. a bug that is 6mm long will show up on the sensor as 6mm long with a 1:1 macro lens.

The Canon 100mm f/2.8 is probably one of the best macro lens out there. It is also by a large margin the most used macro lens according to the -=TOP TEN=- macro lens poll <--- click to see (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=160960) however as you can see there are many options. Does your daughter seem happy with hand holding the camera with your 85mm lens? ??? If so then get the 100mm f/2.8 macro lens, if not maybe the EF-s 60mm f/2.8 macro lens would be better.

[zacker]

I have the 100MM canon macro wich is a great lens .... like $400.00 then i have the sigma 50MM macro that I highly reccomend, its sharp, small and relitivly cheap... unde $300.00!

[eyusuf]

sigma 105mm and 150mm are also excellent lenses. it depends what she is after. for moving objects, like bugs, butterflies, etc, you need longer working distance and need longer focal length. for flowers, etc, i would think the canon 50mm or 60mm macro should be sufficient. also get a decent tripod.

[Double Negative]

Cheap? Get a set of close-up filters for the 85mm (58mm, IIRC). Next up, consider a set of Kenko tubes, which will work with most any lens. If you want a dedicated lens, consider either the EF-S 60mm or EF 100mm f/2.8 - both great lenses and for not much money.

Down the road, a tripod, remote release and a 420/580EX flash w/Off-Camera Shoe Cord will go a long way.

[Hazey]

Thanks for the suggestions. I have been having a look through the macro section but feel like I'm walking around in the dark....macro is not MY thiing. Kenko tubes...I have heard of these but not really sure what they are or what they do.
I have been assuming that a 'dedicated macro' lens is just that, but I see that the 100mm f/2.8 serves just as well as a portrait lens? It must have something to do with how close the lens will focus, yes? I also have a 50mmf/1.4 on it's way to me .
My daughter way prefers the weight and flexibility of her Ixus as she is of slight build, but she realises that if she wants to take her photography further then she needs to use the dslr.
Something I have noted is that one fellow in particular (can't recall his name) on this forum is getting great macro results from his S3 IS, which is the camera I moved on from, but I still have it. My daughter has been having a play on that with the super macro function but not having great sucess at this stage.
Double neg......would the close up filters enable my 85mm to focus closer then? It certainly is a great zoom. The remote release is not far off for me too so we can share that.
With the ratios.... what ratio are the ones where the whole bugs eye is large and clear and fils the screen? I think that's how close she wants to get. I will post a pic that she has taken with her Ixus....to show that she wants to get closer than this.
BTW that little camera has been the best P&S ever..takes fantastic photos!

[DreDaze]

kenko tubes on your 50mm should work well to give you good magnification...the only thing is she'll need to manual focus(not sure if that is necessary for the 100mm as well)...but it seems like most macro photogs manual focus anyways...the tubes provide space between the sensor and the lens...i just got mine the other day and can post some shots of what they do for the 50mm 1.8

[nicksan]

Get a set of kenko tubes for your 85 1.8. Works great.
Kenko Tubes allow you to get closer to your subject. You lose AF but then again you wouldn't want to MF for macro anyways.

The 50 will probably work as well, but keep in mind you want to keep SOME distance from the subject. I tried this combo on the 35L and I was an inch or 2 away from the subject...not too good!

Here's a couple of shots to show you what this combo can do. (Used the 580EX MKII flash with diffuser, lens was stopped down to f/11)

http://nicksan.zenfolio.com/img/v1/p866448969-4.jpg

http://nicksan.zenfolio.com/img/v1/p1057995132-5.jpg


http://nicksan.zenfolio.com/img/v1/p831982176-4.jpg

[Double Negative]

The close-up filters will allow you to focus closer, yet. The downside is a) they're limited to a particular thread size without resorting to step-up/down rings and b) they add glass in front of your lens, typically uncoated, which may result in lower IQ.

Kenko tubes work on pretty much any lens (some lenses are better suited than others) and do not add glass to the equation, preserving IQ. The Kenko set has three different length tubes; you can use one, two or all three. You do NOT need to manually focus using them, but you might want to (at least, I've never had to, but I use a 1D2N).

That 50mm f/1.4 would make a fine macro lens with a set of tubes, as would the 85mm f/1.8. The zooms would also work, but I'd suggest sticking with the primes.

[nicksan]

Hey DN,

So you can AF macro shots with the Kenko Tubes?
I have to go home and check again...I was in such a mad rush to put together something workable for the Botanic Garden that I didn't even bother. I MF'ed when I had the 100 f2.8 Macro anyways so nothing I wasn't used to.


The close-up filters will allow you to focus closer, yet. The downside is a) they're limited to a particular thread size without resorting to step-up/down rings and b) they add glass in front of your lens, typically uncoated, which may result in lower IQ.

Kenko tubes work on pretty much any lens (some lenses are better suited than others) and do not add glass to the equation, preserving IQ. The Kenko set has three different length tubes; you can use one, two or all three. You do NOT need to manually focus using them, but you might want to (at least, I've never had to, but I use a 1D2N).

That 50mm f/1.4 would make a fine macro lens with a set of tubes, as would the 85mm f/1.8. The zooms would also work, but I'd suggest sticking with the primes.

[Hazey]

Dredaze...if you don't mind taking the time to post some photos, I would really appreciate it. Excuse my ignorance but why may she need to manual focus withe the 50 but not the 100mm?

[nicksan]

I am pretty positive that to get 1:1 on the 100, MF is the way to go...I may be mistaken. I ALWAYS used MF on the 100.

Dredaze...if you don't mind taking the time to post some photos, I would really appreciate it. Excuse my ignorance but why may she need to manual focus withe the 50 but not the 100mm?

[Double Negative]

I use AF all the time with the tubes, on every lens I've tried so far (35L, 85L, 70-200mm, maybe others). If you have a slow lens to start with, use more tubes than not and have a Dxxx series body you might lose AF, I'm not sure - all I can say for sure is I've never *had* to MF...

As for WHY you'd want to MF, the DoF in macro is so slim... You'll want to be absolutely sure that what YOU want in focus, is in fact, in focus. AF is nice, but MF truly is better in this case.

Using a 35mm lens with tubes probably isn't a good idea; you'll get much higher magnification than say, a 50mm - but your working distance will be ridiculously short. I would say that 50mm is a good minimum focal length to start with.

[John_B]

With the ratios.... what ratio are the ones where the whole bugs eye is large and clear and fils the screen?
Hazey,
To get that magnification (unless its a very very very large bug) you need more then 1:1 macro ex. 5:1 macro might be able to make the eye fill the screen.
You can also via software crop out the bugs eye to make appear to take up the whole photo, but this reduces print quality.


nicksan,
To get 1:1 the 100mm f/2.8 macro lens has to be set on its closest focus point, any movement of the lens from that focus position gives less macro mag...

[nicksan]

That's what I remember doing.

I set the lens up that way then move in on the subject until the subject is in focus then shoot. Always used MF for macro shots for more preciseness.


Hazey,
nicksan,
To get 1:1 the 100mm f/2.8 macro lens has to be set on its closest focus point, any movement of the lens from that focus position gives less macro mag...

[DreDaze]

alright so i did these just now...so the quality/subject probably isn't the best...but it gives you an idea of the possibilities...and i stand corrected...i guess you don't have to manual focus...as double negative has used AF...i just got these the other day...these are actually probably the 20th shots i've taken with them...but i'm super excited to use em soon

[DreDaze]

sorry i don't know how to do more than one picture per post....last one actually looks a little soft...but shows what you can get...and as said in other posts...the DOF is extremely shallow...the background on the last one is different cause i had to set up the tripod...as other shots weren't blurred

[Double Negative]

To give you an idea of what tubes on an 85mm can do (and don't ask me which tubes were used on these shots, I don't remember, LOL)... Click for larger+info:

http://litpixel.com/ee/images/thumb/_1D_0030.jpg (http://litpixel.com/ee/photo.php?photo=1344&exhibition=12&ee_lang=eng&u=1095,5) http://litpixel.com/ee/images/thumb/_1D_0040.jpg (http://litpixel.com/ee/photo.php?photo=1343&exhibition=12&ee_lang=eng&u=1095,4) http://litpixel.com/ee/images/thumb/_1D_0042.jpg (http://litpixel.com/ee/photo.php?photo=1342&exhibition=12&ee_lang=eng&u=1095,3) http://litpixel.com/ee/images/thumb/_1D_0050.jpg (http://litpixel.com/ee/photo.php?photo=1341&exhibition=12&ee_lang=eng&u=1095,2)

[Hazey]

Here are some pics from her Ixus...but she wants to get closer and clearer than this. Any closer and her Ixus can't maintain focus...still it's pretty good for a P&S.
I have googled and read up on Kenko tubes and I think they are the way to go at this stage. If she is still into it all in another 12 months she can look at another lens. At least the kenko's won't empty her bank account!
Many thanks to you all for the advice and thanks for posting the photos Nicsan...great!

[Hazey]

Double neg....those are great clear shots....thanks for posting the samples. I think the tubes will do nicely for now but expect there will be a learning curves as well.
Dredaze, I appreciate you taking the time to take and post those samples...it doesn't matter that the focus is a bit soft on some, it gives me a really clear idea of the magnification we can expect from the tubes and was a very worthwhile demonstration for me so thankyou.
You've all been a great help...thank you. POTN'ers.:D